Marcus Maye

[dbatesman]

Just now, HessStation said:

ok, but if we can stay on the particular argument he can't cover, if we could look at Malik Hooker who went half a round ahead of Maye.

Teams were 61 for 78 when throwing against him 1 on 1. 78% completion rate.  That was the worst completion rate of anyone targeted over 20 times in the NCAA. 

And Hooker never left the back half of the field in the one season he played. 

Mind you Hooker also missed 38% of tackle attempts, had a 22.7 PFI rating  in the one season he played.

Had surgeries in January to repair a torn labrum and sports hernia on both sides. 

 

 

Maye lined up all over the backfield including in man and nickel, In his 3 years as a starter in the SEC I've seen reports him giving up 4 yr1, 4 yr2 and 1 TD last year. 

That's fine. I don't like Malik Hooker either.

[dbatesman]

Just now, slats said:

When I'm trying to be optimistic, I take solace in the concept that perhaps Maye just happened to be the BAP on their board at the time of the pick. 

I think that's exactly what happened. It doesn't give me much solace because I don't trust their board.

[HessStation]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

That's fine. I don't like Malik Hooker either.

Fair to ask who liked that was available in the 2nd round?

[dbatesman]

Just now, HessStation said:

Fair to ask who liked that was available in the 2nd round?

Jordan Willis

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Jordan Willis

Right?

I don't even necessarily think these are bad players so much as this franchise is legitimately terrible.

[dbatesman]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Right?

I don't even necessarily think these are bad players so much as this franchise is legitimately terrible.

Yeah. I think Adams will be a good player, with the ceiling to be great, and Maye seems like he'll be a contributor. Yet again, we hit big at all the spots that don't matter and whiff horribly at the spots that do.

[varjet]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Jordan Willis

Jordan Willis is a 4-3 DE  The Jets are overinvested in 3-4 DEs.

The Florida CBs looked interesting, but I presume the Jets graded Maye higher.  I also note that the Jets wanted to replace basically all of their safeties in 2017, whereas they have Claiborne, Williams, Burris, Roberts and Skrine, many of whom are getting paid real guaranteed money, in 2017.  I don't think you can say that that had nothing to do with picking Maye.

Macc confirmed indirectly that they were not using a draft pick on Dalvin Cook.  Probably Tabor too.

 

[HessStation]

21 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Jordan Willis

 

13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Yeah. I think Adams will be a good player, with the ceiling to be great, and Maye seems like he'll be a contributor. Yet again, we hit big at all the spots that don't matter and whiff horribly at the spots that do.

That's fair. Eventually you need that position as a strength when you do get a QB though

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

That's fair. Eventually you need that position as a strength when you do get a QB though

I don't hate Adams as a player (or Maye, for that matter). But there's a few positions that really, really matter in the league right now, and we don't seem to be making progress at any of them.

[ZachEY]

Just now, dbatesman said:

I don't hate Adams as a player (or Maye, for that matter). But there's a few positions that really, really matter in the league right now, and we don't seem to be making progress at any of them.

This is what I don't get... I actually think player-wise, we probably had a good draft.  However, philosophy-wise, awful.

Lets be optimistic and imagine Adams becomes a top-5 safety... How quickly would you trade a top-5 safety for a top-15 pass rusher or a top-15 QB?

Let's be optimistic and assume we'll have the best safety tandem in the league... What is that worth in comparison to upgrading these other positions?

[HessStation]

Just now, dbatesman said:

I don't hate Adams as a player (or Maye, for that matter). But there's a few positions that really, really matter in the league right now, and we don't seem to be making progress at any of them.

Off the cuff I would agree but when you take a closer look at Super Bowl winning teams, on everyone there's pretty much an All-Pro caliber Safety on the roster. 

 

McCourty, Ward, Thomas, Reed, Rolle, Polamalu, Woodson, Sanders, Lynch, Harrison, Butler, Woodson, Lott....

[SenorGato]

26 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Yeah. I think Adams will be a good player, with the ceiling to be great, and Maye seems like he'll be a contributor. Yet again, we hit big at all the spots that don't matter and whiff horribly at the spots that do.

They also seem to ignore what just might work in the draft at those key positions. It's burned them many, many times over just this current decade.

 

[HessStation]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

This is what I don't get... I actually think player-wise, we probably had a good draft.  However, philosophy-wise, awful.

Lets be optimistic and imagine Adams becomes a top-5 safety... How quickly would you trade a top-5 safety for a top-15 pass rusher or a top-15 QB?

Let's be optimistic and assume we'll have the best safety tandem in the league... What is that worth in comparison to upgrading these other positions?

Off the cuff I would agree but when you take a closer look at Super Bowl winning teams, on everyone there's pretty much an All-Pro caliber Safety on the roster. 

 

McCourty, Ward, Thomas, Reed, Rolle, Polamalu, Woodson, Sanders, Lynch, Harrison, Butler, Woodson, Lott....

 

[HessStation]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

They also seem to ignore what just might work in the draft at those key positions. It's burned them many, many times over just this current decade.

 

Off the cuff I would agree but when you take a closer look at Super Bowl winning teams, on everyone there's pretty much an All-Pro caliber Safety on the roster. 

 

McCourty, Ward, Thomas, Reed, Rolle, Polamalu, Woodson, Sanders, Lynch, Harrison, Butler, Woodson, Lott....

 

[SickJetFan]

Just now, HessStation said:

Off the cuff I would agree but when you take a closer look at Super Bowl winning teams, on everyone there's pretty much an All-Pro caliber Safety on the roster. 

 

McCourty, Ward, Thomas, Reed, Rolle, Polamalu, Woodson, Sanders, Lynch, Harrison, Butler, Woodson, Lott....

 

Didnt Seatle draft 3 safeties this year?

[Beerfish]

Can't wait until Hackenburg falls on his ass hard and the weaponzzzzz excuse is trotted out by the same people being happy with ignoring the offense in the draft for over a decade.

[C Mart]

27 minutes ago, varjet said:

Jordan Willis is a 4-3 DE  The Jets are overinvested in 3-4 DEs.

The Florida CBs looked interesting, but I presume the Jets graded Maye higher.  I also note that the Jets wanted to replace basically all of their safeties in 2017, whereas they have Claiborne, Williams, Burris, Roberts and Skrine, many of whom are getting paid real guaranteed money, in 2017.  I don't think you can say that that had nothing to do with picking Maye.

Macc confirmed indirectly that they were not using a draft pick on Dalvin Cook.  Probably Tabor too.

 

And I know this won't matter to many here however the two CBs Clark & Jones, if they develop, could be big contributors in '18

now some will bitch about how that doesn't help in '17 which is funny since many of those are the ones that 1) want to tank '17 2) always want more picks 

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Didnt Seatle draft 3 safeties this year?

No one wound be batting an eye if the jets took two or three safeties this year if they were not early in rounds 1 and 2.  Double dipping or triple dipping is a great idea in a deep draft but picking the 1st two rounds kind of defeats the purpose of taking advantage of a deep draft at the position.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

And I know this won't matter to many here however the two CBs Clark & Jones,if the develop could be big contributors in '18

now some will bitch about how that doesn't help in '17 which is funny since many of those are the ones that 1) want to tank '17 2) always want more picks 

both of those guys are long shots and we are probably looking at 19 not 18 for them.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Beerfish said:

No one wound be batting an eye if the jets took two or three safeties this year if they were not early in rounds 1 and 2.  Double dipping or triple dipping is a great idea in a deep draft but picking the 1st two rounds kind of defeats the purpose of taking advantage of a deep draft at the position.

speak for yourself I like the 2 new safeties

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

This is what I don't get... I actually think player-wise, we probably had a good draft.  However, philosophy-wise, awful.

Lets be optimistic and imagine Adams becomes a top-5 safety... How quickly would you trade a top-5 safety for a top-15 pass rusher or a top-15 QB?

Let's be optimistic and assume we'll have the best safety tandem in the league... What is that worth in comparison to upgrading these other positions?

If the odds were high that Watson or Mahomes would be a top 15 QB, the  Jets would have taken them. Christian Ponder/EJ Manuel/Manziel/Weeden/Gabbert etc are part of a long list of average QB prospects recently taken in the first round that ended up becoming busts because a GM decided it would be a good idea to reach for QB that MAY become a top 15 QB. 

The chances of Adams becoming a pro bowler is far greater than the chances of Watson/Mahomes becoming top 15 NFL Qbs. That is why the Jets took Adams. That is why the Browns took Garret that is why the Niners took Thomas. You don't just take random QBs because they MAY become good NFL players. If you do that every year, you end up with a roster devoid of any talent. The Chiefs and Texans already have a great roster and therefore were able to take a chance on Mahomes/Watson. The Jets are not in a position to pass on A grade players for C grade QBs. 

The Maye pick was a little baffling but I am willing to give Macc the benefit of the doubt as the BPA strategy is generally the smartest way to build a playoff caliber roster. 

[HessStation]

Just now, C Mart said:

And I know this won't matter to many here however the two CBs Clark & Jones,if the develop could be big contributors in '18

now some will bitch about how that doesn't help in '17 which is funny since many of those are the ones that 1) want to tank '17 2) always want more picks 

41 inch vertical is redic.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

And I know this won't matter to many here however the two CBs Clark & Jones, if they develop, could be big contributors in '18

now some will bitch about how that doesn't help in '17 which is funny since many of those are the ones that 1) want to tank '17 2) always want more picks 

I think everyone agrees that if the 6th round picks pan out, that would be great for the team.  Unfortunately, the odds of this happening are pretty low, otherwise they wouldn't be 6th round picks.

[HessStation]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think everyone agrees that if the 6th round picks pan out, that would be great for the team.  Unfortunately, the odds of this happening are pretty low, otherwise they wouldn't be 6th round picks.

But besides the 3 TEs taken in the first where are you going to take one? Maybe Butt is more well rounded but who knows with that injury and Kittle was an intriging guy but nowhere near the size and production at Iowa. Sometimes it's nice to have an earlier projection fall into your lap and good teams at least have a couple of those surprises. You need a couple of those surprises. The way things fell not sure what exactly who you wanted him to take earlier at the skilled pos. The only pink elephant that could really look bad in retrospect is Cook, and as we've already discussed in other threads, the kid is a walking red flag a soft breeze away from disaster. 

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, HessStation said:

If those bastards weren't being so damn smarmy they'd maybe realize they're being quite presumptuous about what those smart things would be. 

You may have a point here.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If the odds were high that Watson or Mahomes would be a top 15 QB, the  Jets would have taken them. Christian Ponder/EJ Manuel/Manziel/Weeden/Gabbert etc are part of a long list of average QB prospects recently taken in the first round that ended up becoming busts because a GM decided it would be a good idea to reach for QB that MAY become a top 15 QB. 

The chances of Adams becoming a pro bowler is far greater than the chances of Watson/Mahomes becoming top 15 NFL Qbs. That is why the Jets took Adams. That is why the Browns took Garret that is why the Niners took Thomas. You don't just take random QBs because they MAY become good NFL players. If you do that every year, you end up with a roster devoid of any talent. The Chiefs and Texans already have a great roster and therefore were able to take a chance on Mahomes/Watson. The Jets are not in a position to pass on A grade players for C grade QBs. 

The Maye pick was a little baffling but I am willing to give Macc the benefit of the doubt as the BPA strategy is generally the smartest way to build a playoff caliber roster. 

I'm on the Suck for Sam (or Rosen) train, so I don't really mind skipping the QB and I'm actually not that down on the Adams pick, I get it was the value pick.  I'd have traded down, even if I couldn't get perfect value, just to add more players to a roster severely depleted of talent.  It's the doubling down on two safeties, both of which aren't known for their coverage skills, that I think is philosophically problematic.  And Best Available is a favorite among people talking about the draft, but just because everyone loves ranked lists, doesn't mean reality works like that.  How much better is Mayes than the guy on your list right after him, and how much worse is he than the guy right after him?  I think grades, or groups, are more realistic.  The point being, I'm willing to bet there was a similarly ranked player available that might have been a better value to this franchise with that pick.  Or, again, they could have traded down there, and added another 2 next year.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

Resorting to calling on Jif's expertise to support your case is a fairly convincing bit of evidence suggesting you've lost the debate

I hate to side against my soul-homey DButt, but this is valid.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

But besides the 3 TEs taken in the first where are you going to take one? Maybe Butt is more well rounded but who knows with that injury and Kittle was an intriging guy but nowhere near the size and production at Iowa. Sometimes it's nice to have an earlier projection fall into your lap and good teams at least have a couple of those surprises. You need a couple of those surprises. The way things fell not sure what exactly who you wanted him to take earlier at the skilled pos. The only pink elephant that could really look bad in retrospect is Cook, and as we've already discussed in other threads, the kid is a walking red flag a soft breeze away from disaster. 

I was responding to the CBs.  Though, I'd have probably traded back and possibly taken one of those TEs, if I could make it happen.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

I'm on the Suck for Sam (or Rosen) train, so I don't really mind skipping the QB and I'm actually not that down on the Adams pick, I get it was the value pick.  I'd have traded down, even if I couldn't get perfect value, just to add more players to a roster severely depleted of talent.  It's the doubling down on two safeties, both of which aren't known for their coverage skills, that I think is philosophically problematic.  And Best Available is a favorite among people talking about the draft, but just because everyone loves ranked lists, doesn't mean reality works like that.  How much better is Mayes than the guy on your list right after him, and how much worse is he than the guy right after him?  I think grades, or groups, are more realistic.  The point being, I'm willing to bet there was a similarly ranked player available that might have been a better value to this franchise with that pick.  Or, again, they could have traded down there, and added another 2 next year.

Something to keep an eye on is how good Melifonwu turns out. Even if we accept that they drafted a safety in round two, the next question is whether or not they drafted the right one.

[C Mart]

13 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think everyone agrees that if the 6th round picks pan out, that would be great for the team.  Unfortunately, the odds of this happening are pretty low, otherwise they wouldn't be 6th round picks.

They were late picks for reasons other than their talent. Clark off ACL. Jones being converted from WR to CB. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, C Mart said:

They were late picks for reasons other than their talent. Clark off ACL. Jones being converted from WR to CB. 

Both of which are sure-fire to work out.......  You're essentially saying, "if our whole draft pans out, this will be great" and everyone agrees.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Something to keep an eye on is how good Melifonwu turns out. Even if we accept that they drafted a safety in round two, the next question is whether or not they drafted the right one.

That's a fair question in round one, also, no?

[HessStation]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I was responding to the CBs.  Though, I'd have probably traded back and possibly taken one of those TEs, if I could make it happen.

I would have done the exact same thing fwiw. I guess I'm just not as whiney or crotchety as you? 

[C Mart]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Both of which are sure-fire to work out.......  You're essentially saying, "if our whole draft pans out, this will be great" and everyone agrees.

Didn't say that but what the hell go with it. 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

I would have done the exact same thing fwiw. I guess I'm just not as whiney or crotchety as you?

I guess I'm tired of seeing our team driving into the same brick wall over and over again.