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So , when do we trade Sheldon for a draft pick ?


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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I can hardly contain how surprised I am that we're going to keep all 3 of these guys for a 3rd straight season.

For some unknown reason I think the FO loves Sheldon and over values him - I just don't think they let him go "cheap" - I think they keep him next year and deal w the FA coming up

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2 minutes ago, peebag said:

For some unknown reason I think the FO loves Sheldon and over values him - I just don't think they let him go "cheap" - I think they keep him next year and deal w the FA coming up

What "cheap"? 

He's $8m and is an unnecessary player on a team that already has both Mo and Leo. There's no place for him to fit, along side those two, except on obvious running downs when it's fine to line up four 300-330 pounders on the DL.

Barring a post-draft trade, the only way we get something for him is a compensatory mid-round pick in 2019. That's if we stay away from other teams' UFAs next offseason. 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What "cheap"? 

He's $8m and is an unnecessary player on a team that already has both Mo and Leo. There's no place for him to fit, along side those two, except on obvious running downs when it's fine to line up four 300-330 pounders on the DL.

Barring a post-draft trade, the only way we get something for him is a compensatory mid-round pick in 2019. That's if we stay away from other teams' UFAs next offseason. 

rather have him than trade him for anything less than a 3rd, let him leave in free agency get your 3rd round comp pick and trade down to the 5th round with it

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3 minutes ago, Sully28 said:

rather have him than trade him for anything less than a 3rd, let him leave in free agency get your 3rd round comp pick and trade down to the 5th round with it

That makes no sense. He is an extra player here, so this poor value is an emotional stance not a rational one.

If we had another 4th rounder this year, with all the holes we still have, you'd really want us to trade it away for Sheldon Richardson with 1 year remaining at $8m, and too much of a suspension risk to want to give big money to long term?

Of course not. Nobody would. Not even teams without Mo and Leo already on their rosters.

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There are benefits to Sheldon staying.

  1. He's better than Wilk and tries a hell of a lot more.
  2. While it's likely Wilk is here long term and Sheldon isn't, that's not guaranteed.  If Wilk doesn't do much to earn his 18 MILLION (nuts) this year, he can be cut next year for an 8mil cap hit.  If Sheldon out plays him, re-sign Sheldon and cut Wilk.
  3. Or maybe it'll help motivate Wilk to actually be good again.
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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That makes no sense. He is an extra player here, so this poor value is an emotional stance not a rational one.

If we had another 4th rounder this year, with all the holes we still have, you'd really want us to trade it away for Sheldon Richardson with 1 year remaining at $8m, and too much of a suspension risk to want to give big money to long term?

Of course not. Nobody would. Not even teams without Mo and Leo already on their rosters.

What's the difference between a 4th rounder this year and a 3rd round comp next year? You get better pick value, sure he eats up 8 million in cap space but is there a difference making you're looking to sign with that 8 million that is still available? The way you're saying is impatient, if you couldn't get a comp pick I'd be on board too, but you inevitably will and it'll probably be better than what anyone gives you

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That makes no sense. He is an extra player here, so this poor value is an emotional stance not a rational one.

If we had another 4th rounder this year, with all the holes we still have, you'd really want us to trade it away for Sheldon Richardson with 1 year remaining at $8m, and too much of a suspension risk to want to give big money to long term?

Of course not. Nobody would. Not even teams without Mo and Leo already on their rosters.

What's the difference between a 4th rounder this year and a 3rd round comp next year? You get better pick value, sure he eats up 8 million in cap space but is there a difference making you're looking to sign with that 8 million that is still available? The way you're saying is impatient, if you couldn't get a comp pick I'd be on board too, but you inevitably will and it'll probably be better than what anyone gives you

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27 minutes ago, Sully28 said:

What's the difference between a 4th rounder this year and a 3rd round comp next year? You get better pick value, sure he eats up 8 million in cap space but is there a difference making you're looking to sign with that 8 million that is still available? The way you're saying is impatient, if you couldn't get a comp pick I'd be on board too, but you inevitably will and it'll probably be better than what anyone gives you

Your numbers are simply off. There is no way we can get a 3rd round comp for him next year.

What you're dreaming of, and won't see, is a 3rd round comp in 2019. That is the trade equivalent of a super-late 5th rounder this year. Even that's only if he somehow gets like a $15m/year contract from someone else, and we simultaneously also stay away from other teams' UFAs at the same time, a year from now. 

Then on top of that, we're going to pay him $8.1m for the season, and his presence will then necessarily take playing time away from someone else in this obvious rebuilding year.

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41 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

There are benefits to Sheldon staying.

  1. He's better than Wilk and tries a hell of a lot more.
  2. While it's likely Wilk is here long term and Sheldon isn't, that's not guaranteed.  If Wilk doesn't do much to earn his 18 MILLION (nuts) this year, he can be cut next year for an 8mil cap hit.  If Sheldon out plays him, re-sign Sheldon and cut Wilk.
  3. Or maybe it'll help motivate Wilk to actually be good again.

Disagree. Mo has outplayed and outproduced Sheldon every year, including last year coming off a major leg injury.

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3 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

Disagree. Mo has outplayed and outproduced Sheldon every year, including last year coming off a major leg injury.

That's because Sheldon was suspended and then spent the rest of the season rotating between LB, Safety and Corner.

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1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

That's because Sheldon was suspended and then spent the rest of the season rotating between LB, Safety and Corner.

Lol maybe. Personally I feel Wilk is better, and will have the better career when it's all said and done.

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1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

Lol maybe. Personally I feel Wilk is better, and will have the better career when it's all said and done.

Hope you're right.  18mil per season is a lot of dough.

Maybe he wasn't being lazy past year and was still recovering from an injury.  We'll see.

Sheldon may have been a retard off the field but the guy goes balls out on the field.  Gotta respect that.

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I'm expecting a bounce back year from Mo, but it certainly seemed like he took long stretches off last year. Whether because of the injury, or general "don't care" attitude in a lost year is still to be seen.

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1 hour ago, peebag said:

For some unknown reason I think the FO loves Sheldon and over values him - I just don't think they let him go "cheap" - I think they keep him next year and deal w the FA coming up

No, they've been trying to trade him and can't get sh*t.  Like someone said a few months ago, he's worth about an annual membership at the YMCA right now.

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I would not mind keeping him even for a year EXCEPT we have a bone headed soft coach who has no clue how to use 3 good lineman that play a similar spot and his fake discipline.  Shel wants to get paid so by game 4 when bowles is not letting him get sacks and such he will start becoming a problem.

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Here's a follow up... At this point it's clear Mac isn't getting a high pick for him, ever.

Would you be satisfied with like a 4th or 5th next year if he's traded during the season? It would suck, but maybe getting SOMETHING is better than holding him.

 

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1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

There are benefits to Sheldon staying.

  1. He's better than Wilk and tries a hell of a lot more.
  2. While it's likely Wilk is here long term and Sheldon isn't, that's not guaranteed.  If Wilk doesn't do much to earn his 18 MILLION (nuts) this year, he can be cut next year for an 8mil cap hit.  If Sheldon out plays him, re-sign Sheldon and cut Wilk.
  3. Or maybe it'll help motivate Wilk to actually be good again.

He can also give driving lessons to the rookies .

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What "cheap"? 

He's $8m and is an unnecessary player on a team that already has both Mo and Leo. There's no place for him to fit, along side those two, except on obvious running downs when it's fine to line up four 300-330 pounders on the DL.

Barring a post-draft trade, the only way we get something for him is a compensatory mid-round pick in 2019. That's if we stay away from other teams' UFAs next offseason. 

He's only an 'extra player' as you say based on how Bowles utilized him last year.  I'd wager that if he's been given the role last year afforded Wilkerson, who massively underperformed, he would have done just fine.

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34 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

He's only an 'extra player' as you say based on how Bowles utilized him last year.  I'd wager that if he's been given the role last year afforded Wilkerson, who massively underperformed, he would have done just fine.

How should he have been used?

I'm hardly one to come to the rescue of one Todd Bowles, whom I believe to be in as over his head as his GM counterpart. But really, is the way to utilize him to line up the slowest, heaviest/fattest 4-man DL in NFL history? Or is one of these three a pure 3-4 nose tackle?

I'm not trying to be a dick about it (thought admittedly it often comes out that way), but while they're all individually very talented, there is no good scheme for 3 such players simultaneously, except during obvious running downs.

JMO.

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

How should he have been used?

I'm hardly one to come to the rescue of one Todd Bowles, whom I believe to be in as over his head as his GM counterpart. But really, is the way to utilize him to line up the slowest, heaviest/fattest 4-man DL in NFL history? Or is one of these three a pure 3-4 nose tackle?

I'm not trying to be a dick about it (thought admittedly it often comes out that way), but there is no good scheme for 3 such players except during obvious running downs.

JMO.

He shoulda played a down lineman full time, while Wilkerson's ass was on the pine if necessary (recovering or whatever)...but can't do that to an $18 mill/yr guy easily.

Playing Sheldon at LB, or whatever, dropping in coverage, is a travesty even though he has the wheels to make the coaches try.. but he's a better DLman than whatever it was Bowles was having him play last year.

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Dear Woody-

You know if you were offered a second round pick for Sheldon last Fall.  

If you were and Macc turned it down, please either fire Macc or hire him a boss.  Scot McCoughlan is available.   

Thank you.  

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7 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

He shoulda played a down lineman full time, while Wilkerson's ass was on the pine if necessary (recovering or whatever)...but can't do that to an $18 mill/yr guy easily.

Playing Sheldon at LB, or whatever, dropping in coverage, is a travesty even though he has the wheels to make the coaches try.. but he's a better DLman than whatever it was Bowles was having him play last year.

Obviously I meant what scheme is there where all three are utilized simultaneously, not which one do you bench (since that doesn't accomplish that goal)? 

The likely reason Bowles had Richardson move around is, among the three, he's the most capable of doing so. It's not a good fit, but putting either of Leo or Mo in that role would have been twice as bad.

The Jets didn't have enough decent personnel to bench any of the few actually-talented ones.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Obviously I meant what scheme is there where all three are utilized simultaneously, not which one do you bench (since that doesn't accomplish that goal)? 

The likely reason Bowles had Richardson move around is, among the three, he's the most capable of doing so. It's not a good fit, but putting either of Leo or Mo in that role would have been twice as bad.

I agree; which is probably part of the reason Sheldon is a 'malcontent'...he thrives chasing people behind the LOS, not covering slot receivers/RB's in the flat..which ultimately makes him look worse from a FA standpoint.

In fact, I think he's a better 3-4 DT/DE than MoWilk (personal issues not withstanding) and with Mo continually disappointing last season Sheldon should have taken his spot IMO. Part of Sheldon's 'NYJ' issues is the timing of his selection relative to Mo's...Mo's deal was up first and then the personal issues didn't help so he know's his future here is limited.

He ain't a brain surgeon, he's just a high motor guy who needs the right environment (I watched him closely while he was here at Mizzou) and a defined role and he'll run through any wall you ask him to.  Put him on NEP or PITT and he'd be a terror. I wish we hadn't resigned MoWilk honestly.

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