Passing on a QB in 2017

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, thadude said:

Outside of Darnold none of the QB prospects coming out in 2018 are that great.  Rosen is coming off an injury and supposedly a headcase, Lamar Jackson could be just a glorified Vick, one of the other "top 10 draft pick qb's" currently plays in an air raid offense that has only produced bust NFL quarterbacks.

 

It's either the Jets go 0-16 and get Darnold (which is really looking possible) or bust.

This is the second time this has been said in the last week. It isn't true.

Lamar is on zero watch lists.  He isn't an NFL QB. 

Mason Rudolph, Josh Allen, Browning (if he continues to progress), and THEN Falk, are the guys to look out for after Rosen and Darnold. 

I already love next year's class.  I think they're gonna be what 2012 should have been in terms of hype and results.  I'm gonna watch me a ton of Jacob Eason and get a head start on the next group.

[ljr]

Any reporter complementing how Chicago handled this draft is a f*cking ret*rd !!!

[Lil Woody]

Just now, Mogglez said:

This is the second time this has been said in the last week. It isn't true.

Lamar is on zero watch lists.  He isn't an NFL QB. 

Mason Rudolph, Josh Allen, Browning (if he continues to progress), and THEN Falk, are the guys to look out for. 

I more or less agree. But I'm not willing to write of Lamar.  Kid has elite athleticism for the position, and there will be an opportunity for him in the NFL as a QB. His accuracy and decision making can be called into question, but his ability is elite. He's made a lot of progress as a passer just last year.  We have to see how he does this season. If he improves his mechanics, accuracy and shows he can handle more complex playcalls and get past his 1st read before running....It's definitely possible.

[King P]

10 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I more or less agree. But I'm not willing to write of Lamar.  Kid has elite athleticism for the position, and there will be an opportunity for him in the NFL as a QB. His accuracy and decision making can be called into question, but his ability is elite. He's made a lot of progress as a passer just last year.  We have to see how he does this season. If he improves his mechanics, accuracy and shows he can handle more complex playcalls and get past his 1st read before running....It's definitely possible.

I'm not writing him off either, this whole "he's not a QB" is nonsense. He showed glimpses of real potential, but he needs to continue to improve. Especially when it comes to accuracy.

But the potential is there

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I more or less agree. But I'm not willing to write of Lamar.  Kid has elite athleticism for the position, and there will be an opportunity for him in the NFL as a QB. His accuracy and decision making can be called into question, but his ability is elite. He's made a lot of progress as a passer just last year.  We have to see how he does this season. If he improves his mechanics, accuracy and shows he can handle more complex playcalls and get past his 1st read before running....It's definitely possible.

Which is basically irrelevant to successful QB play if you cant accurately throw the ball.

[HessStation]

a. You don't know what you have yet in your 2nd round investment from 2016

b. The 2017 class sucked

c. The 2018 class is suppose one of the better classes in recent years

d. The team is going to suck anyway

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

a. You don't know what you have yet in your 2nd round investment from 2016

b. The 2017 class sucked

c. The 2018 class is suppose one of the better classes in recent years

d. The team is going to suck anyway

e. YOLO

[HessStation]

Just now, T0mShane said:

e. YOLO

d. for EAd

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

The other issue, as Beerfish pointed out, is that if this draft does indeed turn out to be a QB bonanza (which I'm skeptical about), we're already behind the eight ball by not trading down and picking up a future first, like the Bills did. Just another hidden cost of drafting a safety at #6 overall.

It was a very coherent plan where they gave an ILB $11 mil per and went 0-16.

[Charlie Brown]

Articles like this are foolish if Hack is the real deal and prescient if Hack sucks.  The truth is the Jets brass obviously believes that Hack is better than the guys who they could have drafted because they didn't take them.

By not drafting a potential competitor for Hack more than Petty, Mac has in a sense doubled down on last year's draft and we will just have to wait and see if he got it right or not.

[ljr]

41 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Articles like this are foolish if Hack is the real deal and prescient if Hack sucks.  The truth is the Jets brass obviously believes that Hack is better than the guys who they could have drafted because they didn't take them.

By not drafting a potential competitor for Hack more than Petty, Mac has in a sense doubled down on last year's draft and we will just have to wait and see if he got it right or not.

The author is still foolish if Hack sucks based on his non NYJ comments 

i see the double down as Hack having this season to show anything good + likely 2018 drafting spot for projected strong 2018 QB draft talent if Hack just shows bad    >   2017 supposedly weak QB draft talent       ... JMO

 

if Mac & Bowles don't give Hack ... Or a much smaller possibility Petty ... a long leash this year then my opinion is blown to shreds... Along with my liver !

[Powpow]

6 hours ago, Pcola said:

The problem in the NFL is it's takes a few years to develop a QB.  So teams like the NYJ, SF, Cle etc, is that none of them have any QBs that can hold the fort for a couple of seasons while guys like Mahones, Watson, Webb, or even Peterman and develop.  

If the Jets or any of this other teams I mentioned draft these guys, there's zero patience because there's no other answer currently on their team.  In fact, Watson is probably getting thrown to the wolves this season.

So Prescott was lousy last year? Seems he played at a very high level. Everyone is different. Hack probably needs 3-4 years before he sees the light of day. You can't throw a guy like Hack to be he wolves ?. He's been through too much turmoil. Watson may suck but may be more resilient. Regardless, you just don't know until you see what you got. 

[Larz]

13 hours ago, dbatesman said:

The other issue, as Beerfish pointed out, is that if this draft does indeed turn out to be a QB bonanza (which I'm skeptical about), we're already behind the eight ball by not trading down and picking up a future first, like the Bills did. Just another hidden cost of drafting a safety at #6 overall.

Leading up to the draft it looked like it was going to be a S, TE, or corner. Turns out the corner and TE had injury issues as did one the safeties.

Anyone not deficated to an ignorant narrative can see there was one player they were going to stick and pick, and he fell to them. 

Im happy they didn't take a QB or corner just for positional value.

Thats how you wind up with bryan thomas over ed reed.

Please let us know in very specific details what you would have done.

 

[Smashmouth]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Even if you excuse the Jets for passing on a QB this year, it's still inexcusable to do little to pad the nest for the QB they'll draft in 2018. Next year's roster at the skill positions will be even bleaker than this year's because you're definitely losing Decker and could potentially lose Enunwa as an RFA. Even if you're getting Darnold, he could be walking into a huddle with no OLT, no viable C, no WR1, and Bilal Powell. We'll be optimistic and say that Stewart and/or Enunwa develop into a #2 WR, but the cupboard is bare otherwise. 

Good points but there's still a draft next year and free agency. If the Jets do Pick a Darnold or a Rosen the offensive skill positions really only need one or two player's to make it  explosive and that's a dynamic RB and a Big possession WR assuming the Jets Sign Enunwa they will have Jail Bird Robbie as our Speed WR and a good solid back up in Powell at the RB position (assuming we do actually pick a RB). Plus we still have Peake and the 2 rookies from this years draft who might emerge as well  That's not bad for the first year of a rebuild depending on what we add at those positions I mentioned. I can easily see the Jets focusing on Offense OL and the LB position on defense next year.

Would have been nice to build the OL first but this draft, as most said, was very weak at that position. IMHO FA will be a big factor next year not by the talent available but by who we pick and making those picks count.

[Villain The Foe]

14 hours ago, varjet said:

I can come up with some good rebuttals to the points made in this article, but he makes some good points.

I predict there is a significant reinvestment in QB in 2018.  I think the sweet spots are top of 1st round, 4th round and below, and FA who is proven to be able to play.***

You're "predicting" that ? Lol

[Smashmouth]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You're "predicting" that ? Lol

meh every one of us should be hoping we DON'T have to take a QB in next years draft

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

meh every one of us should be hoping we DON'T have to take a QB in next years draft

And yet we're all expecting it. 

Not being able to see the field last year on one hand, let me know that this was indeed a RS year, but on the other hand his last time on the field was at Penn State and two preseason games...none of which he looked good in

[AFJF]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Even if you excuse the Jets for passing on a QB this year, it's still inexcusable to do little to pad the nest for the QB they'll draft in 2018. Next year's roster at the skill positions will be even bleaker than this year's because you're definitely losing Decker and could potentially lose Enunwa as an RFA. Even if you're getting Darnold, he could be walking into a huddle with no OLT, no viable C, no WR1, and Bilal Powell. We'll be optimistic and say that Stewart and/or Enunwa develop into a #2 WR, but the cupboard is bare otherwise. 

It's not like they didn't just draft Stewart, Hansen and Leggett so they can get a year under their belts for the new guy.  I expect Enunwa to get extended and between Peake and Robby...that's several vertical threats to work with.

If they're looking abysmal (which I doubt they will), this team will likely have over $70 million in cap room to add a player or two on offense who can help.

On the O-line, Beachum is here for at least two years and this is a big year for him.  Got rave reviews two years ago and looked terrible coming back from injury.  A year removed from the injury, now we get to see the real Beachum.  Johnson is serviceable but can likely be upgraded, and McGuire will get a shot to be a return man with a chance to be Powell's replacement next season.

Lots of question marks?  Of course.

Plenty of potential play-makers to give a new QB something to work with?  Yup.

[Tinstar]

With Alex Smith and Mahomes in Kansas City, I wonder if the Jets would have any interest in Tyler Bray > I have always liked that kid's arm talent and he's been practicing in Andy Reid's WCO for the better part of 3 years now. I would think that he would be an upgrade on at least Petty and probably even my boy Hack .

[T0mShane]

17 minutes ago, AFJF said:

It's not like they didn't just draft Stewart, Hansen and Leggett so they can get a year under their belts for the new guy.  I expect Enunwa to get extended and between Peake and Robby...that's several vertical threats to work with.

If they're looking abysmal (which I doubt they will), this team will likely have over $70 million in cap room to add a player or two on offense who can help.

On the O-line, Beachum is here for at least two years and this is a big year for him.  Got rave reviews two years ago and looked terrible coming back from injury.  A year removed from the injury, now we get to see the real Beachum.  Johnson is serviceable but can likely be upgraded, and McGuire will get a shot to be a return man with a chance to be Powell's replacement next season.

Lots of question marks?  Of course.

Plenty of potential play-makers to give a new QB something to work with?  Yup.

"Is this Jimmy Harbaugh? Yeah? Big Mac here. Wanna come work with The Real Kelvin Beachum and potential playmakers Charone Peake and Chad Hansen?"

 

"<click>"

[AFJF]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

"Is this Jimmy Harbaugh? Yeah? Big Mac here. Wanna come work with The Real Kelvin Beachum and potential playmakers Charone Peake and Chad Hansen?"

 

"<click>"

Bowles isn't going anywhere unless he gets a bunch of hungry young kids to start mailing it in after 10 weeks.

[Charlie Brown]

9 hours ago, ljr said:

The author is still foolish if Hack sucks based on his non NYJ comments 

i see the double down as Hack having this season to show anything good + likely 2018 drafting spot for projected strong 2018 QB draft talent if Hack just shows bad    >   2017 supposedly weak QB draft talent       ... JMO

 

if Mac & Bowles don't give Hack ... Or a much smaller possibility Petty ... a long leash this year then my opinion is blown to shreds... Along with my liver !

I agree with you and hence I too am holding on to this hope least I lose my mind!! 

In truth I have to believe that they have a solid approach. I can't take the alternative.....

Let's go Jets!!  

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Even if you excuse the Jets for passing on a QB this year, it's still inexcusable to do little to pad the nest for the QB they'll draft in 2018. Next year's roster at the skill positions will be even bleaker than this year's because you're definitely losing Decker and could potentially lose Enunwa as an RFA. Even if you're getting Darnold, he could be walking into a huddle with no OLT, no viable C, no WR1, and Bilal Powell. We'll be optimistic and say that Stewart and/or Enunwa develop into a #2 WR, but the cupboard is bare otherwise. 

Bro, have you seen the FA's that are coming out next year or the WR class coming out?  Sheesh

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Leading up to the draft it looked like it was going to be a S, TE, or corner. Turns out the corner and TE had injury issues as did one the safeties.

Anyone not deficated to an ignorant narrative can see there was one player they were going to stick and pick, and he fell to them. 

Im happy they didn't take a QB or corner just for positional value.

Thats how you wind up with bryan thomas over ed reed.

Please let us know in very specific details what you would have done.

First, I would have tried to trade down. To do this, I would have picked up the handset from my landline phone (because it is more reliable than a cell phone), dialed 9 for an outside line, and called the number of the team I was interested in talking to. When they picked up, I would have introduced myself. Then I would say "would you be interested in trading up to the sixth overall pick in the 2017 National Football League Draft, which my team, the New York Jets, currently possesses?" Then we would negotiate what the trade would entail. I would make sure to ask for a future 1st-round pick, but the trade could also involve other picks, or even players. If we were unable to reach an agreement, I would call another team, again by dialing 9 and then the appropriate phone number. At the end of each of these calls, I would say "thank you" and then "good luck with your draft," because I was raised to be polite. Once I reached a deal with a team, I would say "great" or "excellent" and then have an assistant write up the terms of the trade. These would then signed and faxed to the team with which I was trading. Once they signed off on the trade, I would fax it to the National Football League office, where it would presumably be approved. With this step completed, I would then need to think about what player I would draft with the pick I acquired in the aforementioned trade. My top target would be Deshaun Watson, quarterback from Clemson University. Other possibilities, depending on where said pick fell in the first round, could include David Njoku, tight end from the University of Miami (FL) and T.J. Watt, linebacker from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I would also feel a sense of pride and satisfaction because of the future pick I added. In fact, I would already be excited for next year's draft!

Now, what if I were unable to trade down at all? I will now describe my conduct in this scenario. First, I would still say "thank you" and "good luck with your draft" to all the teams I spoke to, even though we were unable to make a deal. Then, I would talk to my assistants and scouts. Together, we would decide on who we would take with the sixth overall pick in the 2017 National Football League Draft. Ultimately, I believe the best player to pick would be Deshaun Watson, quarterback, Clemson University. I would call my representatives at the Draft in Philadelphia. Now, in this case, I may again have to dial 9 for an outside line. On the other hand, we may be connected to our representatives such that pressing a single button--such as "1," "2," or even "3," would connect us directly to them. In either case, I would dial the appropriate number(s), then tell my representatives to write "Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson" on the draft card, knowing that both they and National Football League officials would understand "QB" to be shorthand for "quarterback," the position Watson plays. I would instruct them to write this using a black Sharpie with a fine point, for maximum legibility. This Sharpie would be provided to the representatives in advance of the Draft, so they would not have to borrow one from another team's representatives. The card with "Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson" written on it would be submitted to the National Football League officials in Philadelphia. I would then call Deshaun Watson to tell him we had selected him, and tell him we were excited to have him. At some point, Todd Bowles would also speak to him. When the selection was announced, our draft room would clap and shake hands with one another. Finally, due to the adrenaline rush (and the amount of coffee I drink), I would excuse myself to urinate. Then I would get to work on the rest of the draft--deciding what players to draft, fielding trade offers, and maybe even making a few of my own. A National Football League general manager never rests!

[HessStation]

9 hours ago, Powpow said:

So Prescott was lousy last year? Seems he played at a very high level. Everyone is different. Hack probably needs 3-4 years before he sees the light of day. You can't throw a guy like Hack to be he wolves ?. He's been through too much turmoil. Watson may suck but may be more resilient. Regardless, you just don't know until you see what you got. 

Prescott earned the respect last year. And every QBs success is not his alone. But dude let's be honest w the amount of amazing talent surrounding him. 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

meh every one of us should be hoping we DON'T have to take a QB in next years draft

I know I am. Nothing could be better for this team if Hack or Petty became a reasonably functioning QB this  year. Yet, if our record allowed us a shot at one of the blue chip QBs we do it. That's providing the blue chip QBs are still playing at a high level next year. The most awesome thing would be Hackenburgh coming out and lighting it up. I just hope the supporting cast allows either of our youngsters to be able to display any sort of improvement in their games.

[Warfish]

Whole issue revolves around Hack in 2017.

He does well, justified.

He does poorly, Macc and Bowles should both be fired.

Forme, it really is that simple.

[Pcola]

9 hours ago, Powpow said:

So Prescott was lousy last year? Seems he played at a very high level. Everyone is different. Hack probably needs 3-4 years before he sees the light of day. You can't throw a guy like Hack to be he wolves ?. He's been through too much turmoil. Watson may suck but may be more resilient. Regardless, you just don't know until you see what you got. 

Prescott was the by-product of having the best OL (and best individual players at at least 3 of those positions) in the NFL, Elliott who is top 3 RB, and veteran WRs.  This is a once in a generation opportunity that he lucked into.  If Prescott went anywhere else, where he needed to carry the offense, he would have struggled like all the other rookies.

While you are correct in that everyone is different and every situation is different, the Jets have ignored the offense for so long that unless they drastically change their philosophy, we'll never be able to develop a QB without a once in a generation type of prospect.

[Fantasy Island]

13 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Besides Ryan Fitzpatrick, Ryan Nassib is the worst QB I have ever seen play.

I beg to to differ....

[Adoni Beast]

Next years draft class might be the best for QB's since '83. Might being the key word there. Once upon a time every evaluator said Manning and Lead were equal talents. Jamarcus Russell was once compared JOHN ELWAY, by Mel Kiper.

Having said that I have hope that we are finally on track to find our franchise quarterback. Either by letting Hack develop this year with playing time, or being so terrible we'll draft one next year.

But, before I go rooting for 0-16. I am rooting (not expecting) for Hack to be the guy. As should everyone else, because all these guys next year might bomb this season.

Hackenberg was orignally talked about like Darnold is now.  

 

[nicg4360]

Prescott was the by-product of having the best OL (and best individual players at at least 3 of those positions) in the NFL, Elliott who is top 3 RB, and veteran WRs.  This is a once in a generation opportunity that he lucked into.  If Prescott went anywhere else, where he needed to carry the offense, he would have struggled like all the other rookies.
While you are correct in that everyone is different and every situation is different, the Jets have ignored the offense for so long that unless they drastically change their philosophy, we'll never be able to develop a QB without a once in a generation type of prospect.

I think the QB that ended up in the best situation this year is Mahomes...even better than Watson. Andy Reid as a coach and learning behind a decent QB with a solid team. He won't be forced into playing anytime soon.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, nicg4360 said:

I think the QB that ended up in the best situation this year is Mahomes...even better than Watson. Andy Reid as a coach and learning behind a decent QB with a solid team. He won't be forced into playing anytime soon.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Patrick Mahomes quickly realizes how different an NFL offense is

Posted by Mike Florio on May 8, 2017, 6:03 AM EDT

AP

For quarterbacks attempting to make the transition from college to the pros, one of the biggest challenges comes from learning the far more convoluted offenses of the NFL. For Chiefs rookie Patrick Mahomes, the transition began over the weekend, with the team’s rookie minicamp.

 “It’s definitely learning,” Mahomes told reporters, via quotes distributed by the team. “More so just going through the process and making the ‘mike’ ID, calling the play and making sure everyone is in the right position. It’s a lot more than I had at Texas Tech but we’re learning as we go and we’re getting better every single rep.”

One big challenge for Mahomes, like most other rookie quarterbacks, comes from communication.

“The words are pretty difficult but you get those down,” Mahomes said. “It’s about knowing what’s happening when you say the words. You can’t just say them and not know what’s going on. For me, it’s all about knowing what’s going on the entire play and knowing why coach is calling this play. . . . The biggest thing was just getting in that huddle, calling the play and knowing it. I’ve studied all of the installs that we did. . . . But whenever I got out there and called it, I had to look out, see the guys and make sure everyone was in the right position. That was the process which was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be.”

It’s a little surprising he didn’t know how hard it was going to be. But now he does, and as he sits behind Alex Smith for however long Mahomes will sit, he’ll have time to learn what he needs to learn about life as an NFL quarterback.

As he learns even more about the process, chances are he’ll continue to realize it’s all a lot harder than he thought it was going to be.

[RutgersJetFan]

16 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Even if you excuse the Jets for passing on a QB this year, it's still inexcusable to do little to pad the nest for the QB they'll draft in 2018. Next year's roster at the skill positions will be even bleaker than this year's because you're definitely losing Decker and could potentially lose Enunwa as an RFA. Even if you're getting Darnold, he could be walking into a huddle with no OLT, no viable C, no WR1, and Bilal Powell. We'll be optimistic and say that Stewart and/or Enunwa develop into a #2 WR, but the cupboard is bare otherwise. 

oh yeah well what do you call jordan leggett pal

[RutgersJetFan]

Also there are infinity bad things that could happen with respect to the crop of QBs that the draft blog readers keep endlessly lecturing us about. This plan of not doing sh*t this year because next year will be super awesome is inexcusable and more importantly dumb. If going to football games was free it would be understandable, but last time I checked the NFL is still charging us for 16 Sundays of Josh McCown and Christian Hackenberg this year. 

[Pcola]

45 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Next years draft class might be the best for QB's since '83. Might being the key word there. Once upon a time every evaluator said Manning and Lead were equal talents. Jamarcus Russell was once compared JOHN ELWAY, by Mel Kiper.

Having said that I have hope that we are finally on track to find our franchise quarterback. Either by letting Hack develop this year with playing time, or being so terrible we'll draft one next year.

But, before I go rooting for 0-16. I am rooting (not expecting) for Hack to be the guy. As should everyone else, because all these guys next year might bomb this season.

Hackenberg was orignally talked about like Darnold is now.  

 

With Hack it was always potential.  He learned a very intricate pro offense.  He NEVER had the stats, wins, or leadership that Darnold had last year.  Not even close.