Chad Pennington Question

[nyjunc]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

******* awesome!  Denver cut him because they didn't want to part with that conditional 7th!  You can't make this sh*t up!

why give up a pick when you don't have to?

 

and who cares what he is doing now?  he was good for US.  I don't care how well he played in Philly in 2014 or how poorly he played for them in 2015. He helped MY TEAM reach heights it had never seen before and helped bring us closer to a SB than at any point since SB III.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, gEYno said:

He just turned 30 and his injury was relatively minor.

As for the mind****, what mind****?  The worst thing the Jets did under his tenure was get expensive and old, and ask him to step up.  That happens to QBs.  Unfortunately, he was literally the exact same player on day one as he was when he was released.

And, if Sanchez was such a "snowflake" that he couldn't overcome any adversity, he's not the guy to lead a football team, for sure.

Why was Steve Young shoved out the door in Tampa Bay?  Why was Brett Favre a clueless bust in Atlanta?  Sometimes talented quarterbacks are put in a bad situation, lose their mojo, have no one to throw to, are given poor coordinators.  And when it happens in the same town where you once had success, those issues are magnified 10x.

Mark Sanchez had 3 offensive coordinators in 3 years, lost all his old man WR's, was never provided young WR's to bond with, lost his running game when LT retired and SG got fat, was given Tony Sparano in one shoulder and Tim Tebow on the other, suffered through the indignity of the Geno Smith draft pick, and was slaughtered in a meaningless 4th quarter of a preseason game by his HC.

If you set out to destroy the confidence of your 22 year old quarterback in a town like New York, you couldn't have drawn up a script any better than this.  King of The City in 2011, Buttfumble Doormat in 2012.  Same guy, same kid.  He didn't lose his abilities all of a sudden.  They were taken away from him.  Sadly, they never came back.

SAR I

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Regarding quarterbacks, Namath should be exposed for who he really was, especially now that he acts like such a prick there's no reason to sweep it under the rug anymore.

Regarding head coaches, you need to understand the definition of "the worst".  Rich Kotite might have been a lesser head coach than Rex Ryan, but Rich had nothing to work with, his team was crap.  Rex Ryan was given a lot of talented players to work with, they clearly were capable of 12 wins a year, but he failed when we needed him the most, his D always choked in a big spot, his team was never prepared to play a big game after winning a big game.

In the big picture, Rich Kotite wasn't bad for the Jets, those teams were awful and going nowhere anyway.  Rex Ryan had a ton of talent and pissed it away.  That's why he's worse.

SAR I

 

That awful going nowhere Rich Kotite team went 9-7 under Parcells despite a particularly useless draft.  They were a Leon Johnson option pass from 10-6 and the playoffs.  That Rex Ryan team couldn't win 2 big games in a row?  Huge insult.  Of course, their failures certainly stem in a great part from their stud QB.

[SAR I]

24 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I don't want to get into the business of making excuses for Rex, but one of the biggest reasons that the D "always choked" is because they had to make several game saving stops per game.  The best defense in NFL history is not as good as an offense that can get first downs in the 4th quarter and eventually kneel the game away.  The Sanchez/Ryan era Jets could not do that.  The Jets asked way too much of the defense late in the games - a few late game first downs by the offense here and there, and I believe we'd be talking about those defenses as among the best ever.

I don't deny any of this, but I think you have to look at the context:

Mark Sanchez was a 22 year old college junior thrust into the starting role when many people, including his USC head coach, felt he should still be in a dorm with a meal card and not on an NFL field.

No one can say that Mark Sanchez 2009 and 2010 didn't exceed all expectations and play his role beyond his abilities.  Furthermore, no one can say that the 24 year old Mark Sanchez of July 2011 wasn't on the best trajectory of a young QB that we've seen in New York since Joe Namath after 6 solid playoff starts and was ripe to be surrounded by young, quality offensive talent and tutored by an experienced, strong offensive coordinator.

And none of that happened. 

The failure of that era wasn't that Mark Sanchez was a substandard quarterback.  The failure was that we never even tried to develop him at all.  We had what looked to be the franchise QB we've been starving for for decades, and once we had that hot prospect, validated after 2 years of deep playoff runs, we did nothing to help him.  In fact, we did everything we could to hinder him. 

SAR I

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I don't deny any of this, but I think you have to look at the context:

Mark Sanchez was a 22 year old college junior thrust into the starting role when many people, including his USC head coach, felt he should still be in a dorm with a meal card and not on an NFL field.

No one can say that Mark Sanchez 2009 and 2010 didn't exceed all expectations and play his role beyond his abilities.  Furthermore, no one can say that the 24 year old Mark Sanchez of July 2011 wasn't on the best trajectory of a young QB that we've seen in New York since Joe Namath after 6 solid playoff starts and was ripe to be surrounded by young, quality offensive talent and tutored by an experienced, strong offensive coordinator.

And none of that happened. 

The failure of that era wasn't that Mark Sanchez was a substandard quarterback.  The failure was that we never even tried to develop him at all.  We had what looked to be the franchise QB we've been starving for for decades, and once we had that hot prospect, validated after 2 years of deep playoff runs, we did nothing to help him.  In fact, we did everything we could to hinder him. 

SAR I

#accountability

[ZachEY]

22 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Why was Steve Young shoved out the door in Tampa Bay?  Why was Brett Favre a clueless bust in Atlanta?  Sometimes talented quarterbacks are put in a bad situation, lose their mojo, have no one to throw to, are given poor coordinators.  And when it happens in the same town where you once had success, those issues are magnified 10x.

Mark Sanchez had 3 offensive coordinators in 3 years, lost all his old man WR's, was never provided young WR's to bond with, lost his running game when LT retired and SG got fat, was given Tony Sparano in one shoulder and Tim Tebow on the other, suffered through the indignity of the Geno Smith draft pick, and was slaughtered in a meaningless 4th quarter of a preseason game by his HC.

If you set out to destroy the confidence of your 22 year old quarterback in a town like New York, you couldn't have drawn up a script any better than this.  King of The City in 2011, Buttfumble Doormat in 2012.  Same guy, same kid.  He didn't lose his abilities all of a sudden.  They were taken away from him.  Sadly, they never came back.

SAR I

I'm younger and probably half the NFL historian you are... So, help me out.  Whatever happened to those Steve Young and Brett Favre guys?  Were they 3rd stringers for the rest of their careers, too?

As for his abilities, do you mean the ability in 2009 to be 29th in completion %, 25th in TD%, 3rd in INT%, 28th in Rating, 29th in QBR?  Or, when 2010 when he was still 29th in completion %, 24th in TD%, 17th in INT% (improvement!), 27th in Rating, and 23rd in QBR?

Or, maybe you're basing it all on the emotion of 4th Quarter comebacks, which may not be the most important measure, when you consider that in 2010, he had less than Josh Freeman, who, incidentally, has played in 1 game since 2013.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Why was Steve Young shoved out the door in Tampa Bay?  Why was Brett Favre a clueless bust in Atlanta? 

Steve Young shoved out the door for a 2nd and 4th.  Brett Favre clueless bust:  drafted 1991 #33 overall.  Traded in the offseason for the 1992 #19 overall.  Mark Sanchez cut to save a conditional 7th round pick. 

[nyjunc]

He's not favre(though he did better than Favre w. the same team) or Young, his point was more that they failed in their first stop(Mark didn't fail here) and in the right situation blossomed.  who knows where Mark's career goes if we don't strip him of all his weapons after 2011? 

[shevys]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

why give up a pick when you don't have to?

 

and who cares what he is doing now?  he was good for US.  I don't care how well he played in Philly in 2014 or how poorly he played for them in 2015. He helped MY TEAM reach heights it had never seen before and helped bring us closer to a SB than at any point since SB III.

He really wasn't that good for us. He benefited from a stacked defense and a stout running game. 78.2 quarterback rating was his best with the Jets. And by the way, the team reached those heights before Sanchez came to the team, but why let facts get in the way of reality?

And let me tell you, I was one of the last off the Sanchez train, as I was a fan and an apologist, but let's face it, he wasn't that great. He was barely even good for two seasons.

[Joe W. Namath]

Remember when chad hit santana moss for a 60 yard td bomb in SD playoff game.  Wow!!!

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, shevys said:

He really wasn't that good for us. He benefited from a stacked defense and a stout running game. 78.2 quarterback rating was his best with the Jets. And by the way, the team reached those heights before Sanchez came to the team, but why let facts get in the way of reality?

And let me tell you, I was one of the last off the Sanchez train, as I was a fan and an apologist, but let's face it, he wasn't that great. He was barely even good for two seasons.

good defenses and good run games, nothing great,  did he benefit? sure, all QBs need a good D and run game that aren't name Brady, Rodgers or Ben.

 

we made championship games in 1982 and 1998 but in both games we didn't have a chance late.  we were shut out in one and lost 23-10 in the other. In Pitt we had a legit chance to win but that "great" D couldn't keep Pitt from getting 2 1st downs to end it.

No one has said mark was great but he was GOOD and a QB we could win with.  If he was our QB in 2015 we make a deep run. you don't need a Brady to win but if you have a decent QB and put the right pieces around him you can win- see Eli, Flacco, etc...

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Remember when chad hit santana moss for a 60 yard td bomb in SD playoff game.  Wow!!!

w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder.  one of the best throws you will ever see.

 

go to 7:26 mark

 

[#27TheDominator]

Bah.

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

I don't want to get into the business of making excuses for Rex, but one of the biggest reasons that the D "always choked" is because they had to make several game saving stops per game.  The best defense in NFL history is not as good as an offense that can get first downs in the 4th quarter and eventually kneel the game away.  The Sanchez/Ryan era Jets could not do that.  The Jets asked way too much of the defense late in the games - a few late game first downs by the offense here and there, and I believe we'd be talking about those defenses as among the best ever.

Always sucks when you have to ask your defense to stop a team at the end of the game. Good defenses should not have to do that.

And, this does not even account for the times that Rex Rya himself put the defense in those positions, based on ultra conservative play calling in situations the games could have been put away with more aggressive calls. No, he has to put in on his defense. And we continually saw them fail in late game situations.

Please don't act like Rex was not party to putting his D in game ending situations.

[Joe W. Namath]

Remember when Chad did the shimmy shake on the goal line to score against Buffalo?

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Remember when Chad did the shimmy shake on the goal line to score against Buffalo?

[chirorob]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

That right there is more rushing TD's then Kenny O had in his whole NFL career.

[southparkcpa]

12 minutes ago, chirorob said:

That right there is more rushing TD's then Kenny O had in his whole NFL career.

What do you get when you combine Chad and KO????

 

A statue with a broken shoulder. 

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, chirorob said:

That right there is more rushing TD's then Kenny O had in his whole NFL career.

he almost had one against Miami in 1989 but fell to the ground to avoid a hit at the goalline.

[Joe W. Namath]

I forgot Bartons late hit extended that san diego game.  What a terrible play.  His raiders roots never left him.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I forgot Bartons late hit extended that san diego game.  What a terrible play.  His raiders roots never left him.

that was a bad moment, thankfully Kaeding came through for us.  that would have been an awful way to lose a game and we know a few things about losing in awful ways. 

[chirorob]

35 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he almost had one against Miami in 1989 but fell to the ground to avoid a hit at the goalline.

I still remember that one.   It's amazing, how 1 or 2 plays stick in your mind.

[chirorob]

43 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

What do you get when you combine Chad and KO????

 

A statue with a broken shoulder. 

It's called the Chad O'Brien

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He's not favre(though he did better than Favre w. the same team) or Young, his point was more that they failed in their first stop(Mark didn't fail here) and in the right situation blossomed.  who knows where Mark's career goes if we don't strip him of all his weapons after 2011? 

Ah yes, if only we'd had the opportunity to see what Mark Sanchez could have been, had he been given another shot, or 4...

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Always sucks when you have to ask your defense to stop a team at the end of the game. Good defenses should not have to do that.

And, this does not even account for the times that Rex Rya himself put the defense in those positions, based on ultra conservative play calling in situations the games could have been put away with more aggressive calls. No, he has to put in on his defense. And we continually saw them fail in late game situations.

Please don't act like Rex was not party to putting his D in game ending situations.

I'm not defending Ryan, or his strategies, as much as I'd defend the players on those defenses.  I don't really think all of the "choking" is on them.

[Joe W. Namath]

Remember the offseason Chad took karate to gain some arm strength?  Karate was the key for him.