Christian Hackenberg- Foot Mechanics

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, win4ever said:

I think it's different because mostly these folks have pretty much nothing else to do.  I was following some "path to the draft" kind of video a year or so ago for some guy I've never heard of.  What does he do all day?  Wakes up, plans out his meals into like 8 different boxes, works out for like 3 hours, and then practices with some other guys, and calls it a day.  Pretty much doesn't do anything else, other than hang out with his girlfriend and it was kinda obvious the TV show wanted her there for some sex appeal.  

Personally, I can relate because when I was growing up, I was a huge baseball fan.  Now, I wasn't good enough to compete or actually get a college scholarship or anything, but among my friends, I was a pretty good pitcher.  I could throw a good fastball and slider, and that was it.  Unfortunately, I got killed by guys batting left handed because I couldn't throw the slider anywhere but the dirt so they would just sit on the fastball (and this is like 70s fastball, so not exactly Nolan Ryan here) so I decided to learn to switch pitch (before I ever heard of Pat Vendette) because I could throw almost as fast with my left hand.  I could throw the fastball, but for the life of me, I couldn't throw any other pitch.  I knew the mechanics of the slider, and in practice, I would get one right, out of about five, but as soon as someone stood in the box, it was just a slow pitch fastball that kept spinning.  

I think with Hackenberg, it's a bit different mainly because these mechanics are usually universal.  It's taught from pretty much HS on ward, so I think it's more about just relearning it from him.  

Thanks man, I appreciate it.  

It is depressing, honestly.  It's quite depressing to be a Jets fan at times, because people almost look at you with pity when you tell them.  I told a Titans fan a few weeks ago, that I follow the Jets and he gave the "aww" look.  I was like "WTF?" 

Yeah, these guys have so much time and money invested in him, that some coach will be working with him consistently to get it right.  It's just a matter of enough repetition because he went two years with the wrong mechanics, so he has to work out the kinks. 

Yeah, I really do hope he turns it around.  He shows so much potential, if he could just fix his mechanics.  I think he's different than some of the other projects because it's not quite as extensive in terms of relearning the mechanics.  A lot of project guys have long windups (similar to pitchers) to generate velocity (or they can't read defenses) but in Hackenberg's case, it's really more about the foot.  

First off, who the **** are the Titans to be giving you sh*t about being a Jets fan? 

 

14 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

If you had a full time coach and a wave pool you could probably improve quite a bit. It's about putting in thousands of hours to retrain your muscles, not tens of hours.

Think of it as learning a new language. If you didn't have any native speakers to talk to you will never be very fluent, but if you have only native speakers to talk to you would, very quickly.

It all depends on how determined Hack is to change, and how focused his coaches are. He's not going to get anywhere unless he's relentless. 

You're both right though.  It's all about your time commitment to it.  Most of the surfers that grow up to be pros, are rich, home schooled spoiled brats who's live on the beach and surf everyday with coaches and their parents have the money to send them around the world to get exposure to the best waves at a young age.  I grew up in Valley Stream and then Orlando, so I had to make a trip to the beach any time I wanted surf and it was mostly on the weekends wedged between Bball, baseball and Football games. 

[Skeptable]

23 hours ago, JiF said:

I love these threads.  I really do.  I appreciate the effort and thought that go into them but this one...I'm just having a hard time with.  We're literally discussing a player who was taken in the 2nd round and the fact he doesnt know know you're supposed to step into a throw with your opposite foot pointing in the direction of your target.  

Like, we're actually going to debate whether or not Hack is capable of doing the most basic mechanic in the art of throwing anything and if a professional coaching staff is strong enough to teach this mechanic.  This is actually happening? 

There are plenty of quarterbacks taken in the first and second round that have poor footwork. This is not uncommon some develop... some do not. To say that he was drafted to high because his footwork is something he should have already developed by now is vastly simplifying the mechanics of throwing a football at the professional level.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

There are plenty of quarterbacks taken in the first and second round that have poor footwork. This is not uncommon some develop... some do not. To say that he was drafted to high because his footwork is something he should have already developed by now is vastly simplifying the mechanics of throwing a football at the professional level.

many last year were pounding the table for a guy named paxton lynch, whose footwork was also needing major work.  

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

There are plenty of quarterbacks taken in the first and second round that have poor footwork. This is not uncommon some develop... some do not. To say that he was drafted to high because his footwork is something he should have already developed by now is vastly simplifying the mechanics of throwing a football at the professional level.

We are talking about pointing your opposite foot at your target when you throw...this is literally the first lesson you receive after "let go".  

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

many last year were pounding the table for a guy named paxton lynch, whose footwork was also needing major work.  

Outside of Watson, all the QBs taken in the first two rounds this year need plenty of work and will likely sit out this year. It's only a drama when it involves the jets. 

Mahomes is a high first round pick and no one thinks he's close to being ready.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Outside of Watson, all the QBs taken in the first two rounds this year need plenty of work and will likely sit out this year. It's only a drama when it involves the jets. 

Mahomes is a high first round pick and no one thinks he's close to being ready.

i am so glad the jets didn't reach for any of these qbs, let alone trade any of next year's picks to get one.

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

We are talking about pointing your opposite foot at your target when you throw...this is literally the first lesson you receive after "let go".  

Again, Poor footwork is poor footwork... you are simply oversimplifying a major mechanic in successful QBs.  This is something that can be corrected given time.  I would much rather their be a huge smoking gun then a bunch of little things that add up. Its easier to correct one big problem then 15 little issues. 

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

We are talking about pointing your opposite foot at your target when you throw...this is literally the first lesson you receive after "let go".  

I have seen top 5 qb's that needed heavy work on their arm slot and release. Quarterbacks. Working on arm slot and release. 

Weird how they don't come out as perfect products.

[Skeptable]

10 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

many last year were pounding the table for a guy named paxton lynch, whose footwork was also needing major work.  

Or trade up for Goff.

[Scott Dierking]

Here for instance was Derek Carr's write-up pre-draft:

Mechanics

And here's where we start getting into some of the negatives to Carr's game. His mechanics, particularly in his lower body, are inconsistent at best. He often throws off of his back foot and doesn't transfer his weight properly when throwing the ball. He also lets his throwing mechanics be affected by pressure in the pocket, whether it's rushing his throw and not paying attention to his arm slot or not taking the time to focus on proper lower body mechanics. Carr's biggest problems tend to come with pass rushers in his face, and that leads us to the other issue with Carr ...

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/4/14/5614326/derek-carr-2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Again, Poor footwork is poor footwork... you are simply oversimplifying a major mechanic in successful QBs.  This is something that can be corrected given time.  I would much rather their be a huge smoking gun then a bunch of little things that add up. Its easier to correct one big problem then 15 little issues. 

It should be easy to correct because its the most simple mechanic in the art of throwing beside letting go.  One would hope at this point in a players career, that they have this portion of the mechanics down pat...but here we are. 

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I have seen top 5 qb's that needed heavy work on their arm slot and release. Quarterbacks. Working on arm slot and release. 

Weird how they don't come out as perfect products.

10000x times more difficult of a mechanic to master than stepping into a throw with your opposite foot pointing at your target. 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, JiF said:

It should be easy to correct because its the most simple mechanic in the art of throwing beside letting go.  One would hope at this point in a players career, that they have this portion of the mechanics down pat...but here we are. 

Everyone has something that they need to work on. One guys' "easy" thing to do, is another's "struggle". These are not robots and all have developed differently, been taught differently and have different make-ups.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here for instance was Derek Carr's write-up pre-draft:

Mechanics

And here's where we start getting into some of the negatives to Carr's game. His mechanics, particularly in his lower body, are inconsistent at best. He often throws off of his back foot and doesn't transfer his weight properly when throwing the ball. He also lets his throwing mechanics be affected by pressure in the pocket, whether it's rushing his throw and not paying attention to his arm slot or not taking the time to focus on proper lower body mechanics. Carr's biggest problems tend to come with pass rushers in his face, and that leads us to the other issue with Carr ...

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/4/14/5614326/derek-carr-2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report

I'm sure this is common with big arm QB's see: Pat Mahomes.  

[section314]

I remember in the mid to late 90's the Toronto Blue Jays had a young pitcher who had it all......size, velocity, secondary pitches. He was rushed to the majors, got pounded, and was sent back down to A ball to learn how to pitch again. Came back a few years later, mechanically sound, and went on to have a pretty decent career. His name is Roy Halladay. Point being, if the Jets have to break Hack down and he becomes a great QB, it will be well worth it.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

10000x times more difficult of a mechanic to master than stepping into a throw with your opposite foot pointing at your target. 

You are certainly overgeneralizing here.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Everyone has something that they need to work on. One guys' "easy" thing to do, is another's "struggle". These are not robots and all have developed differently, been taught differently and have different make-ups.

No doubt.  Everyone has something to work on.  I think it's just the surface...when you just think about what we're talking about, it seems so ridiculous it's just a little depressing. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

It should be easy to correct because its the most simple mechanic in the art of throwing beside letting go.  One would hope at this point in a players career, that they have this portion of the mechanics down pat...but here we are. 

You are relentless on this... So what... after fighting for his life for 2 years his footwork got messed up and he doesn't point where he throws... Again... I would much rather a Big smoking gun then 15 other issues. As other breakdowns show, he is making correct reads, which is bigger then a mechanical flaw which shows that he knows where to throw.... Think of all the unsuccessful QBs that never develop that skill.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I'm sure this is common with big arm QB's see: Pat Mahomes.  

Let me put you behind a porous line, have rushers in t=your face constantly, and then critique you on mechanics. Then we can have someone say "how easy it should be to learn that". 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

You are certainly overgeneralizing here.

Not really.  Arm position, release, how you hold the ball...that stuff is tough to learn and overcome.  Especially if you have small hands or you dont have big arm.  You might have a different release to get more velocity or more touch or more grip, etc.  

But stepping into a throw?  Come'on man...that's not the same level.  That's 101 sh*t.  The stuff above is next level work and much much more challenging to overcome.  Which I guess in this case, is a good thing. 

 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

No doubt.  Everyone has something to work on.  I think it's just the surface...when you just think about what we're talking about, it seems so ridiculous it's just a little depressing. 

Be depressed all you want, but it is a fact of life for the majority of football players coming into the NFL. They have something they need to work on. Some of it may be characterized as "simple" by some, but they exist. 

A CY Young candidate in baseball can't throw to first base. WTF is that?

 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Not really.  Arm position, release, how you hold the ball...that stuff is tough to learn and overcome.  Especially if you have small hands or you dont have big arm.  You might have a different release to get more velocity or more touch or more grip, etc.  

But stepping into a throw?  Come'on man...that's not the same level.  That's 101 sh*t.  The stuff above is next level work and much much more challenging to overcome.  Which I guess in this case, is a good thing. 

 

I just showed you Derek Carr had the same problem. But, hey, c'mon man.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You are relentless on this... So what... after fighting for his life for 2 years his footwork got messed up and he doesn't point where he throws... Again... I would much rather a Big smoking gun then 15 other issues. As other breakdowns show, he is making correct reads, which is bigger then a mechanical flaw which shows that he knows where to throw.... Think of all the unsuccessful QBs that never develop that skill.

Agreed.  Where am I saying different?  Of all the things to correct, this should be easy.  It's just a shame we're discussing it for a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year in the league. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

Not really.  Arm position, release, how you hold the ball...that stuff is tough to learn and overcome.  Especially if you have small hands or you dont have big arm.  You might have a different release to get more velocity or more touch or more grip, etc.  

But stepping into a throw?  Come'on man...that's not the same level.  That's 101 sh*t.  The stuff above is next level work and much much more challenging to overcome.  Which I guess in this case, is a good thing. 

 

I completely disagree with this.... It is much harder to change an arm position, release point, or even how you hold the ball then to change stepping into your throw.... As you said this is 101 stuff... So its MUCH easier to learn and conquer

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

Agreed.  Where am I saying different?  Of all the things to correct, this should be easy.  It's just a shame we're discussing it for a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year in the league. 

Why is this a shame... Only one issue on a prototypical QB in the second round... This could easily be the steal of the draft... Or it could flame out... 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Why is this a shame... Only one issue on a prototypical QB in the second round... This could easily be the steal of the draft... Or it could flame out... 

Well, it's not his "only"issue, but it would help other things, hopefully. Still a project.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Be depressed all you want, but it is a fact of life for the majority of football players coming into the NFL. They have something they need to work on. Some of it may be characterized as "simple" by some, but they exist. 

A CY Young candidate in baseball can't throw to first base. WTF is that?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I just showed you Derek Carr had the same problem. But, hey, c'mon man.

Did Derek Carr get redshirted his rookie season? 

[Skeptable]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Well, it's not his "only"issue, but it would help other things, hopefully. Still a project.

Just over simplifying his other issues as @JiF is oversimplifying footwork issues

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I completely disagree with this.... It is much harder to change an arm position, release point, or even how you hold the ball then to change stepping into your throw.... As you said this is 101 stuff... So its MUCH easier to learn and conquer

Did you just agree with me but say that you disagree?  You're confusing me now. 

2 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Why is this a shame... Only one issue on a prototypical QB in the second round... This could easily be the steal of the draft... Or it could flame out... 

Ummmm....only one issue?  haha

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Skeptable said:

Just over simplifying his other issues as @JiF is oversimplifying footwork issues

I'm curious, what is this thread about? 

[thadude]

Hack will be out of the NFL this time next yr 

[thadude]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I just showed you Derek Carr had the same problem. But, hey, c'mon man.

I remember Derek Carr actually playing as a rookie and showing potential while Hack wore pajamas 

[thadude]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Did Derek Carr get redshirted his rookie season? 

This is the easiest Internet debate ever

 

The Hack-lovers, oh my God do they look retarded

[Scott Dierking]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Did Derek Carr get redshirted his rookie season? 

He did play his senior year of college.

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Did you just agree with me but say that you disagree?  You're confusing me now. 

Ummmm....only one issue?  haha

No

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

I remember Derek Carr actually playing as a rookie and showing potential while Hack wore pajamas 

Why don't you just tell us what former banned poster you are, and stop trolling. I mean really. It is a tired act.