Christian Hackenberg- Foot Mechanics

[JoJoTownsell1]

Just now, thadude said:

This is the easiest Internet debate ever

 

The Hack-lovers, oh my God do they look retarded

You are absolutely the worst poster in this forum. How many hack lovers are there? I haven't really seen any. All I see are Jets fans HOPING he develops. I am fully expecting him  to fail and for us to draft Darnold next year, but I am HOPEFUL that he figures it out and becomes a franchise QB. That's all we have to look forward to this year. Unless you are Mccowns father. I haven't really seen a single poster come out and say "I love Hack, he is a lock to be a franchise QB." 

There is nothing wrong with guarded optimism. It's far better than blind stupidity. 

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

Did you just agree with me but say that you disagree?  You're confusing me now. 

Ummmm....only one issue?  haha

You are saying that as a College QB, this is something that he should have learned in Peewee... I don't disagree... but you can lose your mechanics as you grow up. You get sloppy, happens to a lot of QBs... maybe they drop arm slot, etc. Happens in many different ways... to Hackenberg he lost his footwork.  Which over time should be realitively easy to fix. Doesn't mean that it can be fixed in 5 days, or 3 months, or 1 year but it should be able to be fixed. 

You think Hackenberg is less of a QB because the footwork he lost is something simple that he learned as a child and I am saying that it is all the same and I am happy that its not something more difficult to correct like arm slot or release point.

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You are absolutely the worst poster in this forum. How many hack lovers are there? I haven't really seen any. All I see are Jets fans HOPING he develops. I am fully expecting him  to fail and for us to draft Darnold next year, but I am HOPEFUL that he figures it out and becomes a franchise QB. That's all we have to look forward to this year. Unless you are Mccowns father. I haven't really seen a single poster come out and say "I love Hack, he is a lock to be a franchise QB." 

There is nothing wrong with guarded optimism. It's far better than blind stupidity. 

Plenty of homers on this board who have mastered the art of self-deception regarding Hack and this current regime

 

Macc, Hack, Bowles -- all will be gone in about 8 months

 

 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Skeptable said:

You are saying that as a College QB, this is something that he should have learned in Peewee... I don't disagree... but you can lose your mechanics as you grow up. You get sloppy, happens to a lot of QBs... maybe they drop arm slot, etc. Happens in many different ways... to Hackenberg he lost his footwork.  Which over time should be realitively easy to fix. Doesn't mean that it can be fixed in 5 days, or 3 months, or 1 year but it should be able to be fixed. 

You think Hackenberg is less of a QB because the footwork he lost is something simple that he learned as a child and I am saying that it is all the same and I am happy that its not something more difficult to correct like arm slot or release point.

This is me giving you and Scott high fives because we've been going back and forth saying the same thing for 2 pages!!!

[thadude]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Why don't you just tell us what former banned poster you are, and stop trolling. I mean really. It is a tired act.

I was originally thedude

[Skeptable]

Just now, JiF said:

This is me giving you and Scott high fives because we've been going back and forth saying the same thing for 2 pages!!!

You are pessimistic, I am optimistic... their in lies the major difference..

[section314]

7 minutes ago, thadude said:

I was originally thedude

No way...I'm guessing PatsFNTx 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You are pessimistic, I am optimistic... their in lies the major difference..

In general, not really.  When it comes to Pro Sports?  100%.  I'm a Jets, Mets, Knicks, Islanders fan - wtf have they done to give me any optimism in my lifetime?

In this particular situation, I find it discouraging that a player who was kept as far away from the playing field as possible is struggling with the most simple mechanic in the art of throwing.  You would hope an entire season of just working on mechanics would have helped.  WTF else was he doing? 

And I didnt start the thread.  This was presented to me and I'm commenting on it.  Saying the exact same thing as you just with a different (in reality probably a more appropriate) perspective.  

 

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

No way...I'm guessing PatsFNTx 

No I don't have exciting life and career prospects Patsfantx did with his 50 bajillion posts on Jet messageboards 

[section314]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

No I don't have exciting life and career prospects Patsfantx did with his 50 bajillion posts on Jet messageboards 

LOL

[varjet]

38 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Why is this a shame... Only one issue on a prototypical QB in the second round... This could easily be the steal of the draft... Or it could flame out... 

There are reasons QBs get picked below the first round.  There is Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Drew Brees, and backups and busts.

One of the reasons is that they need development.   The Jets last year, under Bowles and Macc, were not running a QB or player development program.  They have attempted to bring in better coaches.  We shall see. 

[southparkcpa]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

There are reasons QBs get picked below the first round.  There is Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Drew Brees, and backups and busts.

One of the reasons is that they need development.   The Jets last year, under Bowles and Macc, were not running a QB or player development program.  They have attempted to bring in better coaches.  We shall see. 

Who was the last player we truly developed?  Not including 1st rounders?

im in vacation , buzz on. Can't think of one.  I'm sure there are a few.   

Cotch? Snacks maybe?

[thadude]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

There are reasons QBs get picked below the first round.  There is Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Drew Brees, and backups and busts.

One of the reasons is that they need development.   The Jets last year, under Bowles and Macc, were not running a QB or player development program.  They have attempted to bring in better coaches.  We shall see. 

Funny you say that considering Gailey had a qb-friendly playbook

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, thadude said:

Plenty of homers on this board who have mastered the art of self-deception regarding Hack and this current regime

 

Macc, Hack, Bowles -- all will be gone in about 8 months

 

 

Hopefully, your gone before them.

[win4ever]

9 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

You can't teach them to change their muscle memory while also teaching them to react to anything else. It must be done in a vacuum, and it needs to be consistent or it's just not going to work...which is why it usually doesn't work. 

It really does take repetition after repetition to build muscle memory because he can't be out there thinking about his mechanics, it has to be natural to him.  I don't think he's having these bad mechanics out there by choice, he falls back into them because it became a habit.  I think the hips flying open comes directly from avoiding hits because it plants his lead foot further away from contact, allowing him to spin away faster.  It might be one of the reasons he was relatively healthy after taking a beating.  

9 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Exactly why you cannot bring your new swing to the course until it has become your swing instead of your "New" swing. Once you get on the course with your old swing you will have to begin all over again. Patience, effort, singularity, and consistency are the keys. I still close my club face instead of keeping my core straight because I don't play enough to change. By the time I get my swing down it will be winter again, and I don't want to look special all summer. 

It's not nearly as radical a change, but I changed my pool bridge from bare knuckles to a loop and it took me 3 weeks many hours a day until it started to pay off, and over a year before it was second nature. My consistency improved by about 50% in the end though.  

Yeah, I think I mentioned my baseball throwing left handed issue before, it takes a ton of time to change.  An easy example would be to try and write in a different style than you are accustomed to, and see how much issues pop up, because your hand is trained to write one way for so long that it's muscle memory.  Or even typing, I have a fairly large laptop, and I've had similar type laptops for years now, so I'm accustomed to the size.  Then I try a really small keyboard, and it's errors abound.  

6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Many still don't fully appreciate the impact of all those scholarships PSU was not allowed to offer. Hack was broken. That excuse isn't going to help the Jets win games, but if he has improved his mechanics and the O-line improves he could excel. He has  the arm strength and overall ability. I will believe it when I see it, but it's just about the only hope we have for this season. 

Some are making it seem as if Hack is the first QB to work on his mechanics after College. I am sure many QBs mechanics are different from when they were in college. Even the best QBs have QB coaches that work on mechanics and  tweak things here and there. 

It's really too early to tell, which was why I put the disclaimer about being too early in bold, because that was my issue as well.  Only have two throws in practice.  I would love to see him throw in team drills or pre-season, but that's so far away that I figured it was worth analyzing.  Maybe some of you could go to training camp and notice any differences.  

The offensive line was horrible and honestly he should have transferred.  I'm not sure why he didn't because that team was a sunk cost without those scholarships.  It wasn't even the best of situations to begin with because Penn State really hasn't been consistently competitive with the likes of Michigan, Michigan State, and definitely Ohio State for a good amount of time.  He really only went there for the coach, and once he left, so should have Hackenberg.  

I think Aaron Rodgers was dinged for his mechanics as well when he came out (something about holding the ball to high I think) and I know for sure people worried about Philip Rivers.  

5 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Great point. I know there are some military, law enforcement, and some trained fighters on this site and when the sh*t hits the fan you fight how you were trained, it just happens. It's all about when Hack is under pressure what will he revert back too. I am not saying  he can not be re trained but it takes a lot of reps and real life scenarios to make this transformation a success or a failure. Either you have it or you don't, and when a DL is bearing down on him then we can see where his mechanics are. I wish him the best.

I think if they put him in last year, he would revert back to his old issues.  In fact, in the pre-season we saw the same issues that plagued him during his days at Penn State.  My hope is that he spent the year working on his mechanics, be it with coaches or his own, to the point that the foot issue isn't nearly as bad as it was last year.  He certainly didn't have much else to do last year, lol.  

5 hours ago, JiF said:

First off, who the **** are the Titans to be giving you sh*t about being a Jets fan? 

 

Lol, weird vibe in the city now.  When I first moved here, it was college football all the time, any time.  Now, everyone is a Predators fans, even though you could get tickets for like $10 about 2 months ago for any game.  Now, there is a huge fan base out of nowhere.  The Titans are looking up with Mariota, they are getting some national love, so there are more people excited about it.  And Vanderbilt (who basically run the city) finished on a high note last year, so people are excited to see where they go, and I think their recruiting has seen a slight uptick as well.  

 

5 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

many last year were pounding the table for a guy named paxton lynch, whose footwork was also needing major work.  

I didn't like Lynch quite as much (although I thought he would be a better pick than Hackenberg- who I had rated in the 3rd-4th range).  My big issue with him was ball trajectory, he seemed to throw every pass like a fastball, and that usually doesn't work well with angles in the NFL.  

5 hours ago, JiF said:

We are talking about pointing your opposite foot at your target when you throw...this is literally the first lesson you receive after "let go".  

The foot change has an effect on everything.  

You mentioned you are a Mets fan, so I'll use baseball because it's easier for me, lol.  It's akin to a batter working on his stride and leg kick.  So you see a bunch of guys with high leg kicks because it helps them load power and torque to the hips, so when they plant the foot and unload, they have more torque to pull the bat through the zone faster.  Now, when they get older (or are sucking) they reduce the leg lift, because their muscles are slower, so they prioritize speed in getting to the zone, rather than power through the zone.  However, it's not an easy adjustment because when they change the leg kick, they change the timing of their swing, although we are talking milliseconds here.  It's usually done when older, because they are better at recognizing pitches, so the lower leg kick allows them to start their swing just a tick earlier, which they rely more on their eyes to tell them if it's a strike or ball.  When they are younger, they are going to let the ball travel just a bit more, and then use the torque to move the bat through the zone faster.  Although, different hitters have different approaches, so guys have completely different approaches.  

So for someone like Hackenberg, the foot issue isn't as arduous to fix in theory.  However, the mechanics have a big change in velocity and trajectory of the football, so he now has to readjust his target zone as well.  It's the reverse of the baseball analogy, where the short foot stride allows for the ball to come closer, Hackenberg's lazy foot mechanics allow him more time to find an open receiver.  He also has to work on his arm speed now, because the lack of proper foot mechanics takes velocity off the ball naturally, so now if he wants to throw with touch, he has to slow down his arm speed and possibly change launch angles as well.  

It really sucks that he didn't get as much practice last year because we wanted to keep Fitzpatrick for the whole year.  The perfect roster last year was Geno/Petty/Hackenberg, and if Geno got hurt, sign some veteran off the street to protect Hackenberg.

5 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Outside of Watson, all the QBs taken in the first two rounds this year need plenty of work and will likely sit out this year. It's only a drama when it involves the jets. 

Mahomes is a high first round pick and no one thinks he's close to being ready.

People like to kick the Jets because unfortunately the fan base and the media covering the team love controversy.  The Bengals picked up Mixon, and there are people out there rating it as a good pick.  We almost had a mutiny on the board, on the POSSIBILITY of picking Mixon.  

Last year, every media member wanted Fitz or Lynch.  It had to be one or the other (if not both), and they both sucked last year.  Imagine if the Jets picked Lynch in the first, and he was horrible?  

5 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Again, Poor footwork is poor footwork... you are simply oversimplifying a major mechanic in successful QBs.  This is something that can be corrected given time.  I would much rather their be a huge smoking gun then a bunch of little things that add up. Its easier to correct one big problem then 15 little issues. 

It is easier to correct one major problem, although that major problem has a trickle down effect on other things.  I think it's good that, at least to my untrained eyes, he seems mechanically sound besides the footwork.  

If his footwork is better, then the upcoming pre-season is exciting.  If not, I'm going to drive up views for draft breakdown videos myself, lol.

5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

I have seen top 5 qb's that needed heavy work on their arm slot and release. Quarterbacks. Working on arm slot and release. 

Weird how they don't come out as perfect products.

Luck didn't have major problems, I think that's why he was so highly rated because he came ready to play out of college.  Even Winston had some issues with his windup and ball trajectory coming out I believe.

5 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here for instance was Derek Carr's write-up pre-draft:

Mechanics

And here's where we start getting into some of the negatives to Carr's game. His mechanics, particularly in his lower body, are inconsistent at best. He often throws off of his back foot and doesn't transfer his weight properly when throwing the ball. He also lets his throwing mechanics be affected by pressure in the pocket, whether it's rushing his throw and not paying attention to his arm slot or not taking the time to focus on proper lower body mechanics. Carr's biggest problems tend to come with pass rushers in his face, and that leads us to the other issue with Carr ...

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/4/14/5614326/derek-carr-2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Yeah, I think the weird thing with Carr was that a lot of people seemed to mention that he had trouble with the deep ball.  His first year with the Raiders, I don't think they threw the ball deep that often either, but it looks like he improved last year.  

5 hours ago, JiF said:

It should be easy to correct because its the most simple mechanic in the art of throwing beside letting go.  One would hope at this point in a players career, that they have this portion of the mechanics down pat...but here we are. 

It should be somewhat consistent by now, but I think part of the issues that many prospects face is the system they play in.  Spread offenses create one on one match ups and a lot of confusion for defenses, where there are a bunch of guys that are wide open.  They don't really require great throws to complete passes, because it's really just about timing and trusting your guy vs. the defense.  So I think there are some guys that may not have footwork issues, but have release issues or loading issues because they have the extra space and time to operate in. 

5 hours ago, JiF said:

10000x times more difficult of a mechanic to master than stepping into a throw with your opposite foot pointing at your target. 

I think the hardest to change is your windup and release point because that's a complete breakdown of your muscle memory going back to high school, so compared to that, I do think the footwork one is easier.

4 hours ago, Skeptable said:

You are relentless on this... So what... after fighting for his life for 2 years his footwork got messed up and he doesn't point where he throws... Again... I would much rather a Big smoking gun then 15 other issues. As other breakdowns show, he is making correct reads, which is bigger then a mechanical flaw which shows that he knows where to throw.... Think of all the unsuccessful QBs that never develop that skill.

I really hope he has the footwork down, because it would really help to evaluate him in the pre-season.  

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Not really.  Arm position, release, how you hold the ball...that stuff is tough to learn and overcome.  Especially if you have small hands or you dont have big arm.  You might have a different release to get more velocity or more touch or more grip, etc.  

But stepping into a throw?  Come'on man...that's not the same level.  That's 101 sh*t.  The stuff above is next level work and much much more challenging to overcome.  Which I guess in this case, is a good thing. 

 

It is easier that release issues or windup issues, but it is hard to change though.  It's ingrained in him to spin away from pressure while in college, so he needs to learn how to stay in the pocket more.  The problem arises if he's not immediately successful and gets hit by an NFL LB, does he stay with the footwork or start reverting to quick throws again?  

[win4ever]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

There are reasons QBs get picked below the first round.  There is Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, Drew Brees, and backups and busts.

One of the reasons is that they need development.   The Jets last year, under Bowles and Macc, were not running a QB or player development program.  They have attempted to bring in better coaches.  We shall see. 

I have no idea what Bowles was doing last year, because their entire plan with QBs was horrible.  

1.  They put all their eggs with Fitz, with Bowles even calling him the starter without signing him (helped ruin some negotiation leverage as well)

2.  They stuck with Fitz too long after it was clear he didn't have it.

3.  They went right back to Fitz after Geno got hurt, even though there were no possible good outcomes in doing so.

4.  They went to Petty, while nationally announcing that it was to see his talents while the season was over, which made every defense plan for the pass.

5.  They admitted that they are doing absolutely nothing with Hackenberg all year, because it was his red-shirt year.

 

5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Who was the last player we truly developed?  Not including 1st rounders?

im in vacation , buzz on. Can't think of one.  I'm sure there are a few.   

Cotch? Snacks maybe?

I would say Enunwa actually, went from a wild card PS squad guy to a reliable No. 2 type now.  

Other than that, it's hard with a lot of high profile busts in Pryor, Coples, Milliner (although his was more injury related), Sheldon (he's gone backwards with Bowles), Demario Davis (our Ray Lewis), Hill, Geno, Amaro, the list goes on, lol.

[greenwave81]

On 5/25/2017 at 6:22 PM, bitonti said:

The Jets offensive line isn't good. Or even average compared to others around the league.  but even if it was, Hackenberg gets 3 seconds in the NFL to make a decision. Truly less than that if we factor in the late blocking changes needed to avoid 6 on 5 situations or worse. Put it another way in an obvious passing situation the Cowboys best line in football doesn't give Dak Prescott that much more time than McCown/Petty/Hack gets behind the Jets line. Most of the time they each get 3 seconds before something has to happen. The reason why finding a QB is so hard is those 3 seconds. 

Exactly....and that is why the HEAD part of the equation, to rapidly assess information and go quickly through progressions is so important...and, IMO, is harder to 'learn' or teach, than mechanics.

There are a lot of guys out there with good mechanics and good arms...but few that can 'think' as needed for an NFL QB.  If Hack can do the mental stuff, I still have hope for him.

[greenwave81]

WATCH-Christian-Hackenbergs-first-NFL-drive-ends-in-TD-pass-47011575

I watch this video, and see everything the OP notes.

Watch the poor throws at first...the underthrows and the errant throws....then watch the GOOD throws Hack makes.  The mechanics are awesome...foot toward target, steps into the throws etc...and then the TD toss.

I have hope.

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

WATCH-Christian-Hackenbergs-first-NFL-drive-ends-in-TD-pass-47011575

I watch this video, and see everything the OP notes.

Watch the poor throws at first...the underthrows and the errant throws....then watch the GOOD throws Hack makes.  The mechanics are awesome...foot toward target, steps into the throws etc...and then the TD toss.

I have hope.

Sanchez and Geno had better film.......

[win4ever]

5 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

WATCH-Christian-Hackenbergs-first-NFL-drive-ends-in-TD-pass-47011575

I watch this video, and see everything the OP notes.

Watch the poor throws at first...the underthrows and the errant throws....then watch the GOOD throws Hack makes.  The mechanics are awesome...foot toward target, steps into the throws etc...and then the TD toss.

I have hope.

Yeah, it's a systemic issue with him, especially that first pass because he had all the time to step into that throw.  

I'm cautiously optimistic to see him in the pre-season right now, but I'd love to hear about his mechanics during OTAs the next time the media is allowed to be there.  I'm not sure why they even cover McCown, like we don't know what he is already.  

[T0mShane]

19 hours ago, JiF said:

Agreed.  Where am I saying different?  Of all the things to correct, this should be easy.  It's just a shame we're discussing it for a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year in the league. 

Are you implying that foot placement might not be Hackenberg's actual problem? That just because he's always been underwhelming, that maybe blaming his foot placement--something he's allegedly been working on for over two years--is a fool's errand?

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, it's a systemic issue with him, especially that first pass because he had all the time to step into that throw.  

I'm cautiously optimistic to see him in the pre-season right now, but I'd love to hear about his mechanics during OTAs the next time the media is allowed to be there.  I'm not sure why they even cover McCown, like we don't know what he is already.  

Because McCown is the current starting quarterback of the New York Jets and Hackenberg is on the alternate field throwing footballs to assistant coaches and garbage cans.

[JetFaninMI]

On 5/25/2017 at 2:34 PM, Tinstar said:

I wonder what Jet fans will say if this kid starts the season, has a 50% completion percentage rate, throws for 3000 yards, with 20TDs and 12 INTs and the Jets win 7 games in the season .

I would say welcome to Fantasy Island.....Seriously if that happened I would be so surprised that I would be utterly speechless. That would mean Mac would now be called a genius....Bowles a HOF coach and Hack a franchise QB. As much as I would love to see it I'm not overly optimistic based on the results of this regime so far. Hack may have talent I just don't believe the right people are in place to groom and refine that talent. Unless the new offensive staff are better than anyone is giving them credit for I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong I really do.

[mkajet01]

Hack or petty the future

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Tinstar]

3 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

I would say welcome to Fantasy Island.....Seriously if that happened I would be so surprised that I would be utterly speechless. That would mean Mac would now be called a genius....Bowles a HOF coach and Hack a franchise QB. As much as I would love to see it I'm not overly optimistic based on the results of this regime so far. Hack may have talent I just don't believe the right people are in place to groom and refine that talent. Unless the new offensive staff are better than anyone is giving them credit for I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong I really do.

"You have to see a thing before you see the thing or you never will see the thing" . Those are the wise words someone once told me that I now tell you .  One ,might ask how you can see something without actually seeing it . The reply would be by Faith, because "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not  seen" . So you see beloved, since me being a Jet fan, hope for the best for my Jets, I choose to see all those things by Faith .

I  offer you this and all it cost is for you to change your way of thinking .   

[Fantasy Island]

Do you blame the QB who doesn't know how to pass or the GM that selects him after a private workout in the second round?   

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Do you blame the QB who doesn't know how to pass or the GM that selects him after a private workout in the second round?   

Like the chicken or the egg

[win4ever]

Because McCown is the current starting quarterback of the New York Jets and Hackenberg is on the alternate field throwing footballs to assistant coaches and garbage cans.

Garbage cans are an improvement over throwing to Amaro and Kellen Davis, so he's moving on up.

We already know what McCown is at the NFL level, so it doesn't really matter how he looks at practice, since we can't glean too much from it.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, win4ever said:

 

Garbage cans are an improvement over throwing to Amaro and Kellen Davis, so he's moving on up.

We already know what McCown is at the NFL level, so it doesn't really matter how he looks at practice, since we can't glean too much from it.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I agree. The smart thing to do, imo, is start Hack come hell or high water, and give him six games. If he's unbearable, turn to Petty. Given what we've seen, however, I'd imagine we'll see McCown start Week One, then Petty at some point, and then Hackenberg when he stops flop-sweating during pre-game around Week Twelve.

[win4ever]

Do you blame the QB who doesn't know how to pass or the GM that selects him after a private workout in the second round?   

It's an interesting query, but I blame PSU, and the scandal. And partially Hackenberg for not transferring.

If not for the issues at PSU, they would have a normal line and decent options, which would have meant that Hackenberg would be allowed to show his true ability and we would be able to determine his true talent level at a better level.

Right now it feels like his last two years are like us looking at say Allen and just looking at games with major programs where the team is just clearly outmatched. On what curve do we grade it?

You can blame the GM for over-picking but all the draft pundits didn't predict so many QB's going in the top 12 this year and look what happened.

I can see what the GM was thinking. This guy has first round talent, with undrafted production. However, they felt that maybe a few mechanical changes could unlock that potential and it's worth a gamble in the second when we're desperate for a QB. Maybe he valued him in the 3rd-4th but felt some team might pick him off so he bit the bullet. If it works out, great. If not, blame Bowles in his next job interview.

[T0mShane]

52 minutes ago, win4ever said:

 

It's an interesting query, but I blame PSU, and the scandal. And partially Hackenberg for not transferring.

If not for the issues at PSU, they would have a normal line and decent options, which would have meant that Hackenberg would be allowed to show his true ability and we would be able to determine his true talent level at a better level.

Right now it feels like his last two years are like us looking at say Allen and just looking at games with major programs where the team is just clearly outmatched. On what curve do we grade it?

You can blame the GM for over-picking but all the draft pundits didn't predict so many QB's going in the top 12 this year and look what happened.

I can see what the GM was thinking. This guy has first round talent, with undrafted production. However, they felt that maybe a few mechanical changes could unlock that potential and it's worth a gamble in the second when we're desperate for a QB. Maybe he valued him in the 3rd-4th but felt some team might pick him off so he bit the bullet. If it works out, great. If not, blame Bowles in his next job interview.

 

Except, by curve, you have to use wishcasting on the Y-axis, and actual performance on the X-axis. You can retroactively build in excuses or advantages for any prospect you want.

[T0mShane]

"Man, no one would look good playing for that Penn State team. Franklin is horrible. It's a miracle Hackenberg survived at all."

 

Penn State goes 11-3 and finishes 7th in the country the year after Hackenberg leaves.

 

"Yeah well that's different man."

[Adoni Beast]

20 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

WATCH-Christian-Hackenbergs-first-NFL-drive-ends-in-TD-pass-47011575

I watch this video, and see everything the OP notes.

Watch the poor throws at first...the underthrows and the errant throws....then watch the GOOD throws Hack makes.  The mechanics are awesome...foot toward target, steps into the throws etc...and then the TD toss.

I have hope.

There's every reason to have hope, because when this kid puts the mechanics together and had a little time to throw he can be a real good player. Question is can he keep the good throws consistent and cut down on the bad ones? I think he can, as long as he's throwing for first downs on 3rd down, and putting points on the board, his completion % won't matter as much if he's making big plays at critical moments and avoiding the back-breaking picks. 

Do the Jets and fan base have the patience to give him his time to develop and build a better team while this happens? I think Hackenberg should get at least half of this season, and most of next (even if we draft a guy in the 1st next draft) to start and see what he's really got. 

[win4ever]

Except, by curve, you have to use wishcasting on the Y-axis, and actual performance on the X-axis. You can retroactively build in excuses or advantages for any prospect you want.

You can do it, and it does happen fairly often. Usually, there are somewhat preconceived levels which tell you how to grade stuff.

Using Josh Allen as the example, probably top 3 type pick next year right now. He faces Nebraska last year, throws about 4 interceptions (had a Fitzpatrick-esque 6 or 7 that could be intercepted) and I think most people will see it as an outlier game because his team is just over-matched. The defense is getting pressure without stunts and receivers aren't getting separation. On the other hand, he faces some random school that his team can walk over, where there is no pressure, wide open receivers and running lanes so you have to tick some points away.

The case of Hackenberg is difficult because he's facing good quality teams in the BigTen, but the talent level is so off base, how do you curve it? There just aren't that many examples we can look back to compare.

Someone like Allen or Mahomes this year are going to be graded more for their physical ability than production because the playing field isn't the same. In Mahomes case, it's the system that causes fluctuations. With Hackenberg, I think the grades are hard to project so a team looks at the upside with fixed mechanics, and the downside as is, and took a risk. I wasn't thrilled with the pick because I saw him as a 3rd-4th guy but I'm guessing they believe in fixing his mechanics. If the mechanics are fixed, I think he has first round potential, although that's no sure thing either as we've seen.

[win4ever]

Except, by curve, you have to use wishcasting on the Y-axis, and actual performance on the X-axis. You can retroactively build in excuses or advantages for any prospect you want.

You can do it, and it does happen fairly often. Usually, there are somewhat preconceived levels which tell you how to grade stuff.

Using Josh Allen as the example, probably top 3 type pick next year right now. He faces Nebraska last year, throws about 4 interceptions (had a Fitzpatrick-esque 6 or 7 that could be intercepted) and I think most people will see it as an outlier game because his team is just over-matched. The defense is getting pressure without stunts and receivers aren't getting separation. On the other hand, he faces some random school that his team can walk over, where there is no pressure, wide open receivers and running lanes so you have to tick some points away.

The case of Hackenberg is difficult because he's facing good quality teams in the BigTen, but the talent level is so off base, how do you curve it? There just aren't that many examples we can look back to compare.

Someone like Allen or Mahomes this year are going to be graded more for their physical ability than production because the playing field isn't the same. In Mahomes case, it's the system that causes fluctuations. With Hackenberg, I think the grades are hard to project so a team looks at the upside with fixed mechanics, and the downside as is, and took a risk. I wasn't thrilled with the pick because I saw him as a 3rd-4th guy but I'm guessing they believe in fixing his mechanics. If the mechanics are fixed, I think he has first round potential, although that's no sure thing either as we've seen.