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T0mShane

A pragmatist's guide to watching the 2017 Jets season

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1.  woody may or may not have done thing to this team's detriment.  he owns the team and, as far as i can tell, he is suffering from bad advice from owners like kraft.  kraft is no friend of woody's when it comes to football.  woody needs to understand his rich friends are his enemies when it comes to football. i would prefer woody stay away from the football aspect and hire a football type president gm to settle any mac/bowles dispute.

2.  that's hard to say.  bowles says he'll put the guy in who gives the team the best chance to win. if hack shows something he should be that guy because mccown is taking this team nowhere.

3. people tend to forget that todd blackledge was the 2nd or 3rd qb taken in 83 and outside of elllway, kelllly, and marino the rest of the group was so-so.  so odds that any of those 3 listed guys being good is slim.  i am of the opinion, based on the crop since leinart, that usc qb's just aren't that good when they get to the pros.  they are overhyped so teams need to beware of darnold.

4. assets?  like it or not the jets are one of 32 nfl teams.  it's a small market.  any coach who shuns the job is crazy (unless you're like gruden and have a huge espn contract). maybe getting a bona fide top coach will be difficult but even there they don't always pan out.  look at when little nicky went to the doltfins.

5. this team has almost always had an issue with leadership.  mashall was clearly not the leader the idiots like manish would have people believe.  and some of the players really just need to stfu.

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8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

1.  woody may or may not have done thing to this team's detriment.  he owns the team and, as far as i can tell, he is suffering from bad advice from owners like kraft.  kraft is no friend of woody's when it comes to football.  woody needs to understand his rich friends are his enemies when it comes to football. i would prefer woody stay away from the football aspect and hire a football type president gm to settle any mac/bowles dispute.

2.  that's hard to say.  bowles says he'll put the guy in who gives the team the best chance to win. if hack shows something he should be that guy because mccown is taking this team nowhere.

3. people tend to forget that todd blackledge was the 2nd or 3rd qb taken in 83 and outside of elllway, kelllly, and marino the rest of the group was so-so.  so odds that any of those 3 listed guys being good is slim.  i am of the opinion, based on the crop since leinart, that usc qb's just aren't that good when they get to the pros.  they are overhyped so teams need to beware of darnold.

4. assets?  like it or not the jets are one of 32 nfl teams.  it's a small market.  any coach who shuns the job is crazy (unless you're like gruden and have a huge espn contract). maybe getting a bona fide top coach will be difficult but even there they don't always pan out.  look at when little nicky went to the doltfins.

5. this team has almost always had an issue with leadership.  mashall was clearly not the leader the idiots like manish would have people believe.  and some of the players really just need to stfu.

1. Hiring a credible team president is something I've advocated since Parcells left, but it seems to be something that Woody is either unwilling or incapable of doing.

 

2. This is a problem because McCown gives them "the best chance to win" immediately, but hurts them long-term. Starting 0-8 with Hackenberg or Petty is more palatable than going 5-3 with McCown, and there's no way you're going 5-3 with McCown anyway.

 

3. Right, but you can't just not draft a QB because Todd Blackledge and Matt Leinart sucked.

 

4. Assistant coaches spend their entire adult lives angling for a shot at an HC job and taking the wrong one can ruin their professional lives in the span of two years. Bowles, if he's fired at the end of the year, will never get another head coaching job. Gus Bradley will never get another shot. Marty Mornhinweig, Jim Schwartz, etc etc. The Jets job is death right now.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. Hiring a credible team president is something I've advocated since Parcells left, but it seems to be something that Woody is either unwilling or incapable of doing.

 

2. This is a problem because McCown gives them "the best chance to win" immediately, but hurts them long-term. Starting 0-8 with Hackenberg or Petty is more palatable than going 5-3 with McCown, and there's no way you're going 5-3 with McCown anyway.

 

3. Right, but you can't just not draft a QB because Todd Blackledge and Matt Leinart sucked.

 

4. Assistant coaches spend their entire adult lives angling for a shot at an HC job and taking the wrong one can ruin their professional lives in the span of two years. Bowles, if he's fired at the end of the year, will never get another head coaching job. Gus Bradley will never get another shot. Marty Mornhinweig, Jim Schwartz, etc etc. The Jets job is death right now.

 

 

in re 4, well yes, a failed head coaching gig is most likely the end of the line but most of those guys still stay in the club as assistants.  and some can get another shot if they are young enough.  little joshy is going to get another shot if not the patsies. chip kelly got two shots so did mangini. and most of the head coaching contracts are pretty pricey.  i for one am not shedding a tear for rex or mangini.

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Macc is in charge here if you have not figured that out yet

You really think it was Bowles who went out and got Morton, Bates, the 2 other off assists, Green, Dunn, and the cb coach....the only thing Bowles did was sit in on interviews and pout...they hired his future replacement in there.

You really think Bowles had any say in draft or FA...uhm no.

So what's left? Who will play....Bowles lost lots credibility in that department last season with RB,  QB,  secondary decisions.  He riding a 10 and 6 season from year before.  He wont have that same luxory again.  By default Macc is deciding who will play by bringing in the new coaches.

So what's left ? Bowles is just a rubber stamper and his days are numbered.

 

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What questions is Decker gonna get asked about Fitz and Marshall? Uh hey, do you miss them?? I think you're making this team sound way more toxic then it actually is. 

Leadership will come from the younger players who are out actually making plays. Powell will outplay Forte, Enunwa can emerge past Decker, Adams is already the best player in the secondary. 

Fans and media are gonna try hard to look for problems/drama when I really don't think there will be much to find. They're starting from the bottom with no expectations, being ranked already everywhere last in the league. It'll only pile on during the season if we see minimal improvement anywhere at all and draft picks are struggling. 

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12 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Macc is in charge here if you have not figured that out yet

You really think it was Bowles who went out and got Morton, Bates, the 2 other off assists, Green, Dunn, and the cb coach....the only thing Bowles did was sit in on interviews and pout...they hired his future replacement in there.

You really think Bowles had any say in draft or FA...uhm no.

So what's left? Who will play....Bowles lost lots credibility in that department last season with RB,  QB,  secondary decisions.  He riding a 10 and 6 season from year before.  He wont have that same luxory again.  By default Macc is deciding who will play by bringing in the new coaches.

So what's left ? Bowles is just a rubber stamper and his days are numbered.

 

Bowles wanted and got Gailey and Kacy Rodgers. Bowles wanted Fitzpatrick resigned. Bowles wanted Skrine, wanted Cromartie, wanted Tony Jefferson (for which we got outbid) . I don't think it's a coincidence that Bowles, a DB coach by trade, just saw his team draft two safeties in rounds one and two. The coaches they hired outside of Morton were all on the street, with Bates and Greene being out of the league altogether. If Maccagnan was the guy making the calls on these hires, Bowles should resign now because it'd be a sure sign that they're all temps.

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7 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

You really think highly of ardarious Stewart, huh

 Together with Adams, he's the one most of the non-goofball draft community seems to like the most.

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8 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

What questions is Decker gonna get asked about Fitz and Marshall? Uh hey, do you miss them?? I think you're making this team sound way more toxic then it actually is. 

Leadership will come from the younger players who are out actually making plays. Powell will outplay Forte, Enunwa can emerge past Decker, Adams is already the best player in the secondary. 

Fans and media are gonna try hard to look for problems/drama when I really don't think there will be much to find. They're starting from the bottom with no expectations, being ranked already everywhere last in the league. It'll only pile on during the season if we see minimal improvement anywhere at all and draft picks are struggling. 

Decker is a weird case in that he's always been a highly productive guy who received relatively little interest as a free agent and signed here pretty cheaply. It didn't seem like the Broncos players were shedding too many tears, either, and former Bronco Mark Schlereth ripped him on the way out as an overrated primadonna. I like Decker on the field, but his comments and actions during the Fitzpatrick negotiations, along with his predictable headlong dive onto IR when the season went to hell, seems to indicate that he's not exactly a galvanizing force in any locker room he's in.

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26 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Macc is in charge here if you have not figured that out yet

You really think it was Bowles who went out and got Morton, Bates, the 2 other off assists, Green, Dunn, and the cb coach....the only thing Bowles did was sit in on interviews and pout...they hired his future replacement in there.

You really think Bowles had any say in draft or FA...uhm no.

So what's left? Who will play....Bowles lost lots credibility in that department last season with RB,  QB,  secondary decisions.  He riding a 10 and 6 season from year before.  He wont have that same luxory again.  By default Macc is deciding who will play by bringing in the new coaches.

So what's left ? Bowles is just a rubber stamper and his days are numbered.

 

This I highly doubt, it would make waaay too much sense, but I do hope you are correct.

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11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles wanted and got Gailey and Kacy Rodgers. Bowles wanted Fitzpatrick resigned. Bowles wanted Skrine, wanted Cromartie, wanted Tony Jefferson (for which we got outbid) . I don't think it's a coincidence that Bowles, a DB coach by trade, just saw his team draft two safeties in rounds one and two. The coaches they hired outside of Morton were all on the street, with Bates and Greene being out of the league altogether. If Maccagnan was the guy making the calls on these hires, Bowles should resign now because it'd be a sure sign that they're all temps.

Well again Bowles did all those things riding on 10 and 6 season and based on some reputation thing out of AZ.  I have no doubt Macc and Bowles started off on equal footing but that all ended 3/4 into last season.  The 2 safeties were BPA and Macc doing and I am in minority here agreeing with him as I saw that as weakest position on team aside from QB after FA.

Coaches on teams do not work for the HC they work for the team and I think the next HC of jets will be Morton if he shows any signs of success.

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23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Decker is a weird case in that he's always been a highly productive guy who received relatively little interest as a free agent and signed here pretty cheaply. It didn't seem like the Broncos players were shedding too many tears, either, and former Bronco Mark Schlereth ripped him on the way out as an overrated primadonna. I like Decker on the field, but his comments and actions during the Fitzpatrick negotiations, along with his predictable headlong dive onto IR when the season went to hell, seems to indicate that he's not exactly a galvanizing force in any locker room he's in.

Please tell me this overrated windbag was one of the ESPN casualties of their latest round of firings....

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2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 it's not a particularly appealing job to walk into, especially when you consider how poorly run the team has been for decades.

 

You can say they have been poorly run for decades, yet SAR wrote a great post on this explaining that as success goes, the Jets have been above average for said decades.  It has been the last five where our competitiveness has lacked.

 

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3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

You can say they have been poorly run for decades, yet SAR wrote a great post on this explaining that as success goes, the Jets have been above average for said decades.  It has been the last five where our competitiveness has lacked.

 

I like and appreciate SAR's work, but SAR sells the Jets like a really good salesman sells you a KIA.

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

When you have a few minutes, I'd be interested to read an alarmist's guide to the upcoming season. 

 

IMG_0448.JPG

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33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I like and appreciate SAR's work, but SAR sells the Jets like a really good salesman sells you a KIA.

LOL I know a few people who have Kia's and they brag about them like they are a Bentley and rave about the warranty, meanwhile the new Kia Optima doesn't even come with a spare tire. 

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2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

You guys have way too much fascination in a woody.   

No, he is the guy that has set up this structure in which neither the GM nor the HC are responsible nor have the final say. That Petty barely played, and only did so with a dumbed down offense,  and Hackenberg didn't play at all in 2016 was an organizational disaster. Now he goes and says everyone's job is secure no matter how awful 2017 is because it's clear that situation was atrocious. Yet he gave the same exact assurance to Mangini in his Favre year and then fired him despite his guarantee. Entirely possible that staring down the barrel of a 4 win season Bowles digs his heels in to play McCown knowing that such a promise is worthless. And there isn't anything Mccaganan could do in 2016 nor can he do in 2017 should that happen. 

And further spare Mangini (a guy who despite being very bright was very bad  managing people) Johnson always hire the same defense first tough guy BS coach. In the offensively explosive NFL of the last 2 decades it's inexplicable. It's one thing to buck an industry's trends if you succeed wildly beyond your competition, but quite another when you fail every time. 

 

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1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

Well again Bowles did all those things riding on 10 and 6 season and based on some reputation thing out of AZ.  I have no doubt Macc and Bowles started off on equal footing but that all ended 3/4 into last season.  The 2 safeties were BPA and Macc doing and I am in minority here agreeing with him as I saw that as weakest position on team aside from QB after FA.

Coaches on teams do not work for the HC they work for the team and I think the next HC of jets will be Morton if he shows any signs of success.

Simply picking 2 safeties with your top picks is an insane waste of resources in a normal year, doing so when your offense is the worst unit in the NFL even worse. 

There is no LT, the center is average at best. And the rest of the  OL is mostly retreads.

The QB spot is a disaster.

CB is horrendous.

Despite numerous top picks scattered around the front 7 (and Williams being a very good/possibly great player) there is no pass rusher. 

Safeties are either CBs too slow to cover wideouts or LBs too small to play the run.You can get a servicable safety later in the draft or as a free agent. You are less likley to get a premium position later or in FA.  Same way you would not pick a guard early  unless he's versatile enough to spot at tackle or center. Points to a GM (or HC making these choices?) who don't understand the value of position groups within the draft. Further if Bowles is such a  great DB coach, he apparently cannot coach anyone up? Before we start with the Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu, well they had f___ing better be close to that to justify this. 

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I think the OP was the finest work I have seen from Shane.

If Bowles is starting McCown mid-season and the Jets are middling, Macc should cut him and promote Evans from the practice squad.  

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32 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think the OP was the finest work I have seen from Shane.

If Bowles is starting McCown mid-season and the Jets are middling, Macc should cut him and promote Evans from the practice squad.  

As to Woody; a real owner if he is going to step in at all, asks why you bother to sign McCown in the first place. A complete waste of money; nobody was signing him until after the draft but before camp anyway. And you want to play Hackenberg and Petty; what do these guys offer, or do we need another one? A 38 year old JAG on the way out of the NFL is pointless in so many ways. But this is the same idiot owner that demanded they sign Tebow right after signing Drew Stanton. None of there contracts(McCown., Stanton, Tebow)  by themselves break the cap nor the bank, but does show a pattern of imbecility when it comes to understanding value and cost. Function of being a spoiled rich kid. 

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2 hours ago, Bugg said:

No, he is the guy that has set up this structure in which neither the GM nor the HC are responsible nor have the final say. That Petty barely played, and only did so with a dumbed down offense,  and Hackenberg didn't play at all in 2016 was an organizational disaster. Now he goes and says everyone's job is secure no matter how awful 2017 is because it's clear that situation was atrocious. Yet he gave the same exact assurance to Mangini in his Favre year and then fired him despite his guarantee. Entirely possible that staring down the barrel of a 4 win season Bowles digs his heels in to play McCown knowing that such a promise is worthless. And there isn't anything Mccaganan could do in 2016 nor can he do in 2017 should that happen. 

And further spare Mangini (a guy who despite being very bright was very bad  managing people) Johnson always hire the same defense first tough guy BS coach. In the offensively explosive NFL of the last 2 decades it's inexplicable. It's one thing to buck an industry's trends if you succeed wildly beyond your competition, but quite another when you fail every time. 

 

Woody's biggest mistake was none of what you mention.....it was keeping and trusting Terry Bradway mistake after mistake.

BTW - I loved Favre year - he got hurt and it didnt work out but was fun while it lasted and Mangini is a douche so who gives a fck

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1 minute ago, SickJetFan said:

Woody's biggest mistake was none of what you mention.....it was keeping and trusting Terry Bradway mistake after mistake.

BTW - I loved Favre year - he got hurt and it didnt work out but was fun while it lasted and Mangini is a douche so who gives a fck

Would have greatly preferred giving Mangini six years instead of Rex.

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2 hours ago, Bugg said:

Simply picking 2 safeties with your top picks is an insane waste of resources in a normal year, doing so when your offense is the worst unit in the NFL even worse. 

There is no LT, the center is average at best. And the rest of the  OL is mostly retreads.

The QB spot is a disaster.

CB is horrendous.

Despite numerous top picks scattered around the front 7 (and Williams being a very good/possibly great player) there is no pass rusher. 

Safeties are either CBs too slow to cover wideouts or LBs too small to play the run.You can get a servicable safety later in the draft or as a free agent. You are less likley to get a premium position later or in FA.  Same way you would not pick a guard early  unless he's versatile enough to spot at tackle or center. Points to a GM (or HC making these choices?) who don't understand the value of position groups within the draft. Further if Bowles is such a  great DB coach, he apparently cannot coach anyone up? Before we start with the Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu, well they had f___ing better be close to that to justify this. 

no it wasnt considering that is how the draft fell....in a year where there were no blue chip QB, LT, out of reach OLB he did the right thing by not reaching.

the rest of your crying i was too tired to read...

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Just now, T0mShane said:

Would have greatly preferred giving Mangini six years instead of Rex.

your a douche too :)

 

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Just now, SickJetFan said:

no it wasnt considering that is how the draft fell....in a year where there were no blue chip QB, LT, out of reach OLB he did the right thing by not reaching.

the rest of your crying i was too tired to read...

None of this applied in the second round 

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1 minute ago, SickJetFan said:

your a douche too :)

 

Because I clean out mad vaginas.

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Just now, T0mShane said:

None of this applied in the second round 

sure it did...did you know Seattle took 3 safeties when they already have strength there.

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Macc is in charge here if you have not figured that out yet
You really think it was Bowles who went out and got Morton, Bates, the 2 other off assists, Green, Dunn, and the cb coach....the only thing Bowles did was sit in on interviews and pout...they hired his future replacement in there.
You really think Bowles had any say in draft or FA...uhm no.
So what's left? Who will play....Bowles lost lots credibility in that department last season with RB,  QB,  secondary decisions.  He riding a 10 and 6 season from year before.  He wont have that same luxory again.  By default Macc is deciding who will play by bringing in the new coaches.
So what's left ? Bowles is just a rubber stamper and his days are numbered.
 

We'll see who's in charge when our starting qb is named. By the way kacy rogers is still here just saying


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Because I clean out mad vaginas.

you know...i never thought of it that way

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1 minute ago, Jets0712 said:


We'll see who's in charge when our starting qb is named. By the way kacy rogers is still here just saying


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Kacy Rogers is not a teacher nor does he need to be...not when you now have Dunn, Green, and I always forget the new CB coach name.  Mo way they were going to get rid of him anyway as they might as well fire Bowles too if they did.

as far as who will start - I think the best player should start.  I thought Petty look the best with the least and didnt start last year nor did they ever have any intentions no matter how good he played.....now many were fired so how that work out for them?

I have no idea what they will do this year but if McCown looks the best in PS then he should play but only if he is way better.

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