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A pragmatist's guide to watching the 2017 Jets season


T0mShane

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56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Clearly, Mangini was bad with people management, but a lot of good players magically appeared on the roster while he was here and that coincidentally stopped when he left.

You are getting way ahead of yourself here. Eric Mangini, for whatever flaws he has as a person, a coach, an operations manager, is a grownup. An actual honest to god adult human. That particular debate ends right there. I would have been real interested to see what might have been if somebody had only had the common sense to chalk 2007 up to hard schedule, no quarterback, sh*t happens. Or to not see the way 2008 proceeded to go as grounds to double down on the chinese fire drill in a burning oil field approach. Rex drafted Mark Sanchez and Mangini demonstrably would not have done so. That's the derp of the decade but it's just one more symptom of good old #1.

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Based upon how teams are drafting today, Clady, McKelvin, Mayo and even Flacco were who should have been picked there.

No way Flacco lasts that long if redrafted, even assuming no hindsight.  Basically Wentz.  

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

Based upon how teams are drafting today, Clady, McKelvin, Mayo and even Flacco were who should have been picked there.

No way Flacco lasts that long if redrafted, even assuming no hindsight.  Basically Wentz.  

I recall at that time there was a very clear 'top-6' and we picked 6th.  Gholston was the last of those top-6 that fell to us.  No matter how sh*tty the outcome, I can't fault the pick.  it wasn't like we couldn't use a pass-rusher at that (or any other) time.

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8 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Ooooh so he gets excuses because of how the draft was I c how u work.

Mangini should have been our GM....drafted well.  Everybody blames him for Gholston....Take a look at that draft.  A WHOLE lotta busts.  We were in no mans land and needed a pass rusher.  If we had of passed him and he went on to be great, Jet fans would have called for his head in that situation as well.

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10 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Mangini should have been our GM....drafted well.  Everybody blames him for Gholston....Take a look at that draft.  A WHOLE lotta busts.  We were in no mans land and needed a pass rusher.  If we had of passed him and he went on to be great, Jet fans would have called for his head in that situation as well.

He drafted well?

1st off he had the fortune enuff to have 2 number 1 picks his 1st year because he traded away our last pass rusher who made a difference.  They had 10 picks in that draft and came away with 4 players?

In 2007 draft they had 4 picks came away with 2 payers revised and Harris

In 2008 they ended up with 6 pics and 2 1st rounders and they ended up with 1 player? Who didn't get 2nd contract.

No they were not good.

 

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2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

He drafted well?

1st off he had the fortune enuff to have 2 number 1 picks his 1st year because he traded away our last pass rusher who made a difference.  They had 10 picks in that draft and came away with 4 players?

In 2007 draft they had 4 picks came away with 2 payers revised and Harris

In 2008 they ended up with 6 pics and 2 1st rounders and they ended up with 1 player? Who didn't get 2nd contract.

No they were not good.

 

Could be wrong, but didn't Mangini's drafts include, D'Brick, Mangold, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, Revis, David Harris, and Lowery?

I'd take that now

Very limited number of picks because of Trader Mike.  Who by the way really owned those drafts, not Mangini

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On 5/27/2017 at 5:43 AM, T0mShane said:

 

3. Are Josh Allen, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Luke Falk, etc. any good?

Every year it's presumed the next QB crop will be good and every year the Jets get a high draft pick, the QB crop is always trash. Well, here we are again, so it's time to set the DVR to record some PAC-12 and Mountain West games. That is, unless you believe that the Jets have their QB of the future on their roster right now, which likely means that a "pragmatist's guide" isn't really for you.

 

I understand the point you're getting at, and yes all eyes will be on football saturdays this fall.

I won't disagree, there's been a litany of letdowns over the years in college on the perceived "tomorrow's QB". All I'm going to offer is a few talking points to consider as we head into the summer; volume is in our favor. There's definitely been as you said, classes that didn't deliver, but there's rarely been this many potential blue chippers in May. Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Falk, Jackson, Rudolf just to start the conversation. Even if couple of them disappoint, you still have options. And that's if no other QB ascends during the 2017 season, something that almost never happens. 

So no matter how you look at it, there's more than likely going to be at least 4 serious names floating around in round 1 who deserve to be in that conversation. 

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1. If Woody does take the ambassador job that will be a sign that he is trusting his staff to do their jobs which is exactly what a great owner does. Quite frankly I believe that he has always done a good job of that and we just haven't had the right combination of manager and coaching staff.
2. Maccagnan is in charge of building the team and Bowles makes the game time decisions. Within that context there needs to be cooperation, a like-minded philosophy and an understanding that they will not always agree one another. If it does turn into a civil war played out in the media (and the media's going to try like hell to portray one)then they both need to go. Personally I think that goes against both of their philosophies and it's being demonstrated by "cleaning house".
3. The QB is one man and ain't no one man that's going to make our team great. I don't care who he is. If Brady would've been traded to us for Sanchez then he'd be retired now because that bumbling manager-coach combo we had couldn't even pronounce "offensive lineman". Also as a long time Jets fan we all know there ain't no way we're going to lose the last games of the season if we're still in the hunt for a low pick.
4. I'm rooting for Bowles and Maccagnan to have success this year. I believe that's going to happen and that Bowles goes on to be the Jets best coach ever.
5. I agree.



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7 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

He drafted well?

1st off he had the fortune enuff to have 2 number 1 picks his 1st year because he traded away our last pass rusher who made a difference.  They had 10 picks in that draft and came away with 4 players?

In 2007 draft they had 4 picks came away with 2 payers revised and Harris

In 2008 they ended up with 6 pics and 2 1st rounders and they ended up with 1 player? Who didn't get 2nd contract.

No they were not good.

 

But Vernon Gholston though...dude was ripped.

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6 hours ago, Jiminy Cricket said:

1. If Woody does take the ambassador job that will be a sign that he is trusting his staff to do their jobs which is exactly what a great owner does. Quite frankly I believe that he has always done a good job of that and we just haven't had the right combination of manager and coaching staff.
2. Maccagnan is in charge of building the team and Bowles makes the game time decisions. Within that context there needs to be cooperation, a like-minded philosophy and an understanding that they will not always agree one another. If it does turn into a civil war played out in the media (and the media's going to try like hell to portray one)then they both need to go. Personally I think that goes against both of their philosophies and it's being demonstrated by "cleaning house".
3. The QB is one man and ain't no one man that's going to make our team great. I don't care who he is. If Brady would've been traded to us for Sanchez then he'd be retired now because that bumbling manager-coach combo we had couldn't even pronounce "offensive lineman". Also as a long time Jets fan we all know there ain't no way we're going to lose the last games of the season if we're still in the hunt for a low pick.
4. I'm rooting for Bowles and Maccagnan to have success this year. I believe that's going to happen and that Bowles goes on to be the Jets best coach ever.
5. I agree.



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Corky Johnson?

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

I understand the point you're getting at, and yes all eyes will be on football saturdays this fall.

I won't disagree, there's been a litany of letdowns over the years in college on the perceived "tomorrow's QB". All I'm going to offer is a few talking points to consider as we head into the summer; volume is in our favor. There's definitely been as you said, classes that didn't deliver, but there's rarely been this many potential blue chippers in May. Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Falk, Jackson, Rudolf just to start the conversation. Even if couple of them disappoint, you still have options. And that's if no other QB ascends during the 2017 season, something that almost never happens. 

So no matter how you look at it, there's more than likely going to be at least 4 serious names floating around in round 1 who deserve to be in that conversation. 

Every year, my brother. 

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9 hours ago, flgreen said:

Could be wrong, but didn't Mangini's drafts include, D'Brick, Mangold, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, Revis, David Harris, and Lowery?

 

Yes, but think of  those fifth, sixth and seventh rounders that DIDN'T have ten+ year careers and factor them into the ratio and it looks BAD.

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8 hours ago, Paradis said:

I understand the point you're getting at, and yes all eyes will be on football saturdays this fall.

I won't disagree, there's been a litany of letdowns over the years in college on the perceived "tomorrow's QB". All I'm going to offer is a few talking points to consider as we head into the summer; volume is in our favor. There's definitely been as you said, classes that didn't deliver, but there's rarely been this many potential blue chippers in May. Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Falk, Jackson, Rudolf just to start the conversation. Even if couple of them disappoint, you still have options. And that's if no other QB ascends during the 2017 season, something that almost never happens. 

So no matter how you look at it, there's more than likely going to be at least 4 serious names floating around in round 1 who deserve to be in that conversation. 

I think a good QB is BOTH born and made.  That is why it is so hard to find them.

A QB either has the mental AND physical ability to be successful.  They they have to well-coached in the right system.  I see signs of the Jets getting it.  They lost three years during Gailey's retirement fund top up period with the Jets.  

My biggest question/concern is whether Petty and Hack are the right QBs for Morton's system.  They should have found a way to draft Peterman.   Accuracy.  

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On 5/27/2017 at 11:30 AM, joewilly12 said:

LOL I know a few people who have Kia's and they brag about them like they are a Bentley and rave about the warranty, meanwhile the new Kia Optima doesn't even come with a spare tire. 

Do you know what cars come with a spare tire? None.

It is an option at best now and most come with run flat tires or a tire inflation kit.

Just a pet peeve of mine when people get upset about spare tires. You don't need them.

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11 hours ago, flgreen said:

Could be wrong, but didn't Mangini's drafts include, D'Brick, Mangold, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, Revis, David Harris, and Lowery?

I'd take that now

Very limited number of picks because of Trader Mike.  Who by the way really owned those drafts, not Mangini

Yep it was mostly trader mike but OP wanted to credit Mangini with all so I went with.

As far as who they picked yes there was some good ones and us Jet fans think they are all HOF types but if you look at the 3 years as a whole it was not good and 2008 started the depth issues we see today.

These same posters who want to anoint Mangini to GM status are quick to dismiss Macc and his drafts that so far are contributing through the 7th round.

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Eric Mangini was the last real 'head coach' this team had as opposed to being a DCoordinator who wanted to call the shots and get paid to be ahead coach but who didn't have a foggy clue how to do all the other stuff.

The years Mangini was here the Jets were 3rd, 2nd and 6th in least number of penalties per game.  (When Rex arrived the team went 13,18,18) He certainly is no legend but at least he called the shots, had discipline and ran a tight ship.  Unlike the the party ships of the last 7 or 8 years where the inmates had all the keys to the asylum.

 

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51 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Yep it was mostly trader mike but OP wanted to credit Mangini with all so I went with.

As far as who they picked yes there was some good ones and us Jet fans think they are all HOF types but if you look at the 3 years as a whole it was not good and 2008 started the depth issues we see today.

These same posters who want to anoint Mangini to GM status are quick to dismiss Macc and his drafts that so far are contributing through the 7th round.

Ya he found a CB1, OLT, C, and ILB that all played at a high level for a decade but did he find a Charone peake no he did not #hesuxks

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Ya he found a CB1, OLT, C, and ILB that all played at a high level for a decade but did he find a Charone peake no he did not #hesuxks

wellll 1st off the current crop of draftees have not had a decade yet to show whether they were good picks or not dont ya think? and from what I remember DBrick struggled his 1st year and Revis was not lights out either and held team hostage for all his tenure, Harris was part time until we traded away Vilma who went on to win a superbowl.

2ndly u conveniently left out Leo and others from current crop as if Mangini chose DBrick but Leo fell to Macc

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3 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

wellll 1st off the current crop of draftees have not had a decade yet to show whether they were good picks or not dont ya think? and from what I remember DBrick struggled his 1st year and Revis was not lights out either and held team hostage for all his tenure, Harris was part time until we traded away Vilma who went on to win a superbowl.

2ndly u conveniently left out Leo and others from current crop as if Mangini chose DBrick but Leo fell to Macc

And what if Maccagnan's draft in 2019 produces five hall of famers why didn't I put that in my matrix 

 

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2 hours ago, ECURB said:

Do you know what cars come with a spare tire? None.

It is an option at best now and most come with run flat tires or a tire inflation kit.

Just a pet peeve of mine when people get upset about spare tires. You don't need them.

Wrong I have 2 newer cars both came equipped with spare tires. 

Will an inflation kit fix a tire thats been cut on the sidewall by debris on the roadway or from hitting a curb. 

Roadside assistance shows up to help you with a blowout at 11pm from a pothole and you have no spare tire, then what. 

You do need them. 

Go back to the Kia dealer and spend the $290 it will be a good investment and peace of mind. 

Fact 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Eric Mangini was the last real 'head coach' this team had as opposed to being a DCoordinator who wanted to call the shots and get paid to be ahead coach but who didn't have a foggy clue how to do all the other stuff.

The years Mangini was here the Jets were 3rd, 2nd and 6th in least number of penalties per game.  (When Rex arrived the team went 13,18,18) He certainly is no legend but at least he called the shots, had discipline and ran a tight ship.  Unlike the the party ships of the last 7 or 8 years where the inmates had all the keys to the asylum.

 

And no playoff wins makes Mangini better then Rex??:wacko:

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And no playoff wins makes Mangini better then Rex??:wacko:

It's going to take a lot of years for me to forgive Rex for his total lack of understanding the concept of "team". He inherited probably the best team that a Jets head coach has ever walked in to. Then immediately began decimating the team by focusing only on his defense fetish (his wife has a tattoo of a big D and a little fence on her foot). Now that's funny.



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16 minutes ago, Jiminy Cricket said:


It's going to take a lot of years for me to forgive Rex for his total lack of understanding the concept of "team". He inherited probably the best team that a Jets head coach has ever walked in to. Then immediately began decimating the team by focusing only on his defense fetish (his wife has a tattoo of a big D and a little fence on her foot). Now that's funny.



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Is that the team he couldn't win a playoff game with?? Oh and Rex walked into a team with no QB a position we know doesn't matter at all.. BTW his 1st draft was all offense..

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