A pragmatist's guide to watching the 2017 Jets season

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

Is that the team he couldn't win a playoff game with?? Oh and Rex walked into a team with no QB a position we know doesn't matter at all.. BTW his 1st draft was all offense..

REx and his buddy Tanny were 100% responsible for going with a rookie QB.  If Rex (who was the alpha in that duo) had insisted on a solid VET game manager then the jets just might have got to a super bowl.  You can't absolve rex for being part of the duo that went after a rookie and then ignored that part of the team afterwards until it was too late.

[Savage69]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

REx and his buddy Tanny were 100% responsible for going with a rookie QB.  If Rex (who was the alpha in that duo) had insisted on a solid VET game manager then the jets just might have got to a super bowl.  You can't absolve rex for being part of the duo that went after a rookie and then ignored that part of the team afterwards until it was too late.

Rex was the Alpha because fans that hate him decided that.. He didn't want Hill but Tanny took him anyway.. Rex tried to talk Favre into coming back had Tanny not gave him his release he wouldn't have had any choice if he wanted to play again..

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Rex tried to talk Favre into coming back had Tanny not gave him his release he wouldn't have had any choice if he wanted to play again..

Go on...

[HessStation]

It's so weird that Brett Favre played here. That actually happened. 

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Go on...

All ears...

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

It's so weird that Brett Favre played here. That actually happened. 

Best QB to play here since Joe Namath. 

[HessStation]

28 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Best QB to play here since Joe Namath. 

The only real mark he left was an embarrassing dickpick. Is this team cursed?

[JetNation]

Tom Shane wrote this post in our forums and I felt it was worth sharing.
By T0mShane

So, we’re rapidly approaching that point where Jets beat reporters are going to need to drum up interest in what will be a bad, boring team so I thought I’d save us a bunch of time by pointing out the more productive storylines for the upcoming season:

1. Will the team function differently when Woody is shipped to England?

If there’s one common denominator in the Jets dysfunction over the past 15 years, it has been the presence of idiot-manboy Woody Johnson. Though not as flagrantly meddling as some league owners have been, the repetition of self-sabotage from regime to regime can only lead one to believe that Woody’s leadership (or lack thereof) is the thread that binds each failed attempt at a reset.

If and when Woody is confirmed as our bumbling ambassador to England, it will be interesting to see if and how it changes the organizational dynamics and forward presentation of the New York Jets franchise. Similar to the way the Yankees laid the foundation for success when George Steinbrenner was exiled from Major League Baseball for two years (allowing the adults in the organization to clean up his mess), there’s a similar chance for Mike Maccagnan to right the ship, or further sink it. Which brings us to…

2. Does a Maccagnan v Bowles civil war break out over the QB position?

With Woody potentially out of the way, it will be interesting to watch which one of Bowles or Maccagnan elevates himself to take control of the team. Ask yourself, who runs the Jets right now? Who’s in charge? The fact that it’s impossible to say who actually calls the shots with the Jets franchise is indicative of the greater institutional problem inherent to Woody Johnson’s ownership–a frayed and convoluted chain of command wherein nobody and everybody is responsible for everything and nothing.

It’s this vacuum that helped career weasels like Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum remain employed far longer than their resumes should have allowed, but it’s also repeatedly made it difficult to assess accountability when the team inevitably nosedives, which is why the same mistakes in hiring keep happening. You get Idzik because Woody never knew what Tannenbaum did incorrectly, and you get Maccagnan because Woody never knew what it was that Idzik screwed up. Similarly, you get Bowles, and Rex, and Mangini, and the next coach, because the roles of coach and GM overlap far too much with the Jets, so it’s never clear who to blame for what. Is the GM under performing because the coach sucks and can’t develop talent? Or are the coach’s hands tied because the GM forced Sanchez and/or Hackenberg on them?

As it relates to the current group, what happens if and when Todd Bowles insists on starting Josh McCown for weeks on end in the same way that he started Ryan Fitzpatrick for weeks on end? And when that results in yet another lost year, does Maccagnan feel pressure to intervene? It’s hard to imagine both men keeping their jobs if (as most predict) we end up slogging through another sub-6-win campaign. It’s in Maccagnan’s interest to have Hackenberg and the young players on the roster play significant snaps and show improvement, even in a bad year. But it’s in Bowles’ sole interest to win at all costs, try to get to eight wins, and save some face. Bowles would be wise to note that the last four guys to have his job are all out of the league right now. He, and Maccagnan, need to start thinking about how much they want to avoid selling insurance for a living.

3. Are Josh Allen, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Luke Falk, etc. any good?

Every year it’s presumed the next QB crop will be good and every year the Jets get a high draft pick, the QB crop is always trash. Well, here we are again, so it’s time to set the DVR to record some PAC-12 and Mountain West games. That is, unless you believe that the Jets have their QB of the future on their roster right now, which likely means that a “pragmatist’s guide” isn’t really for you.

4. What assets can you sell to a new coach in 2018?

In the event that Bowles is fired, what marketable pieces can we sell to a new coaching prospect next year? Right now, you’d lead with a top seven pick(!), lots of cap space(!), and that’s it. Unless Ardarius Stewart wildly over performs, or Hackenberg rises from the dead, it’s not a particularly appealing job to walk into, especially when you consider how poorly run the team has been for decades. As to the cap space, the good news is that we’ll have around $50 million dollars in space. The bad news is that 20 other teams will have over $25 mil in cap space. Currently, the Jets roster lacks a quarterback, pass rushers, cornerbacks, a left tackle, and viable threats at WR. Unfortunately, those five positions are coincidentally the five most expensive positions in all of football, so even having $50 mil at your disposal is relatively meaningless. It’ll buy you a shot at Kirk Cousins and Trumaine Johnson, with an outside shot at Nate Solder (if you’re willing to go into debt). So how can the Jets franchise market itself to a viable head coach? Complete control, a safety, and Ardarius Stewart?

5. Darron Lee, Ardarius Stewart, Quincy Enunwa, Jamal Adams, and Leonard Williams vs. Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Calvin Pryor, and Eric Decker for the soul of the team

The locker room was a burning sh*t-vessel where numerous rats could be seen jumping off the starboard side long before the season was over, and Maccagnan wisely went out of his way to change course this season by dumping poisonous veterans and importing <puke> “character guys” who seem to want to play football for a living. As foolish as it was for Bowles to hand the locker room over to guys like Brandon Marshall, Decker, and Revis, it remains to be seen how much doing so has compromised his standing among the players moving forward. As we’ve seen repeatedly in sports, it’s extremely difficult for a coach to survive once he’s lost a locker room, which Bowles clearly did last year. Rehabilitating his career will require a bit of amnesia amongst some players from last year, and a whole lot of unnatural influence coming from the rookies they just brought in. This element will become pretty evident once camp starts. The beat guys are going to look to goad guys like Sheldon and Wilkerson over their crap play last year, and Decker will be pummeled with Fitzpatrick and Brandon Marshall questions. Sheldon has already shown he’s dumb enough to take the bait. What remains to be seen is how guys like Adams, Lee, and Williams respond to the more established young veterans getting smacked around publicly in what will be a confrontational environment. For most of these players, it’ll be the first time in their lives that the fans and the media will be openly mocking them, and it’s going to be a culture shock. It’s hard to imagine Bowles guiding them through (and above) it, and it’s equally difficult to imagine Mo or Sheldon imparting any words of team-first wisdom that they’ll find helpful. The question is, is this next generation of player mentally tough enough to endure what they’re about to face, or does Manish get the best of them?

 

Be sure to stop by our forums and tell us what you think, we want to hear from you. Visit this thread; A Pragmatist’s Guide to Watching the 2017 Jets Season.

Click here to read the full story...

[slats]

21 hours ago, thadude said:

Mangini was better at player evaluation than as a coach

The 2008 draft was a complete bust. 

As a coach, the team was the most boring and uninspired I think I've ever seen - until Brett Favre came in and ignored all the coaching. But then he had his mystery injury, and they were boring and uninspired again.  

[Savage69]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

The 2008 draft was a complete bust. 

As a coach, the team was the most boring and uninspired I think I've ever seen - until Brett Favre came in and ignored all the coaching. But then he had his mystery injury, and they were boring and uninspired again.  

He had surgery on that mystery injury and went to the Vikes the next year and had 33 tds and 7 picks.. Tanny never should have released him from his contract..

[roscoeword]

didn't enjoy that Farve year so much - no fun rooting for old qb's who are passed their prime, even if it's Farve.  During that season, he wasn't better than Chad, who had a great year in Miami during that time. Can't understand the Farve love.  Never felt like he was a Jet, anymore than Jason Taylor was for that one year. Sick of old people's laudry, I want to root for my own laundry.

[Green DNA]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:12 AM, rangerous said:

3. people tend to forget that todd blackledge was the 2nd or 3rd qb taken in 83 and outside of elllway, kelllly, and marino the rest of the group was so-so.  

Yes but Blackledge was a Penn State QB and everyone knows that Penn State QB's are no good in the NFL

[JustInFudge]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:43 AM, T0mShane said:

So, we're rapidly approaching that point where Jets beat reporters are going to need to drum up interest in what will be a bad, boring team so I thought I'd save us a bunch of time by pointing out the more productive storylines for the upcoming season:

 

1. Will the team function differently when Woody is shipped to England?

If there's one common denominator in the Jets dysfunction over the past 15 years, it has been the presence of idiot-manboy Woody Johnson. Though not as flagrantly meddling as some league owners have been, the repetition of self-sabotage from regime to regime can only lead one to believe that Woody's leadership (or lack thereof) is the thread that binds each failed attempt at a reset.

If and when Woody is confirmed as our bumbling ambassador to England, it will be interesting to see if and how it changes the organizational dynamics and forward presentation of the New York Jets franchise. Similar to the way the Yankees laid the foundation for success when George Steinbrenner was exiled from Major League Baseball for two years (allowing the adults in the organization to clean up his mess), there's a similar chance for Mike Maccagnan to right the ship, or further sink it. Which brings us to...

 

2. Does a Maccagnan v Bowles civil war break out over the QB position?

With Woody potentially out of the way, it will be interesting to watch which one of Bowles or Maccagnan elevates himself to take control of the team. Ask yourself, who runs the Jets right now? Who's in charge? The fact that it's impossible to say who actually calls the shots with the Jets franchise is indicative of the greater institutional problem inherent to Woody Johnson's ownership--a frayed and convoluted chain of command wherein nobody and everybody is responsible for everything and nothing.

It's this vacuum that helped career weasels like Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum remain employed far longer than their resumes should have allowed, but it's also repeatedly made it difficult to assess accoutability when the team inevitably nosedives, which is why the same mistakes in hiring keep happening. You get Idzik because Woody never knew what Tannenbaum did incorrectly, and you get Maccagnan because Woody never knew what it was that Idzik screwed up. Similarly, you get Bowles, and Rex, and Mangini, and the next coach, because the roles of coach and GM overlap far too much with the Jets, so it's never clear who to blame for what. Is the GM underperforming because the coach sucks and can't develop talent? Or are the coach's hands tied because the GM forced Sanchez and/or Hackenberg on them? 

As it relates to the current group, what happens if and when Todd Bowles insists on starting Josh McCown for weeks on end in the same way that he started Ryan Fitzpatrick for weeks on end? And when that results in yet another lost year, does Maccagnan feel pressure to intervene? It's hard to imagine both men keeping their jobs if (as most predict) we end up slogging through another sub-6-win campaign. It's in Maccagnan's interest to have Hackenberg and the young players on the roster play significant snaps and show improvement, even in a bad year. But it's in Bowles' sole interest to win at all costs, try to get to eight wins, and save some face. Bowles would be wise to note that the last four guys to have his job are all out of the league right now. He, and Maccagnan, need to start thinking about how much they want to avoid selling insurance for a living.

 

3. Are Josh Allen, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Luke Falk, etc. any good?

Every year it's presumed the next QB crop will be good and every year the Jets get a high draft pick, the QB crop is always trash. Well, here we are again, so it's time to set the DVR to record some PAC-12 and Mountain West games. That is, unless you believe that the Jets have their QB of the future on their roster right now, which likely means that a "pragmatist's guide" isn't really for you.

 

4. What assets can you sell to a new coach in 2018?

In the event that Bowles is fired, what marketable pieces can we sell to a new coaching prospect next year? Right now, you'd lead with a top seven pick(!), lots of cap space(!), and that's it. Unless Ardarius Stewart wildly overperforms, or Hackenberg rises from the dead, it's not a particularly appealing job to walk into, especially when you consider how poorly run the team has been for decades. As to the cap space, the good news is that we'll have around $50 million dollars in space. The bad news is that 20 other teams will have over $25 mil in cap space. Currently, the Jets roster lacks a quarterback, pass rushers, cornerbacks, a left tackle, and viable threats at WR. Unfortunately, those five positions are coincidentally the five most expensive positions in all of football, so even having $50 mil at your disposal is relatively meaningless. It'll buy you a shot at Kirk Cousins and Trumaine Johnson, with an outside shot at Nate Solder (if you're willing to go into debt). So how can the Jets franchise market itself to a viable head coach? Complete control, a safety, and Ardarius Stewart?

 

5. Darron Lee, Ardarius Stewart, Quincy Enunwa, Jamal Adams, and Leonard Williams vs. Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Calvin Pryor, and Eric Decker for the soul of the team

 

The locker room was a burning sh*t-vessel where numerous rats could be seen jumping off the starboard side long before the season was over, and Maccagnan wisely went out of his way to change course this season by dumping poisonous veterans and importing <puke> "character guys" who seem to want to play football for a living. As foolish as it was for Bowles to hand the locker room over to guys like Brandon Marshall, Decker, and Revis, it remains to be seen how much doing so has compromised his standing among the players moving forward. As we've seen repeatedly in sports, it's extremely difficult for a coach to survive once he's lost a locker room, which Bowles clearly did last year. Rehabilitating his career will require a bit of amnesia amongst some players from last year, and a whole lot of unnatural influence coming from the rookies they just brought in. This element will become pretty evident once camp starts. The beat guys are going to look to goad guys like Sheldon and Wilkerson over their crap play last year, and Decker will be pummeled with Fitzpatrick and Brandon Marshall questions. Sheldon has already shown he's dumb enough to take the bait. What remains to be seen is how guys like Adams, Lee, and Williams respond to the more established young veterans getting smacked around publicly in what will be a confrontational environment. For most of these players, it'll be the first time in their lives that the fans and the media will be openly mocking them, and it's going to be a culture shock. It's hard to imagine Bowles guiding them through (and above) it, and it's equally difficult to imagine Mo or Sheldon imparting any words of team-first wisdom that they'll find helpful. The question is, is this next generation of player mentally tough enough to endure what they're about to face, or does Manish get the best of them? 

Fun!!!!  

1.  No. The Jets and stupidity are synonymous.  Doesnt matter who is in charge.  Stupidity follows.  It's contagious. Your brains go dumb the second the Jets employ you.

2.  These 2 bozo's have literally zero grip on how to handle the QB position.  The blind leading the blind.  We're legitimately 2 months away from deploying the exact same approach at the QB position that put the Jets in this sh*tty positoin to begin with.  It's almost as if the Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith entered the building with one of those little devices that clears your memory.  Because they're about to go right back into it the same sh*t and just keep ******* themselves over and digging the QB hole deeper.  And that's not even getting into the fact that Bowles doesnt actually report to Mac.

3.  I cant wait to see the extremely important mph recordings from the sweet seats in the stands at the combine reported by the super legitimate Ourlads Scouting Services.  Everybody's sweetheart Sam is an underwhelming athlete so it's going to be soooo juicy when he gets completely picked apart throughout the process.  But that wont be till 2018 because after a disappointing sophomore campaign he's forced to stay in school another year. So then you're looking at 2 goof balls and Lamar Jackson because the real steal of the NCAA wont come out till the following season, Jacob Eason.

4.  Are you kidding me with this question?  The next great head coach in waiting is obviously coming from the defensive coordinator ranks so why wouldnt they be salivating at ILB's and Safeties galore?  Plus, Leo is awesome. 

5.  Brandon Marshall is a cancer with 100 success rate.  So him gone is a huge step in the right direction.  Fitz is the oldest millennial on the planet, so him being gone is another huge step in the right direction.  And getting rid of the worst player/most expensive player on the team all the same time, is another huge step in the right direction. Decker is a self sh*t head that nobody gives 2 ****s about and Mo and Sheldon were not a problem before Brandon Marshall.  So, I think the new "leaders" will be able to insert themselves.  The real question is, can Todd Bowles actually function as a Head Coach and not an enabler?  

[rangerous]

41 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

Yes but Blackledge was a Penn State QB and everyone knows that Penn State QB's are no good in the NFL

shhh...don't tell anybody.

in all honesty, there don't appear to be any bona fide qb schools.  they all have some hits and misses.  i don't care much for usc qb's and i would be very careful with darnold. but alabama, outside of starr, namath , stabler, and todd really hasn't put out a really good qb either. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Green DNA said:

Yes but Blackledge was a Penn State QB and everyone knows that Penn State QB's are no good in the NFL

I don't think Penn State QBs busting are a thing. Penn State RBs busting was real before Larry Johnson. Between Hackenberg and Blackledge only 2 Penn State QBs were drafted and one was Kerry Collins. That's a much better rate than USC QBs for example where ten guys were drafted and they all stunk but Carson Palmer.

 

 

[thadude]

3 hours ago, slats said:

The 2008 draft was a complete bust. 

As a coach, the team was the most boring and uninspired I think I've ever seen - until Brett Favre came in and ignored all the coaching. But then he had his mystery injury, and they were boring and uninspired again.  

As a coach Mangini sucked.  His defensive playcalling was too conservative he basically made Matt Cassel $50 million.  Players hated him. He stunk up the joint in Cleveland 

 

But I think he can evaluate young talent which the current regime cannot do

 

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Savage69 said:

He had surgery on that mystery injury and went to the Vikes the next year and had 33 tds and 7 picks.. Tanny never should have released him from his contract..

We probably win the 2009 super bowl with Favre

[#27TheDominator]

On 5/27/2017 at 9:12 AM, rangerous said:

3. people tend to forget that todd blackledge was the 2nd or 3rd qb taken in 83 and outside of elllway, kelllly, and marino the rest of the group was so-so.  so odds that any of those 3 listed guys being good is slim.  i am of the opinion, based on the crop since leinart, that usc qb's just aren't that good when they get to the pros.  they are overhyped so teams need to beware of darnold.

Yep, outside of the three first ballot hall of famers the draft was so-so at QB.,

On 5/27/2017 at 9:22 AM, T0mShane said:

3. Right, but you can't just not draft a QB because Todd Blackledge and Matt Leinart sucked.

Maybe not, but we will be making fun of you for Leinart sucking for several more decades. 

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, Green DNA said:

Yes but Blackledge was a Penn State QB and everyone knows that Penn State QB's are no good in the NFL

I would take Kerry Collins in a minute on the Jets right now.

[varjet]

3 hours ago, roscoeword said:

didn't enjoy that Farve year so much - no fun rooting for old qb's who are passed their prime, even if it's Farve.  During that season, he wasn't better than Chad, who had a great year in Miami during that time. Can't understand the Farve love.  Never felt like he was a Jet, anymore than Jason Taylor was for that one year. Sick of old people's laudry, I want to root for my own laundry.

I can very much see an over-the-hill but formerly elite QB in the Jets' picture.  It is the Jet's way.

It did not make sense this year for the Jets because the roster was too bad, there was not alot of gap room, and the options for that path were not really desirable:  Cutler and Romo.

But every year declining QBs do get freed up, and many go to final flirtations with goodness with other teams.

This can definitely be how the Jets go if they think the roster is othewise competitive.  It will be too long since they have sniffed the playoffs.  The only way they DON'T do that is if Hack looks like he can get them to the playoffs next year.  

So I think the QBs next year are either Veteran, Hack, Draft Pick or Hack, Draft PIck, other.

[thadude]

17 hours ago, HessStation said:

The only real mark he left was an embarrassing dickpick. Is this team cursed?

Yes but did you see who he sent it to?