Christian Hackenberg deserves patience from Jets fans

[dbatesman]

elite upside

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

elite upside

behold: my list of every qb prospect in history with elite upside--

 

(I will wait until you free up some RAM)

[SickJetFan]

Hackenberg takes it on the chin – but should he have?Dan Leberfeld

 

Did “Hackenberg hit reporters with passes twice” at Jets OTA practices?

I didn’t see it, so I will defer to NJ.com on this one.

I was there for every minute of the three OTA practices, but I didn’t see it.

It was probably a couple of passes that went of bounds on the media sideline.

But what is sad is this story has gone viral, and websites and message boards all over the internet are destroying the kid.

Does Hackenberg need to improve his accuracy? Absolutely. So do Deshaun Watson, Jared Goff and Blake Bortles. A lot of young quarterbacks do.

Are the two passes that went out of bounds and hit reporters, according to NJ.com, illustrative of his accuracy problem. I’m not sure. There are going to be incompletions in spring practices. Perhaps this anecdote is a bit hyperbolic and people are blowing it out of proportion.

The Jets have a new offense, a lot of new receivers; Jets quarterbacks and receivers are still working on getting on the same page. A lot of factors go into spring practice incompletions.

This story is a perfect example of why so many coaches don’t want reporters at spring practices. This is a time for teaching, learning and growing. It’s not a time for stats and style points.

Congratulations to NJ.com for all the traffic this story has created.

I guess that is the bottom line these days.

Were there some positive things written about Hackenberg in this story? Yes.

But that’s like asking, “Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

All people are talking about are the two passes that hit reporters.

*****To subscribe to Jets Confidential Magazine, click below, or call 1-800-932-4557 (M-F, 9-5).

[Pcola]

2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

Hackenberg takes it on the chin – but should he have?Dan Leberfeld

 

Did “Hackenberg hit reporters with passes twice” at Jets OTA practices?

I didn’t see it, so I will defer to NJ.com on this one.

I was there for every minute of the three OTA practices, but I didn’t see it.

It was probably a couple of passes that went of bounds on the media sideline.

But what is sad is this story has gone viral, and websites and message boards all over the internet are destroying the kid.

Does Hackenberg need to improve his accuracy? Absolutely. So do Deshaun Watson, Jared Goff and Blake Bortles. A lot of young quarterbacks do.

Are the two passes that went out of bounds and hit reporters, according to NJ.com, illustrative of his accuracy problem. I’m not sure. There are going to be incompletions in spring practices. Perhaps this anecdote is a bit hyperbolic and people are blowing it out of proportion.

The Jets have a new offense, a lot of new receivers; Jets quarterbacks and receivers are still working on getting on the same page. A lot of factors go into spring practice incompletions.

This story is a perfect example of why so many coaches don’t want reporters at spring practices. This is a time for teaching, learning and growing. It’s not a time for stats and style points.

Congratulations to NJ.com for all the traffic this story has created.

I guess that is the bottom line these days.

Were there some positive things written about Hackenberg in this story? Yes.

But that’s like asking, “Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”

All people are talking about are the two passes that hit reporters.

*****To subscribe to Jets Confidential Magazine, click below, or call 1-800-932-4557 (M-F, 9-5).

Look, Dan Leberfeld is a great Jets fan.  I used to get Jets Confidential when I was living in Iceland for three years.  But, he usually is over the  top with his optimism of the Jets.  And while yes, looking at this one article in question about one day of practice, would be poor journalism in creating such negativity on a Jets prospect.

But when you look at Hack's body of work, it's probably pretty accurate.  At this point, Hackenberg's ceiling is NFL short term back up.  More likely, when McCown goes to IR sometime in September, the Jets will sign a vet off the street to prevent Hack from ever having to step on the field.  

I wanted to be wrong on Hack.  I'm sure he is a great kid.  But kidding yourself with blind faith isn't going to do anything but lead to a huge disappointment.

I honestly believe the Hackenberg pick was Woody's mandate.  There's no other explanation for the roster purge.  They tried to catch lightning in the bottle with him and it blew up in their faces.  Now Woody will look like a meddlesome Owner if he fires Macc or Bowles after forcing the roster purge.  If Hack's selection was made by Macc, then a true house cleaning is coming at the conclusion of this dreadful season.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Hack was benched the whole year, by design, to work on mechanics. Did anyone expect that to all be cured by now? If anyone expects Hack to come out be in the top 2/3 of the league in completion pct, they'd be nuts. The question is whether, when he gets his chance, he can make enough plays to offset the inconsistency. If he comes out and just looks awful in exhibition games, then that's that. I am not a Hack supporter, but I am willing to give him a chance and not over-analyze every throw in OTAs to WRs that may be bagging groceries in a few weeks. 

[SickJetFan]

34 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Look, Dan Leberfeld is a great Jets fan.  I used to get Jets Confidential when I was living in Iceland for three years.  But, he usually is over the  top with his optimism of the Jets.  And while yes, looking at this one article in question about one day of practice, would be poor journalism in creating such negativity on a Jets prospect.

But when you look at Hack's body of work, it's probably pretty accurate.  At this point, Hackenberg's ceiling is NFL short term back up.  More likely, when McCown goes to IR sometime in September, the Jets will sign a vet off the street to prevent Hack from ever having to step on the field.  

I wanted to be wrong on Hack.  I'm sure he is a great kid.  But kidding yourself with blind faith isn't going to do anything but lead to a huge disappointment.

I honestly believe the Hackenberg pick was Woody's mandate.  There's no other explanation for the roster purge.  They tried to catch lightning in the bottle with him and it blew up in their faces.  Now Woody will look like a meddlesome Owner if he fires Macc or Bowles after forcing the roster purge.  If Hack's selection was made by Macc, then a true house cleaning is coming at the conclusion of this dreadful season.

Personally I see Petty beating out McCown and Hack but I guess you miss the point....He was not preaching any kind of blind faith towards Hack.  In fact the point had little to do with Hack at all.

[SickJetFan]

 

I gotta say...That guys ears are FKG AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, johnnysd said:

It's sort of irrelevant. He is what we have and he DOES have elite upside and he DOES have a lot of things that need improving. Only way we will know is to play him. You simply have to play him. Starting McCown accomplishes nothing except further muddying the QB picture and setting the QB situation back even more.

This came up a couple of weeks ago. The idea that he can pan out or not, as being 1 of 2 results, doesn't therefore mean it's a 50-50 likelihood of good or bad. Never mind the binary notion of either the present uselessness or perfection-elite, which is more what I was responding to. It seems he's not halfway to halfway to halfway to that being a real discussion (or one that doesn't involve rubbing genie lamps). He's tall, can throw hard, and once upon a time as a teenager understood O'Brien's offense. It would seem there's a bit more to it.

You're also looking at the future of the whole team based on developing Hackenberg or not. Really, the CS can most definitely know he's not elite without playing him in any live games. Also it's not true there's no benefit to playing McCown over him. Dumb as the Six Million Dollar Man's pickup was, if Hackenberg is that useless, they could still better develop their many young receivers for the next guy they draft with McCown (particularly with Enunwa as the most experienced veteran and 2 more rookie WRs this year). McCown isnt a good NFL QB, but he is an NFL QB. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Pcola said:

Look, Dan Leberfeld is a great Jets fan.  I used to get Jets Confidential when I was living in Iceland for three years.  But, he usually is over the  top with his optimism of the Jets.  And while yes, looking at this one article in question about one day of practice, would be poor journalism in creating such negativity on a Jets prospect.

But when you look at Hack's body of work, it's probably pretty accurate.  At this point, Hackenberg's ceiling is NFL short term back up.  More likely, when McCown goes to IR sometime in September, the Jets will sign a vet off the street to prevent Hack from ever having to step on the field.  

I wanted to be wrong on Hack.  I'm sure he is a great kid.  But kidding yourself with blind faith isn't going to do anything but lead to a huge disappointment.

I honestly believe the Hackenberg pick was Woody's mandate.  There's no other explanation for the roster purge.  They tried to catch lightning in the bottle with him and it blew up in their faces.  Now Woody will look like a meddlesome Owner if he fires Macc or Bowles after forcing the roster purge.  If Hack's selection was made by Macc, then a true house cleaning is coming at the conclusion of this dreadful season.

You had me until the last paragraph. The only one with even an indirect tie to Hackenberg is Maccagnan. The whitewashing of Maccagnan's tenure has reached a new level. 

How about the reason for the roster purge being exactly what it looks like, combined with a believable leak: they're so far away that they were going to at least give this year to Maccagnan's pick Hackenberg (or his other pick in Petty). They both looked so bad in OTAs that now neither look even worthy of bothering, so it was figured the Decker/Harris $14m of cap room would be of more use next year or beyond than in this throwaway year.

Prior to that, there's no evidence the rest of the "purge" was on anyone other than Maccagnan. And really the prior "purge" only consisted of dumping expensive veterans who were all well past their primes and weren't worth their compensation (Marshall, Revis, Mangold, Clady, Giacomini). Which did you want to keep?

Woody generally looks bad because he is bad, but that doesn't mean the other two aren't as bad themselves. If he stepped in to order dumping those last two, it's not one of his worst moments as owner.

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You had me until the last paragraph. The only one with even an indirect tie to Hackenberg is Maccagnan. The whitewashing of Maccagnan's tenure has reached a new level. 

How about the reason for the roster purge being exactly what it looks like, combined with a believable leak: they're so far away that they were going to at least give this year to Maccagnan's pick Hackenberg (or his other pick in Petty). They both looked so bad in OTAs that now neither look even worthy of bothering, so it was figured the Decker/Harris $14m of cap room would be of more use next year or beyond than in this throwaway year.

Prior to that, there's no evidence the rest of the "purge" was on anyone other than Maccagnan. And really the prior "purge" only consisted of dumping expensive veterans who were all well past their primes and weren't worth their compensation (Marshall, Revis, Mangold, Clady, Giacomini). Which did you want to keep?

Woody generally looks bad because he is bad, but that doesn't mean the other two aren't as bad themselves. If he stepped in to order dumping those last two, it's not one of his worst moments as owner.

Agree, I blame Woody for a lot of things, but Hackenberg, for better or worse is 100% on Maccagnan.  High probability of for worse.

[Scott Dierking]

7 hours ago, Pcola said:

it's probably pretty accurate.  

The foundation of journalism excellence.

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They both looked so bad in OTAs that now neither look even worthy of bothering,

It is nice that in the same post you use the term "whitewashing of Macc", you also make a statement on performance at OTA's of which you have no basis of evaluation.

My fine sir, would that be a whitewash also?

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It is nice that in the same post you use the term "whitewashing of Macc", you also make a statement on performance at OTA's of which you have no basis of evaluation.

My fine sir, would that be a whitewash also?

Not even a little bit, madam.  

It would be making a judgment based on the reporting available.

Over a week ago, prior to the big, grabber-headline of Hackenberg allegedly hitting reporters with 2 passes and supposedly throwing an additional 6 passes right at defenders and still more sailing over the heads of open receivers (all while wearing a red no-contact jersey and without a serious pass rush), what was reported was that the competition among the three wasn't even close (i.e. the great Josh McCown by a landslide).

If you can find a contrary wealth of reports, from non-team representatives, that suggest both - or either - made clear and obvious positive strides on the field from the prior season, I would love to read them all. It is in my obvious interest as a Jets fan to see either/both of them succeed, no matter how pessimistic I am with regard to this likelihood. 

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It is in my obvious interest as a Jets fan to see either/both of them succeed,

Lol

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

Lol

You spelled "agenda" wrong.

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You spelled "agenda" wrong.

My spelling is so bad, not even spell check can fix it. But in fairness to me, English is my second language 

[kdels62]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not even a little bit, madam.  

It would be making a judgment based on the reporting available.

Over a week ago, prior to the big, grabber-headline of Hackenberg allegedly hitting reporters with 2 passes and supposedly throwing an additional 6 passes right at defenders and still more sailing over the heads of open receivers (all while wearing a red no-contact jersey and without a serious pass rush), what was reported was that the competition among the three wasn't even close (i.e. the great Josh McCown by a landslide).

If you can find a contrary wealth of reports, from non-team representatives, that suggest both - or either - made clear and obvious positive strides on the field from the prior season, I would love to read them all. It is in my obvious interest as a Jets fan to see either/both of them succeed, no matter how pessimistic I am with regard to this likelihood. 

It is still speculation. Just because you have some 2nd hand information that is inconclusive and based on a small sample size doesnt make your conclusion any more speculative than others. Stating that the two young guys looked not good is "fact" but stating anything beyond that isn't.

For instance the cause of the release of Harris could be that Davis is considered and upgrade. I have evidence but only so much of that. The same goes for Decker who looked good but so did ASJ and Leggett and maybe the Jets feel like they have an over abundance of receiving options.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

It is still speculation. Just because you have some 2nd hand information that is inconclusive and based on a small sample size doesnt make your conclusion any more speculative than others. Stating that the two young guys looked not good is "fact" but stating anything beyond that isn't.

For instance the cause of the release of Harris could be that Davis is considered and upgrade. I have evidence but only so much of that. The same goes for Decker who looked good but so did ASJ and Leggett and maybe the Jets feel like they have an over abundance of receiving options.

2nd hand information from people who were actually there >>>>>>>>>> no information at all

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

 

I gotta say...That guys ears are FKG AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

"Yeah, but it hit the reporter *on a bounce*" is the best. I love this team. 

[thadude]

7 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

 

I gotta say...That guys ears are FKG AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

Kim Jones is such a mom.  "Hackenberg is terrible and his on a check down was so off it almost hit me in the face but he's learning guys!"

[thadude]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

"Yeah, but it hit the reporter *on a bounce*" is the best. I love this team. 

The crazy thing is reportedly Petty has looked even worse.

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

It is nice that in the same post you use the term "whitewashing of Macc", you also make a statement on performance at OTA's of which you have no basis of evaluation.

My fine sir, would that be a whitewash also?

Give it up Scott.  Sperm is the most knowledgeable poster on this site by far.  Defending an obvious BUST qb is not a cause you should be taking up with him

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

"Yeah, but it hit the reporter *on a bounce*" is the best. I love this team. 

A single quote that defines fifty years of Jets fandom.

[Pcola]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You had me until the last paragraph. The only one with even an indirect tie to Hackenberg is Maccagnan. The whitewashing of Maccagnan's tenure has reached a new level. 

How about the reason for the roster purge being exactly what it looks like, combined with a believable leak: they're so far away that they were going to at least give this year to Maccagnan's pick Hackenberg (or his other pick in Petty). They both looked so bad in OTAs that now neither look even worthy of bothering, so it was figured the Decker/Harris $14m of cap room would be of more use next year or beyond than in this throwaway year.

Prior to that, there's no evidence the rest of the "purge" was on anyone other than Maccagnan. And really the prior "purge" only consisted of dumping expensive veterans who were all well past their primes and weren't worth their compensation (Marshall, Revis, Mangold, Clady, Giacomini). Which did you want to keep?

Woody generally looks bad because he is bad, but that doesn't mean the other two aren't as bad themselves. If he stepped in to order dumping those last two, it's not one of his worst moments as owner.

I just have a hard time believing Woody would allow a complete roster tear down.  In the 18 years he has owned the team, we have never gone into a season where there was zero hope of being competitive.

When Macc and Bowles were brought in, it was all about "competitive rebuild" bull crap.  And arguably, with the team we had last year, with better QB and secondary play, we could have competed and been mediocre.  That's usually Woody's minimum requirement.

Woody has meddled before with the Tebow and Burress signings.  My thought is that the only way Macc and Bowles could persuade Woody to not only burn this roster to the ground, but to also give some kind of assurance that they have some job security afterwards, is that Woody meddled too much in the last two off seasons, everything he did backfired, and Macc told him enough is enough.

We know the Revis signing was all Woody.  I have a hard time believing that someone with Macc's scouting experience, along with his hand picked staff, could be so wrong with the Hack pick.  I think Woody met Hack, liked him personally, and read too many articles from his freshman year and mandated the draft pick.

I agree that the roster purge was all on Macc.  But the last two cuts happened because of Woody.  Either because Woody knows we absolutely need a QB in next year's draft and figured that a Harris led defense might be good enough for a couple of wins and didn't want to risk it.  Or, and this is even worse, Woody didn't sell enough season tickets and decided to cut as much costs as possible because he is a greedy, careless, POS.

[thadude]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

A single quote that defines fifty years of Jets fandom.

Didn't she also say the reporter was able to deflect Hack's pass?

 

[dbatesman]

13 minutes ago, thadude said:

Didn't she also say the reporter was able to deflect Hack's pass?

 

That reporter is now our #1 CB

[NoBowles]

I've never seen a fan base so excited to hear negative news about a QB prospect as this fan base. All while clinging to the , well of course we hope he's good mantra.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I've never seen a fan base so excited to hear negative news about a QB prospect as this fan base. All while clinging to the , well of course we hope he's good mantra.

:world-eating asteroid comes streaking toward earth:

34% of population: "oh look at all the silly agendas being fulfilled with confirmation bias"

[bitonti]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You had me until the last paragraph. The only one with even an indirect tie to Hackenberg is Maccagnan. The whitewashing of Maccagnan's tenure has reached a new level. 

How about the reason for the roster purge being exactly what it looks like, combined with a believable leak: they're so far away that they were going to at least give this year to Maccagnan's pick Hackenberg (or his other pick in Petty). They both looked so bad in OTAs that now neither look even worthy of bothering, so it was figured the Decker/Harris $14m of cap room would be of more use next year or beyond than in this throwaway year.

Prior to that, there's no evidence the rest of the "purge" was on anyone other than Maccagnan.  

2

I'll present some circumstantial evidence:

The 85% of the cap salary floor is not 85% every year, but over a 4 year period.

In theory, a team could spend 70% in year 1, and 120% in year 4, if they spread it out correctly. 

The last period was 2013-2016. Through that lens, the short term Revis and Fitz deals make a tiny bit more sense. The Jets had to spend that money in 2016. 

2017-2020 is the current period. This was always going to be a purge year and the only reason to ignore those cycles and spend the same every season is if the team has a real shot. Which this one probably doesn't. 

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I've never seen a fan base so excited to hear negative news about a QB prospect as this fan base. All while clinging to the , well of course we hope he's good mantra.

there's an aspect of I told you so ism there. The guy's name is Hackenberg. Like the word Hack is literally in his name. Who thought that was a great idea? 

The fans believe they could do a better job and after a certain point, who is to say they are wrong. 

[NoBowles]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there's an aspect of I told you so ism there. The guy's name is Hackenberg. Like the word Hack is literally in his name. Who thought that was a great idea? 

The fans believe they could do a better job and after a certain point, who is to say they are wrong. 

Predicting a QB drafted in the second half of the 2nd round, is not going to be good, isn't exactly earth shattering. Particularly when many of the giddy, were pounding the table for Lynch in the first round....

[NoBowles]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

:world-eating asteroid comes streaking toward earth:

34% of population: "oh look at all the silly agendas being fulfilled with confirmation bias"

Is Woody the world eating asteroid, or Mac?

[dbatesman]

Right on schedule:

1. #actually, Hackenberg is good

2. lmao here come the haters with their agendas

3. yeah so maybe Hackenberg is bad but that doesn't mean people who said he would be bad were right

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Predicting a QB drafted in the second half of the 2nd round, is not going to be good, isn't exactly earth shattering. Particularly when many of the giddy, were pounding the table for Lynch in the first round....

 

35 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I've never seen a fan base so excited to hear negative news about a QB prospect as this fan base. All while clinging to the , well of course we hope he's good mantra.

After 15 years of having Accoutemp GMs, Maccagnan--a career scout--was going to be different. There is no proof of that, and Hackenberg--who was that rare player whom even dipsh*t contrarian draft analysts wouldn't touch--is Exhibit A in the case against Maccagnan providing any value at all as an evaluator or team builder,

[flgreen]

On 6/1/2017 at 4:31 PM, Dcat said:

It surely didn't help that Chan Gailey had no interest in developing, let alone starting a rookie this late in his career as an OC and coach.  Gailey wanted no part of developing Hack.  Or anyone for that matter.  Another terrible coaching hire by Bowles, Woody,et al.  Gailey was the worst choice for a team trying to develop a QB.  Gailey knew he'd only hang around a short while so AFAIC, Chan Gailey didn't perform his duties as OC the way it should have been.  Selfish prick. So glad he is gone.

Got the feeling that Gailey was OK with a GOOD rookie QB to develop, but wanted no part of a rookie QB who he had to "reteach everything from scratch."

The guy to call "selfish prick" is the guy who actually makes the decisions who plays, and decided not to give Hack any reps.  You know the guy who announced that an unsigned player would be the starter in December.