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Calvin Pryor traded to Browns for Demario Davis: MERGED


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I wish the majority of Jet fans would stop being "two faced" for just a minute.  You can't complain for years about how awful Pryor is then complain when you don't get a high draft pick back for him

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14 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

Current Jets Player Most Positively Impacted By Trade:

I think Rontez Miles was always making the team whether Pryor was here or not, so that leaves promising youngsters Doug Middleton & Ronald Martin and newcomer Corey White fighting for the last safety spot.  I think Middleton has the most upside, but with 2 rookies starting, the more experienced Corey White might just end up making the roster and contributing in the last safety spot.

Current Jets Player Most Negatively Impacted By Trade:

Assuming the Jets don't cut David Harris, which I suppose is possible,  Julian Stanford looks like he will be the odd man out at inside linebacker. It might even be possible the Jets only keep 3 ILBs in which case Bruce Carter might also be on the way out.

Rontez Miles has been better than Calvin Pryor since the day he arrived but something about competition and the best player will play.

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your logic is that it is a good move because they can cut Davis without a cap hit, but you want to credit them with a potential comp pick for paying the guy $4M?  I'm willing to bet any team would prefer a $4M player to any comp pick.

Shades of Whofans saying McCown was a good signing because he would be less of an impediment to Petty or Hackenberg taking the starting job than Cutler would have been. 

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Just now, dbatesman said:

Shades of Whofans saying McCown was a good signing because he would be less of an impediment to Petty or Hackenberg taking the starting job than Cutler would have been. 

Wasnt he also defending the accumulation of late round picks by trading back that suddenly arent worth anything and are basically lotto balls?  

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7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Shades of Whofans saying McCown was a good signing because he would be less of an impediment to Petty or Hackenberg taking the starting job than Cutler would have been. 

McCown is a better fit for the Jets than Cutler.  Regardless I hope Hackenberg is the starter this season.

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2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Somewhere out there, there is a mediocre, undersized ILB that is the lynchpin to Bowles defense working... we must find him, and no price is too high to pay for him.

#makeithappenbiggggggmaacccccccccccccc

did you ever hear of depth? you can't have a probowl player at ever position.

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

FUN!!!!!  

2015: Mac passed on the NFL sack leader from 2016, Vic Beasley.  Preston Smith has 13 sacks already in the NFL, Mac took Devin Smith 1 spot before him.  Frank Clark has 13 sacks, he was taken late 2nd.  DGB, Funchess, Tyler Locket and Tevin Coleman were also on the board.   Danielle Hunter has 18 sacks in his career, he was selected 12 spots after Maudlin.  David Johnson was also on the board.   Bryce Petty was taken over Trevor Siemian.  Jamison Crowder, Steffon Digs Jay Ajayi were on the board. 

2016: Mac passed on Lynch for Darron Lee, the better players at that position, Deion Jones was taken directly after Christian Hackenberg.  Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brisset and Cody Kessler, were on the board. Pass rusher with 8 sacks his rookie year, Yannick Ngakoue was on the board. The Jets took Brandon Shell over Tyrek Hill. 

2017: correct me if I'm wrong, were Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes on the board in the 1st when the Jets took a Safety?

This starts out strong then fizzles a bit. Might as well go through every player taken before Brady in 2000

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Cimini:

The New York Jets' offseason youth movement has claimed another victim ... and he's only 24 years old.

Calvin Pryor was traded Thursday to the Cleveland Browns, which tells us the Jets aren't making decisions based solely on birth certificates -- as was the case with old guys Darrelle Revis, Nick Mangold and Brandon Marshall.

This massive rebuilding project also is an attitude movement and a production movement -- and Pryor, the Jets' 2014 first-round pick, camp up short in both areas.

Adios to the Louisville Slugger. Have fun in Cleveland.

Paying attention, Sheldon Richardson?

In reality, Pryor's fate was sealed during the draft, when the Jets used their first two picks on safeties, Jamal Adams and Marcus Maye. Pryor, a safety who managed only two interceptions and two forced fumbles in 44 career games, was toast.

The Jets like what they've seen in early practices from Adams and Maye, and the plan is to make them opening day starters.

It took a month, but the Jets finally found a team willing to pick up Pryor's $1.6 million guaranteed salary for 2017. Hey, when you're looking for a salary dump, just call the Browns. The Jets still have a $1.1 million dead charge, but this was a winning move for them from a cap standpoint. If they had released Pryor -- that was the plan if they found no takers -- they would've had to eat his salary.

In return, they get a familiar face -- linebacker Demario Davis, who has a non-guaranteed $3.7 million salary in the final year of his contract. This gives the Jets plenty of flexibility. In theory, they could cut Davis before the season and incur no cap charge.

From a football standpoint, they have three starting-caliber inside linebackers with David Harris, Darron Lee and Davis, who played with the Jets from 2012-15. He overlapped one season with coach Todd Bowles in 2015, so he knows the system and it should be an easy transition.

It should be noted that Davis basically lost his starting job to Erin Henderson late in the 2015 season, so it would be a stretch to think he'll make a triumphant return as a starter. Harris and Lee remain the projected starters. Davis can be a depth player and he also has the athleticism to help in third-down packages. It makes no sense to pay $3.7 million for a backup inside linebacker, so Davis is no lock to make the team.

The Jets are taking a risk by leaning so heavily on two rookies at safety -- the most cerebral position in the secondary -- but they made up their minds on draft day to start the future right now. They believe Adams and Maye have star potential. Suddenly, depth is an issue at safety, but that can be fixed in the coming months. The overriding message here is that no one --not even someone picked in the first round -- gets a free pass.

Pryor, hailed by former coach Rex Ryan as a player with Jack Tatum-like skills, didn't make any impact plays. He'd blow up a ball carrier every so often, but he also missed too many tackles and was terrible in coverage. He failed to live up to his draft pedigree; he was 18th overall in 2014. The Jets were hoping for Odell Beckham Jr. (12th overall) but wound up with an undersized strong safety with marginal ball skills. Oops.

Pryor's attitude also soured people in the organization. They felt he had an inflated opinion of himself and didn't buy into Bowles' program. Look at it this way: They could've easily kept him as a backup -- salary-wise, it was doable -- but they wanted him out of the locker room ASAP.

They were curious to see how he'd respond to the Adams and Maye additions, and when he didn't show up for the first day of OTA practices ... well, it confirmed their impression of him. On Tuesday, he was demoted to third string.

Bowles downplayed the significance, spewing some coachspeak. But he also said, "If anybody's going to cry about somebody drafting somebody at their spot and not go out there and play, this is not the league for them."

Or the team.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/69079/jets-motivation-for-trading-calvin-pryor-salary-and-attitude-dump

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6 minutes ago, HessStation said:

This starts out strong then fizzles a bit. Might as well go through every player taken before Brady in 2000

It only fizzles out because you havent seen Watson or Mahomes.  It was a silly exercise but homey was acting like Mac hasnt had any chance to take a pass rusher or a QB which is just all sorts of wrong.

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11 minutes ago, loluchka80 said:

did you ever hear of depth? you can't have a probowl player at ever position.

Being that this is a statement I have championed for years, I'm assuming sarcasm?

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6 minutes ago, HessStation said:

This is probably a good time to mention this team would look drastically better if I were GM over the last 10 years.

There's a Trump meme for this.

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28 minutes ago, JiF said:

FUN!!!!!  

2015: Mac passed on the NFL sack leader from 2016, Vic Beasley.  Preston Smith has 13 sacks already in the NFL, Mac took Devin Smith 1 spot before him.  Frank Clark has 13 sacks, he was taken late 2nd.  DGB, Funchess, Tyler Locket and Tevin Coleman were also on the board.   Danielle Hunter has 18 sacks in his career, he was selected 12 spots after Maudlin.  David Johnson was also on the board.   Bryce Petty was taken over Trevor Siemian.  Jamison Crowder, Steffon Digs Jay Ajayi were on the board. 

2016: Mac passed on Lynch for Darron Lee, the better players at that position, Deion Jones was taken directly after Christian Hackenberg.  Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brisset and Cody Kessler, were on the board. Pass rusher with 8 sacks his rookie year, Yannick Ngakoue was on the board. The Jets took Brandon Shell over Tyrek Hill. 

2017: correct me if I'm wrong, were Deshaun Watson and Pat Mahomes on the board in the 1st when the Jets took a Safety?

So lets get this straight - you are including Dorial Green Beckham who is about to be waived after TC, Devin Funchess who has a total of 54 career catches, and tyler locket as guys we passed on. 

You complain we dont have a QB, but list WRs and RBs that we passed on.  So I guess you dont count Robby Anderson who was undrafted, Mac cant be responsible for finding him right?

Now on to your exceptional analysis of 2016 - we passed on Paxton Lynch, who in addition to being criticized for poor work ethic, did what exactly as a rookie?  Cody Kessler and Jacoby Brisset - world beaters, man I wish we had them competing to be our 2017 starter.

There are 2 legitimate arguments in your entire analysis that arent cherry picking one guy here and there that happen to have had a good year, and if you think 20-20 hindsight works, then im not surprised you keep up the same inane argument.  

1.  Could we have taken Beasley over Leo, absolutely and quite possibly it would have been better for us to have done so with the amount of DLineman we have, however Leo is arguably a better player, so its a pretty tough argument to make that Mac should have drafted Beasley.

2.  Dak Prescott - the whole league missed on him, so again, 20-20 hindsight.

Other then that, the next time an offensive coordinator is afraid of Preston Smith or Yannik Ngaokoue will be the first time.

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26 minutes ago, JiF said:

Wasnt he also defending the accumulation of late round picks by trading back that suddenly arent worth anything and are basically lotto balls?  

 

24 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I believe so, yes.

I already called him out on this. Come on guys. #BIGMAC4LYFE

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51 minutes ago, BCJet said:

You're right - the jets should invest more in positions that correlate to wins.  I wonder if there were any QBs or edge rushers available in a trade for Calvin Pryor, I mean we could have thrown in sheldon richardson too, what a dumbass Mac is.

Do we need a QB to win - absolutely, was there one at 6 who could do that, NO.  Would it be great to have been able to draft Von Miller 2.0 at #6 this year - would have been awesome.  But guess what, those players werent available.  

Until people can point to QBs or Edge Rushers that Mac has passed on in favor of other spots, like safety or ILB, then arguing that he isnt finding those players is like shouting at the wind.  Mac has drafted OLB/edge players in the middle rounds in each draft (Mauldin, Jenkins and Donahue).  He picked Petty and Hackenberg in the mid rounds in 2 of the drafts.  If he hits on one in each of those position groups, then he will be a genius - if not, he may not be around anymore, but you cant draft aaron rogers or von miller if aaron rogers and miller arent on the board

Oh good... hyperbole because you can't actually defend the stance.  Literally no one is expecting us to add great talent thanks to this specific trade.  People would have preferred a 7th round pick instead of a guy that we intentionally let go not long ago.

Sure, Von Miller may not have been available at 6, but 6 does have some value, and there were options besides taking a safety, and then doubling down by taking another safety.  It's ludicrous to suggest that the Jets had no choice but to add two safeties.  They could have traded down, even for not perfect chart value, and added talent in more valuable positions.  As as for edge rushers, the argument isn't that you need to have Von Miller, great as that may be, it's that an above average edge rusher is significantly more valuable than two safeties.  And, I'm okay with them not taking a QB this year, but, if Mahomes or Watson turn out to be even above average, anything short of Brian Dawkins/Ed Reed is a disaster of a pick in Jamal Adams, and if either turns out to be top 10, Jamal Adams, no matter how good he is, was a terrible pick.

I don't know the specifics of the edge rushers in this draft, but if you're going to tell me that Myles Garret is the only good one, I think that's probably a reach.  We had two high picks, we used both of them on one of the lowest value positions on the field.  The year before that, we used our 1st again on one of the lowest value positions on the field, and on a player who wasn't very good.  We also used it on a QB who needed to be red-shirted, and who required us to bring in Josh McCown in year two, who by all early reports is by far and away, the best QB out there.

3 years in, and this team is looking at the #1 overall pick, with no QB, no WR, no edge rusher, no cb, and no left tackle, no RB, but somehow, we're supposed to believe this is a good thing.  Sorry, not buying it.

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2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

3 years in, and this team is looking at the #1 overall pick, with no QB, no WR, no edge rusher, no cb, and no left tackle, no RB, but somehow, we're supposed to believe this is a good thing.  Sorry, not buying it.

This.

We've spent the last 3 years basically repeating the previous 3 years. First round DL, first round S, both to replace players of the same positions taken at the same time. I like the guys we've gotten, but if that's what the draft hands you, then you find means to improve elsewhere, you don't just rest on your laurels and run in place.

This franchise is a model of the way corporations **** common folks. Give them a big heaping dose of hopefulness - brand it as a nostalgia or change, or whatever - let them debate polarizing talking points amongst themselves while never actually pointing to the real issue or culprits, have them pour money into the organization, then train them to blame the man across from them for their misfortune, rather than those pocketing their livelihoods.

But I digress... 

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15 minutes ago, BCJet said:

So lets get this straight - you are including Dorial Green Beckham who is about to be waived after TC, Devin Funchess who has a total of 54 career catches, and tyler locket as guys we passed on. 

You complain we dont have a QB, but list WRs and RBs that we passed on.  So I guess you dont count Robby Anderson who was undrafted, Mac cant be responsible for finding him right?

Now on to your exceptional analysis of 2016 - we passed on Paxton Lynch, who in addition to being criticized for poor work ethic, did what exactly as a rookie?  Cody Kessler and Jacoby Brisset - world beaters, man I wish we had them competing to be our 2017 starter.

There are 2 legitimate arguments in your entire analysis that arent cherry picking one guy here and there that happen to have had a good year, and if you think 20-20 hindsight works, then im not surprised you keep up the same inane argument.  

1.  Could we have taken Beasley over Leo, absolutely and quite possibly it would have been better for us to have done so with the amount of DLineman we have, however Leo is arguably a better player, so its a pretty tough argument to make that Mac should have drafted Beasley.

2.  Dak Prescott - the whole league missed on him, so again, 20-20 hindsight.

Other then that, the next time an offensive coordinator is afraid of Preston Smith or Yannik Ngaokoue will be the first time.

Besides Leonard Williams Mac hasn't drafted anyone good.  You want to count Robby, who wasn't drafted and had an ok rookie season fine but Mac's draft record so far is below average

 

And Mac has given out a litany of bad contracts

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Just now, thadude said:

Besides Leonard Williams Mac hasn't drafted anyone good.  You want to count Robby, who wasn't drafted and had an ok rookie season fine but Mac's draft record so far is below average

Define average.

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A view on the trade from the other side of the fence...from Cleveland.com on trade...

 

 Demario Davis

Pro (for Browns)

After the Browns signed Davis as an unrestricted free agent last March, he was expected to not only be a starting linebacker for the Browns, but a veteran leader on a team shedding veterans left and right.

He was named a team captain and paired with Christian Kirksey at middle linebacker, then started 15 of 16 games last season, finishing second to Kirksey in tackles (59 solo, 99 total). Davis also had two sacks, including the one below against the Steelers.

via GIPHY

Veteran leadership can't be discounted on the league's youngest team, which had 18 rookies start games in 2016.

And on a defense dealing with injuries throughout the season, Davis stayed healthy. He was one of just 10 Browns to start at least 15 games. That might not seem like much to most NFL fans, but in Cleveland, that means something.

 

Con (for Browns)

Davis was at the center of a defense that gave up the second-most rushing yards in the NFL last season. It was also a defense that was last in coverage against tight ends, according to FootballOutsiders.com.

While Davis started 15 games, his snap count declined during the second half of the season. He was on the field for at least 58 snaps each of the first seven weeks, but topped 50 just once the rest of the way. He played just nine snaps in Week 12. His final four weeks looked like this: 28, 54, 22, 31.

ProFootballFocus.com ranked Davis 59th among linebackers, and 78thvs. the run. He was just 43rd in coverage, and contributed to the Browns' inability to cover tight ends.

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its a privilege to play in the NFL but dam, to start your career as a Jet and then get traded to Cleveland.  That's just cruel.  Just when you thought things couldn't possibly get worse.

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43 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Shades of Whofans saying McCown was a good signing because he would be less of an impediment to Petty or Hackenberg taking the starting job than Cutler would have been. 

At least Cutler has some possibility of being effective.  You know McCown stinks

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1 minute ago, Gangrene said:

A view on the trade from the other side of the fence...from Cleveland.com on trade...

 

 Demario Davis

Pro (for Browns)

After the Browns signed Davis as an unrestricted free agent last March, he was expected to not only be a starting linebacker for the Browns, but a veteran leader on a team shedding veterans left and right.

He was named a team captain and paired with Christian Kirksey at middle linebacker, then started 15 of 16 games last season, finishing second to Kirksey in tackles (59 solo, 99 total). Davis also had two sacks, including the one below against the Steelers.

via GIPHY

Veteran leadership can't be discounted on the league's youngest team, which had 18 rookies start games in 2016.

And on a defense dealing with injuries throughout the season, Davis stayed healthy. He was one of just 10 Browns to start at least 15 games. That might not seem like much to most NFL fans, but in Cleveland, that means something.

 

Con (for Browns)

Davis was at the center of a defense that gave up the second-most rushing yards in the NFL last season. It was also a defense that was last in coverage against tight ends, according to FootballOutsiders.com.

While Davis started 15 games, his snap count declined during the second half of the season. He was on the field for at least 58 snaps each of the first seven weeks, but topped 50 just once the rest of the way. He played just nine snaps in Week 12. His final four weeks looked like this: 28, 54, 22, 31.

ProFootballFocus.com ranked Davis 59th among linebackers, and 78thvs. the run. He was just 43rd in coverage, and contributed to the Browns' inability to cover tight ends.

Browns actually had a good offseason but why would anyone trade anything for Pryor?

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2 minutes ago, thadude said:

At least Cutler has some possibility of being effective.  You know McCown stinks

That's why he's in the booth. Not a fan of McCown but let's not kid ourselves with Cutler being effective. 

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1 minute ago, thadude said:

Hitting on 30% of draft picks

 

Mac has drafted one good player in the first 2 years

Based on what metrics?

What constitutes "hitting" on a draft pick? Do they have to be an all-pro to be considered a hit? Because, based on your commentary about Leo being the only hit, that is the standard you are establishing. So, based on the standard of finding all-pro player with 30% of draft picks, I'd like to know which NFL GMs actually achieve this.

If you expand the definition of "hitting" on a draft pick to "finding players that can play", then it becomes more subjective. It would merit establishing grade-level baselines for player "hits", and then cross-referencing that with round they were selected in, and how many years in the league. In other words, a scope of measurement far beyond what either of us are going to take the time to pull together.

I'm not impressed with where we are as a team - and there is plenty to scrutinize about Mac's approach so far - but, that's not going to stop me from slapping down idiotic statements when they get brought into the discussion. Which is about all you seem good for.

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1 minute ago, rillo said:

That's why he's in the booth. Not a fan of McCown but let's not kid ourselves with Cutler being effective. 

Are you actually going to argue McClown is a better player than Jay Cutler?

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

Based on what metrics?

What constitutes "hitting" on a draft pick? Do they have to be an all-pro to be considered a hit? Because, based on your commentary about Leo being the only hit, that is the standard you are establishing. So, based on the standard of finding all-pro player with 30% of draft picks, I'd like to know which NFL GMs actually achieve this.

If you expand the definition of "hitting" on a draft pick to "finding players that can play", then it becomes more subjective. It would merit establishing grade-level baselines for player "hits", and then cross-referencing that with round they were selected in, and how many years in the league. In other words, a scope of measurement far beyond what either of us are going to take the time to pull together.

I'm not impressed with where we are as a team - and there is plenty to scrutinize about Mac's approach so far - but, that's not going to stop me from slapping down idiotic statements when they get brought into the discussion. Which is about all you seem good for.

Effective player who either starts or gets 40-50% of snaps

 

Mac has drafted a whopping total of 1 after 2 seasons.

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4 minutes ago, thadude said:

At least Cutler has some possibility of being effective.  You know McCown stinks

The first time the NFL showed what it really thought of Cutler, he was pooped out of Denver.

The second time, a huge contingency of leadership within the Bears organization wanted to give his job to... McCown.

You really nailed this one.

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