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We aren't rebuilding, we are becoming the Browns


kevinc855
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This is all stupid. You can't throw away everyone and the baby with the bathwater because you "want to start over" this is win now and reload league, rebuilds are done in the MLB with 162 game seasons not 16 game seasons. All we have done is put a lot of inmature guys on the field with no experience or leadership. Who says anyone will develop? Who says even If we get the top few QB's they will stay healthy or have a team around them to be successful with?? Way to many risks associated here, I was fine with shaking off some dead weight but after tossing Harris and Decker im off this "rebuild" nonsense plan.

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The Jets might actually be better without Harris, and Decker occupying 2 roster spots, Harris is washed up on the field, off of it he will be missed, but he was a huge liability in pass coverage.

Decker is a douche who lobbied for sh*tzpatrick, and was part of the locker room problem, dumping him was part of the solution.

Either way this doesn't change the fact the Jets were gonna be a raw young team next season, and neither are worth even 1 extra win if on the roster IMO.

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2 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

eh; david was getting slower by the year; maybe he had another year, most likely not. Decker has been hurt and is only around for 1 maybe 2 more years. In a rebuild you don't need 'overpriced' vets. you need to build a foundation. If they were trading away Leo or (crap there is nobody else - lol) or Quincy I can understand the uproar, but they are blowing the team up. This is what happens.

Sometimes keeping a guy who has been around the league for 10 years for the lockeroom is more valuable then on field play.

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1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

Sometimes keeping a guy who has been around the league for 10 years for the lockeroom is more valuable then on field play.

sure, but it doesn't make the team the 'browns' for getting rid of him either. you can make the argument that he was worth his salary just to be a leader; i would accept that. but, i don't think getting rid of him as and of itself is a damming proposition.

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6 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

right because they had an awesome year, the Browns are the definition of why loading up on picks isn't always the key to winning seasons.

We, on the other hand, had an awesome year, because trading picks for guys like Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clady, is Good

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Using the term "rebuild" suggests an effort to restore something to a previous state of proper function.

Not sure using "rebuild" is relevant to whats going on at Florham. Rebuild to what previous state exactly??

Circle jerk would be more like it with this regime.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

We, on the other hand, had an awesome year, because trading picks for guys like Brandon Marshall and Ryan Clady, is Good

You must have missed that 10-6 season Marshall got us for a ummm a 5th round pick? Yes, I take that trade any day.

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You have to go back until 2007 since they were better than 500, you have to go all of the way back to 1989 for them to have back-to-back better than 500 records. In fact in the last 19 years, they only had 3 seasons of better than 500 ball; in the last 9 seasons, except for 2014's 7 win season, they haven't won more than 5 games. We won more games last year than they won in the previous 2 years.

Since 2007, we have gone to the AFC championship twice, been over 500 4 times and been at 500 2 more times.

 

As far as the draft goes, they picked #1 and drafted defense in the first 2 rounds (even safety in round 2) just like us. And, I don't know if they have their franchise QB.

If we have a crappy season of 1-15 and walk out of it with a franchise QB we are in much better shape then them.

If, after 10 years of drafting in the top 1-3 9 out of 10 years and we still SUCK then you can say we are the Browns.

 

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I got to disagree. You can do a rebuild, it just has to be done properly. Speaking of your comparison with the Browns, Look at what Sashi Brown has done with that team in a season and a half of work as a GM in terms of a proper rebuild. He understood that a rebuild is predicated on drafting players. All he did last year was rack up on picks, all he did this year was rack up on picks through proper trading. Sashi Brown has been the GM since Jan. 2016, and during that time the Browns have had four 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks and four 3rd round picks. Next season the Browns currently have two 1st round picks, three 2nd round picks, and a 3rd round pick. 

From the perspective of "rebuilding" what he's done in regards to picking up top 100 talent over the past 3 seasons is phenomenal. Furthermore, putting himself in position to pick up top 32 talent is even more phenomenal having 6 1st round picks in a span of 3 drafts. 

What Sashi seems to understand is that it is more than just having top talent at the QB position, while at the same time putting himself in a great position to be able to pull the trigger if there is one available. Getting a guy like Cody Kessler (a guy who I thought had a weaker arm than Chad Pennington) seems to have been pretty solid if not for the injury last season. Kevin Hogan showed some promise as well. Now Sashi has 2 1st round picks leading up to a draft where people are saying that this could be one of those great QB draft years.....and he has 2 1st round picks. Oh, and lets not forget Deshone Kizer. 

 

The Browns have put some pieces in place, picking up quality players/depth QB's, legit targets on offense and they've drafted 3 edge rushers the past 2 seasons including one that was considered the best player of this past seasons draft class, and the Browns could be in position to draft a solid QB IF a guy like Kizer shows that he's not up to task. 

 

If the Browns and Jets both hit on QB's next year, the Browns from a team perspective is in a much better situation. The Browns did what needed to be done and now the worst is behind them. The Jets did what they had to do in 2014 with Idzik then they decided to give the team to Fitzpatrick in 2015 then gave him 12 million in 2016. The Browns even knew better than to do that sh*t. 

We're worst than the Browns at this point. The Browns drafted Kizer, a guy who was considered a 1st round/2nd round talent. The Jets drafted Hackenberg in the 2nd, a guy who could have been available in the 4th or 5th round. 

I have been hearing optimism about the Browns for the last 5-6 years and still not a winning season. The year the Browns can win 10 games I will shut up, you eventually gotta win, you can't just love personnel and draft moves every year.

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Just now, kevinc855 said:

I have been hearing optimism about the Browns for the last 5-6 years and still not a winning season. The year the Browns can win 10 games I will shut up, you eventually gotta win, you can't just love personnel and draft moves every year.

Sashi Brown hasnt been the GM for 5-6 years and Hue Jackson wasnt the HC for 5-6 years. What I can say is this, during the Browns terrible season last year, I didnt see that team give up the way I seen the Jets do. I seen a young inexperienced team giving their all for a coach that has put them in position to get experience and the players responded with effort because they seem to believe what is being preached over there. 

Cant say that for the Jets. They were too busy giving Fitzpatrick Fellatio and arguing in the locker room. 

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22 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

You have to go back until 2007 since they were better than 500, you have to go all of the way back to 1989 for them to have back-to-back better than 500 records. In fact in the last 19 years, they only had 3 seasons of better than 500 ball; in the last 9 seasons, except for 2014's 7 win season, they haven't won more than 5 games. We won more games last year than they won in the previous 2 years.

Since 2007, we have gone to the AFC championship twice, been over 500 4 times and been at 500 2 more times.

 

As far as the draft goes, they picked #1 and drafted defense in the first 2 rounds (even safety in round 2) just like us. And, I don't know if they have their franchise QB.

If we have a crappy season of 1-15 and walk out of it with a franchise QB we are in much better shape then them.

If, after 10 years of drafting in the top 1-3 9 out of 10 years and we still SUCK then you can say we are the Browns.

 

You know how we got to the AFC championship twice? Not with a bunch of rookies that's for sure. With a good balance of development and Free agency/trades like it should be done.

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19 minutes ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

The problem now is who are our veteran leaders to guide the younger guys?   Harris and Decker filled those roles.  Everyone has a hard on for tanking and drafting Darnauld.  Geno Smith was a top rated QB the year before he was drafted and fell to the second round.  

BINGO, tanking does not work. Winning franchises learn how to WIN. You don't see teams like the Pats, Steelers, Broncos, or Packers (named some of the consistent teams out there) "tanking" you see them build a blend of good coaching, good locker room chemistry, having strong leaders in players and making smart picks with what they have and smart FA moves. It's a tough blend to have but that's why there are very few good consistent franchises.

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1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

You know how we got to the AFC championship twice? Not with a bunch of rookies that's for sure. With a good balance of development and Free agency/trades like it should be done.

maybe so, but the browns have sucked for decades; and people are comparing us to browns after a bad year and a purge of old vets. I guarantee next year we will have a 'good' mix of rookies and vets when the GM (whomever it is) uses some of the salary cap we have.

Also, we got the championship by rolling the dice on a QB we grabbed at #6 by trading our pick, our #2 and a bag of magic beans to who? the browns.

We tried the slow rebuild; the problem is that we have had so many bad drafts back-to-back that we had very little young talent and no depth. The vets kept getting older and older. If you have an old team and you aren't winning, it is time for a reboot. A reboot every 10 years, does not a Browns team make.

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This is all stupid. You can't throw away everyone and the baby with the bathwater because you "want to start over" this is win now and reload league, rebuilds are done in the MLB with 162 game seasons not 16 game seasons. All we have done is put a lot of inmature guys on the field with no experience or leadership. Who says anyone will develop? Who says even If we get the top few QB's they will stay healthy or have a team around them to be successful with?? Way to many risks associated here, I was fine with shaking off some dead weight but after tossing Harris and Decker im off this "rebuild" nonsense plan.

eeyore.jpg

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17 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

BINGO, tanking does not work. Winning franchises learn how to WIN. You don't see teams like the Pats, Steelers, Broncos, or Packers (named some of the consistent teams out there) "tanking" you see them build a blend of good coaching, good locker room chemistry, having strong leaders in players and making smart picks with what they have and smart FA moves. It's a tough blend to have but that's why there are very few good consistent franchises.

It's almost as if all those teams have or have had something the Jets don't.  Can't quite put my finger on what though...

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In the past few days, I've learned that a lot of Jets fans are really excited about a season in which we missed the playoffs while playing the league's easiest schedule.  Had only one win against a good team and were swept and ultimately eliminated by the Rex Ryan Bills.

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This is all stupid. You can't throw away everyone and the baby with the bathwater because you "want to start over" this is win now and reload league, rebuilds are done in the MLB with 162 game seasons not 16 game seasons. All we have done is put a lot of inmature guys on the field with no experience or leadership. Who says anyone will develop? Who says even If we get the top few QB's they will stay healthy or have a team around them to be successful with?? Way to many risks associated here, I was fine with shaking off some dead weight but after tossing Harris and Decker im off this "rebuild" nonsense plan.

When you realize the coach you hired has the IQ of a turnip but you still have to pay him, this is the kind of activity you get in the twilight years of the contract.

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2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Sometimes keeping a guy who has been around the league for 10 years for the lockeroom is more valuable then on field play.

He sure didn't help out the locker room all that much last year. If Harris was such a leader things may have been different.

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