No Pain no Gain

[Jetster]

FINALLY! 

The NY Jets have finally decided that building a team with high priced mercenaries might get you close, signing old vets as bandaids might get you a few exciting games, but going with a team full of youngsters does two things in this new NFL. One, it opens competition without high priced vets beating out younger players based just on their high salary. Two, while completely rebuilding the team, it gives fans a chance to see what young guys emerge, get better, and become future leaders while also being in a position in the 2018 draft to have a chance at a QB that could be a future star.

No one is winning in this league without a QB. It's been proven over & over again with only 5 different QBs from the AFC representing in the Super Bowl over the last 17 years. Putting azzes in the seats by signing high priced vets is like swimming against the tide. So while many fans are shaking their heads & walking away, I'm looking forward to watching this team to see which players step out into leader roles under the pressure of losing. I want to see if John Morton can finally build an offense that improves as the year progresses.

This is something that many Jet fans have been asking for for years. The complaints over Harris & Deckers release are ridiculous. Harris is done! He was slow in 2010 (he was tracked down by a 280 LB tight end). Decker is coming back from 2 surgeries! 7.5 million isn't a ton of money & not one team wanted to give up a late pick, what does that tell you? 

This organization can't win. Jet fans bitch for years for a serious rebuild without sprinkled in high paid vets & the first time they do it in their history the media & tons of fans are killing them. I'm hoping we look back to this offseason as the year that transformed the Jets. The Patriots reign is definitely closer to being over than not & the Jets need to be ready to slip into that spot being the beasts of the AFC east. Short term pain for future gain. Go Jets!

 

[ASH1962]

Good post. Love the passion, but a few things here. First, you cannot say Finally to a total rebuild when they retain the biggest problem with the team, the HC. As you will see in September when 36 year old Josh McCown is our QB, not either of the young guys. After the first 6 losses, I can hardly wait to hear the same idiotic reasoning in the post game PC that he gave for starting Fitz last year in game 16. This "he gave us the best chance to win" BS makes me want to kill myself. I have no problem with their releasing Harris or Decker, but to me, the whole thing is really a sham until they get rid of the HC. Totally agree on the QB thing and the no pain no gain angle, it is 100% true. The Pats stunk for years and years before Brady, as did the Giants before Eli, the Steelers before Ben and the Packers before Favre / Rodgers and so on, the only team I can recall in recent history winning the SB with an average or below average QB was the Ravens with Dilfer.

 

[ScarletKnight89]

Completely agree with the OP. Great post. It's time for a rebuild. People have been complaining and calling for a rebuild for years. Now the Jets are doing it and some of those same people are complaining about how bad they're going to be and how they have no plan. The Jets can't win. I'm actually looking forward to this season for the reasons the OP mentioned. I want to see what young players emerge for us going forward.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

Good post. Love the passion, but a few things here. First, you cannot say Finally to a total rebuild when they retain the biggest problem with the team, the HC. As you will see in September when 36 year old Josh McCown is our QB, not either of the young guys. After the first 6 losses, I can hardly wait to hear the same idiotic reasoning in the post game PC that he gave for starting Fitz last year in game 16. This "he gave us the best chance to win" BS makes me want to kill myself. I have no problem with their releasing Harris or Decker, but to me, the whole thing is really a sham until they get rid of the HC. Totally agree on the QB thing and the no pain no gain angle, it is 100% true. The Pats stunk for years and years before Brady, as did the Giants before Eli, the Steelers before Ben and the Packers before Favre / Rodgers and so on, the only team I can recall in recent history winning the SB with an average or below average QB was the Ravens with Dilfer.

 

i guess you have no faith in bowles.  i think he can go either way.  last season was very strange and they made some good personnel moves in getting rid of marshall, pryor and the high priced vets. one thing can be said, this is bowles' team. if he fails it will be on his terms.  i also think, contrary to most that this team can surprise.  you get players willing to play good football for the whole game and things can be good.

as for average sb qb's, beside dilfer there was plunkett, rypien, williams, johnson, hostetler and you can make a case for eli.

[ChuckkieB]

I'm all in with the rebuild and am also looking forward to watching some of our young players develop this season.  I just don't trust Bowles to do the right thing with our QB's.  McCown needs to be on the bench week 1.

[Beerfish]

Todd Bowles in his white shirt as we prepare to try and get Sam Darnold.

[bitonti]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

No one is winning in this league without a QB. 

 

 

better draft 2 safeties then 

[jgb]

Rebuild only works when you draft well. And this is the jets.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[joewilly12]

48 minutes ago, jgb said:

Rebuild only works when you draft well. And this is the jets.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Way too many 1st and 2nd round draft pick busts takes its toll.........and here we are today. 

[Jetster]

I think Macc has drafted pretty good, the problem is this instant gratification world we live in. Some draft picks take time to grow. There is no doubt in my mind that we will be in position to draft a QB in 2018.

They didn't like any of the QBs coming out this year. No one did, but just like Geno when you don't have one you get antsy & just take a guy. I keep saying this, the league isn't that good anymore. Pats are head & shoulders above these other teams. It's not like we're striving to be better than the Montana 49ers or the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys.

The improvement we need when we finally find a QB is so minuscule to go from 6-10 to 10-6 in this league, a total rebuild is definitely the way to go when the gap between the Jets & the Pats in the division is still so wide. Really looking forward to watching to see if Bowles & Morton can get this team to improve from September to December & start building some excitement for the near future & find some young players who younger fans admire & want to wear their Jerseys.

There are a bunch of youngsters, Leo, Lee, Jenkins, Adams, Maye, Enunwa, Anderson, Peake, Stewart, Hanson, Legette, maybe ASJ? We went from an old team to a very young team (kindergarteners). 

[Jetster]

8 hours ago, bitonti said:

better draft 2 safeties then 

Jets will be in prime position for a top QB next year in a year where more are available to choose from. It's the smart thing to do. 

[joewilly12]

16 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Jets will be in prime position for a top QB next year in a year where more are available to choose from. It's the smart thing to do. 

Didn't Macc pick a QB in the 2nd round of the 2016 NFL draft? 

[Dunnie]

I think Macc has drafted pretty good, the problem is this instant gratification world we live in. Some draft picks take time to grow. There is no doubt in my mind that we will be in position to draft a QB in 2018.
They didn't like any of the QBs coming out this year. No one did, but just like Geno when you don't have one you get antsy & just take a guy. I keep saying this, the league isn't that good anymore. Pats are head & shoulders above these other teams. It's not like we're striving to be better than the Montana 49ers or the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys.
The improvement we need when we finally find a QB is so minuscule to go from 6-10 to 10-6 in this league, a total rebuild is definitely the way to go when the gap between the Jets & the Pats in the division is still so wide. Really looking forward to watching to see if Bowles & Morton can get this team to improve from September to December & start building some excitement for the near future & find some young players who younger fans admire & want to wear their Jerseys.
There are a bunch of youngsters, Leo, Lee, Jenkins, Adams, Maye, Enunwa, Anderson, Peake, Stewart, Hanson, Legette, maybe ASJ? We went from an old team to a very young team (kindergarteners). 

we are the browns of last year ... except we draft better.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Azuma]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

I think Macc has drafted pretty good, 

Stopped reading this post after this. Mac's drafts have been horrific. Idzik like. Yes he drafted Big Cat and Adams but both those picks fell into his coffee cup. No brainer.  I do agree though that this rebuild/revamp that is underway is a smart move. Should have been done as soon as he came aboard. He didn't have a QB when hired and he didn't have an elite defense to compensate for the awful offense he inherited. Mac had better get a QB......real soon or it's curtains. 

[jgb]

Were gain directly correlated with pain, Jets fans would all look like this

[Jetster]

10 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Didn't Macc pick a QB in the 2nd round of the 2016 NFL draft? 

So? Green Bay had Brett Favre & picked Aaron Rogers.

[Jetster]

7 hours ago, Azuma said:

Stopped reading this post after this. Mac's drafts have been horrific. Idzik like. Yes he drafted Big Cat and Adams but both those picks fell into his coffee cup. No brainer.  I do agree though that this rebuild/revamp that is underway is a smart move. Should have been done as soon as he came aboard. He didn't have a QB when hired and he didn't have an elite defense to compensate for the awful offense he inherited. Mac had better get a QB......real soon or it's curtains. 

Macc has had 2 drafts with his scouts in place. So what are you saying? Draft picks should all play like NFL veterans right out of the gate? 

It's ridiculous the expectations of Macc who has really just gotten started. How f*cking long was Terry Bradway here? Meanwhile we have fans screaming for Bill Cowher. His record out of the gate was horrific, in fact every Jet fan would asking for his head on a silver platter. 

Jets NEED to stick to a system. If they want to fire Bowles next year than they should do whatever it takes to reunite Sean Payton with John Morton so they still have a seamless transition & keep the same offensive system in place. Change for change sake rarely works in the long run.

[jdeacon]

21 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Completely agree with the OP. Great post. It's time for a rebuild. People have been complaining and calling for a rebuild for years. Now the Jets are doing it and some of those same people are complaining about how bad they're going to be and how they have no plan. The Jets can't win. I'm actually looking forward to this season for the reasons the OP mentioned. I want to see what young players emerge for us going forward.

I believe most of the complaints are coming from  some of the moves the front office has done this offseason. Its not the cuts but how they have been done for career jet players that have rubbed some of the fans the wrong way. There is no excuse to release Mangold through a phone call while he is on vacation with his family. I get it, its a ruthless business but it also shows a complete lack of appreciation from the franchise to a player that has done everything he has been asked to do, been named to multiple pro bowls and has never once been an issue for the team. 

Harris and Decker are more arguable. From what I understand they were trying to restructure Harris's contract and he was refusing so I have no problem with the late release. They wanted to get  something in return for Decker and failed to move him. It is questionable if Decker really should have been moved as young qb's could use a WR that understands route concepts and will be were he is supposed to be. Without having anyone besides Enunwa as a semi proven WR on the team it will make evaluating the young qb's that much harder come game day.

And finally speaking of the qb's, most people are upset that McCown has been starting in OTA's and minicamp. This is a way overblown issue right now. Neither Petty or Hack has ever played in WCO, McCown has. It is only natural to have someone who understands the offensive schemes run the offense will the total install is being done during the light period of training and allow for the young qb's to compete all the way when training camp starts.

 

[Azuma]

Dup 

[Azuma]

51 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Macc has had 2 drafts with his scouts in place. So what are you saying? Draft picks should all play like NFL veterans right out of the gate? 

It's ridiculous the expectations of Macc who has really just gotten started. How f*cking long was Terry Bradway here? Meanwhile we have fans screaming for Bill Cowher. His record out of the gate was horrific, in fact every Jet fan would asking for his head on a silver platter. 

Jets NEED to stick to a system. If they want to fire Bowles next year than they should do whatever it takes to reunite Sean Payton with John Morton so they still have a seamless transition & keep the same offensive system in place. Change for change sake rarely works in the long run.

Bill Cowher horrific? 11-5, 9-7, 12-4, 11-5,   10-6, 11-5 in his first 6 seasons as coach NOT GM. Tom Donahue was Steelers GM.  Check.  Mac had gazillions to work with after Idzik set up the cap and he BLEW it big time. All his FA acquisitions were total flops.  Next year, again, we will have lots of cash, I have little faith he makes the right decisions in free agency. He let numerous players slip through his fingers in areas that were great need. As far as rookies maturing blah blah blah, granted. But you can already see, Lee is better suited to play Arena Football League than he NFL. And who has EVER drafted 2 safeties in the first 2 rounds ever? Next year he must find a QB. Hopefully, another is sitting there on a branch like a bird ?. Hard to screw that one up. 

[ZachEY]

On 6/13/2017 at 7:49 AM, Jetster said:

FINALLY! 

The NY Jets have finally decided that building a team with high priced mercenaries might get you close, signing old vets as bandaids might get you a few exciting games, but going with a team full of youngsters does two things in this new NFL. One, it opens competition without high priced vets beating out younger players based just on their high salary. Two, while completely rebuilding the team, it gives fans a chance to see what young guys emerge, get better, and become future leaders while also being in a position in the 2018 draft to have a chance at a QB that could be a future star.

No one is winning in this league without a QB. It's been proven over & over again with only 5 different QBs from the AFC representing in the Super Bowl over the last 17 years. Putting azzes in the seats by signing high priced vets is like swimming against the tide. So while many fans are shaking their heads & walking away, I'm looking forward to watching this team to see which players step out into leader roles under the pressure of losing. I want to see if John Morton can finally build an offense that improves as the year progresses.

This is something that many Jet fans have been asking for for years. The complaints over Harris & Deckers release are ridiculous. Harris is done! He was slow in 2010 (he was tracked down by a 280 LB tight end). Decker is coming back from 2 surgeries! 7.5 million isn't a ton of money & not one team wanted to give up a late pick, what does that tell you? 

This organization can't win. Jet fans bitch for years for a serious rebuild without sprinkled in high paid vets & the first time they do it in their history the media & tons of fans are killing them. I'm hoping we look back to this offseason as the year that transformed the Jets. The Patriots reign is definitely closer to being over than not & the Jets need to be ready to slip into that spot being the beasts of the AFC east. Short term pain for future gain. Go Jets!

 

Remember when everyone was this excited when Idzik FINALLY didn't add high priced vets in free agency?  

[Skeptable]

19 hours ago, bitonti said:

better draft 2 safeties then 

Enough, these may be the two best players on the team for years to come... Your reasoning is tired and old... get over it... they drafted two players in the same position, in a weak QB draft.

[shawn306]

On 6/13/2017 at 7:49 AM, Jetster said:

FINALLY! 

The NY Jets have finally decided that building a team with high priced mercenaries might get you close, signing old vets as bandaids might get you a few exciting games, but going with a team full of youngsters does two things in this new NFL. One, it opens competition without high priced vets beating out younger players based just on their high salary. Two, while completely rebuilding the team, it gives fans a chance to see what young guys emerge, get better, and become future leaders while also being in a position in the 2018 draft to have a chance at a QB that could be a future star.

No one is winning in this league without a QB. It's been proven over & over again with only 5 different QBs from the AFC representing in the Super Bowl over the last 17 years. Putting azzes in the seats by signing high priced vets is like swimming against the tide. So while many fans are shaking their heads & walking away, I'm looking forward to watching this team to see which players step out into leader roles under the pressure of losing. I want to see if John Morton can finally build an offense that improves as the year progresses.

This is something that many Jet fans have been asking for for years. The complaints over Harris & Deckers release are ridiculous. Harris is done! He was slow in 2010 (he was tracked down by a 280 LB tight end). Decker is coming back from 2 surgeries! 7.5 million isn't a ton of money & not one team wanted to give up a late pick, what does that tell you? 

This organization can't win. Jet fans bitch for years for a serious rebuild without sprinkled in high paid vets & the first time they do it in their history the media & tons of fans are killing them. I'm hoping we look back to this offseason as the year that transformed the Jets. The Patriots reign is definitely closer to being over than not & the Jets need to be ready to slip into that spot being the beasts of the AFC east. Short term pain for future gain. Go Jets!

 

The problem with the AFC is that it is/was dominated by 3 first ballot HOF QB's (Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady). There have been alot of QB's that have never even had a shot in that time span that are pretty damn good. (Rivers, Dalton, Luck, etc). 

With Brady and Roethlisberger getting towards the end of their careers, the door may open for the next generation of QB's (Carr, Mariota, Luck) to take over the reigns. 

This year is already a lost cause. The Jets need to see if they have anything at all in Petty or Hackenberg and if not go out next year with the first pick and get the guy who hopefully will be good in 2020.

[Skeptable]

12 minutes ago, Azuma said:

Bill Cowher horrific? 11-5, 9-7, 12-4, 11-5,   10-6, 11-5 in his first 6 seasons as coach NOT GM. Tom Donahue was Steelers GM.  Check.  Mac had gazillions to work with after Idzik set up the cap and he BLEW it big time. All his FA acquisitions were total flops.  Next year, again, we will have lots of cash, I have little faith he makes the right decisions in free agency. He let numerous players slip through his fingers in areas that were great need. As far as rookies maturing blah blah blah, granted. But you can already see, Lee is better suited to play Arena Football League than he NFL. And who has EVER drafted 2 safeties in the first 2 rounds ever? Next year he must find a QB. Hopefully, another is sitting there on a branch like a bird ?. Hard to screw that one up. 

So because drafting two safeties in the first two rounds has never been done before, by default its automatically a horrible move. These posts are so ridiculous... We have a chance to have a Lawyor Milloy (Drafted Second Round) and Ty Law backfield (Drafted First Round).... This vaunted defense (And some cheating) helped the pats win multiple superbowls.... Yet because they happened to be drafted in the same draft they are automatic failures... SO INSANE.... Jets fans just need to complain about something.

[Skeptable]

1 minute ago, shawn306 said:

The problem with the AFC is that it is/was dominated by 3 first ballot HOF QB's (Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady). There have been alot of QB's that have never even had a shot in that time span that are pretty damn good. (Rivers, Dalton, Luck, etc). 

With Brady and Roethlisberger getting towards the end of their careers, the door may open for the next generation of QB's (Carr, Mariota, Luck) to take over the reigns. 

This year is already a lost cause. The Jets need to see if they have anything at all in Petty or Hackenberg and if not go out next year with the first pick and get the guy who hopefully will be good in 2020.

Brady wasn't a Hall of Famer to start. He had one of the best defenses in the league. And best Head Coaches of All Time.

[BurnleyJet]

17 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Brady wasn't a Hall of Famer to start. He had one of the best defenses in the league. And best Head Coaches of All Time.

Yes my first thoughts on Brady was system Quaterback. I held onto that for a while. Now I just hate him, and expect a sound beating every time we play them.

[Azuma]

30 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

So because drafting two safeties in the first two rounds has never been done before, by default its automatically a horrible move. These posts are so ridiculous... We have a chance to have a Lawyor Milloy (Drafted Second Round) and Ty Law backfield (Drafted First Round).... This vaunted defense (And some cheating) helped the pats win multiple superbowls.... Yet because they happened to be drafted in the same draft they are automatic failures... SO INSANE.... Jets fans just need to complain about something.

Mac is a groundbreaking entrepreneur for grabbing 2 safeties ? .Ty was a cb which is what we should have drafted in round 2. NOT another safety.  

[Skeptable]

32 minutes ago, Azuma said:

Mac is a groundbreaking entrepreneur for grabbing 2 safeties ? .Ty was a cb which is what we should have drafted in round 2. NOT another safety.  

You are correct he was CB.

Here is a better example... Seattle in 2010 drafted Thomas in the 1st round and Chancellor in the 5th... Same draft... but now because its a 5th and  not a second it's a bigger deal right?  But didn't they win a couple Superbowls because of Thomas... So why does it matter when you drafted them if they both turn into stars.  Or even that you drafted both of them in the same draft.

 

That's my bigger point... all these people bitching and they are bitching just to bitch... they haven't played a single down yet and they are both failures because they they were drafted in the 1st and second rounds of one draft... and if it was consecutive drafts there would be bitching about something else.

[bitonti]

4 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Yes my first thoughts on Brady was system Quaterback. I held onto that for a while. Now I just hate him, and expect a sound beating every time we play them.

he is a system qb: systematic cheater 

[Azuma]

18 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

You are correct he was CB.

Here is a better example... Seattle in 2010 drafted Thomas in the 1st round and Chancellor in the 5th... Same draft... but now because its a 5th and  not a second it's a bigger deal right?  But didn't they win a couple Superbowls because of Thomas... So why does it matter when you drafted them if they both turn into stars.  Or even that you drafted both of them in the same draft.

 

That's my bigger point... all these people bitching and they are bitching just to bitch... they haven't played a single down yet and they are both failures because they they were drafted in the 1st and second rounds of one draft... and if it was consecutive drafts there would be bitching about something else.

So you're bitching about bitches bitching? Chancellor, great player, was  5th rounder not a 2nd.  There were more pressing needs than taking another safety so early to n the draft. CB, Edge LB, RB, OL were so much more needed.

[Skeptable]

53 minutes ago, Azuma said:

So you're bitching about bitches bitching? Chancellor, great player, was  5th rounder not a 2nd.  There were more pressing needs than taking another safety so early to n the draft. CB, Edge LB, RB, OL were so much more needed.

Were there more pressing needs??? How can you really say that... Did you watch our safeties last year?  So quick to judge.. without even seeing a snap... That is why I take issue... 

[Azuma]

48 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Were there more pressing needs??? How can you really say that... Did you watch our safeties last year?  So quick to judge.. without even seeing a snap... That is why I take issue... 

When is the last time we had an edge rusher?  A breakaway RB? A top rated center was there for the taking OR a top CB. They could have taken another safety LATER in the draft just like your example with the Seahawks - right?

[Skeptable]

22 minutes ago, Azuma said:

When is the last time we had an edge rusher?  A breakaway RB? A top rated center was there for the taking OR a top CB. They could have taken another safety LATER in the draft just like your example with the Seahawks - right?

All speculation... You have already given a failing grade when you haven't even seen a snap... And by the way since Terrell Davis, name another RB that has won a team a Superbowl.  And you typically don't find dominate edge rushers outside the first round. 

Again you are speculating Wilson or another CB is better then having two of the top safeties in a very deep DB draft (and they drafted two CBs late in the draft to boot).

All I am saying is let them play a year or two and then you can call them failures if you want... but without seeing them play who knows... we could have the best tandem safeties in the league for the next 4-5 years on rookie contracts... Or not they could be busts... Just judging before you seen and acting like you know how to GM and scout better then the professionals makes me want to scream and say, if you can do better then why don't you.... what is stopping you... go out and scout.

 

[HighPitch]

Always pain..... Little gain. Wtf is up with that? 

[Azuma]

57 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

All speculation... You have already given a failing grade when you haven't even seen a snap... And by the way since Terrell Davis, name another RB that has won a team a Superbowl.  And you typically don't find dominate edge rushers outside the first round. 

Again you are speculating Wilson or another CB is better then having two of the top safeties in a very deep DB draft (and they drafted two CBs late in the draft to boot).

All I am saying is let them play a year or two and then you can call them failures if you want... but without seeing them play who knows... we could have the best tandem safeties in the league for the next 4-5 years on rookie contracts... Or not they could be busts... Just judging before you seen and acting like you know how to GM and scout better then the professionals makes me want to scream and say, if you can do better then why don't you.... what is stopping you... go out and scout.

 

Pure speculation right back at ya