#27TheDominator Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, rangerous said: in hindsight i agree that signing fitz so late was a bad move. they should have told him to take a hike and start geno. but at the same time most were still thinking the offense could perform as well or better than 2015. picking hack in the 2nd round just about proves that the underlying plan was to have fitz as the starter for 2016 and 2017 with petty or hack starting this season. plans don't always works out as well as people want. You can't draw a line in the sand if you are going to jump over it with your checkbook out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, Jetdawgg said: Following the herd is not necessarily a good thing All my friends jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Barkus said: Come on, he has had only 2 drafts. Still early to call. We won't discuss most recent draft since they have not played yet, but Adams has been very impressive early. Leonard Williams- stud already made pro bowl devin smith- bust, but had a lot of injuries too Mauldin- down year last yr, could be rotational player. Let's see how he does this yr petty- if he turns out to be decent back-up, ok pick harrison-bust simon-has flashed, I think he may end up starting honestly. Could be a gem. Lee- undersized, possible head case. Let's see how he does this yr hack- improving, we will see him this yr. jenkins- starter, solid pick Burris- will probably be starter this yr shell- will likely be starter, looked decent last yr edwards- punter, needs to get better peake- will see this yr, has potential. This is all fair, but a few folks feel that the time to judge Mac's drafts is ten minutes after the draft. Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, AFJF said: This is all fair, but a few folks feel that the time to judge Mac's drafts is ten minutes after the draft. Seems legit. It's called WFYA posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, AFJF said: This is all fair, but a few folks feel that the time to judge Mac's drafts is ten minutes after the draft. Seems legit. Totes magotes. Only a crazy person would advocate for a GM to be fired after two seasons, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I would have made good trades and only signed pro bowl players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, dbatesman said: Totes magotes. Only a crazy person would advocate for a GM to be fired after two seasons, right? Lol, its so funny how butt hurt you are over Idzik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 16 hours ago, dbatesman said: Maccagnan has drafted one (1) good player. Keep ******* that chicken. Yeah....okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 17 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: You can't draw a line in the sand if you are going to jump over it with your checkbook out. yes, they put themselves in the situation with fitz last season. but at the same time, when have the jets ever devoted a market price to the qb position? even with fitz, they didn't spend much more than 20m on all of their qb's for the past two seasons. maybe sanchez' extension was sort of market price. as \the saying goes, you get what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 On 6/16/2017 at 11:12 AM, #27TheDominator said: I know everybody hates Skrine, but did anyone actually watch Marcus Williams last year? I blame Bowles for that. He's the most inept defensive playcaller ever he makes Mangini look good. I even blame Bowles partially for Revis being such a dumpster fire last season. Arizona's defense has had 0 problems since Bowles left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 18 hours ago, CanadaSteve said: Yeah....okay. Name the good draft pick Mac hit on in the 2015 and 2016 drafts that isn't Leonard Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 On 6/15/2017 at 11:33 PM, varjet said: Over the last 3 offseasons, Mac has: Traded 5 Draft Picks for: Fitz, Marshall, Posey, Stacy and Clady. The first 2 helped the initial 10 win no playoff season. None contributed anything after that. Those draft picks could have been contributing to the Jets today. Signed 5 Low Value/High Cost Contracts: Revis, Fitz (2), Cromartie, Skrine and Gilcrist. That money could have been used for other players. We can go over the Draft Picks in another post, but these 10 moves are one of the principle reasons the Jets roster is so poor. Or maybe the fact that that 2? Of idziks 19 draft picks are on the team??? Everyone blames mac for lack of talent when most of his players are still on the team and young and have a chance to prove themselves... those contracts were stop gaps to get us to these young players. The only reason people crap on the jets roster right now is because nobody knows the players names yet.... Idzik got the jets here mac is rebuilding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Skeptable said: Or maybe the fact that that 2? Of idziks 19 draft picks are on the team??? And Macc has had a similarly inept drafting record so far. As for your second point, Idzik has been gone for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 minute ago, thadude said: And Macc has had a similarly inept drafting record so far. As for your second point, Idzik has been gone for 3 years. Mac has been league average in drafting... idzik was a failure, to compare is pointless, the depth problem can't be fixed in two seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 40 minutes ago, Skeptable said: Mac has been league average in drafting... Again I'm going to ask a rhetorical question rather than simply saying you are wrong because you are Name me the good draft pick Mac hit on in the '15 and '16 drafts who isn't Leonard Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 40 minutes ago, thadude said: Again I'm going to ask a rhetorical question rather than simply saying you are wrong because you are Name me the good draft pick Mac hit on in the '15 and '16 drafts who isn't Leonard Williams OK, I'll play ... Deon Simon - has been good value for a 7th round draft pick Jordan Jenkins - 11 starts in 14 games Brandon Shell - played well in the small amount of time he has seen Charone Peake - pretty good showing for another 7th rounder Honorable mentions : UDFA - Robby Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, jamesr said: OK, I'll play ... Deon Simon - has been good value for a 7th round draft pick Jordan Jenkins - 11 starts in 14 games Brandon Shell - played well in the small amount of time he has seen Charone Peake - pretty good showing for another 7th rounder Honorable mentions : UDFA - Robby Anderson Simon- JAG Jenkins - can't pass rush Shell- reports from OTA's are that the OL looks terrible Peake - JAG Anderson- wasn't drafted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, thadude said: Simon- JAG Jenkins - can't pass rush Shell- reports from OTA's are that the OL looks terrible Peake - JAG Anderson- wasn't drafted Great response ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammagen Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 On 6/15/2017 at 11:33 PM, varjet said: Over the last 3 offseasons, Mac has: Traded 5 Draft Picks for: Fitz, Marshall, Posey, Stacy and Clady. The first 2 helped the initial 10 win no playoff season. None contributed anything after that. Those draft picks could have been contributing to the Jets today. Signed 5 Low Value/High Cost Contracts: Revis, Fitz (2), Cromartie, Skrine and Gilcrist. That money could have been used for other players. We can go over the Draft Picks in another post, but these 10 moves are one of the principle reasons the Jets roster is so poor. nope not even close how about the previous regime hitting on 2 out of 12 picks? money spent on free agents no-one complained when they were signed and that money is not effecting anyone this yr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Jets fan Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 5 hours ago, thadude said: Simon- JAG Jenkins - can't pass rush Shell- reports from OTA's are that the OL looks terrible Peake - JAG Anderson- wasn't drafted Take a breath blackout, your sounding nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 4 hours ago, jamesr said: Great response ... Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 9 hours ago, jamesr said: OK, I'll play ... Deon Simon - has been good value for a 7th round draft pick Jordan Jenkins - 11 starts in 14 games Brandon Shell - played well in the small amount of time he has seen Charone Peake - pretty good showing for another 7th rounder Honorable mentions : UDFA - Robby Anderson Starts are not a measurement of success on a team that is paper thin at a player's position. The Jets had no OLBers. Who else were they going to start -- nobody? Stephen Hill was a starter his first 2 years in the league. BFD. Simon is just ok so far. He only started anything because McLendon (who also cost a draft pick, mind you) went on IR halfway through the season. We had a great NT who was also a great locker room guy -- who was a great pickup as an UDFA. Maccagnan instead chose to get cute and let him play under the RFA tag instead of extending him with some of that "he HAD to spend that money" cap room he inherited. Peake had such a good showing, with 19 catches, and so impressed the Jets themselves, that they took 2 more WR before sniffing at any prospect at edge rusher, OL, CB, TE or frankly any glaring hole. If they were that in love with Peake, then - with Enunwa and Anderson already on board - they don't draft two more WRs. Anderson looked good so far, but the way he's talked about here you'd think he just had 1300 yards and 10 TDs, constantly snaring contested passes in tight coverage. He had 600 yards, 2 TDs, and for every 10 passes he caught he also dropped 1. I think he's fine for a specific role and have no complaints about him as an UDFA, but he's overrated. Shell? If the team loved him so much, after trading up to get him last year, then why did they just sign two unrestricted FA tackles in back to back days in March, and then have Brent Qvale take half the RT snaps in OTAs? His late season ratings were a bumped a bit by being a set of fresh legs in December and it's not like they simplly put him on an island 1-on-1 with the league's best pass rushers (on the contrary, IIRC they gave him a lot of help at the expense of helping elsewhere, which they can't keep doing, and won't if the TE is going to actually go out for passes in 2017). In short, which is not generally my thing, you're grading on a curve. There's every likelihood they'd all be backups or role players on a better team, no matter how badly we want to see all of them succeed for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: Starts are not a measurement of success on a team that is paper thin at a player's position. The Jets had no OLBers. Who else were they going to start -- nobody? Stephen Hill was a starter his first 2 years in the league. BFD. Simon is just ok so far. He only started anything because McLendon (who also cost a draft pick, mind you) went on IR halfway through the season. We had a great NT who was also a great locker room guy -- who was a great pickup as an UDFA. Maccagnan instead chose to get cute and let him play under the RFA tag instead of extending him with some of that "he HAD to spend that money" cap room he inherited. Peake had such a good showing, with 19 catches, and so impressed the Jets themselves, that they took 2 more WR before sniffing at any prospect at edge rusher, OL, CB, TE or frankly any glaring hole. If they were that in love with Peake, then - with Enunwa and Anderson already on board - they don't draft two more WRs. Anderson looked good so far, but the way he's talked about here you'd think he just had 1300 yards and 10 TDs, constantly snaring contested passes in tight coverage. He had 600 yards, 2 TDs, and for every 10 passes he caught he also dropped 1. I think he's fine for a specific role and have no complaints about him as an UDFA, but he's overrated. Shell? If the team loved him so much, after trading up to get him last year, then why did they just sign two unrestricted FA tackles in back to back days in March, and then have Brent Qvale take half the RT snaps in OTAs? His late season ratings were a bumped a bit by being a set of fresh legs in December and it's not like they simplly put him on an island 1-on-1 with the league's best pass rushers (on the contrary, IIRC they gave him a lot of help at the expense of helping elsewhere, which they can't keep doing, and won't if the TE is going to actually go out for passes in 2017). In short, which is not generally my thing, you're grading on a curve. There's every likelihood they'd all be backups or role players on a better team, no matter how badly we want to see all of them succeed for us. If starts are a measurement for success in a draft pick Geno Smith was a great draft pick he was our starting qb the first 2 seasons of his career Anderson had a nice rookie season for an undrafted player but people on this messageboard act like he had the Randy Moss rookie year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 13 hours ago, thadude said: Again I'm going to ask a rhetorical question rather than simply saying you are wrong because you are Name me the good draft pick Mac hit on in the '15 and '16 drafts who isn't Leonard Williams Subjective because they haven't even had a chance to play. .. most people would have called enuwa a failure after the first 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 On 6/17/2017 at 9:43 AM, rangerous said: yes, they put themselves in the situation with fitz last season. but at the same time, when have the jets ever devoted a market price to the qb position? even with fitz, they didn't spend much more than 20m on all of their qb's for the past two seasons. maybe sanchez' extension was sort of market price. as \the saying goes, you get what you pay for. Market price means what the market would pay for a player. Was "the market" going to pay Fitzpatrick $12M? McCown $6M? I think not. The idea that the Jets should pay QBs $20M because that is the going rate doesn't get them a starting caliber QB, it just spends $20M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 35 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: Market price means what the market would pay for a player. Was "the market" going to pay Fitzpatrick $12M? McCown $6M? I think not. The idea that the Jets should pay QBs $20M because that is the going rate doesn't get them a starting caliber QB, it just spends $20M True. Mac paid Fitz $12 million more than any other GM would have offered and he paid McClown $4 million more than the only other offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 True. Mac paid Fitz $12 million more than any other GM would have offered and he paid McClown $4 million more than the only other offer ... yup ... SFS strategy executed to perfection.Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: Market price means what the market would pay for a player. Was "the market" going to pay Fitzpatrick $12M? McCown $6M? I think not. The idea that the Jets should pay QBs $20M because that is the going rate doesn't get them a starting caliber QB, it just spends $20M market is probably a misnomer since the market is so small it's apt to be warped. in any case my point still holds. the jets, since obrien in 83 have really not devoted their draft to landing a top prospect nor have they gone out and brought in a "market price" qb. they have been severely underpaying for the position for at least 10 seasons. granted the qb's they've had haven't been very good but at the same time there's an unwillingness to part with the resources necessary to land a good one. of course most times it means stinking up the joint for a couple of seasons to ensure a great draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 On June 18, 2017 at 11:37 AM, thadude said: Again I'm going to ask a rhetorical question rather than simply saying you are wrong because you are Name me the good draft pick Mac hit on in the '15 and '16 drafts who isn't Leonard Williams lol what GM is hitting home runs on every pick from the last 2 drafts. These guys have been productive players so far, it's a good start to a long rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 47 minutes ago, rangerous said: market is probably a misnomer since the market is so small it's apt to be warped. in any case my point still holds. the jets, since obrien in 83 have really not devoted their draft to landing a top prospect nor have they gone out and brought in a "market price" qb. they have been severely underpaying for the position for at least 10 seasons. granted the qb's they've had haven't been very good but at the same time there's an unwillingness to part with the resources necessary to land a good one. of course most times it means stinking up the joint for a couple of seasons to ensure a great draft position. WTF are you talking about? 1983?!? Sanchez was #5 overall. Pennington was #18 overall. They were both picked considerably higher than Kenny O. They signed O'Donnell to a pretty huge contract at the time. I'm pretty sure that after he was hurt, and after they drafted Pennington they gave Testicles a pretty big number in renegotiation. They gave Pennington a monumental extension. I think they were still paying him after they drafted Sanchez and possibly after Sanchez obviously sucked. If you think market price is a misnomer then don't use it. It was your ******* term. Nobody was going to pay Fitzpatrick anywhere near that number and it was widely reported that McCown was fielding offers at approximately 1/3 what we paid him. You make the mistake of acting like the limited market is a detriment to the team. It is the players problem. If the carousel stops and Hoyer just got $6M per, there are no other jobs left and you have him over a barrel. Fitzpatrick was sitting on his ass and his agent's phone would have been growing cobwebs if it weren't for retweeting Marshall and Decker. The resources are far from the problem. The team has drafted more QBs than anybody. It is the talent evaluation that is the problem, but you want to gut the team to get a draft pick and count on the same clowns to get it right. How many teams started tanking for a QB prospect in March? Insanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 40 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: WTF are you talking about? 1983?!? Sanchez was #5 overall. Pennington was #18 overall. They were both picked considerably higher than Kenny O. They signed O'Donnell to a pretty huge contract at the time. I'm pretty sure that after he was hurt, and after they drafted Pennington they gave Testicles a pretty big number in renegotiation. They gave Pennington a monumental extension. I think they were still paying him after they drafted Sanchez and possibly after Sanchez obviously sucked. If you think market price is a misnomer then don't use it. It was your ******* term. Nobody was going to pay Fitzpatrick anywhere near that number and it was widely reported that McCown was fielding offers at approximately 1/3 what we paid him. You make the mistake of acting like the limited market is a detriment to the team. It is the players problem. If the carousel stops and Hoyer just got $6M per, there are no other jobs left and you have him over a barrel. Fitzpatrick was sitting on his ass and his agent's phone would have been growing cobwebs if it weren't for retweeting Marshall and Decker. The resources are far from the problem. The team has drafted more QBs than anybody. It is the talent evaluation that is the problem, but you want to gut the team to get a draft pick and count on the same clowns to get it right. How many teams started tanking for a QB prospect in March? Insanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 WTF are you talking about? 1983?!? Sanchez was #5 overall. Pennington was #18 overall. They were both picked considerably higher than Kenny O. They signed O'Donnell to a pretty huge contract at the time. I'm pretty sure that after he was hurt, and after they drafted Pennington they gave Testicles a pretty big number in renegotiation. They gave Pennington a monumental extension. I think they were still paying him after they drafted Sanchez and possibly after Sanchez obviously sucked. If you think market price is a misnomer then don't use it. It was your ******* term. Nobody was going to pay Fitzpatrick anywhere near that number and it was widely reported that McCown was fielding offers at approximately 1/3 what we paid him. You make the mistake of acting like the limited market is a detriment to the team. It is the players problem. If the carousel stops and Hoyer just got $6M per, there are no other jobs left and you have him over a barrel. Fitzpatrick was sitting on his ass and his agent's phone would have been growing cobwebs if it weren't for retweeting Marshall and Decker. The resources are far from the problem. The team has drafted more QBs than anybody. It is the talent evaluation that is the problem, but you want to gut the team to get a draft pick and count on the same clowns to get it right. How many teams started tanking for a QB prospect in March? Insanity I'm in agreement with this ... and to think someone actually asked to get Bradaway back !!!! After we take a QB in his years draft Mccagnan will be on the hot seat to produce and not until then. Suck for Luck was a real thing. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: WTF are you talking about? 1983?!? Sanchez was #5 overall. Pennington was #18 overall. They were both picked considerably higher than Kenny O. They signed O'Donnell to a pretty huge contract at the time. I'm pretty sure that after he was hurt, and after they drafted Pennington they gave Testicles a pretty big number in renegotiation. They gave Pennington a monumental extension. I think they were still paying him after they drafted Sanchez and possibly after Sanchez obviously sucked. If you think market price is a misnomer then don't use it. It was your ******* term. Nobody was going to pay Fitzpatrick anywhere near that number and it was widely reported that McCown was fielding offers at approximately 1/3 what we paid him. You make the mistake of acting like the limited market is a detriment to the team. It is the players problem. If the carousel stops and Hoyer just got $6M per, there are no other jobs left and you have him over a barrel. Fitzpatrick was sitting on his ass and his agent's phone would have been growing cobwebs if it weren't for retweeting Marshall and Decker. The resources are far from the problem. The team has drafted more QBs than anybody. It is the talent evaluation that is the problem, but you want to gut the team to get a draft pick and count on the same clowns to get it right. How many teams started tanking for a QB prospect in March? Insanity uh, the sanchize was picked 8 years ago. nearly ten years and pennington was in 2000, 17 friggin years ago. if you think the jets have devoted a ton of resources, just go see the percentage of money the top teams throw at their qb's. i'm sure you'll find the jets way low. granted you can say they haven't found their guy yet and they drafted more qb's than any other team but then again they drafted more qb's because they haven't found one. as for kenny o, you think either pennington or sanchez were as good as obrien? are you smoking something? and isn't a limited market a player's problem as in there aren't many that can play the position? go read a book sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Macagnan will be fired in 6 months along with that Bowles so really who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 15 hours ago, Dunnie said: I'm in agreement with this ... and to think someone actually asked to get Bradaway back !!!! After we take a QB in his years draft Mccagnan will be on the hot seat to produce and not until then. Suck for Luck was a real thing. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Suck for Luck didn't happen until the season was underway and Collins got knocked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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