Maccagnan: 5 Traded Picks and 5 Contracts

[#27TheDominator]

20 hours ago, rangerous said:

market is probably a misnomer since the market is so small it's apt to be warped.  in any case my point still holds.  the jets, since obrien in 83 have really not devoted their draft to landing a top prospect nor have they gone out and brought in a "market price" qb.  they have been severely underpaying for the position for at least 10 seasons.  granted the qb's they've had haven't been very good but at the same time there's an unwillingness to part with the resources necessary to land a good one. of course most times it means stinking up the joint for a couple of seasons to ensure a great draft position.

 

13 hours ago, rangerous said:

uh, the sanchize was picked 8 years ago. nearly ten years and pennington was in 2000, 17 friggin years ago.  if you think the jets have devoted a ton of resources, just go see the percentage of money the top teams throw at their qb's.  i'm sure you'll find the jets way low.  granted you can say they haven't found their guy yet and they drafted more qb's than any other team but then again they drafted more qb's because they haven't found one.

as for kenny o, you think either pennington or sanchez were as good as obrien?  are you smoking something?

and isn't a limited market a player's problem as in there aren't many that can play the position?  go read a book sometime.

Do not ******* "uh" me.  Don't say sh*t unless you mean sh*t.  What the ****?  Do you comprehend when 1983 was?  You said it.  First you bring up paying "market price" and complain about me using it and now you complain that I bring up 2000 and 2005.  They do come after 1983.  How about this, from now on before you reply to a post I make, read the bullsh*t you wrote that I am quoting, 

A limited players market is always a problem.  That does not mean that you pay a guy that can't play like he can.  If there are 15 starting caliber QBs, but 32 QBs will start, does that mean that you should pay the 29th best QB like a starting caliber QB because... market price?

For some insane reason, you act like I support how they have handled the QB position. I do not, but it isn't because of the allocation of resources, it is because of where (who?) those resources were allocated.  I would say their biggest mistake has been acting like they had something when they didn't.  That made them sit on Pennington for so long without a true heir and then they passed over QBs because... Geno?  **** these delicate flowers like Sanchez needing his deal redone because he was upset about them going after Manning.  Throw them in the basement and the first one to claw his way out starts.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 hours ago, rangerous said:

uh, the sanchize was picked 8 years ago. nearly ten years and pennington was in 2000, 17 friggin years ago.  if you think the jets have devoted a ton of resources, just go see the percentage of money the top teams throw at their qb's.  i'm sure you'll find the jets way low.  granted you can say they haven't found their guy yet and they drafted more qb's than any other team but then again they drafted more qb's because they haven't found one.

as for kenny o, you think either pennington or sanchez were as good as obrien?  are you smoking something?

and isn't a limited market a player's problem as in there aren't many that can play the position?  go read a book sometime.

You make it sound like we drafted Pennington in 2000, drafted Sanchez in 2009, and other than that we did nothing since 1983. First off, after drafting or signing a QB, a team typically plays that QB so replacing him with another higher-investment QB doesn't happen the next day.  

• 1999: Extended Testaverde (to major QB money at age 35)
• 2000: Drafted Pennington in round 1
• 2004: Extended Pennington (to elite QB money)
• 2006: Drafted Clemens in round 2
• 2008: Traded for Brett Favre
• 2009: Drafted Sanchez in round 1 (using 1st and 2nd round picks and more, to trade up to #5 overall
• 2012: Extended Sanchez (after Manning told us to piss off) and traded for Tebow 
• 2013: Drafted Geno in round 2
• 2015: Drafted Petty in round 4
• 2016: Drafted Hackenberrg in round 2 and re-signed Fitzpatrick

This doesn't count the less-noteworthy picks and pickups over these years (Mirer, Bollinger, Q.Carter, Fiedler, Ramsey, Ainge, McElroy, Boyd, etc.), or pre-Parcells-era pickups (Esiason, O'Donnell, and whomever else I'm forgetting).

Has Seattle devoted more resources to finding a QB? They paid Hasselbeck less than we paid Pennington, then went with Tavaris Jackson, then signed Matt freaking Flynn as a FA for half what the Jets threw at Sanchez, and drafted Russell Wilson in round 3. What happened is Wilson turned out to be great, but that doesn't therefore mean they threw more resources at the position.

The Jets have devoted quite a lot of resources to the QB position. Though you seem not to realize it, what you're complaining about is results rather than resources. And duh to that since the whole country can see we've sucked at the position for years and are now tanking in 2017 to draft a QB high next year. 

[rangerous]

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Do not ******* "uh" me.  Don't say sh*t unless you mean sh*t.  What the ****?  Do you comprehend when 1983 was?  You said it.  First you bring up paying "market price" and complain about me using it and now you complain that I bring up 2000 and 2005.  They do come after 1983.  How about this, from now on before you reply to a post I make, read the bullsh*t you wrote that I am quoting, 

A limited players market is always a problem.  That does not mean that you pay a guy that can't play like he can.  If there are 15 starting caliber QBs, but 32 QBs will start, does that mean that you should pay the 29th best QB like a starting caliber QB because... market price?

For some insane reason, you act like I support how they have handled the QB position. I do not, but it isn't because of the allocation of resources, it is because of where (who?) those resources were allocated.  I would say their biggest mistake has been acting like they had something when they didn't.  That made them sit on Pennington for so long without a true heir and then they passed over QBs because... Geno?  **** these delicate flowers like Sanchez needing his deal redone because he was upset about them going after Manning.  Throw them in the basement and the first one to claw his way out starts.

uh...lighten up francis.

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You make it sound like we drafted Pennington in 2000, drafted Sanchez in 2009, and other than that we did nothing since 1983. First off, after drafting or signing a QB, a team typically plays that QB so replacing him with another higher-investment QB doesn't happen the next day.  

• 1999: Extended Testaverde (to major QB money at age 35)
• 2000: Drafted Pennington in round 1
• 2004: Extended Pennington (to elite QB money)
• 2006: Drafted Clemens in round 2
• 2008: Traded for Brett Favre
• 2009: Drafted Sanchez in round 1 (using 1st and 2nd round picks and more, to trade up to #5 overall
• 2012: Extended Sanchez (after Manning told us to piss off) and traded for Tebow 
• 2013: Drafted Geno in round 2
• 2015: Drafted Petty in round 4
• 2016: Drafted Hackenberrg in round 2 and re-signed Fitzpatrick

This doesn't count the less-noteworthy picks and pickups over these years (Mirer, Bollinger, Q.Carter, Fiedler, Ramsey, Ainge, McElroy, Boyd, etc.), or pre-Parcells-era pickups (Esiason, O'Donnell, and whomever else I'm forgetting).

Has Seattle devoted more resources to finding a QB? They paid Hasselbeck less than we paid Pennington, then went with Tavaris Jackson, then signed Matt freaking Flynn as a FA for half what the Jets threw at Sanchez, and drafted Russell Wilson in round 3. What happened is Wilson turned out to be great, but that doesn't therefore mean they threw more resources at the position.

The Jets have devoted quite a lot of resources to the QB position. Though you seem not to realize it, what you're complaining about is results rather than resources. And duh to that since the whole country can see we've sucked at the position for years and are now tanking in 2017 to draft a QB high next year. 

okay, i'll bite a bit.  resources come in many forms.  money is one and for the past 7 or so seasons the jets have been paying short money for the most important player on the field.  yes they have drafted a bunch of qb's but besides sanchez did they ever reach for one?  and i don't mean trading up a few places in the 3rd or lower rounds?  not to my knowledge, anyway.  and looking back at geno, who was at one time slated to be the top pick in his draft, does that mean they put enough resources on scouting the guy? apparently not or they might have picked minter or collins or just about any other player.  funny how the top qb prospect in the draft gets passed by by every team in the first round and then gets picked by the jets at 39.  2013 was an extremely poor draft for qb's.

the bottom line is when the jets get serious about getting a qb they will get one.  and hopefully their coaching staff will put him in a position to win games.  i know it seems like a circular argument and in some ways it is. and while we're at it, let's not forget about the rex circus that did nothing but get sanchez killed in pre season.  arguably rex took a good prospect, sanchez, and ruined him.

[#27TheDominator]

56 minutes ago, rangerous said:

uh...lighten up francis.

[rangerous]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

nice picture.  friend of yours?

[thadude]

7 hours ago, rangerous said:

the bottom line is when the jets get serious about getting a qb they will get one. 

Wow I had no idea we hadn't been looking for a qb for 20 years.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, rangerous said:

okay, i'll bite a bit.  resources come in many forms.  money is one and for the past 7 or so seasons the jets have been paying short money for the most important player on the field.  yes they have drafted a bunch of qb's but besides sanchez did they ever reach for one?  and i don't mean trading up a few places in the 3rd or lower rounds?  not to my knowledge, anyway.  and looking back at geno, who was at one time slated to be the top pick in his draft, does that mean they put enough resources on scouting the guy? apparently not or they might have picked minter or collins or just about any other player.  funny how the top qb prospect in the draft gets passed by by every team in the first round and then gets picked by the jets at 39.  2013 was an extremely poor draft for qb's.

the bottom line is when the jets get serious about getting a qb they will get one.  and hopefully their coaching staff will put him in a position to win games.  i know it seems like a circular argument and in some ways it is. and while we're at it, let's not forget about the rex circus that did nothing but get sanchez killed in pre season.  arguably rex took a good prospect, sanchez, and ruined him.

So according to you, when the Jets take one prospect who rose due to a poor QB draft, and he's bad, it means he was ruined by the Jets. When they take another prospect, and he's also bad, it means the team didn't do its homework on him. Convenient position to take, even if it has no basis in reality.

I suppose you missed the clips of the TDs your preferred-one underthrew, or threw a couple feet off-target in general, to wide open USC receivers - TD passes that would have been batted down or intercepted in even moderate coverage - as well as his own college HC giving him a backhanded compliment of him not being "ready" for the pros (as though he was ever going to be a top QB). Yeah, #homework. 

 

NFL teams draft and pick up FA busts, especially at QB because despite any number of #resources put into the position the simple reality is there aren't enough on the planet to go around and they feel it's worth the gamble (e.g. the savior drafting Hackenberg). It doesn't therefore mean there were inadequate resources put into the position. The Jets put far more resources into finding a QB than Seattle, who would have ended up with nothing if some other team had bit on Wilson any number of slots before their pick.

• Did Seattle "do their homework" on the QB position when they gave Matt Flynn that ridiculous contract? Would you have still considered the Seahawks as a team that did its homework if someone else had snagged Russell Wilson before the 75th pick? 
• Did New England do their homework when they took Dave Stachelski, Jeff Marriott, and Antwan Harris with back-to-back-to-back late-round picks over Tom Brady?
• I suppose Dallas did their homework by waiting until the bottom of round 4 for Dak Prescott, and risk missing out on him in the previous 50+ picks.
• Perhaps you further believe the Colts did their homework on Andrew Luck, and that's why they gave Peyton Manning a $90m, 5-year extension on July 30, 2011.
• Need I go on?

It's a load of ****.

Not to mention, if you want to take the position that homework = resources, you must really hate this current regime for not doing its "homework" on Ryan Fitzpatrick before re-inking him to that preposterous $12m for 2016, or for failing to pony up the #resources to move up for Wentz and Mariota in his first 2 years, or anyone he wanted in year 3. Well at least we didn't trade up and lose out on what was then a 4th DE-DT, plus a head-case ILB and the top ranked safety in a 20-safety draft.

So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

 

[rangerous]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So according to you, when the Jets take one prospect who rose due to a poor QB draft, and he's bad, it means he was ruined by the Jets. When they take another prospect, and he's also bad, it means the team didn't do its homework on him. Convenient position to take, even if it has no basis in reality.

I suppose you missed the clips of the TDs your preferred-one underthrew, or threw a couple feet off-target in general, to wide open USC receivers - TD passes that would have been batted down or intercepted in even moderate coverage - as well as his own college HC giving him a backhanded compliment of him not being "ready" for the pros (as though he was ever going to be a top QB). Yeah, #homework. 

 

NFL teams draft and pick up FA busts, especially at QB because despite any number of #resources put into the position the simple reality is there aren't enough on the planet to go around and they feel it's worth the gamble (e.g. the savior drafting Hackenberg). It doesn't therefore mean there were inadequate resources put into the position. The Jets put far more resources into finding a QB than Seattle, who would have ended up with nothing if some other team had bit on Wilson any number of slots before their pick.

• Did Seattle "do their homework" on the QB position when they gave Matt Flynn that ridiculous contract? Would you have still considered the Seahawks as a team that did its homework if someone else had snagged Russell Wilson before the 75th pick? 
• Did New England do their homework when they took Dave Stachelski, Jeff Marriott, and Antwan Harris with back-to-back-to-back late-round picks over Tom Brady?
• I suppose Dallas did their homework by waiting until the bottom of round 4 for Dak Prescott, and risk missing out on him in the previous 50+ picks.
• Perhaps you further believe the Colts did their homework on Andrew Luck, and that's why they gave Peyton Manning a $90m, 5-year extension on July 30, 2011.
• Need I go on?

It's a load of ****.

Not to mention, if you want to take the position that homework = resources, you must really hate this current regime for not doing its "homework" on Ryan Fitzpatrick before re-inking him to that preposterous $12m for 2016, or for failing to pony up the #resources to move up for Wentz and Mariota in his first 2 years, or anyone he wanted in year 3. Well at least we didn't trade up and lose out on what was then a 4th DE-DT, plus a head-case ILB and the top ranked safety in a 20-safety draft.

So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

 

really? did geno take the jets anywhere? at least sanchez, for all his faults got them to 2 afc championship games.  and yes the rex circus did ruin him so i'm not sure where your beef is.  as for fitz in 2016, i don't think anyone, including yourself, thought that last season would be so bad.  and as many have pointed out this was a whole team issue.  you can't pin the team failure just on fitz. you know better.  fitz wasn't the reason why revis gave up huge gains or wilk has 2.5 sacks or shelly had 2.5 sacks and so on. i have my opinion as to what went wrong and a lot of it centers around fitz and geno and the team dynamic.

and those mentioned teams did do their homework. flynn was sent packing without any concern about what his cap hit was because it was zero. and in hindsight, brady was a darn good pick to make in the 6th round.  he was successful in a big time program. the only surprising thing thing is he wasn't picked earlier.

if anyone wants to believe you then why bother at all.  if the whole bunch of player metrics is so chaotic then maybe they just should throw darts.

[thadude]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

really? did geno take the jets anywhere? at least sanchez, for all his faults got them to 2 afc championship games.  and yes the rex circus did ruin him so i'm not sure where your beef is.  as for fitz in 2016, i don't think anyone, including yourself, thought that last season would be so bad.  and as many have pointed out this was a whole team issue.  you can't pin the team failure just on fitz. you know better.  fitz wasn't the reason why revis gave up huge gains or wilk has 2.5 sacks or shelly had 2.5 sacks and so on. i have my opinion as to what went wrong and a lot of it centers around fitz and geno and the team dynamic.

and those mentioned teams did do their homework. flynn was sent packing without any concern about what his cap hit was because it was zero. and in hindsight, brady was a darn good pick to make in the 6th round.  he was successful in a big time program. the only surprising thing thing is he wasn't picked earlier.

if anyone wants to believe you then why bother at all.  if the whole bunch of player metrics is so chaotic then maybe they just should throw darts.

Fitz had 12 td and 17 int last season and those stats would be significantly worse but he got benched before the wheels could really fall off

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, rangerous said:

really? did geno take the jets anywhere? at least sanchez, for all his faults got them to 2 afc championship games.  and yes the rex circus did ruin him so i'm not sure where your beef is.  as for fitz in 2016, i don't think anyone, including yourself, thought that last season would be so bad.  and as many have pointed out this was a whole team issue.  you can't pin the team failure just on fitz. you know better.  fitz wasn't the reason why revis gave up huge gains or wilk has 2.5 sacks or shelly had 2.5 sacks and so on. i have my opinion as to what went wrong and a lot of it centers around fitz and geno and the team dynamic.

and those mentioned teams did do their homework. flynn was sent packing without any concern about what his cap hit was because it was zero. and in hindsight, brady was a darn good pick to make in the 6th round.  he was successful in a big time program. the only surprising thing thing is he wasn't picked earlier.

if anyone wants to believe you then why bother at all.  if the whole bunch of player metrics is so chaotic then maybe they just should throw darts.

lol it's amazing if you actually believe this

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lol it's amazing if you actually believe this

The Fitzlovers still rage strong.  How did Fitz barely get a backup gig in Tampa he should have had GM's falling over each other to sign him to start