Did NFL ruin itself by making the league QB centric?

[thadude]

11 hours ago, Ghost420 said:

It was the most watched NBA Finals since the 90s. YA people are tuning out alright.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/nba-regular-season-ratings-1202031083/

NBA Regular-Season Ratings Dipped in 2016-17

ABC, ESPN, and TNT saw NBA viewership decline slightly in the 2016-17 regular season, the first covered under a multi-billion-dollar contract extension between the league and its television partners that reaches through 2024-25.

National NBA telecasts across the three channels and cable network NBA TV averaged 1.19 million total viewers for the season ending on Wednesday — down 6% from the 2015-16 season, but even with the average from 2014-15. Under a new television deal, the three networks combined to broadcast 19 more games than last season.

 

RELATED

NBA Must Consider TV Partners in Game Plan for Resting Players

 

The addition of more than a dozen and a half games — including 11 Monday-night games on TNT, which did not have a Monday-night telecast in 2015-16 — contributed to the downward tick in viewership. TNT, for example, averaged 1.5 million viewers, down 8% from last season. But when discounting the new Monday-night games, TNT was even with last season’s 1.7 million. (The additional games far outpaced the entertainment programming that TNT aired on comparable Monday nights last season.) Disney-owned ESPN and ABC averaged 1.9 million viewers, down 5% from last season, when they aired eight less games combined.

 

 

 

Increases in streaming viewership also contributed to television decreases. ESPN digital platforms averaged 45,000 viewers per minute, up 18% from 38,000 last season.

The 6% decline across networks was also in line with a general downward trend in live sports viewing, one that was compounded by last year’s presidential election campaign and the subsequent news cycles, which drove eyeballs to cable news programming. Viewership for the NFL, which has become accustomed to regular year-to-year growth, was down 8% in 2016 from the previous season. Network executives have also groused about the impact of NBA teams resting star players in late-season games — and removing the top attractions from telecasts.

Under a new contract that went into effect this season, ESPN, which produces the ABC telecasts, and TNT are paying a combined $2.66 billion per year to broadcast NBA games.

Heading into the playoffs, which begin Saturday, league and network officials can draw encouragement from high ratings for the NBA’s premiere regular-season events, including opening night and All-Star Game telecasts that were the most watched since 2013.

[thadude]

1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

Wilson had 26 tds with 9 picks and completed 63% of his passes.. When Denver won that was totally on the D..Peyton was 9 td's and 17 picks and Osweiler 10 tds and 6 picks... 

The people on this board who hate on Russell Wilson just amaze me.

[slats]

17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This really only works until you have a third and eight in the fourth quarter of a playoff game, though.

 

if the NFL wants to fix their ratings, get rid of Thursday Night games. If they want to fix their QB problem, trade the players partially guaranteed deals in exchange for waiving restrictions on practice time. There's no reason Hackenberg, Mariota, Winston, etc shouldn't be in a film room with their QB coaches five days a week, fifty weeks a year. 

Obviously, you need a QB still. Some semblance of a passing game. But I think the Cowboys are well positioned to be that power running team that runs over small defenses, with Dak getting the credit but really playing something of a complimentary role at QB. That had to be the Jaguars' hope when they picked up Fournette. 

Otherwise, good suggestions. Guaranteed money in exchange for more contact in practice seems like a fair trade-off to me. Under the current rules, the first few weeks of the regular season still look like preseason games as players get back up to speed. 

[Charlie Brown]

14 hours ago, nicg4360 said:

I do have a problem with certain QBs getting a lot of penalties called based on who they are. You know who I'm talking about. I guess that will be a benefit once the jets get "their guy".

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app
 

But even if we do get such a "QB" is that "right"?

I don't want players on my team getting preferential treatment and us pretending like it is not happening like with many Pats fans. 

If you have two sets of rules that are that dramatically different, that fans across the spectrum complain about, you have IMO a fundamental problem with the game. 

[thadude]

4 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Kids today and for the last 15 years have avoided sports for video games. 

That has more to do with lower ratings than anything else. 

 

The times are a changin

The millenials are ruining everything.  Fantasy Football is actually helping the NFL with the millenials because it's so intertwined with smartphones and technology

[Jet_Engine1]

I hope Don Yee is able to get something done with his lawsuit against the NCAA and creates some alternate path of some sort of Development league. You know, have a place where 20 year old QBs can be taught how to take the ball from under center and operate in a huddle etc.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Wilson had 26 tds with 9 picks and completed 63% of his passes.. When Denver won that was totally on the D..Peyton was 9 td's and 17 picks and Osweiler 10 tds and 6 picks... 

Wow, I knew Peyton wasn't that good by then but didn't realize his stats were THAT BAD.  I had to confirm them but you are correct.  9 TDs and 17 INTs for Peyton in regular season for a super bowl winning QB.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm

[nicg4360]

But even if we do get such a "QB" is that "right"?
I don't want players on my team getting preferential treatment and us pretending like it is not happening like with many Pats fans. 
If you have two sets of rules that are that dramatically different, that fans across the spectrum complain about, you have IMO a fundamental problem with the game. 

Yea I never said that was right...as you can see I feel it's wrong some teams get preferential treatment to protect their stars. As much as it is good to protect their stars they end up looking like wimps...then you see petty get lit up like in Miami and get knocked into the next century and everyone is fairly ok with it. In the end teams take what is given them and yes teams like the Pats take advantage.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[bitonti]

Once upon a time the heavyweight boxing championship was the pinnacle of sports

then it was the World Series

then it was the Super Bowl 

soon it will be something else. Maybe the NBA finals, maybe soccer, maybe Lacrosse, maybe Esports (video games). 

but remember nothing lasts forever. And we can blame millennials or whatever but time marches on. 

[Rexorcism]

Ratings are going down. League is transforming into something different. In the new NFL if you have a QB you compete year in year out. If not, you suck until you find a QB.  

Do you think this rating trend continues? If yes, how much of it is due to QB centric league? 

No the NFL is ruining itself by joining all the other aholes and going PC with everything. Enough with corporate BS, enough with allowing privledged ahole players to kneel during the anthem, enough with pink all October, enough jamming Viagara and stupid white man commercials down our throat...Enough already. F'em, Im sick of it.

[bitonti]

by the way winning teams always needed a QB.

even in the most Parcellsian ball control offense you need a Phil Simms or a Trent Dilfer to make a key pass on 3rd and long. That QB doesn't need to be a superstar but it should be noted that Simms and Dilfer were both top 10 first round picks. 

[thadude]

19 minutes ago, bitonti said:

by the way winning teams always needed a QB.

even in the most Parcellsian ball control offense you need a Phil Simms or a Trent Dilfer to make a key pass on 3rd and long. That QB doesn't need to be a superstar but it should be noted that Simms and Dilfer were both top 10 first round picks. 

The rules favoring offense are out of control.  Geno Smith and MarkSanchez both have had 3,000 yard passing seasons in the 80's and 90's that would have never happened 

[thadude]

30 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

No the NFL is ruining itself by joining all the other aholes and going PC with everything. Enough with corporate BS, enough with allowing privledged ahole players to kneel during the anthem, enough with pink all October, enough jamming Viagara and stupid white man commercials down our throat...Enough already. F'em, Im sick of it.

The NFL would have to have a rule in the CBA prohibiting players from kneeling during the national anthem.  I don't like Kaepernick either but the NFL had no legal recourse to punish him last season

 

The NBA's ratings are down 6% because it too like the NFL has rewritten it's rule book to favor offense

[Fibonacci]

Also what's with that Viagra commercials. I can't watch a football game with my kids. I resort to Red Zone channel all day when they are around. Who thought it would be OK to show Erectile Dysfunction commercials while 9 year olds were watching. Fvck NFL for that matter. 

[thadude]

3 minutes ago, Fibonacci said:

Also what's with that Viagra commercials. I can't watch a football game with my kids. I resort to Red Zone channel all day when they are around. Who thought it would be OK to show Erectile Dysfunction commercials while 9 year olds were watching. Fvck NFL for that matter. 

Kids gotta lean about birds and bees sooner or later

[nycdan]

4 hours ago, Freemanm said:

The league has been QB centric since forever. In the 80's, we saw Joe Montana, John Elway and Joe Theisman every year. In the 90's how many times did we see Troy Aikman and Jim Kelly in the Super Bowl? If anything, teams that didn't have great QBs started winning in the early 2000s (Ravens, Bucs). So I don't see how this pattern has changed all that much.

I think there's a bit of memory bias going on with a few people in this thread.  Here is a list of the SB QBs in the 1980s (starting with 1980 season).

Super Bowl 15. Jim Plunkett (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 16. Joe Montana (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 17. Joe Theismann (John Riggins), 2 TDs,
Super Bowl 18. Jim Plunkett (Marcus Allen), 1 TD
Super Bowl 19. Joe Montana (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 20. Jim McMahon (Richard Dent), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 21. Phil Simms (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 22. Doug Williams (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 23. Joe Montana (Jerry Rice), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 24. Joe Montana (MVP), 5 TDs

In addition to Plunkett, McMahon, Simms and WIlliams (some of whom had great games but weren't HoF QBs) some of their opponents included Ron Jaworski, Ken Anderson, David Woodley, Tony Eason and Boomer Esiason.  Great defenses mattered in the 80s.  So did having a 'good' QB catch fire at the right time.  I think it's far worse now than it was back then with regard to haves and have-nots.

 

[nycdan]

11 minutes ago, Fibonacci said:

Also what's with that Viagra commercials. I can't watch a football game with my kids. I resort to Red Zone channel all day when they are around. Who thought it would be OK to show Erectile Dysfunction commercials while 9 year olds were watching. Fvck NFL for that matter. 

Our owner's name is Woody Johnson.  

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, nicg4360 said:

Yea I never said that was right...as you can see I feel it's wrong some teams get preferential treatment to protect their stars. As much as it is good to protect their stars they end up looking like wimps...then you see petty get lit up like in Miami and get knocked into the next century and everyone is fairly ok with it. In the end teams take what is given them and yes teams like the Pats take advantage.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I agree 100%

My oringal post should have been more clear.  I was agreeing with you and just taking it further.  I understood what you were saying and the spirit in which you said it. 

You were right 100% correct in that first post as well. 

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, thadude said:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/nba-regular-season-ratings-1202031083/

NBA Regular-Season Ratings Dipped in 2016-17

ABC, ESPN, and TNT saw NBA viewership decline slightly in the 2016-17 regular season, the first covered under a multi-billion-dollar contract extension between the league and its television partners that reaches through 2024-25.

National NBA telecasts across the three channels and cable network NBA TV averaged 1.19 million total viewers for the season ending on Wednesday — down 6% from the 2015-16 season, but even with the average from 2014-15. Under a new television deal, the three networks combined to broadcast 19 more games than last season.

 

RELATED

NBA Must Consider TV Partners in Game Plan for Resting Players

 

The addition of more than a dozen and a half games — including 11 Monday-night games on TNT, which did not have a Monday-night telecast in 2015-16 — contributed to the downward tick in viewership. TNT, for example, averaged 1.5 million viewers, down 8% from last season. But when discounting the new Monday-night games, TNT was even with last season’s 1.7 million. (The additional games far outpaced the entertainment programming that TNT aired on comparable Monday nights last season.) Disney-owned ESPN and ABC averaged 1.9 million viewers, down 5% from last season, when they aired eight less games combined.

 

 

 

Increases in streaming viewership also contributed to television decreases. ESPN digital platforms averaged 45,000 viewers per minute, up 18% from 38,000 last season.

The 6% decline across networks was also in line with a general downward trend in live sports viewing, one that was compounded by last year’s presidential election campaign and the subsequent news cycles, which drove eyeballs to cable news programming. Viewership for the NFL, which has become accustomed to regular year-to-year growth, was down 8% in 2016 from the previous season. Network executives have also groused about the impact of NBA teams resting star players in late-season games — and removing the top attractions from telecasts.

Under a new contract that went into effect this season, ESPN, which produces the ABC telecasts, and TNT are paying a combined $2.66 billion per year to broadcast NBA games.

Heading into the playoffs, which begin Saturday, league and network officials can draw encouragement from high ratings for the NBA’s premiere regular-season events, including opening night and All-Star Game telecasts that were the most watched since 2013.

Thank you. 

I started a post and then deleted it because folks just want to make stuff up.  

The game that the NBA is now creating is not that good except for the finals and except for one upset game by Cleveland the finals weren't that good themselves.  

[rangerous]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:36 PM, Greenseed4 said:

Interesting take, but it's "QB centric" because of the rules which protect the QB. 

Take those away and we have even fewer healthy QBs. 

I like watching good QB play

 

I'd rather explore options that produce more NFL-ready QBs. Like the league that pays college age players to not go to college, rather hone their skill set and prepare for the NFL. 

 

you take away the qb protection rules and then allow the cb's to fight the wr's more on their routes and we'll probably see a much better game with more plays being important.  right now it seems like games (even jet wins or losses) can be traced to a handful of plays where the execution was bad or the refs stuck their noses into it.

[BurnleyJet]

They are taking the physical from the game. I remember when Receivers like Welker or Julian Edelman, would be in a box. The defenceless receiver helped QB's and made it much easier to go over the middle.

The CTE has the NFL worried, so dialling back on Hard hits is the new NFL. It's never going to be the same. It makes the league much more about the QB. 

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you. 

I started a post and then deleted it because folks just want to make stuff up.  

The game that the NBA is now creating is not that good except for the finals and except for one upset game by Cleveland the finals weren't that good themselves.  

They keep this up the tv ratings for regular season NBA and NFL are really going to go into the toilet in a couple years.  Featherweight boxing matches were getting better ratings than some NBA games on TNT and ESPN last year

[predator_05]

The QB position hasn't changed, but the league wants more high scoring games and less physicality. Rule changes have led to inflated offensive stats across the board, i mean you have Blake Bortles throwing for 4400 yards now. 4k was supposed to be the threshold for the elite QBs, now every moron with a half decent arm can throw for that many.

Except our QB of course, we're cursed no matter how offense-friendly the rules may become.

[jgb]

No it didn't ruin itself. Considering only about 20 QBs are watchable and can keep a game competitive, they need to protect those guys. The product would be putrid if half the teams were playing with their #2 or #3 guy by end of year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

[JustInFudge]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:42 PM, slats said:

I think you'll see that, or something similar, soon. As defenses continue to get smaller and faster in reaction to the QB friendly rules, someone is going to start steamrolling them with a power running game. And then, well, it is a copycat league. 

Agreed. 

The other factor is that QB's just arent being developed in college.  Everyone comes from some form of the spread, only taking snaps from shotgun, never having to read a defense, getting their calls in before the snap from the side lines and then they basically have to break everything down and start over in the NFL.

I think both of these factors could help see a return to the power run game.  I dont see it happening immediately but once Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben are out of the league...you could see this spread league wide and Rex Ryan will become the hottest coaching commodity in the NFL and hopefully the Jets bring him back.

[Beerfish]

Protecting the QBs from late hits is not an issue.

Having horrible punitive cheesy pass interference  calls while ignoring blatant oline holding is a problem.

Awful awful pass catching rules in which not one person knows what a cat is or isn't on any given play is a problem.

Too much power being given to coaches in game by letting them call time outs is a problem.

 

[nicg4360]

Protecting the QBs from late hits is not an issue.
Having horrible punitive cheesy pass interference  calls while ignoring blatant oline holding is a problem.
Awful awful pass catching rules in which not one person knows what a cat is or isn't on any given play is a problem.
Too much power being given to coaches in game by letting them call time outs is a problem.
 

I know it didn't matter much but in the SB in overtime seeing the Pats get that interference call and line them up on the 1 yard line 1st down was just a joke. I get it rules are rules but honestly that just about made me sick when the game was decided then and there.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

I know it didn't matter much but in the SB in overtime seeing the Pats get that interference call and line them up on the 1 yard line 1st down was just a joke. I get it rules are rules but honestly that just about made me sick when the game was decided then and there.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

To be fair 31/32 QBs in the NFL don't get that call


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[thadude]

11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Protecting the QBs from late hits is not an issue.

Having horrible punitive cheesy pass interference  calls while ignoring blatant oline holding is a problem

[rex-n-effect]

The offense-friendly rule changes in 1994 probably saved the game from years of decline. It was inevitable that the game would go this direction. 

It's hard to seriously argue the NFL ruined itself as it has attracted an increasingly larger audience every year but last year, which can be explained by many other factors than a failure of the NFL. Even if NFL live viewing declines a little, the NFL is making up for it by diversifying its audience experience with the NFL Network, youtube vids (ad dollars), etc. which all depend upon lots of exciting plays to cut up. Nobody is watching NFLN talk about field goals all day. It also blew up fantasy football which creates more NFLN content and other streams of revenue. They might be losing some casual fans to boring games but they are making up for it with the dedication of fantasy football fans who are more likely to spend money to the NFL. The NFL is a business and business is very good. 

I would agree that the NFL has taken its rules to such extremes that player disparity among teams has made the league as a whole less interesting to watch but the same could be said for the 1980s when a handful of teams dominated the league. Maybe we are seeing the other side of the peak of this model of the NFL after years of a small number of teams dominating the league every year (like in the early 90s) but as long as the money flows the game won't change.

[BUM-KNEE]

Of course the NFL hung itself.

Nobody wants to watch QBs getting away with murder, let alone the defense hog tied as to what they can "legaly do". Football is more than that.

[Raideraholic]

On June 18, 2017 at 10:54 AM, slats said:

Obviously, you need a QB still. Some semblance of a passing game. But I think the Cowboys are well positioned to be that power running team that runs over small defenses, with Dak getting the credit but really playing something of a complimentary role at QB. That had to be the Jaguars' hope when they picked up Fournette. 

Otherwise, good suggestions. Guaranteed money in exchange for more contact in practice seems like a fair trade-off to me. Under the current rules, the first few weeks of the regular season still look like preseason games as players get back up to speed. 

The Raiders might be more setup to be that power running team than any team in football.  With the addition of Beastmode behind one of the most physical offense lines.( that interior part of their offenseline- Osemele, Hudson, and G Jackson probably had the most pancake blocks last year). Throw in Te Lee Smith one of the best blocking Te's in the game.

They added so many more pieces to the offense this offseason .  Te Jared Cook- gives them a Te to attack the seam down the middle, Cordealle Patterson - deep threat/ Decoy + quick screens( get the ball fast to one of the premier return mans with space), and Beastmode- tough to put that many defenders in the box when they have so many weapons that will hurt you if you have that many defenders near line of scrimmage. 

[LWC611]

On 6/17/2017 at 7:10 PM, Kevin L said:

Very true. It's always been like that. It's no surprise that the majority of Super Bowl winning QBs are Hall of Famers.

It is also true that most of your Hall of Fame coaches coached hall of fame QBs.  QB has always been the most important position on the field.

[nyjunc]

NYG won 2 SBs w/ mediocre QB

Last year Miami made playoffs w/ Matt Moore

Houston made playoffs w/ Osweiler(and Denver the year before winning SB w/ awful QB play in playoffs)

 

Mediocre QBs make the playoffs often.  Brady and Rodgers are all time greats(and so was Peyton pre 2015) so always have their teams in contention but the others go up and down.

[nyjunc]

and ratings are down among most sports.  I do think some of the off field stuff played a role last year and our Country is going down the toilet, soccer is becoming somewhat popular and our fans are turning into soccer fans- we are turning into Europe.  the good old days are over.