Did NFL ruin itself by making the league QB centric?

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, LWC611 said:

It is also true that most of your Hall of Fame coaches coached hall of fame QBs.  QB has always been the most important position on the field.

Parcells won 2 w/o a HOFer

Shula made a SB w/ David Woodley

Gibbs won 3 w/o HOF QBs

Dan marino never won one

Elway never won one until TD became the focus of the offense

Peyton was carried by his D in both SB wins

 

A great QB gives you an advantage but guarantees nothing.  we went into Foxboro w/ Mark Sanchez and whipped Tom Brady and the Pats in the playoffs one year.

[Augustiniak]

to answer the OP, no.  the problem we have had is that this organization has put no emphasis on developing qbs since forever.  if we had a good qb we wouldn't be debating this.

[RedBeardedSavage]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:43 PM, T0mShane said:

This really only works until you have a third and eight in the fourth quarter of a playoff game, though.

 

if the NFL wants to fix their ratings, get rid of Thursday Night games. If they want to fix their QB problem, trade the players partially guaranteed deals in exchange for waiving restrictions on practice time. There's no reason Hackenberg, Mariota, Winston, etc shouldn't be in a film room with their QB coaches five days a week, fifty weeks a year. 

I like this.

Also think the pass interference/defensive holding rules need to revert back to the early 2000's/late 1990's.  The defensive secondary is completely outmatched these days, by design.  I think that was a mistake.  

[shawn306]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I like this.

Also think the pass interference/defensive holding rules need to revert back to the early 2000's/late 1990's.  The defensive secondary is completely outmatched these days, by design.  I think that was a mistake.  

You can also throw in the fact the WR's are running across with the middle with absolutely no fear anymore because DB's cannot launch themselves into these guys anymore.

Guys like Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Brian Dawkins would just waste guys who would venture over the middle of the field. If they did that now they would get fined and probably suspended.

[Adoni Beast]

Yes the league has definitely been an inferior product overall, for the simple fact that you negate the importance of the rest of the team. 

Football was/is the ultimate team sport. I loved how there were so many different types of teams in the league, most of them good. 

Power run, west coast passing, deep ball passing, big d's, quick d's, etc. you could build a super bowl team in a variety of ways with a legitmate shot. 

Now its all about the qb. Winning a championship otherwise is near impossible. 

So now all you see are teams overdrafting and rushing these qb's in hopes they'll strike lightning and be the guy.

[LWC611]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Parcells won 2 w/o a HOFer

Shula made a SB w/ David Woodley

Gibbs won 3 w/o HOF QBs

Dan marino never won one

Elway never won one until TD became the focus of the offense

Peyton was carried by his D in both SB wins

 

A great QB gives you an advantage but guarantees nothing.  we went into Foxboro w/ Mark Sanchez and whipped Tom Brady and the Pats in the playoffs one year.

I believe I said "It is also true that most of your Hall of Fame coaches coached hall of fame QBs."  Shula won the SB with Bob Griese a HOF QB so the fact that he went with Woodley is irrelevant.   The point of my statement was that there is a definitive connection between HOF QBs and HOF Coaches. Not that it is a gurantee of success. Marv Levy and Jim Kelly are examples of the fact it is not a guarantee of SB success.    I know that Parcells and Gibbs made it to HOF without a HOF QB but they are in the minority, a very small minority at that . 

[RedBeardedSavage]

54 minutes ago, shawn306 said:

You can also throw in the fact the WR's are running across with the middle with absolutely no fear anymore because DB's cannot launch themselves into these guys anymore.

Guys like Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Brian Dawkins would just waste guys who would venture over the middle of the field. If they did that now they would get fined and probably suspended.

I agree that had an effect.  And I agree I enjoyed watching the more violent version football.  But I can at least understand that rule - it's about safety/concussions/cte.

The defensive holding and pass interference changes don't have anything to do with safety; but rather everything to do with offense/high-scoring = ratings.  Which I think worked in the short term, but will have a longer lasting negative effect long term.  

The 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens could not win a Super Bowl in this league; and that, I think, is a shame.   

[nyjunc]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:01 PM, LWC611 said:

I believe I said "It is also true that most of your Hall of Fame coaches coached hall of fame QBs."  Shula won the SB with Bob Griese a HOF QB so the fact that he went with Woodley is irrelevant.   The point of my statement was that there is a definitive connection between HOF QBs and HOF Coaches. Not that it is a gurantee of success. Marv Levy and Jim Kelly are examples of the fact it is not a guarantee of SB success.    I know that Parcells and Gibbs made it to HOF without a HOF QB but they are in the minority, a very small minority at that . 

Shula also went undefeated in 1972 when that HOF QB barely played.  the truly great coaches can win w/ almost anyone.  Let's look at the HOF coaches in SB era:

 

George Allen: made SB w/ Billy Kilmer

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King

Joe Gibbs: won SBs w/ Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien

Bud Grant: made SB w/ Joe Kapp

Tom Landry: made SB w/ Craig Morton, made 3 straight title games w/ Danny White

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game)

Don Shula: backup led undefeated season, made SB w/ David Woodley

Parcells: won SBs w/ Simms & Hostetler, made another w/ DREW BLEDSOE

 

 

[jetscrazey]

Look, I don't like the supreme importance of the QB position any more than you do.  But you could also argue even in the 80s/90s it was like this.  Usually only a few elite QBs have had real success.

If we're getting specific, I have more of a problem with the rules being stacked in favor of WRs over DBs.  And also late hits on QBs.  The defenseless recevier stuff also makes no sense.

[Lil Woody]

32 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Look, I don't like the supreme importance of the QB position any more than you do.  But you could also argue even in the 80s/90s it was like this.  Usually only a few elite QBs have had real success.

If we're getting specific, I have more of a problem with the rules being stacked in favor of WRs over DBs.  And also late hits on QBs.  The defenseless recevier stuff also makes no sense.

You could also make the case that a team without a QB could reasonably offer a counterpunch (usually by way of a ball control power running offense) to the team who did have one and there was a fair contest to be had.  Now the counter to not having a QB is what?  I mean even in a best case scenario which is entirely unsustainable for 20 games...to play keep away with the TOP and build an elite defense to play the opponent hard for 3.75 quarters of football just to let the refs throw a flag party to keep the last 2 minutes interesting and the last team with the ball wins?  I mean giving a team the ball back with 40 seconds on the 20 is generally considered to be leaving them too much time. In the 80s if they were down a TD with 2:00 (some would even say 4:00) left the odds were against them by a huge margin. I'd say that QB was always the most important player on the field in just about every era, but there is massive difference from the way the game is played then vs the way the game is played now and everything is dependent on QB play.  That's insane considering there are 32 teams and on the average...what only like 20 quality Qbs in the NFL at any given time?

[thadude]

6 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Shula also went undefeated in 1972 when that HOF QB barely played.  the truly great coaches can win w/ almost anyone.  Let's look at the HOF coaches in SB era:

 

George Allen: made SB w/ Billy Kilmer

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King

Joe Gibbs: won SBs w/ Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien

Bud Grant: made SB w/ Joe Kapp

Tom Landry: made SB w/ Craig Morton, made 3 straight title games w/ Danny White

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game)

Don Shula: backup led undefeated season, made SB w/ David Woodley

Parcells: won SBs w/ Simms & Hostetler, made another w/ DREW BLEDSOE

 

 

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King (NFC was very weak that season and no one had tape on King)

Joe Gibbs: won SBs w/ Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien (Rypien had 3,500 passing yards 28tds and 11ints that season and that's when defenses were allowed to play)

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game) (Are you kidding?  Jim Kelly is arguably one of the greatest QB's of all-time, that offense he had would tear up today's NFL)

Parcells: won SBs w/ Simms & Hostetler, made another w/ DREW BLEDSOE (all good quarterbacks)

[LWC611]

15 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Shula also went undefeated in 1972 when that HOF QB barely played.  the truly great coaches can win w/ almost anyone.  Let's look at the HOF coaches in SB era:

 

George Allen: made SB w/ Billy Kilmer

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King

Joe Gibbs: won SBs w/ Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien

Bud Grant: made SB w/ Joe Kapp

Tom Landry: made SB w/ Craig Morton, made 3 straight title games w/ Danny White

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game)

Don Shula: backup led undefeated season, made SB w/ David Woodley

Parcells: won SBs w/ Simms & Hostetler, made another w/ DREW BLEDSOE

 

 

I think we are talking past each other.  I do not disagree with your point that it is not a guarantee of success, but you have yet to disprove my point.  Against my better judgement I will continue this conversation.

I have already acknowledged that Gibbs and Parcells are in the HOF as coaches and did not have a HOF QB. So why you continue to trot these two out as examples beats me... So here is you list below editied to delete the individuals for which there is no dispute

George Allen: made SB w/ Billy Kilmer  I think I have to give you this point, but I am going to do some research. 

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King.  This statement ignores the fact that he spent the last six years of his coaching career in Indianapolis where I believe he coached Peyton Manning and actually won a SB.  I hope that we can agree that Peyton Manning will be an HOF QB.

Bud Grant: made SB w/ Joe Kapp, This statement ignores the fact that he went to the SB three times after that with Fran Tarkenton a HOF QB

Tom Landry: made SB w/ Craig Morton, made 3 straight title games w/ Danny White.  We both know he coached Roger Staubach HOF QB 

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game) the fact aht a back up led them to the 1992 title game does not diminish my point

Don Shula: backup led undefeated season, made SB w/ David Woodley  i am sure we also both know that he coached and won the SB with Bob Griese a HOF QB

So on your list the only HOF Coach who did not coach with a Hall of fame QB (or one we can agree will be in the hall of fame) is George Allen.  Again there seems to be a strong connection between HOF Coaches and QBs..

 

[chirorob]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:42 PM, slats said:

I think you'll see that, or something similar, soon. As defenses continue to get smaller and faster in reaction to the QB friendly rules, someone is going to start steamrolling them with a power running game. And then, well, it is a copycat league. 

That's what helps Dallas.

They are one of the only teams that can just line up, and power through you.

[thadude]

21 minutes ago, chirorob said:

That's what helps Dallas.

They are one of the only teams that can just line up, and power through you.

They lost 2 starters on their OL so we'll see if it continues

[nyjunc]

14 hours ago, thadude said:

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King (NFC was very weak that season and no one had tape on King)

Joe Gibbs: won SBs w/ Joe Thiesmann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien (Rypien had 3,500 passing yards 28tds and 11ints that season and that's when defenses were allowed to play)

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game) (Are you kidding?  Jim Kelly is arguably one of the greatest QB's of all-time, that offense he had would tear up today's NFL)

Parcells: won SBs w/ Simms & Hostetler, made another w/ DREW BLEDSOE (all good quarterbacks)

who cares if anyone had tape on King?  he made a title game w/ Shaun King and nearly beat a great rams team on the road in the title game.

Rypien was great that year, he's not a HOF player, Williams wasn't very good by that point in his career, Thiesmann was good not great.  the question was about HOFers, none are HOfers.

I said Kelly is a HOFer but made a title game w/ a backup in 1992.

Simms was a good QB, Hostetler a good backup, Bledoe average/below average.  BB went 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe as his starter.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, LWC611 said:

I think we are talking past each other.  I do not disagree with your point that it is not a guarantee of success, but you have yet to disprove my point.  Against my better judgement I will continue this conversation.

I have already acknowledged that Gibbs and Parcells are in the HOF as coaches and did not have a HOF QB. So why you continue to trot these two out as examples beats me... So here is you list below editied to delete the individuals for which there is no dispute

George Allen: made SB w/ Billy Kilmer  I think I have to give you this point, but I am going to do some research. 

Tony Dungy: made NFC Championship game w/ Shaun King.  This statement ignores the fact that he spent the last six years of his coaching career in Indianapolis where I believe he coached Peyton Manning and actually won a SB.  I hope that we can agree that Peyton Manning will be an HOF QB.

Bud Grant: made SB w/ Joe Kapp, This statement ignores the fact that he went to the SB three times after that with Fran Tarkenton a HOF QB

Tom Landry: made SB w/ Craig Morton, made 3 straight title games w/ Danny White.  We both know he coached Roger Staubach HOF QB 

Marv Levy: made 4 SBs w/ HOFer Kelly(though backup QB led them to 1992 title game) the fact aht a back up led them to the 1992 title game does not diminish my point

Don Shula: backup led undefeated season, made SB w/ David Woodley  i am sure we also both know that he coached and won the SB with Bob Griese a HOF QB

So on your list the only HOF Coach who did not coach with a Hall of fame QB (or one we can agree will be in the hall of fame) is George Allen.  Again there seems to be a strong connection between HOF Coaches and QBs..

 

Dungy did win a SB w/ Peyton led by his DEFENSE as Peyton was terrible for all but one half of play that postseason.

who cares that Landry coached Staubach? he still succeed w/o HOfers which is the point.

they were winning the SB w/ or w/o Griese.

 

 

[Smashmouth]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:42 PM, slats said:

I think you'll see that, or something similar, soon. As defenses continue to get smaller and faster in reaction to the QB friendly rules, someone is going to start steamrolling them with a power running game. And then, well, it is a copycat league. 

The Jets and Seahawks already have done that. The Seahawks first year with Wilson were not what you would call a passing team nor were the 09 10 Jets but both teams almost won a SB running the ball down peoples throats while playing good defense and keeping the ball out of opposing QB's hands

[Smashmouth]

On 6/17/2017 at 3:46 PM, Charlie Brown said:

Yes

By minimizing the significance of the running game, they hurt one of the historically important positions  This coupled with asinine rule changes, burning of tapes, less preparation time for the players and about only three teams having a real chance to win it all in any given year has made the game vastly inferior to the one produced two decades ago.

The 70's were the golden years for me, even though the Jets sucked watching teams like the Raiders Steelers Oliers Cowboys Rams even Cleveland (was always in the 9 - 10 game win column in the 14 game seasons) battle it out was fun then the 49ers and Redskins of the 80's was a blast as well The Giants and Bears in 85 and 86 ....those years were light years better than the dumb product we see on the field today where athletes get dumber and dumber because they can make up for stupidity with sheer blazing speed. The game will be ruined in the next ten years, its well on the way. The reason why the QB position is becoming more and more watered down is because most colleges are also steering toward the athletic QB rather than the cerebral pocket passer and its a big reason why you will see less and less of the Peyton Manning/Tom Bradys of the world in the coming years. The Game is Dumb and its getting dumber and its also the reason why smart coaches like Belichick can beat your brains in with a pack of slow white boys because in essence the Pats are a throwback team that can beat you in any way imaginable mostly due to brains. Funny how the Pats always seem to have a RB step up just at the right time during all their SB years and run the ball down your throat. Think that's luck ? 

[Snell41]

All the rules changes that benefit the QB and yet we still can't find 32 people on the planet that can do it well.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Sounds like Carr will get 25m per year, not sure how this can keep going, next will be 30m 

[jetscrazey]

21 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

You could also make the case that a team without a QB could reasonably offer a counterpunch (usually by way of a ball control power running offense) to the team who did have one and there was a fair contest to be had.  Now the counter to not having a QB is what?  I mean even in a best case scenario which is entirely unsustainable for 20 games...to play keep away with the TOP and build an elite defense to play the opponent hard for 3.75 quarters of football just to let the refs throw a flag party to keep the last 2 minutes interesting and the last team with the ball wins?  I mean giving a team the ball back with 40 seconds on the 20 is generally considered to be leaving them too much time. In the 80s if they were down a TD with 2:00 (some would even say 4:00) left the odds were against them by a huge margin. I'd say that QB was always the most important player on the field in just about every era, but there is massive difference from the way the game is played then vs the way the game is played now and everything is dependent on QB play.  That's insane considering there are 32 teams and on the average...what only like 20 quality Qbs in the NFL at any given time?

I'll agree that in rare cases the power running counterpunch used to work (like the 1990 Giants).  Nowadays it stands no chance of working.

[Kevin L]

48 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Sounds like Carr will get 25m per year, not sure how this can keep going, next will be 30m 

Can't wait til 2020 when Leo Williams wants a $25 million a year contract!

[thadude]

7 hours ago, nyjunc said:

who cares if anyone had tape on King?  he made a title game w/ Shaun King and nearly beat a great rams team on the road in the title game.

Rypien was great that year, he's not a HOF player, Williams wasn't very good by that point in his career, Thiesmann was good not great.  the question was about HOFers, none are HOfers.

I said Kelly is a HOFer but made a title game w/ a backup in 1992.

Simms was a good QB, Hostetler a good backup, Bledoe average/below average.  BB went 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe as his starter.

King - once teams had tape on him his career was over.  He was a one read qb so yeah having tape does matter

Rypien - ok I didn't know the criteria was you had to have a wing in Canton to be considered a good NFL Qb even for just one season

Reich - that was one game.  Mark Sanchez beat Brady and Belichick and Peyton Manning on the road in the playoffs.

Bledsoe was a good player in the 90's.  He was old and done by the year 2000.

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

All the rules changes that benefit the QB and yet we still can't find 32 people on the planet that can do it well.

Because the actual quality of the qb play has actually diminished.  The stats get inflated with the rules.  Almost no college programs have quarterbacks taking snaps under center or even huddling.  That's killed qb development and why the NFL ends up with the Jared Goffs and Bryce Pettys

[jgb]

Can't wait til 2020 when Leo Williams wants a $25 million a year contract!

Not to worry we will be in the middle of the next rebuild and he will be a cap casualty


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[nyjunc]

15 hours ago, thadude said:

King - once teams had tape on him his career was over.  He was a one read qb so yeah having tape does matter

Rypien - ok I didn't know the criteria was you had to have a wing in Canton to be considered a good NFL Qb even for just one season

Reich - that was one game.  Mark Sanchez beat Brady and Belichick and Peyton Manning on the road in the playoffs.

Bledsoe was a good player in the 90's.  He was old and done by the year 2000.

the discussion was about HOFers not good QBs.

mark beat Brady and Manning on the road in the playoffs and amazingly this was AFTER teams had tape on him!

 

Bledsoe was not a good QB and was similar in the early 00s as he was in the 90s.  He actually had one of his best years in Buffalo in 2002(it actually may have been his best season).

[Raideraholic]

On June 22, 2017 at 10:16 AM, chirorob said:

That's what helps Dallas.

They are one of the only teams that can just line up, and power through you.

The Raiders are another team than can do just that.  Now with Beastmode behind one of the physical offense lines around.   You might see a lot of defenses worn down physically by the fourth quarter.

[thadude]

8 hours ago, nyjunc said:

the discussion was about HOFers not good QBs.

mark beat Brady and Manning on the road in the playoffs and amazingly this was AFTER teams had tape on him!

 

Bledsoe was not a good QB and was similar in the early 00s as he was in the 90s.  He actually had one of his best years in Buffalo in 2002(it actually may have been his best season).

Only two teams have won Super Bowls with average quarterbacks.  The 2000 Ravens who had the best defense ever and a great running game and the 2002 Bucs who also had a legendary defense, an effective running game and the head coach knew the opposing qb's tendencies like the back of his balls.

 

Even before the NFL was turned into a version of Madden on the easy level you still needed a good qb.  Oh and I'm sorry but most people in the 90's considered Drew Bledsoe a good qb

[BeastSportsNet]

On June 17, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Fibonacci said:

Ratings are going down. League is transforming into something different. In the new NFL if you have a QB you compete year in year out. If not, you suck until you find a QB.  

Do you think this rating trend continues? If yes, how much of it is due to QB centric league? 

I'm not sure I agree with this premises. There are quite a few good QB's who don't seem to be competing year in and year out. Even some future Hall of Famers, for that matter.

My Evidence:

Drew Brees - In the last five years which is a decent sample size, Brees has had a losing record in four of them. 

Philip Rivers - In the same timespan, Rivers is a combined 10 games below .500 with three losing seasons and nothing better than 9-7.

Eli Manning - 2016 was the first time Eli made the playoffs in six seasons. He was 19-29 in the three seasons before last.

Joe Flacco - Mr. Elite has only one winning seasons in his last four and is 29-29 overall in that time span.

Andrew Luck - Luck has only ten wins in his last 22 starts.

Matthew Stafford - Three losing seasons in the last five. Only one season with more than 9 wins and a combined record that is 4 games under .500

Matt Ryan - The reigning MVP wasn't so valuable in the three seasons before 2016. Ryan failed to lead the Falcons to a winning record in any of those three years and only won eighteen times in forty-eight games! 18 out of 48!!! 

Cam Newton - The 2015 MVP has had four losing seasons in his six years in the league including just six wins last year. At least that was better than the five games he won in 2014.

 

I also disagree that the ratings are down. Sundays ratings were right where they always were. The only real ratings that were down were the ESPN games b/c of their massive subscriber losses. A few other down nights b/c of the Presidential debates and piss-poor primetime matches may have contributed a little as well but the ESPN issue was the majority of it.

 

 

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, BeastSportsNet said:

I'm not sure I agree with this premises. There are quite a few good QB's who don't seem to be competing year in and year out. Even some future Hall of Famers, for that matter.

My Evidence:

Drew Brees - In the last five years which is a decent sample size, Brees has had a losing record in four of them. 

Philip Rivers - In the same timespan, Rivers is a combined 10 games below .500 with three losing seasons and nothing better than 9-7.

Eli Manning - 2016 was the first time Eli made the playoffs in six seasons. He was 19-29 in the three seasons before last.

Joe Flacco - Mr. Elite has only one winning seasons in his last four and is 29-29 overall in that time span.

Andrew Luck - Luck has only ten wins in his last 22 starts.

Matthew Stafford - Three losing seasons in the last five. Only one season with more than 9 wins and a combined record that is 4 games under .500

Matt Ryan - The reigning MVP wasn't so valuable in the three seasons before 2016. Ryan failed to lead the Falcons to a winning record in any of those three years and only won eighteen times in forty-eight games! 18 out of 48!!! 

Cam Newton - The 2015 MVP has had four losing seasons in his six years in the league including just six wins last year. At least that was better than the five games he won in 2014.

 

I also disagree that the ratings are down. Sundays ratings were right where they always were. The only real ratings that were down were the ESPN games b/c of their massive subscriber losses. A few other down nights b/c of the Presidential debates and piss-poor primetime matches may have contributed a little as well but the ESPN issue was the majority of it.

 

 

Welcome, good post.

[Fibonacci]

5 hours ago, BeastSportsNet said:

I'm not sure I agree with this premises. There are quite a few good QB's who don't seem to be competing year in and year out. Even some future Hall of Famers, for that matter.

My Evidence:

Drew Brees - In the last five years which is a decent sample size, Brees has had a losing record in four of them. 

Philip Rivers - In the same timespan, Rivers is a combined 10 games below .500 with three losing seasons and nothing better than 9-7.

Eli Manning - 2016 was the first time Eli made the playoffs in six seasons. He was 19-29 in the three seasons before last.

Joe Flacco - Mr. Elite has only one winning seasons in his last four and is 29-29 overall in that time span.

Andrew Luck - Luck has only ten wins in his last 22 starts.

Matthew Stafford - Three losing seasons in the last five. Only one season with more than 9 wins and a combined record that is 4 games under .500

Matt Ryan - The reigning MVP wasn't so valuable in the three seasons before 2016. Ryan failed to lead the Falcons to a winning record in any of those three years and only won eighteen times in forty-eight games! 18 out of 48!!! 

Cam Newton - The 2015 MVP has had four losing seasons in his six years in the league including just six wins last year. At least that was better than the five games he won in 2014.

 

I also disagree that the ratings are down. Sundays ratings were right where they always were. The only real ratings that were down were the ESPN games b/c of their massive subscriber losses. A few other down nights b/c of the Presidential debates and piss-poor primetime matches may have contributed a little as well but the ESPN issue was the majority of it.

 

 

Good post. Welcome to the board. 

[jgb]

Having an elite QB doesn't guarantee a title but damn if it doesn't make it infinitely easier. Reminds me a quote by J. Getty when asked how a man can become rich. He responded, "Get up early. Work late. And strike oil." Sure there are other possible ways but hitting on a franchise QB opens a lot more pathways to success and given that no other factor correlates more positively with success, the priority of any team without one should be on the search for one.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

[phill1c]

'Franchise' QBs are often the product of having franchise offensive players surrounding them, especially early in their careers.

[nyjunc]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:48 PM, thadude said:

Only two teams have won Super Bowls with average quarterbacks.  The 2000 Ravens who had the best defense ever and a great running game and the 2002 Bucs who also had a legendary defense, an effective running game and the head coach knew the opposing qb's tendencies like the back of his balls.

 

Even before the NFL was turned into a version of Madden on the easy level you still needed a good qb.  Oh and I'm sorry but most people in the 90's considered Drew Bledsoe a good qb

Colts in SB V- Unitas was near the end of the line

Pitt- early years w/ Bradshaw

Raiders: Jim Plunkett twice

Redskins: Doug Williams

Bears: Jim McMahon

Giants: Jeff Hosteller and Eli Manning(2007, in 2011 he was really good.  one of his few really good seasons)

Broncos: Peyton Manning was less than mediocre 2 years ago.

 

those that considered Bledsoe a very good QB didn't really understand what they were watching.  they just looked at pro bowls and he made one while throwing 27 INTs.  don't forget how bad the AFC was most of the 90s.