Vince Young wonders why Ryan Fitzpatrick playing but not him

[whodeawhodat]

19 hours ago, phill1c said:

No, I don't...Just the Jets.

Hey, My name is NOT Vince Young. It's Vince Young who made the statement.

But I am entitled to an opinion that doesn't support the guy of the numerous large contracts and the ZERO playoff seasons, including a monumental choke job for YOUR D-League Team.

I mean, wow, you're kinda making my point for me: you'll support any ol' washed up never was as long has he has the right breeding...

I appreciate the proper use of your... fitz sh*tting the bed has nothing to do with VY sh*tting the bed his entire career in the NFL.  That goes for on and off the field from what I remember.  Being out of shape and disappearing from the team?  My opinion and it has nothing to do with race, is that VY probably had too many chances for success since he was drafted so high. It was very cool what he did in college carrying his team in the rose bowl but he didnt come close to being anything close to being an NFL Qb.  Thats my opinion

[Jet9]

On 6/27/2017 at 4:59 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

The dude is still a god in Austin. Guy has a steakhouse and a real estate business and does a ton of fundraising stuff for UT. They run golf events down there and people shell out hundreds just to chat with him over some holes. People are weird.

 

 

He doesn't own the steakhouse at all. If I had to guess, some UT fans who actually own the joint threw him a bone financially. Guy was a clown with his money. And in 2017 what owner needs this when there are better options on and off the field? 

 

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/vince-young-tgi-fridays-cheesecake-flight/154904

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/vince-young-steakhouse-won-affected-quarterback-filing/nSprZp1aCHGJ9t4ZLsMarK/

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/11/02/vince-young-steakhouse-austin/

 

[Matt39]

@The Troll

[phill1c]

18 hours ago, Mogglez said:

As much as I can't stand him, Fitz is a traditional drop back QB that was willing to take a small amount of money to back up and mentor a young QB and Vince Young is a 34 year old, mentally unstable cry baby who, judging by this article, obviously never matured.  He also isn't willing to take the Vet minimum and still somehow believes he's a starting caliber QB.  That's why Ryan is playing and Young isn't.  It's not about color or anything of the sort.  Vince is just a sh*tty QB that isn't likeable and his baggage and talent aren't worth what he wants to be added to an NFL roster.  Lastly, the dude was the 4th string on one of the worst teams in the CFL in terms of QBs before his fat ass tore his hammy from being in awful shape.  He'd be cut after his 4th pass in an NFL camp.

The notion that the worst QB in the league should be on the roster influencing young players seems absurd REGARDLESS of whether Vince Young has a job. LOL, but its repeated on this team: a guy with one of the worst QB ratings going back years, from a losing program is the presumptive starter.

All the other crap you've dumped on Vince young "he was in awful shape..." you don't know that. You know he pulled a hamstring. People in shape pull hamstrings too. But, no, you have to pile on bullsh!t to support...no kidding...Ryan Fitzpatrick?!

[phill1c]

16 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

I appreciate the proper use of your... fitz sh*tting the bed has nothing to do with VY sh*tting the bed his entire career in the NFL.  That goes for on and off the field from what I remember.  Being out of shape and disappearing from the team?  My opinion and it has nothing to do with race, is that VY probably had too many chances for success since he was drafted so high. It was very cool what he did in college carrying his team in the rose bowl but he didnt come close to being anything close to being an NFL Qb.  Thats my opinion

I appreciate that you know the difference, too. I think the careers are comparable considering NEITHER has ever played a playoff game. That Fitzpatrick was given so many chances to F*ck up is the point. Vince got far fewer.

BTW, how many chances to you think Vince Young actually had? I don't know, but it didn't seem like anywhere near as many as our present retread, who basically has NEVER been successful and doesn't actually have any physical talent to be successful. for him, the bar is set very low: he's a non-starter from Cleveland!! Yeah, that Cleveland...

17 hours ago, Larz said:

He was given 2 chances recently and blew them both. 

Looosah 

Who are we talking about? I think the shoe fits either player, one with the NFL and one not. One WITH talent and the other was on the Jets.

[August]

15 hours ago, phill1c said:

I appreciate that you know the difference, too. I think the careers are comparable considering NEITHER has ever played a playoff game. That Fitzpatrick was given so many chances to F*ck up is the point. Vince got far fewer.

BTW, how many chances to you think Vince Young actually had? I don't know, but it didn't seem like anywhere near as many as our present retread, who basically has NEVER been successful and doesn't actually have any physical talent to be successful. for him, the bar is set very low: he's a non-starter from Cleveland!! Yeah, that Cleveland...

Who are we talking about? I think the shoe fits either player, one with the NFL and one not. One WITH talent and the other was on the Jets.

Actually Young did play in a playoff game in 2007 against the Chargers. Besides that your post was spot on. 

[Jet9]

15 hours ago, phill1c said:

I appreciate that you know the difference, too. I think the careers are comparable considering NEITHER has ever played a playoff game. That Fitzpatrick was given so many chances to F*ck up is the point. Vince got far fewer.

BTW, how many chances to you think Vince Young actually had? I don't know, but it didn't seem like anywhere near as many as our present retread, who basically has NEVER been successful and doesn't actually have any physical talent to be successful. for him, the bar is set very low: he's a non-starter from Cleveland!! Yeah, that Cleveland...

Who are we talking about? I think the shoe fits either player, one with the NFL and one not. One WITH talent and the other was on the Jets.

 

 

You're going to give yourself ulcers.  

[phill1c]

12 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

 

 

You're going to give yourself ulcers.  

Really?! I bet you get one first! I'm 55 and Black and haven't gotten one yet. I don't think a Jets forum discussion will give me one.

[ljr]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

I sincerely apologize, but your post is too difficult to follow.

abcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabcabc

 

Trying to simplify ... Am I correct with these 3 statement ?

 

Phill1c accepts Vince Young does not belong in the NFL

Phill1c does not believe Fitz belongs in the NFL either.

discussing Josh McKown has nothing to do with the message Phill1c is talking about in this topic.

 

[Jet9]

17 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Really?! I bet you get one first! I'm 55 and Black and haven't gotten one yet. I don't think a Jets forum discussion will give me one.

Well, with all due respect, sir, you seem to have a pretty big chip on your shoulder. There's racism everywhere, for everyone, whether you like that fact or not. Since you're 55 you should also realize that life isn't fair for most. Some start their life on 3rd base, and that's just how it is. However, if you think NFL owners and GMs aren't thinking 'Win early and often with the best team possible', then I really don't know what to tell you. They are 'racist' against everything that is not Green or doesn't give them W's. For God's sake, how many white QB's taken early who sucked royally were given a bunch of 3rd, and 4th chances in the past 20 years? Not many, if any. 

 

 

ETA: 3 of the first 4 QBs taken in this year's draft are Black. Give it a rest. 

[ljr]

3 minutes ago, phill1c said:

 

I don't know if Vince Young belongs in the NFL or not. I know he is not in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

With those replies it still seems like you are all over the place.

to try and keep things simple I'll just discuss the 1st point above here.

 

in your and my 1st discussion I listed these reasons why VY does not belong in the NFL

 

,  ljr said: 

"   6 hours ago,  ljr said: 

Vince Young himself in this article does the following:

discuss his former coach by saying "I'm going to expose his ass," Young said.

refuse to accept responsibility himself for the poor decisions he's made.

he was also an aging former QB let go by being unable to stay healthy enough to make a CFL roster?

 

Phill1c's reply to me was

"valid points, all"

 

 

if you you accept those points ... It seems pretty strange that you aren't willing to admit that VY does not belong in the NFL

[phill1c]

22 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Well, with all due respect, sir, you seem to have a pretty big chip on your shoulder. There's racism everywhere, for everyone, whether you like that fact or not. Since you're 55 you should also realize that life isn't fair for most. Some start their life on 3rd base, and that's just how it is. However, if you think NFL owners and GMs aren't thinking 'Win early and often with the best team possible', then I really don't know what to tell you. They are 'racist' against everything that is not Green or doesn't give them W's. For God's sake, how many white QB's taken early who sucked royally were given a bunch of 3rd, and 4th chances in the past 20 years? Not many, if any. 

 

 

ETA: 3 of the first 4 QBs taken in this year's draft are Black. Give it a rest. 

ETA?

That's THIS YEAR. Let's see how long they remain in the league if they don't win immediately. Will they be given multiple chances to fail as Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown have?

And, of course, I don't not need to "give it a rest" because you're tired of defending an untenable position. That was very rude and disrespectful. You have very large chip on your shoulder.

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, Jet9 said:

Wow, dude. Just wow. You don't have a chip on your shoulder, you ARE Chip. 

 

Jason Campbell says Hi, BTW. 

So, no real argument and devolving into the land of disrespect and namecalling. I thought you were better than that. My mistake.

[Jet9]

Just now, phill1c said:

ETA?

That's THIS YEAR. Let's see how long they remain in the league if they don't win immediately. Will they be given multiple chances to fail as Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown have?

And, of course, I don't not need to "give it a rest" because you're tired of defending an untenable position. That was very rude and disrespectful. You have very large chip on your shoulder.

ETA = Edited To Add.

 

 

[Jet9]

Just now, phill1c said:

So, no real argument and devolving into the land of disrespect. It's cool, I thought you were better than that. My mistake.

Disrespect? WTF man? 

[phill1c]

Just now, Jet9 said:

Disrespect? WTF man? 

You have told me to shut up, i.e., "give it a rest" and called me hypersensitive "you have a chip on your shoulder; you are Chip" instead of refuting the argument with evidence.

[Dcat]

 

5 hours ago, phill1c said:

Valid points, all...

But the other valid point left out is "why is Fitzpatrick still playing?"

Fitzpatrick is unique.  His NFL career has always been in the cycle below.  No joke.  I'm serious.  As you can see he is right now between 2:00 and 3:00 in the cycle. That's right about when he starts to play well.  This will likely be the final revolution in the Fitzpatrick career cycle.  Bucs fans beware.

 

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Fitzpatrick is unique.  His NFL career has always been in the cycle below.  No joke.  I'm serious.  As you can see he is right now between 2:00 and 3:00 in the cycle. That's right about when he starts to play well.  This will likely be the final revolution in the Fitzpatrick career cycle.  Bucs fans beware.

He's f*cking 33 and has never led any team to the postseason. and, my god, Richard Todd was 8 times as clutch as Fitzpatrick was. The guy is a choker of the highest degree. It's not like he's played good enough to win and had bad luck. He's BEEN the bad luck for teams: is a first-read-only passer and a game-clinching (for the other team) turnover machine.

Can you explain what "between 2:00 and 3:00 in the cycle" means?

And what is the reasoning for Josh McCown's longevity?

[Dcat]

Just now, phill1c said:

He's f*cking 33 and has never led any team to the postseason.

Can you explain what "between 2:00 and 3:00 in the cycle" means?

And what is the reasoning for Josh McCown's longevity?

McCown: career backup used as a starter by desperate teams.  

Fitzpatrick: See the cycle.  (hint: its the image below my post that you may have missed. )

[ljr]

Phill1c ... Your position loses the most validity in your refusing to admit that VY does not merit another opportunity ... (After already admitting that VY bad mouths his coaches, refuses to own his mistakes, is old, has a history of mostly poor play, is coming off of an injury, and was unable to make a CFL roster)

Come on man

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, phill1c said:

The notion that the worst QB in the league should be on the roster influencing young players seems absurd REGARDLESS of whether Vince Young has a job. LOL, but its repeated on this team: a guy with one of the worst QB ratings going back years, from a losing program is the presumptive starter.

All the other crap you've dumped on Vince young "he was in awful shape..." you don't know that. You know he pulled a hamstring. People in shape pull hamstrings too. But, no, you have to pile on bullsh!t to support...no kidding...Ryan Fitzpatrick?!

It's either the dumbest argument or a racist, er, racial one. You pick...

 

I made more than one point to support it and you deflected away.  Take one look at Vince Young on social media and you can tell the guy is far from in football shape.  Take one look at the CFL reports and you'd reinforce the notion that not only is he out of shape, but he looks awful throwing the ball.  How about glancing over the fact that one is under contract for bare minimum to be a BACKUP and Young, in negotiations with the last team to consider him, stated he wanted more than that (money/opportunity).  None of this is bullsh*t.  It's documented facts that people want to glance over to force feed their bullsh*t "raycisssssmmmmmm" narrative.  The guy f*cking sucks, is out of shape, and 34 years old with horrible mechanics, a toxic attitude and sh*t accuracy.  Why the F*CK would anyone want him?  I hate Fitzpatrick but the guy is 2 years removed from a decent year and is a cheap backup who can step in and hold down the fort if the starter gets hurt.  He's kinda proven that over a dozen times in his career.  Young has been out of the league for much longer than that and was dreadful the last time he stepped on a field. You think Fitzpatrick is the worst QB in the league?  That's fine.  I wouldn't disagree there.  However, that would change the second Young got signed to an NFL team.  He's awful. 

By the way, it's a torn Hamstring.  Not a simple pull.  He's b*tching and whining while not even being remotely healthy enough to play.  He's a garbage player, a garbage teammate, and by the sound of it, a garbage guy to coach. It's not racial and it isn't stupid.  Vince Young doesn't belong in the NFL and he has NO ONE to blame other than himself.

[phill1c]

Just now, Dcat said:

Well I certainly hear your position on the issue and you have every right to express it without being trolled for it.  I certainly don't agree with you. And it was you who started the debate by referring to non-white QBs in the early post.  That said, good luck with it.  I'm out.

One does need an opposition to have a debate. Otherwise, it's an echo chamber.

And I appreciate your respectful reply.

[Mogglez]

5 hours ago, phill1c said:

Again, these are spots reserved for white guys. Because Black guys very rarely get to be a "career backup". Or get to be "career turnover machine choke artists."

Like Geno Smith?  Who was signed in a f*cking heartbeat?  How about Tyrod Taylor who was a career backup until he got traded to the Bills?  Dennis Dixon?  Vince Young BEFORE he played himself out of the league?

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I made more than one point to support it and you deflected away.  Take one look at Vince Young on social media and you can tell the guy is far from in football shape.  Take one look at the CFL reports and you'd reinforce the notion that not only is he out of shape, but he looks awful throwing the ball.  How about glancing over the fact that one is under contract for bare minimum to be a BACKUP and Young, in negotiations with the last team to consider him, stated he wanted more than that (money/opportunity).  None of this is bullsh*t.  It's documented facts that people want to glance over to force feed their bullsh*t "raycisssssmmmmmm" narrative.  The guy f*cking sucks, is out of shape, and 34 years old with horrible mechanics, a toxic attitude and sh*t accuracy.  Why the F*CK would anyone want him?  I hate Fitzpatrick but the guy is 2 years removed from a decent year and is a cheap backup who can step in and hold down the fort if the starter gets hurt.  He's kinda proven that over a dozen times in his career.  Young has been out of the league for much longer than that and was dreadful the last time he stepped on a field. You think Fitzpatrick is the worst QB in the league?  That's fine.  I wouldn't disagree there.  However, that would change the second Young got signed to an NFL team.  He's awful. 

By the way, it's a torn Hamstring.  Not a simple pull.  He's b*tching and whining while not even being remotely healthy enough to play.  He's a grabage player, a garbage teammate, and by the sound of it, a garbage guy to coach. It's not racial and it isn't stupid.  Vince Young doesn't belong in the NFL and he has NO ONE to blame other than himself.

The Mets have had three guys with leg injuries, Gesselman, Walker, Cespedis. Are they out of shape? BTW, a pulled hamstring IS a torn hamstring. just sayin..

But the major point is not Vince Young, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick and the numerous chances he's had.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Like Geno Smith? Who was signed in a f*cking heartbeat?  How about Tyrod Taylor who was a career backup until he got traded to the Bills?  Dennis Dixon?  Vince Young BEFORE he played himself out of the league?

It's his SECOND contract, his 5th year. Hell he didn't even get to have a fair shot in his first contract. Started started for TWO years and was trending upward. Not his 13th plus year...Tyrod Taylor and Dennis Dixon together don't have as many as half the years of either of these guys.

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It's his SECOND contract, his 5th year. Hell he didn't even get to have a fair shot in his first contract. Started started for TWO years and was trending upward. Not his 13th plus year...Tyrod Taylor and Dennis Dixon together don't have as many as half the years of either of these guys.

Cutler doesn't have a job.  I think personality has a lot to do with it.  As much as we want to believe that it is all based on performance, it's not. It's also based on personality and leadership.  Vince Young and Geno, for what its worth, have always been weak at those skill sets. It matters.  You may think it's racially motivated.  I think there are other factors.  But I agree it is not necessarily 100% about performance on the field.  If I were a GM, I wouldn't want Geno or Vince Young in my building.  And not because of race.  And that's the truth. I wouldn't want Cutler either.  But if a starting QB goes down to injury this summer, Cutler will be called upon based on experience. Locker room negatives notwithstanding.  Much like Geno who has the personality of a recluse and zero leadership ability.

[Mogglez]

11 minutes ago, phill1c said:

The Mets have had three guys with leg injuries, Gesselman, Walker, Cespedis. Are they out of shape? BTW, a pulled hamstring IS a torn hamstring. just sayin..

But the major point is not Vince Young, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick and the numerous chances he's had.

I could right a goddamn 10 page thesis on why I think my Mets are dropping like flies but I enjoy my blood pressure being where it's at right now, lmfao.  Yeah, I know about the hammys...my point is just that he's complaining while not being healthy.  I also believe his was a severely torn hamstring.  I got you though.

At the end of the day, Fitzpatrick has shown that he is capable of doing what is expected of the backup...and he's doing it for cheap.  I don't think he should be playing for anyone.  I agree.  However, there are teams in need of veteran backups.  He fits that bill.  Vince was given 4-5 chances with different teams via backup roles/TC workouts and he showed time and time again that he can't cut it.  On top of it, his attitude is awful and not something you want in the QB room/locker room.  In fact, like @Dcat just said, I think that's the biggest reason why he's out so "quickly" (he had a decently long career, all things considered).

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 minutes ago, phill1c said:

The Mets have had three guys with leg injuries, Gesselman, Walker, Cespedis. Are they out of shape? BTW, a pulled hamstring IS a torn hamstring. just sayin..

But the major point is not Vince Young, it's Ryan Fitzpatrick and the numerous chances he's had.

He gets those chances because he is a smart football player that brings value to a team even when he is not playing. Vince Young is a knucklehead. No different than Johnny Manziel. At QB, if you are a headcase or bring outside issues (Kap), you better be a starting caliber QB, because no one wants a middling QB with a bad attitude or of the field distractions as a backup.

[phill1c]

7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I could right a goddamn 10 page thesis on why I think my Mets are dropping like flies but I enjoy my blood pressure being where it's at right now, lmfao.

At the end of the day, Fitzpatrick has shown that he is capable of doing what is expected of the backup...and he's doing it for cheap.  I don't think he should be playing for anyone.  I agree.  However, there are teams in need of veteran backups.  He fits that bill.  Vince was given 4-5 chances with different teams via backup roles/TC workouts and he showed time and time again that he can't cut it.  On top of it, his attitude is awful and not something you want in the QB room/locker room.  In fact, like @Dcat just said, I think that's the biggest reason why he's out so "quickly" (he had a decently long career, all things considered).

 

Sure, he can do everything, except play well or smart and not get injured.

And I'm not sure his attitude is anything special, if his holdout and handling of getting benched is any indication.

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, whodeawhodat said:

NFL teams have black doods that have been incarcarated let alone just being black so your race issue in the NFL is absurd.

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

[phill1c]

Anyway, I'm tiring.

So, catch you later.

[whodeawhodat]

Just now, phill1c said:

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

holy sh*t.  you saw a video of the kicker cold cocking his woman?  Dont even go there, the kicker sounds like he was in an unhealthy relationship for sure but please dont say it is the same thing except for race.  I have been with some crazy ass women and have had the smarts to walk away no matter how good they were in bed.  Why was hardy given chances and the kicker wasnt?  See???? i can play that game too.  it is ridiculous. the nfl will play any player if their skill outweighs their baggage imo. again, just my opinion

[Mogglez]

19 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It's his SECOND contract, his 5th year. Hell he didn't even get to have a fair shot in his first contract. Started started for TWO years and was trending upward. Not his 13th plus year...Tyrod Taylor and Dennis Dixon together don't have as many as half the years of either of these guys.

It's also important to remember that Young was drafted to be the face of a franchise, given a ton of money, bombed in horrific fashion, then was given backup roles with Tennessee (the team who drafted him), The Eagles, the Packers, and the Browns (never made it to Pre Season), and underperformed in that role too.  Fitzpatrick was DRAFTED to be backup and showed that he could do that job to a level that was expected of him.  Some of the years he showed that he could perform far beyond what was expected of him. That is what, in my opinion, has given him longevity.  Not the color of his skin.  Vince Young never had the years Ryan had and his career always had a consistent downward trend.  That's why his leash was shorter.  Same for the others.  They didn't play up to snuff.  That's it.

[Mogglez]

16 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Sure, he can do everything, except play well or smart and not get injured.

And I'm not sure his attitude is anything special, if his holdout and handling of getting benched is any indication.

Fitzpatrick did play well in the past.  His horrific season the following year doesn't change that.  Also, in the two years he was with us, he got injured ONCE and came back the following week and went on to play some of his best ball of that season. If you're referring to his leg injury in Houston, remember that it was an injury that derailed their entire season because he was playing decent ball.  Again, I say this as someone who LOATHED watching the guy.

Say what you want about his holdout, but he was supported by just about every player in that locker room.  His teammates liked him and the coaches liked him.  The same can't be said of Young.  When Geno got himself cold clocked by a teammate, he was never going to be the guy going forward ever again and that gave Fitzpatrick a load of leverage.  Business is what it is.  Fitz wanted one more payday and the team didn't want a long-term commitment.  Both sides got what they wanted and I can't disagree with either side for wanting what they ultimately got.

[Jet Nut]

38 minutes ago, phill1c said:

And they have Black guys who have abused their wives who are out of the NFL (Ray Rice) while the kicker for the Giants is still employed. So, maybe not as absurd as you are so quick to say.

And that might be because the rule over punishment has changed.  Plus the outcry over the fact it was on video for the world to see.