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idzik.. just how bad was he at drafting players ? ? ?


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1 hour ago, phill1c said:

McCown

  • What would I pay? For a 38 year-old Josh McCown? Zero.
  • The going rate was half, or less than half, what we're paying. We overpaid for no reason. It could be justified if we were SB contenders and we wanted super-insurance in case our productive franchise QB went out for a few weeks so the season wouldn't go down the toilet. This is $6m of cap room for a quasi QBC and role model, for QBs the GM doesn't even believe in.

The going rate two years ago was $6 million. I remember because that is what the Jets at one point offered Fitzpatrick. I don't think $6 for a backup is anything extraordinary. But I do understand that you were probably running out of steam at that point in your list.

The 2nd highest offer for him was $2m or $3m (I forget which offhand). Our offer was double the next-highest offer.  The going rate is his top offer. We doubled it.

Not $6m if he starts, or if he reaches certain (valuable) stats. $6m if he sits on the toilet all season, with additional playing-time incentives he could reach that could easily add another million-plus. There's up to another $5m team in incentives for playoffs, etc. - however unlikely they'd all be reached - that he'd still pocket if he was demoted to 3rd string.

Like Fitzpatrick a year ago, it's a contract nobody else would dream of offering this backup QB. That is why it is stupid.

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

Here's the post you made, and my reply to it. The one that has your feewings all upset:

 

Look at it again. Please. If you can't see that I'm simply taking your words and tossing them back to show you how you read to others, I don't know what to tell you except that if you were offended, then clearly you must have intended to offend in your post above. That's the only conclusion I can possibly come to. To anyone else reading the thread, It's pretty clear I never told you to STFU, and that there's absolutely nothing offensive in there. 

Actually, you're taking TheDominator's words (STFU) and tossing them at me. Mine was a response to his original STFU, which you know, I'm sure.

And why were you interjecting yourself into it anyway? I wasn't talking to you.

Do you guys with similar opinions really need so much to gang up on me? It's hard enough to respond to numerous people piling on the questions, in a respectful and thoughtful manner. I sure as sh!t don't need to deal with multiple people being hostile to me, simply because I have a different opinion than they do.

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1 minute ago, phill1c said:

advice apparently ONLY I have to follow.

Make no mistake, If I get banished it's not the end of my world. I just enjoy chatting about the Jets and sports. But if you can't show ANY respect, that's a different thing. I think if you actually read my comments, the overwhelming majority of them are fact-based. There are guys I mess around with, Tom Shane, for example. He can take it and I can take it from him. I'm not going to run the moderator or admonish him for his crazy posts. But you guys made a big stink about me calling you a dick and how fairly objectively the policy against personal attacks is applied and today you, personally, have launched several personal attacks and been extremely hostile. 

Do you see how hypocritical and disrespectful that is? or you just don't want to see... 

Who made a big stink?  I didn't say sh*t.  Bensonhurst don't raise no rats.  The only reason I even pointed it out was because that is the kind of thing that will get you in trouble.  

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Just now, phill1c said:

Actually, you're taking TheDominator's words (STFU) and tossing them at me. Mine was a response to his original STFU, which you know, I'm sure.

And why were you interjecting yourself into it anyway? I wasn't talking to you.

Do you guys with similar opinions really need so much to gang up on me? It's hard enough to respond to numerous people piling on the questions, in a respectful and thoughtful manner. I sure as sh!t don't need to deal with multiple people being hostile to me, simply because I have a different opinion than they do.

He's a mod.  So is sperm.  It is kind of their job.  Kind of ballsy to talk about respect after some of the sh*t you said.  It was yesterday though, so I guess today I should pretend it is all good.  Kind of like all those sh*tty contracts Maccagnan drafted.  We are rebuilding now, so everything is peachy.

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8 minutes ago, phill1c said:

again, STFU is not pointing out my faulty logic.

"if you can comprehend (i'm sensing you can't)" is not pointing out faulty logic.

And, if you really thought I was unable to comprehend what you're saying I suspect you'd be smart enough not to engage with me for the hours you have. Let's not insult everyone's intelligence with that fabrication. No, the simple fact is that you got upset because you can't convince me of the validity of your OPINION and launched a personal attack. We've all done it. I've been admonished for it. I think you should show leadership the moderator role requires and take the same actions you took on me when I ran afoul of policy and not just whitewash my complaint.

You don't want me to be a dick, I get it. But then you can't just be a dick to me either, not and be anything close to fair and objective in your role.

What are you even talking about? 

If you weren't able to comprehend without my spelling it all out, which I did immediately afterwards in case you weren't able to comprehend. 

Just as it seems you did not - or were unable to - comprehend the context of the STFU comment from slats.

As I offered 24 hours ago, you could just drop this instead of ruining another thread.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The 2nd highest offer for him was $2m or $3m (I forget which offhand). Our offer was double the next-highest offer.  The going rate is his top offer. We doubled it.

Not $6m if he starts, or if he reaches certain (valuable) stats. $6m if he sits on the toilet all season, with additional playing-time incentives he could reach that could easily add another million-plus. There's up to another $5m team in incentives for playoffs, etc. - however unlikely they'd all be reached - that he'd still pocket if he was demoted to 3rd string.

Like Fitzpatrick a year ago, it's a contract nobody else would dream of offering this backup QB. That is why it is stupid.

sigh...

Again, you admonish me for calling you a nutcase, but it's ok for you to suggest that I'm stupid?!

You know what? If you won't acknowledge the obvious hypocrisy you won't be convinced by me. I was hoping you'd respond with integrity and class and each of you hasn't. So, at least--until the banning--I know what kind of men I'm dealing with in you three.

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The most horrible from Tannenbaum:

  • veteran acquisitions you mention: Kimo, Barlow, Clement, Tebow -- all just brutal
  • over-valuing Gholston ("with Mangini at the helm") and 2009's unknown 1st rounder pick over Matt Ryan, itself a result of giving Bryan Thomas too much guaranteed money the year before and he slacked off in 2007. Failure to make this trade - offered right to him - led to Brett Favre that 2008 summer for a 2009 3rd rounder, which then led to Mark Sanchez for 2009's 1st and 2nd rounders. F***ing butterfly effect for all to see.
  • his and Mangini's childish, and purely spiteful garbage with offensive co-captain Pete Kendall who had the audacity of seeking a $1m raise on his $1.7m salary (where Tannenbaum allegedly agreed with him, that April, that his salary was low and what he was seeking was reasonable). He was traded last-minute before the season, leading the team to start Adrien Clarke.
  • the makeup-sex extension for Sanchez after an awful season. He should have been cut outright if MT wanted to clear cap room, and maybe Bradway wouldn't have been "pounding the table" for nothing. Instead of Wilson, we used our 2nd round pick (#47) and paired it with our 5th and 7th rounders to move up 4 slots for Stephen Hill (over Jeffery and Wagner no less).
  • timing the contracts so both his starting WRs (plus B.Smith) hit FA at the same time, leading to an ill-conceived extension for Santonio Holmes with $20m guaranteed (he was well worth the 5th rounder a year before, and could have netted a 3rd round comp pick had we just let him go, which would have been a great move for "Trader Mike")
  • panicking and getting fleeced by the Saints on Jonathan Vilma. Fine to let him go with Harris looking so good after Vilma went on IR, but he really got screwed.
  • allowing the HBO cameras to watch him put the squeeze on Kellen Clemens on final cut-day. It was painful to watch, as he'd tagged Clemens with his original (2nd) round tender, meaning he couldn't sign elsewhere but wasn't guaranteed a roster spot. Only compounded that, after Clemens signed it, he picked up Mark Brunell to be a rostered QBC for Sanchez.
  • ...there's clearly more, but I'm just going to stop here before I damage something in this room.

Yeah I like your list better than mine.  I was just going off memory.  Dark, painful, memory.  And Jason Taylor was a bad pick up...not a bad player.  He was the quintessential Jets hater his entire career.  That was awful.

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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The most horrible from Tannenbaum:

  • veteran acquisitions you mention: Kimo, Barlow, Clement, Tebow -- all just brutal
  • over-valuing Gholston ("with Mangini at the helm") and 2009's unknown 1st rounder pick over Matt Ryan, itself a result of giving Bryan Thomas too much guaranteed money the year before and he slacked off in 2007. Failure to make this trade - offered right to him - led to Brett Favre that 2008 summer for a 2009 3rd rounder, which then led to Mark Sanchez for 2009's 1st and 2nd rounders. F***ing butterfly effect for all to see.
  • his and Mangini's childish, and purely spiteful garbage with offensive co-captain Pete Kendall who had the audacity of seeking a $1m raise on his $1.7m salary (where Tannenbaum allegedly agreed with him, that April, that his salary was low and what he was seeking was reasonable). He was traded last-minute before the season, leading the team to start Adrien Clarke.
  • the makeup-sex extension for Sanchez after an awful season. He should have been cut outright if MT wanted to clear cap room, and maybe Bradway wouldn't have been "pounding the table" for nothing. Instead of Wilson, we used our 2nd round pick (#47) and paired it with our 5th and 7th rounders to move up 4 slots for Stephen Hill (over Jeffery and Wagner no less).
  • timing the contracts so both his starting WRs (plus B.Smith) hit FA at the same time, leading to an ill-conceived extension for Santonio Holmes with $20m guaranteed (he was well worth the 5th rounder a year before, and could have netted a 3rd round comp pick had we just let him go, which would have been a great move for "Trader Mike")
  • panicking and getting fleeced by the Saints on Jonathan Vilma. Fine to let him go with Harris looking so good after Vilma went on IR, but he really got screwed.
  • allowing the HBO cameras to watch him put the squeeze on Kellen Clemens on final cut-day. It was painful to watch, as he'd tagged Clemens with his original (2nd) round tender, meaning he couldn't sign elsewhere but wasn't guaranteed a roster spot. Only compounded that, after Clemens signed it, he picked up Mark Brunell to be a rostered QBC for Sanchez.
  • ...there's clearly more, but I'm just going to stop here before I damage something in this room.

only Tebow was really bad, hurt us in any way.

the gholston thing had mangini written all over it.

the sanchez extension was not a big deal. didn't hurt us, the offseason after 2012 is when things were going to start to clean up and he essentially gave him an extra year or 2.  The biggest issue was after 2009 he tinkered w/ the weapons.  each year we got worse and then we expected Sanchez to improve.

Vilma was a Mangini thing b/c he didn't fit Mangini's scheme.  remember he came off a serious injury too, not a ton of interest.

It was a 3rd rd tender on clemens and he was making not much more than the league minimum.    

 

no GM is perfect, he made some mistakes but he built multiple SB contenders, 2009 and 2010 and if he didn't screw up w/ Chad in 2008 we'd have been a contender in 2008.  He drafted a lock HOFer, the last HOfer we drafted was John Riggins.  he did some good things too.

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17 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Tanny was a poor team manager/contract manager.  Constantly peddling away draft picks, giving bad, bloated contracts, and picking up some really awful free agents like Jason Taylor and Tim Tebow.  And in his first two years he signed Andre Wadsworth, traded a 6th for Patrick Ramsey, Andre Dyson 11.5 million contract, Kimo Von Oelhoffen, Anthony Clement, Kevan Barlow...then in '08 traded a 3rd, 3rd and 5th round picks for Kris Jenkins and Brett Favre...the same year drafting the likes of Vernon Gholston and Eric Ainge...Then in 2009 traded a 5th rnd. pick and a 2010 4th rnd. pick to the Eagles for Lito Shepherd whom they then signed to a 27 mil. contract...leaving the Jets 3 total picks in 2009...and it gets worse from there.  He had good drafts with Mangini at the helm.  But overall he sucked pretty bad.

wadsworth was cheap, no risk or guaranteed money.

a 6th for Ramsey is bad?(especially at the time)

didn't dyson start on a playoff team?

what did kimo cost them? and another starter on a playoff team

bad draft picks happen

got barlow for nothing, we were desperate.

jenkins was worth it if he stayed healthy

favre obviously sabotaged a real SB chance

you know every team has draft busts, right?

as for Lito, a starter on a title game team and read the article below about his contract.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/133455-the-new-york-jets-theft-of-lito-sheppard-trade-details-are-a-work-of-art

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d816be2b1/printable/jets-cut-cb-sheppard-after-one-season-before-10m-bonus-is-due

 

 

the bottom line is this, in 6 seasons he built 3 playoff teams and no GM in history presided over more playoff wins.  he gave us 2 legit SB chances and if not for the Favre move would have been a 3rd.  he made mistakes but he did much more good than bad and now we watched him rebuild Miami into a playoff team already while we haven;t sniffed the playoffs since he left.

 

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That is a thing? Vernon Gholston started games for two separate playoff teams and was in all three playoff games for what is probably the best defense the Jets ever fielded.  While you are spouting how overrated the 2009 Jets D is, perhaps you can explain how underrated our studly 2006 D was? 

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is a thing? Vernon Gholston started games for two separate playoff teams and was in all three playoff games for what is probably the best defense the Jets ever fielded.  While you are spouting how overrated the 2009 Jets D is, perhaps you can explain how underrated our studly 2006 D was? 

Vernon wasn't s starter, he was pressed into short term action b/c of injuries/suspensions.  the other guys were full time starters.  

It amazes me how we bash those that actually succeeded here and praise those that did nothing.

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32 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

only Tebow was really bad, hurt us in any way.

the gholston thing had mangini written all over it.

the sanchez extension was not a big deal. didn't hurt us, the offseason after 2012 is when things were going to start to clean up and he essentially gave him an extra year or 2.  The biggest issue was after 2009 he tinkered w/ the weapons.  each year we got worse and then we expected Sanchez to improve.

Vilma was a Mangini thing b/c he didn't fit Mangini's scheme.  remember he came off a serious injury too, not a ton of interest.

It was a 3rd rd tender on clemens and he was making not much more than the league minimum.    

 

no GM is perfect, he made some mistakes but he built multiple SB contenders, 2009 and 2010 and if he didn't screw up w/ Chad in 2008 we'd have been a contender in 2008.  He drafted a lock HOFer, the last HOfer we drafted was John Riggins.  he did some good things too.

I'd say the same for Mangini that I'd say for Herm, Rex, Bowles, or any other Jets HC: he's not the GM. If you want to point to Mangini wanting certain players, and was at odds with Tannenbaum on the subject, you could point to that. 

Vilma clearly didn't fit Mangini's scheme, would get himself taken out of plays by the offense's backs and get dragged past the first down marker, but Tannenbaum got fleeced and jumped on the low trade before March. It wasn't the last time he got screwed over by trade/contract language, this one allowing the Saints to wait a day to sign him to an extension so it would technically be a UFA signing for NO rather than an extension. Or that's my recollection, anyway, which may be faulty after this many years.

The Sanchez extension did hurt the Jets. Badly. Based on this extension, the Jets rationalized picking up Tebow to "challenge" him, and passed on a QB in the upcoming draft, including a great one the team's lead scout had a stiffy over.

No, it was a 2nd round tender on Clemens. The 3 RFA tenders: 1st + a 3rd, 1st rounder, and original draft round. Clemens was drafted in round 2 so he was tagged at that amount. It was an symptom of Clemens - good enough to be a backup for years, but just not good enough to be a #1 starter - getting screwed by his higher draft slot. He was trapped; if he didn't sign with the Jets nobody would have touched him with that 2nd round tag, and signing the offer still didn't guarantee him a roster spot like it does with franchise tagged players who sign (as Tannenbaum showed everyone on Hard Knocks). It was uncomfortable to watch as a fan.

He made a lot of good moves, which I acknowledge, and some of the bad signings look worse without context (as I originally replied in my prior post). But he made a lot of mistakes that had butterfly effects into still more mistakes meant to correct earlier ones.

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10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Vernon wasn't s starter, he was pressed into short term action b/c of injuries/suspensions.  the other guys were full time starters.  

It amazes me how we bash those that actually succeeded here and praise those that did nothing.

Kimo Von Oelhoffen did something here? 

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3 hours ago, phill1c said:

You've mentioned every possibly spurious contract and some that really are decent contracts for the players that were offered them.

But, let's be clear, contracts like Giaomini, Fitzpatrick, Gilchrist, Skrine, Revis were made because before Maccagnan arrived the cupboard was COMPLETELY BARE. For example, the Jets signed Giacomini because they had absolutely NO OTHER OPTIONS. The Jets before Macagganan HAD ABSOLUTELY THE WORST ROSTER IN THE NFL.

Now it's improved to "perhaps" the worst. I know Tom Shane will resurrect himself from his deaths by cliff diving AND being hit by a train, but the Jets have at least gotten younger and addressed the talent deficit somewhat in a number of positions: WR, OL, LB, Secondary, QB. There's still plenty of work to do, but IMO, it HAS improved somewhat with younger, homegrown players. The deadwood has been removed.

Certainly, the team is not where I'd like it to be...in some ways. But I like where the Jets are. It gives me hope.

Hey Phil, sorry man I hate it when people pile on and you've got your hands full...but I just want to point out a fairly simple gauge I'm using to draw my opinion on the job Mac's done and this post sums it up for me.  The Jets may have had as bad a roster when Mac took over, but I honestly feel it was a better roster than the one we have today.  The biggest issue I have is that, while being left talent poor, Mac was left with a ton of resources...Basically an open check-book, something the previous regime did not have the prior two seasons, but had to create by stripping away a lot of aging talent and being extremely conservative with contracts.  Now we again are very talent poor, but the resources are gone and the team is forced to further strip away aging talent and be even more financially conservative. In effect, this actually lowers the floor set in 2014 by quite a bit.  a look at the top two or three player in each position when Mac took over:

QB: Michael Vick, Geno Smith

RB   Chris Ivory, Chris Johnson, Bilal Powell

WR:  Eric Decker, Quincy Enunwa, Jeremy Kerley

OL: Willie Colon, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold, B. Winters

DL: Damon Harrison, Mohammed Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson

LB: David Harris, Demario Davis, Calvin Pace

S: Calvin Pryor, Antonio allen, Rontez Miles

CB: Darrin Walls, Dee Milliner, Dexter McDougle, Marcus Williams

K: Nick Folk

Not a great roster, but a solid core, coupled with a ton of cap space and full compliment of draft picks should have led to a better situation than we're in right now. 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd say the same for Mangini that I'd say for Herm, Rex, Bowles, or any other Jets HC: he's not the GM. If you want to point to Mangini wanting certain players, and was at odds with Tannenbaum on the subject, you could point to that. 

Vilma clearly didn't fit Mangini's scheme, would get himself taken out of plays by the offense's backs and get dragged past the first down marker, but Tannenbaum got fleeced and jumped on the low trade before March. It wasn't the last time he got screwed over by trade/contract language, this one allowing the Saints to wait a day to sign him to an extension so it would technically be a UFA signing for NO rather than an extension. Or that's my recollection, anyway, which may be faulty after this many years.

The Sanchez extension did hurt the Jets. Badly. Based on this extension, the Jets rationalized picking up Tebow to "challenge" him, and passed on a QB in the upcoming draft, including a great one the team's lead scout had a stiffy over.

No, it was a 2nd round tender on Clemens. At the time there were only 3 RFA tenders: 1st + a 3rd, 1st rounder, and original draft round. Clemens was drafted in round 2 so he was tagged at that amount. It was an symptom of Clemens - good enough to be a backup for years, but just not good enough to be a #1 starter - getting screwed by his higher draft slot. He was trapped; if he didn't sign with the Jets nobody would have touched him with that 2nd round tag, and signing the offer still didn't guarantee him a roster spot like it does with franchise tagged players who sign (as Tannenbaum showed everyone on Hard Knocks). It was uncomfortable to watch as a fan.

He made a lot of good moves, which I acknowledge, and some of the bad signings look worse without context (as I originally replied in my prior post). But he made a lot of mistakes that had butterfly effects into still more mistakes meant to correct earlier ones.

Vilma was coming off major injury, where was the market for him?  It was bad timing w/ the new coaching staff coming in.

Tebow was NEVER brought here to challenge mark, he was brought here to be a Brad Smith type.  if they liked a QB they should have drafted him, Mark being here didn't stop them from drafting Wilson.  

 

also, let's not forget about the short term final 8/final 4 rules after 2009 and 2010.  

on clemens:

Quote

After failing to attract any suitors as a restricted free agent, quarterback Kellen Clemens signed his qualifying tender with the Jets, the team announced Monday. It's a one-year, $1.176 million contract.

Another team would have had to compensate the Jets with a third-round pick for Clemens, and no one was willing to pay that price for a quarterback with a 4-5 starting record and a career passer rating of 59.7.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/backup-quarterback-kellen-clemens-signs-restricted-free-agent-tender-new-york-jets-article-1.163925

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/13/kellen-clemens-signs-his-tender/

 

 

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Kimo Von Oelhoffen did something here? 

not really but I must have missed when we overpaid for him?

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9 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

not really but I must have missed when we overpaid for him?

Think you might be forgetting his salary/bonus.

8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you guys act like every signing has to be a top tier, pro bowl caliber signing. 

I actually like Tannenbaum. I think he gets a bum rap around here, but it was time for him to go.  von Oelhoffen's only value was helping install the 3-4.  I didn't think Dyson or Shephard were bad at all. 

IMO giving Sanchez hush money after the Manning flirtation was a big mistake, as was trading for Tebow.  I honestly think that team might have done better if they just let Drew Stanton have an honest shot at competing.

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19 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Vilma was coming off major injury, where was the market for him?  It was bad timing w/ the new coaching staff coming in.

Tebow was NEVER brought here to challenge mark, he was brought here to be a Brad Smith type.  if they liked a QB they should have drafted him, Mark being here didn't stop them from drafting Wilson.  

 

also, let's not forget about the short term final 8/final 4 rules after 2009 and 2010.  

on clemens:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/backup-quarterback-kellen-clemens-signs-restricted-free-agent-tender-new-york-jets-article-1.163925

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/13/kellen-clemens-signs-his-tender/

 

 

not really but I must have missed when we overpaid for him?

Multiple teams were very interested in Vilma. It's even possible he took the 2nd best offer he had at that time, figuring the Saints would never risk letting Vilma reach free agency before extending him.

The Jets repeatedly said Tebow was brought in to help push Sanchez, to create some competition at the position (more than there would be with Stanton). You can believe otherwise, but that is what the team claimed.

I acknowledged those rules in my first reply (maybe you didn't see the post). Taylor was the best one we could sign buy CBA mandate, and we had to let go of our kicker to even get our spending ability up by that much.

I stand corrected on Clemens. There's ordinarily no such thing as a 3rd round tender for a player who wasn't drafted in round 3. I forgot that we already RFA tagged Leon and B.Smith with 2nd rounders. He was tagged at that 2nd round amount, but the league didn't allow 3 of them and penalized teams for the attempt. Doesn't change the point, as clearly nobody was giving up a 3rd rounder for him any more than they'd have given up a 2nd rounder.

Kimo was a huge bust. He was brought in to start as an ideal, experienced puzzle piece for Mangini's 3-4 and he was terrible. A player can be a terrible pickup as a starter without also wasting so many millions the way Maccagnan does it. When a bust-player is acquired, a team stops looking to fill the slot he supposedly filled.

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Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Multiple teams were very interested in Vilma. It's even possible he took the 2nd best offer he had at that time, figuring the Saints would never risk letting Vilma reach free agency before extending him.

The Jets repeatedly said he was brought in to help push Sanchez, to create some competition at the position (more than there would be with Stanton). You can believe otherwise, but that is what the team claimed.

I acknowledged those rules in my first reply (maybe you didn't see the post). Taylor was the best one we could sign buy CBA mandate, and we had to let go of our kicker to even get our spending ability up by that much.

I stand corrected on Clemens. There's ordinarily no such thing as a 3rd round tender for a player who wasn't drafted in round 3. I forgot that we already RFA tagged Leon and B.Smith with 2nd rounders. He was tagged at that 2nd round amount, but the league didn't allow 3 of them and penalized teams for the attempt. Doesn't change the point, as clearly nobody was giving up a 3rd rounder for him any more than they'd have given up a 2nd rounder.

Kimo was a huge bust. He was brought in to start as an ideal, experienced puzzle piece for Mangini's 3-4 and he was terrible. A player can be a terrible pickup as a starter without also wasting so many millions the way Maccagnan does it. When a bust-player is acquired, a team stops looking to fill the slot he supposedly filled.

I don't recall all the teams interested, I just remember he was coming off major injury and it was known he wasn't a fit here anymore.  I can't imagine we could have brought back a blockbuster.

he was never brought in to push Sanchez, the Jets never even talked about him as a QB specifically.  

Taylor did nothing for us and I hated losing Feely at the time but Folk became a very good K for us though he had an up and down 2010 season.

Kimo wasn't some high price, high expectation guy.  he was brought in as an experienced player who would be a solid starter.  nothing more.

 

 

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Just now, nyjunc said:

do you ever offer any opinions? I guess being like the old muppets in the balcony is kind of funny but at some point you can actually try to discuss football.

Which of these has "Mangini written all over it"?

A. Nick Mangold

B. Brad Smith

C. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

D. Darrelle Revis

E. Vernon Gholston

F. Leon Washington

G. David Harris

H. All of the above

I. Gholston only, (the rest Had Tannenbaum Written All Over It)

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Just now, T0mShane said:

Which of these has "Mangini written all over it"?

A. Nick Mangold

B. Brad Smith

C. D'Brickashaw Ferguson

D. Darrelle Revis

E. Vernon Gholston

F. Leon Washington

G. David Harris

H. All of the above

I. Gholston only, (the rest Had Tannenbaum Written All Over It)

I forgot, the genius Eric Mangini drafted all the good players and all the busts were Tannenbaum.  Tannenbaum sucks, it was all the Mangenius which was why so many teams were fighting to hire him in their FO and crappy old Tannenbaum had to settle for rebuilding one of the worst franchises in the sport into a playoff team.

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Just now, nyjunc said:

I forgot, the genius Eric Mangini drafted all the good players and all the busts were Tannenbaum.  Tannenbaum sucks, it was all the Mangenius which was why so many teams were fighting to hire him in their FO and crappy old Tannenbaum had to settle for rebuilding one of the worst franchises in the sport into a playoff team.

Ya

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21 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Kimo wasn't some high price, high expectation guy.  he was brought in as an experienced player who would be a solid starter.  nothing more.

Your memory is a bit faulty.  3/$10M with a $3+M bonus was a decent chunk of change back then.  The dude was like their #1 FA target.  They got him and he blew. 

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7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your memory is a bit faulty.  3/$10M with a $3+M bonus was a decent chunk of change back then.  The dude was like their #1 FA target.  They got him and he blew. 

how much was guaranteed? that is all that matters

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24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I forgot, the genius Eric Mangini drafted all the good players and all the busts were Tannenbaum.  Tannenbaum sucks, it was all the Mangenius which was why so many teams were fighting to hire him in their FO and crappy old Tannenbaum had to settle for rebuilding one of the worst franchises in the sport into a playoff team.

Or it could have been an organizational thing. That draft was a sh*t show and Gholston was the right pick based on value. The only player that might have been right there was Mayo and that would have been a reach at a nonpremium position. Tannenbaum was the best GM we've had since even Parcells. Tanny's teams were competitive for longer and we were contenders for the majority of his tenure. At the end it looks like he ran out of juice and made some absurd decisions i.e. Tebow, Sanchez extension, Holmes, Mason.

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52 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Or it could have been an organizational thing. That draft was a sh*t show and Gholston was the right pick based on value. The only player that might have been right there was Mayo and that would have been a reach at a nonpremium position. Tannenbaum was the best GM we've had since even Parcells. Tanny's teams were competitive for longer and we were contenders for the majority of his tenure. At the end it looks like he ran out of juice and made some absurd decisions i.e. Tebow, Sanchez extension, Holmes, Mason.

He wasn't able to continue the method of short-term big-contract acquisitions while neglecting the draft.  He was all-in on FA's which has a point of diminishing returns eventually.  In the end, Hard Knocks made him a celebrity and he found he really enjoyed it.  Then it was making splashes on the NY back pages that motivated him.  When he was finally let go, he left a dumpster fire behind him.  

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