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AFJF

Fess up...your hits and misses

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I'm sure if Matt Stafford hurts his leg and misses time this season, the Jets can grab him for $2 million a year if he hits FA.

Matt Stafford is an elite QB, on pace to earn quite possibly the biggest QB contract in history (more thanks to timing, but still) and you are comparing him and Geno's situation?

Why not use Tyrod Taylor then? Back-up QB, gets to the Pro-Bowl, has basically the same AAV as Geno is making this year when he first signs, and then gets a contract? 

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3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Matt Stafford is an elite QB, on pace to earn quite possibly the biggest QB contract in history (more thanks to timing, but still) and you are comparing him and Geno's situation?

Why not use Tyrod Taylor then? Back-up QB, gets to the Pro-Bowl, has basically the same AAV as Geno is making this year when he first signs, and then gets a contract? 

I'm talking about this idea that Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury.

Good young QBs make a bazillion dollars a year in the NFL.  If a young QB hits FA and the best he can do is get a backup gig for $850K, it's not because he hurt his leg.  It's because he's not good.

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32 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'm talking about this idea that Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury.

Good young QBs make a bazillion dollars a year in the NFL.  If a young QB hits FA and the best he can do is get a backup gig for $850K, it's not because he hurt his leg.  It's because he's not good.

In 2015, veteran Shaun Hill got a 2 year $6 million contract.  Same year, youngster Tyrod got a 3 year, $3,3 million contract.  

Who would you rather have? The old veteran career back up?  Or the young guy with potential?  So why didn't Tyrod get a bigger contract?  

Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury and sitting for essentially two years.  

 

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11 minutes ago, win4ever said:

In 2015, veteran Shaun Hill got a 2 year $6 million contract.  Same year, youngster Tyrod got a 3 year, $3,3 million contract.  

Who would you rather have? The old veteran career back up?  Or the young guy with potential?  So why didn't Tyrod get a bigger contract?  

Geno got $850K because he's coming off an injury and sitting for essentially two years.  

 

How many NFL starts did Tyrod have when he signed?

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

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Just now, AFJF said:

How many NFL starts did Tyrod have when he signed?

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

How many NFL starts did Fitz have when he signed?  

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

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3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

How many NFL starts did Fitz have when he signed?  

How many NFL starts did Geno have when he signed?

What does that have to do with my comment about how good young QB's make a ton of  money in this league?  

That was my point and you countered with Tyrod Taylor.

How many starts did he have when he got his $3.3 million and how many starts did GeNOOOOO have when he got  his $850K?

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

Matt Stafford is an elite QB, on pace to earn quite possibly the biggest QB contract in history (more thanks to timing, but still) and you are comparing him and Geno's situation?

Why not use Tyrod Taylor then? Back-up QB, gets to the Pro-Bowl, has basically the same AAV as Geno is making this year when he first signs, and then gets a contract? 

There was a point in time when Drew Brees was a promising young QB with just two good seasons under his belt.

After one of those good seasons, his throwing arm fell off and had to be re-attached with glue and masking tape.

The Saints paid him $10 million per season even though he had to sign with his left hand to avoid further damage (and that was 11 years ago when the cap was much lower)

But I'm supposed to believe that the reason Geno Smith got $850K is because he hurt his leg?

Edited by AFJF

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Just now, AFJF said:

What does that have to do with my comment about how good young QB's make a ton of  money in this league?  

That was my point and you countered with Tyrod Taylor.

How many starts did he have when he got his $3.3 million and how many starts did GeNOOOOO have when he got  his $850K?

You said the reason Tyrod didn't get money was because there was a lack of starts, implying that the greater exposure through starts would have led him to more money, right? 

So if you can use the lack of starts for Tryod not getting money, why can't Geno use the lack of starts the last two years as his reason?  

My whole point was that Geno didn't get paid more because he didn't start the last two years, aside from one game.  Tyrod didn't start for Baltimore either, therefore limiting his value as well.  So Tyrod explains my point that a lack of exposure leads to limited contracts, plus an injury.  

You also countered with Matt Stafford, but that again goes into established star status instead of the guys we are talking about.   

How would any team know how good/bad Tyrod was without exposure?  In the same theory, how would anyone know about Geno without recent starts? Yes, good young QBs will make money, but they also have to be play.  If Geno played the second half of this season and still got that contract, then I wouldn't contest it.  But I'm not judging Geno vs. Fitz based on the contract they received because Bowles was too scared to bench a QB one year, and then Geno got hurt in the first game he played this year.  

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Just now, win4ever said:

You said the reason Tyrod didn't get money was because there was a lack of starts, implying that the greater exposure through starts would have led him to more money, right? 

So if you can use the lack of starts for Tryod not getting money, why can't Geno use the lack of starts the last two years as his reason?  

My whole point was that Geno didn't get paid more because he didn't start the last two years, aside from one game.  Tyrod didn't start for Baltimore either, therefore limiting his value as well.  So Tyrod explains my point that a lack of exposure leads to limited contracts, plus an injury.  

You also countered with Matt Stafford, but that again goes into established star status instead of the guys we are talking about.   

How would any team know how good/bad Tyrod was without exposure?  In the same theory, how would anyone know about Geno without recent starts? Yes, good young QBs will make money, but they also have to be play.  If Geno played the second half of this season and still got that contract, then I wouldn't contest it.  But I'm not judging Geno vs. Fitz based on the contract they received because Bowles was too scared to bench a QB one year, and then Geno got hurt in the first game he played this year.  

That's not what I was saying at all.  I was saying that Tyrod got more than Geno despite having not played nearly as much as Geno.  Proving my point that young QB's in the NFL will make good money if they show something.  Tyrod had shown close to nothing but was still paid more than 3x what Geno got.  The league has seen a lot of Geno.  Clearly they don't like what they've seen, or he would have gotten wayyy  more than what Tyrod got when they'd seen close to nothing out of him.

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My two biggest Bombs were Johnny Manziel and Stephen Hill In recent years. 2 guys I really wanted us to draft

Hated Gholston felt he was a scam from day 1 was praying we would pass on him. Yeah I pulled for the guy but god did I see that suckage in college when he would get a Sack then disappear for the entire game.

I didn't have much of an opinion on Sanchez when we drafted him But I felt he would develop  ...still feel like we destroyed him but who cares at this stage.

Hated the Geno Smith Pick never felt he would amount to anything.

I liked Rex but I knew his gig would get old once the team had a down year. Rex was his own worst enemy. Then I went from liking the guy to OMFG get him out of here and his tent with him.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

There was a point in time when Drew Brees was a promising young QB with just two good seasons under his belt.

After one of those good seasons, his throwing arm fell off and had to be re-attached with glue and masking tape.

The Saints paid him $10 million per season even though he had to sign with his left hand to avoid further damage (and that was 11 years ago when the cap was much lower)

But I'm supposed to believe that the reason Geno Smith got $850K is because he hurt his leg?

Drew Brees was an established QB when he hit free agency, with the Chargers with the Chargers sitting first round pick Philip Rivers for two years for him.

Yes, he got injured, but Brees was coming off two years where he threw for over 64% with 27 and 24 touchdowns.  

Are you really comparing that situation to Brees as to why Geno wouldn't get money?  

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Just now, win4ever said:

Drew Brees was an established QB when he hit free agency, with the Chargers with the Chargers sitting first round pick Philip Rivers for two years for him.

Yes, he got injured, but Brees was coming off two years where he threw for over 64% with 27 and 24 touchdowns.  

Are you really comparing that situation to Brees as to why Geno wouldn't get money?  

Drew Brees' arm fell off and he got $10 mil per season.

Geno hurt his knee and got $850K.

 

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Just now, AFJF said:

That's not what I was saying at all.  I was saying that Tyrod got more than Geno despite having not played nearly as much as Geno.  Proving my point that young QB's in the NFL will make good money if they show something.  Tyrod had shown close to nothing but was still paid more than 3x what Geno got.  The league has seen a lot of Geno.  Clearly they don't like what they've seen, or he would have gotten wayyy  more than what Tyrod got when they'd seen close to nothing out of him.

Tyrod didn't get more money, he got the similar AAV, which just means that both of them got less money because there was a lack of exposure.  In fact, if we learned anything from the negotiations last year with Fitz, players want similar money with less years because then they can rework the deal next year.  You argued that the NFL sides with Fitz because he got more money, and I countered with Shaun Hill.  

The league last saw Geno Smith fully in 2014, which is exactly why he didn't get the money that Fitz did.  

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

Drew Brees' arm fell off and he got $10 mil per season.

Geno hurt his knee and got $850K.

 

Again, established vs. non established. 

That's like saying Gronk, still getting money even with injuries, because he's already established.  

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Just now, win4ever said:

Tyrod didn't get more money, he got the similar AAV, which just means that both of them got less money because there was a lack of exposure.  In fact, if we learned anything from the negotiations last year with Fitz, players want similar money with less years because then they can rework the deal next year.  You argued that the NFL sides with Fitz because he got more money, and I countered with Shaun Hill.  

The league last saw Geno Smith fully in 2014, which is exactly why he didn't get the money that Fitz did.  

Tryod Taylor- 0 Starts, $1 mil per year deal

Geno Smith- 30 starts, $850K for one year

How much do you think Geno gets in FA next year after he gets some pre-season exposure with a loaded offense?

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Just now, win4ever said:

Again, established vs. non established. 

That's like saying Gronk, still getting money even with injuries, because he's already established.  

We agree.  Geno has established himself as an $850K per year QB.

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Just now, AFJF said:

Tryod Taylor- 0 Starts, $1 mil per year deal

Geno Smith- 30 starts, $850K for one year

How much do you think Geno gets in FA next year after he gets some pre-season exposure with a loaded offense?

How many starts in the last two years? 

Now, I'm not sure he will get the playing time.  But assuming he gets 4+ starts, I'll say he makes more than Fitz is making this year. 

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Just now, win4ever said:

How many starts in the last two years? 

Now, I'm not sure he will get the playing time.  But assuming he gets 4+ starts, I'll say he makes more than Fitz is making this year. 

Why does that even matter?  If he was a good QB, would teams honestly pass on him b/c he hasn't played for two years?

If that were the case, NFL teams would laugh at how stupid the Jets were for slowing Geno's journey to Canton, and they'd be fighting over him when FA started.  It didn't happen like that.  He sat around for a few months, waited for a starting gig, didn't get one and settled for $850K to sit on the bench.

 

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

We agree.  Geno has established himself as an $850K per year QB.

Nope, one is unknown because of a lack of exposure like Tyrod, the other was established.  

You can go on with Stafford or Peyton or Brees as examples but they are different because they were stars before they got injured, or in Stafford's case hypothetically injured.  

 

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2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Why does that even matter?  If he was a good QB, would teams honestly pass on him b/c he hasn't played for two years?

If that were the case, NFL teams would laugh at how stupid the Jets were for slowing Geno's journey to Canton, and they'd be fighting over him when FA started.  It didn't happen like that.  He sat around for a few months, waited for a starting gig, didn't get one and settled for $850K to sit on the bench.

 

So then, why did teams pass on Taylor?  

Again, so why did teams pass on Taylor?

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Just now, win4ever said:

So then, why did teams pass on Taylor?  

Again, so why did teams pass on Taylor?

Are you seriously asking me why teams weren't clamouring to sign a guy who had never started an NFL game?  I'll tell you why.  It's because the guy had never started an NFL game. He was an unknown commodity.  Geno Smith is a known commodity.  That's why nobody offered him a starting job and he had to take $850K.

 

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Just now, AFJF said:

Are you seriously asking me why teams weren't clamouring to sign a guy who had never started an NFL game?  I'll tell you why.  It's because the guy had never started an NFL game. He was an unknown commodity.  Geno Smith is a known commodity.  That's why nobody offered him a starting job and he had to take $850K.

 

So he is now a known commodity with 1 start over 2 years?

In 2013, Julian Edleman signed a contract for one year and 765,000, after starting a grand total of 13 games prior in 4 combined seasons.   The same season, the Pats themselves paid Danny Amendola 28 million over 5 years.   Who's the better player?  Heyward-Bay got 2.5 million.  Who's the better player?

So if NFL teams established him as a bust with his contract, were they right?

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Just now, win4ever said:

So he is now a known commodity with 1 start over 2 years?

In 2013, Julian Edleman signed a contract for one year and 765,000, after starting a grand total of 13 games prior in 4 combined seasons.   The same season, the Pats themselves paid Danny Amendola 28 million over 5 years.   Who's the better player?  Heyward-Bay got 2.5 million.  Who's the better player?

So if NFL teams established him as a bust with his contract, were they right?

I suppose if I were a Geno Smith fan, I'd ignore his first 29 starts too...LOL

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Just now, AFJF said:

I suppose if I were a Geno Smith fan, I'd ignore his first 29 starts too...LOL

So the league was wise to ignore Edleman's first 13 starts?

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6 minutes ago, win4ever said:

So the league was wise to ignore Edleman's first 13 starts?

I have no idea what a wide receiver for the Patriots has to do with a quarterback for the Jets.

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

I have no idea what a wide receiver for the Patriots has to do with a quarterback for the Jets.

An example of the league underpaying someone because of a lack of exposure.  

What does Drew Brees and Matt Stafford have anything to do with the Jets QB situation?

My whole point is this, Geno Smith, if given a chance to start last year and been able to stay healthy, he would make more than Ryan Fitzpatrick.  His lack of starts and injury means he has to take a one year contract where he can prove his value if he gets a shot.  Same thing with Edleman, or even Tyrod taking a chance to prove things if they get a shot.  

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because I doubt GMs are going to read these posts and reevaluate their thinking, but I refuse to accept that Ryan Fitzpatrick was the right choice for the team last year, based on the contracts that they got this year, when both of them took pay cuts, and only one of them actually played for any significant time last year.  If Geno had played even 5 games, and still got less money, then I would have absolutely no problem.  

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To get this thread back on topic, I also loved the Leon Washington pick and even did a write up for DraftDaddy with him as a potential steal before the draft.

I also thougth Darrell McClover was going to a be a late-round steal.

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Just now, win4ever said:

An example of the league underpaying someone because of a lack of exposure.  

What does Drew Brees and Matt Stafford have anything to do with the Jets QB situation?

My whole point is this, Geno Smith, if given a chance to start last year and been able to stay healthy, he would make more than Ryan Fitzpatrick.  His lack of starts and injury means he has to take a one year contract where he can prove his value if he gets a shot.  Same thing with Edleman, or even Tyrod taking a chance to prove things if they get a shot.  

It doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because I doubt GMs are going to read these posts and reevaluate their thinking, but I refuse to accept that Ryan Fitzpatrick was the right choice for the team last year, based on the contracts that they got this year, when both of them took pay cuts, and only one of them actually played for any significant time last year.  If Geno had played even 5 games, and still got less money, then I would have absolutely no problem.  

Geno does not have a lack of exposure.  If you think 30+ starts is a lack of exposure, I don't know what else to say to you.

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Just now, AFJF said:

Geno does not have a lack of exposure.  If you think 30+ starts is a lack of exposure, I don't know what else to say to you.

Again, how many starts did he get the last two years?

I've also posted numbers showing that Geno was better than Fitz up until this point in their careers (First 900 passes or so).

11-18, 57.5%, 3.1 TD%, 4.2 INT%, 6.9 Y/A, 185.7 Y/G, 71.5 ratings in ages 23 and 24 (Geno Smith)

10-17, 59.5%, 3.2 TD %, 3.5 INT%, 6.1 Y/A, 199.7 Y/G, 73.1 ratings in ages 23 and 24

Who is the second guy?

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Just now, win4ever said:

Again, how many starts did he get the last two years?

I've also posted numbers showing that Geno was better than Fitz up until this point in their careers (First 900 passes or so).

11-18, 57.5%, 3.1 TD%, 4.2 INT%, 6.9 Y/A, 185.7 Y/G, 71.5 ratings in ages 23 and 24 (Geno Smith)

10-17, 59.5%, 3.2 TD %, 3.5 INT%, 6.1 Y/A, 199.7 Y/G, 73.1 ratings in ages 23 and 24

Who is the second guy?

Julian Edelman?

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