Kirk Cousins - the future Jets nobody here seems to want to talk about

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

Falk's arm isn't elite, but it's not shabby either. Average I'd say. He does however, best everyone in the accuracy, touch, timing and anticipation department. If you snoop around, you'll find articles supporting that. At the risk of getting exiled to Saturn, I kind like him to Tom Brady... yea. 

Rosen's an anomoly. The most gifted QB next to luck in the last 20 years. Mechanics, footwork. etc. near perfect. It's his head that we're not sure about. 

Thanks for the info, its going to be an awesome year of college football with all these QBs and us basically going in knowing we need one.

I get that about Rosen and he does look flawless throwing the ball.  but if your college teammates dont like you, the pro guys whose livelihood depends on your performance sure wont.  To me something about Darnold and the way he effortlessly moves around the pocket and consistently hits throws after moving reminds me of Rogers.  

[varjet]

8 hours ago, Paradis said:

Falk's arm isn't elite, but it's not shabby either. Average I'd say. He does however, best everyone in the accuracy, touch, timing and anticipation department. If you snoop around, you'll find articles supporting that. At the risk of getting exiled to Saturn, I kind like him to Tom Brady... yea. 

Rosen's an anomoly. The most gifted QB next to luck in the last 20 years. Mechanics, footwork. etc. near perfect. It's his head that we're not sure about. 

Todd Marinovich. 

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, BCJet said:

Thanks for the info, its going to be an awesome year of college football with all these QBs and us basically going in knowing we need one.

I get that about Rosen and he does look flawless throwing the ball.  but if your college teammates dont like you, the pro guys whose livelihood depends on your performance sure wont.  To me something about Darnold and the way he effortlessly moves around the pocket and consistently hits throws after moving reminds me of Rogers.  

Baring Hackenberg taking us to the playoffs, we're going to be selecting a top QB IMO. Nearly each one of them have some kind of narrative going into the season; Darnold's small sample size, Rosen's attitude/passion, Jackson's growth as a passer, Allen's Jeckyl/hyde thing, Falk and Rudolf... well, they might the only 2 who just have to keep doing what they're doing... Also, we haven't even talked about Ferguson or Lee. 

 It's going to be a nerd's wet dream this fall.

 

[LionelRichie]

19 hours ago, Paradis said:

Falk's arm isn't elite, but it's not shabby either. Average I'd say. He does however, best everyone in the accuracy, touch, timing and anticipation department. If you snoop around, you'll find articles supporting that. At the risk of getting exiled to Saturn, I kind like him to Tom Brady... yea. 

Rosen's an anomoly. The most gifted QB next to luck in the last 20 years. Mechanics, footwork. etc. near perfect. It's his head that we're not sure about. 

Jackson is an NFL WR not a QB and forget Rosen's head, right now it's his shoulder that nobody is sure about.  "soft tissue" sounds an awful lot like labrum or rotator cuff and we all know how that ended for Chadwick.   

[long suffering jets fan]

20 hours ago, Paradis said:

the two are intimately linked.

 

And hell no to Cousins - are you guys insane? He's not the worst option, but fck me if I had to live through this past decade to just settle for that. top 10 pick/QB or GTFO

Why not both?  They're not mutually exclusive.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 7/14/2017 at 8:14 AM, Smashmouth said:

Always wanted Cousins here but I'm not sure that will happen. If we are really bad this year would you rather pay Cousins 25 + Million per or draft one of the top prospects in next years draft. Not only that but the guy also has to want to come here because if hes ONLY about the money and the highest bidder do we really want him over one of those young hungry guys ?

 

Why does it need to be "or" why not do both. If you think one of these rookies will jump into the NFL and be productive right away, you may be disappointed.  I'd sign Cousins, or Bridgewater and draft the best available QB.  Let them compete in camp next year and keep the best 3.  That's how you fix the QB position.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

Jackson is an NFL WR not a QB and forget Rosen's head, right now it's his shoulder that nobody is sure about.  "soft tissue" sounds an awful lot like labrum or rotator cuff and we all know how that ended for Chadwick.   

Yea, the injury thing is legit. By all accounts though he's looked good thus far. Guess we'll see...

Jackson is unfairly billed as "just another dual threat college QB" IMO, he's twice the passer. He's got more in common with Newton and Vick than Pryor or Tebow.

[Smashmouth]

7 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Why does it need to be "or" why not do both. If you think one of these rookies will jump into the NFL and be productive right away, you may be disappointed.  I'd sign Cousins, or Bridgewater and draft the best available QB.  Let them compete in camp next year and keep the best 3.  That's how you fix the QB position.

If you pay 25 mil per for a franchise QB no way you spend the top five pick on another franchise QB that would be insane. If you have your guy, lets assume that's Cousins, then you start building your team around him, wouldn't that first round pick be better suited for a position of need like a dynamic RB or a premier pass rusher ?

Sorry but paying a QB 25 mil+ means hes the guy. You don't then turn around and draft say a Darnold or a Rosen if we happen to pick that high. Not to mention if you do sign Cousins the guarantee is probably going to be in the 80-90 million range. In this case you might take a QB in the later rounds OR you just stick with Hack and Petty or one of the two to play behind Cousins.

Cousins has enough of a resume that a team should know if hes the guy or not. Everything else is a total crap shoot.

So no you cant do both it makes no sense.

[Fantasy Island]

32 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

If you pay 25 mil per for a franchise QB no way you spend the top five pick on another franchise QB that would be insane. If you have your guy, lets assume that's Cousins, then you start building your team around him, wouldn't that first round pick be better suited for a position of need like a dynamic RB or a premier pass rusher ?

Sorry but paying a QB 25 mil+ means hes the guy. You don't then turn around and draft say a Darnold or a Rosen if we happen to pick that high. Not to mention if you do sign Cousins the guarantee is probably going to be in the 80-90 million range. In this case you might take a QB in the later rounds OR you just stick with Hack and Petty or one of the two to play behind Cousins.

Cousins has enough of a resume that a team should know if hes the guy or not. Everything else is a total crap shoot.

So no you cant do both it makes no sense.

That is how our current GM is.  He believes he is the smartest man in the room....  He will not draft a QB in the first round even if we go 0-16.  He is just that stupid.  I would love to get Cousins because he is legit.  Also with the QB rules the NFL has, he could play for 10 more years at a high level.

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

That is how our current GM is.  He believes he is the smartest man in the room....  He will not draft a QB in the first round even if we go 0-16.  He is just that stupid.  I would love to get Cousins because he is legit.  Also with the QB rules the NFL has, he could play for 10 more years at a high level.

sorry but this year had a sh*tty QB class I don't blame him for not drafting one of those QB;s if he knew he was going to gut the team and rebuild since next years QB class is much much better. Its called thinking ahead and being smart not being stupid.

[Fantasy Island]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

sorry but this year had a sh*tty QB class I don't blame him for not drafting one of those QB;s if he knew he was going to gut the team and rebuild since next years QB class is much much better. Its called thinking ahead and being smart not being stupid.

I still would have picked Watson, but how do you explain picking Hackenberg last year?   They had a private workout with him and STILL picked him in the 2nd round!

[thadude]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:28 AM, Jet Nut said:

Agree.  Hate it when all these shltty QBs inflate their numbers by throwing for around 5K yards, 25 plus TDs and single digit INTs.  How much does that suck.  

Jameis?  

I'm so eating crow about Jameis Winston he's only the best young qb to come out of college since Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson all I did was say that while people like you would say he'd suck because he stole crab legs

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

I still would have picked Watson, but how do you explain picking Hackenberg last year?   They had a private workout with him and STILL picked him in the 2nd round!

Watson and Kizer will probably be as good or better than any qb in next year's draft class not named Darnold or Allen

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, thadude said:

I'm so eating crow about Jameis Winston he's only the best young qb to come out of college since Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson all I did was say that while people like you would say he'd suck because he stole crab legs

Wrong guy, I wanted Jameis from day 1.  He was the leader at FSU. Won a national championship as a true freshman.  Lost the BCS championship his next year, made the final 4.  

[thadude]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Wrong guy, I wanted Jameis from day 1.  He was the leader at FSU. Won a national championship as a true freshman.  Lost the BCS championship his next year, made the final 4.  

I wanted Winston before day 1 and was livid when we had that meaningless late season win against the Steelers. You're either confused or just wrong again

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, thadude said:

I wanted Winston before day 1 and was livid when we had that meaningless late season win against the Steelers. You're either confused or just wrong again

Wrong?  You said Jameis never won a national championship.  You're clueless on every level here

[sciond]

at the end of the day

Cousins is not our guy

we suck enough to finally draft one of the promising QB's coming out of college

[jamesr]

On 15/07/2017 at 1:12 AM, MDL_JET said:

 

Sad but very true. We need need to draft a top QB badly. 

One thing we're good at as an organisation, is drafting our top QB badly.  

[Smashmouth]

12 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

I still would have picked Watson, but how do you explain picking Hackenberg last year?   They had a private workout with him and STILL picked him in the 2nd round!

we can revisit this when we actually get to see Hackenberg get a chance to play and grow in the system as the year unfolds. The Kid has the talent and hes supposed to be pretty smart so lets see if it all clicks for him before we trash him

 

[Smashmouth]

10 hours ago, thadude said:

I'm so eating crow about Jameis Winston he's only the best young qb to come out of college since Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson all I did was say that while people like you would say he'd suck because he stole crab legs

Winston had his Int's go up hes barely at 60 % completion rating so he threw 15 Ints year 1 then 18 Ints year 2 hes playing okay for a young QB nothing special  and hes not doing anything remarkable running the ball since his rushing average is horrible for a QB at under 4 Yards per rush. Best young QB since Luck ? That's a pretty bad sign for QB's if this guys is put in that category. He had a lot of turnovers in college hes had a lot his first 2 years in the NFL I'll start calling him good when his Int's go down and he becomes more accurate. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

we can revisit this when we actually get to see Hackenberg get a chance to play and grow in the system as the year unfolds. The Kid has the talent and hes supposed to be pretty smart so lets see if it all clicks for him before we trash him

 

 

57 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Winston had his Int's go up hes barely at 60 % completion rating so he threw 15 Ints year 1 then 18 Ints year 2 hes playing okay for a young QB nothing special  and hes not doing anything remarkable running the ball since his rushing average is horrible for a QB at under 4 Yards per rush. Best young QB since Luck ? That's a pretty bad sign for QB's if this guys is put in that category. He had a lot of turnovers in college hes had a lot his first 2 years in the NFL I'll start calling him good when his Int's go down and he becomes more accurate. 

Barely 60% in the NFL is a problem, but let's see what the Kid who never even hit 60% in college can do?

[Smashmouth]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Barely 60% in the NFL is a problem, but let's see what the Kid who never even hit 60% in college can do?

you have a sample size in the NFL from Winston you have no sample size from Hackenberg yet so lets wait and see before we judge. At this point we're talking NFL not college but if you want to talk college Winston had his fair share of turnovers there as well while Hack was in a program that was in complete disarray 

The only reason today's QB's are hitting at the percentage rates they are hitting on compared to what happened in the 50's 60's and 70's is because of one simple reason the short pass which is an extension of the running game. Drew Brees had 190 passes to Running backs one year that did not exist in the previous decades. So with that being said you do want to see QB's % in the mid sixties or better. But the type of offense still needs to be looked at.

QB's threw the ball down field years ago, the first QB to really start featuring the short high percentage passing game was Kenny Anderson and he hit 70 % completions which was unheard of and that was the early 80's . The next guy was Joe Montana who ran the west coast offense which featured the short pass and the philosophy of getting ball into your play makers hands at a high percentage and let them do their thing. 

If today's QB's ran those type offenses pre 1980 they would be dwelling in the mid 50 to very low 60 % range just like they did back then. Its a different game now and some QB's don't have the luxury of 3-4 RB's that can all catch the ball. Just like in the case of the Jets who had zero RB's who could catch the ball for years and never did anything about it not to mention we went years with bad WR's as well.

[slats]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:22 AM, Paradis said:

ehh, I'm having a hard time getting over your perception that there's a drop off between Allen, and Jackson and Falk. The latter two could easily leap frog Allen. Jackson as of right now is in the thick of that conversation. Luke Falk's offense is the only reason why he's got even a shroud of doubt around him... that same offense that Mahomes played in. I'd take any of those latter 3 under Rosen and Darnold. Even prefer Falk ATM. 

How could we possible not get a shot at one of these QBs without our own (Hackenberg) playing well? We're gonna win 8-9 games and terrible QB play? 

We're just not set up to pay Cousins. That would be more an ARZ or CIN type situation where they think he can be the missing piece. We'd have to commit to that investment prior to the draft... you really see this regime committing to a 29 year old QB with this roster prior to a QB loaded draft? 

doesn't add up IMO

I tend to agree with this post. 

First of all, the hypothetical in the OP is difficult to conceive. The QBs completely suck, yet they and this roster win enough games to be out of the top three picks in the draft next year? Not likely. Also unlikely is a Kirk Cousins having multiple teams after him, and him choosing the Jets as his best opportunity. In a world where the projected contracts for this guy are reaching the $25-30M/year range, with $80-100M guaranteed, how much over THAT would the Jets need to pay the 30-year-old QB to secure him? I'm thinking a good bit. 

And the fit is wrong. The Jets are a young team with a ton of question marks everywhere, especially on offense. How long will it take them to get the team up to speed to their new 30-year-old QB? Are they now drafting a LT or a WR in the first round? I'd hope so. 

No, I think if the Jets are somehow out of the top three picks, they need to trade up into the QB they like best. All I wanted in the first round this year was a trade down that gave them an extra first rounder next year. That really would've been nice. But if they foolishly go with McCown long enough to win five games before deciding over five or six games that, yes, Hackenberg sucks, then they need to pay whatever it takes to trade up and secure their guy. 

[Gas2No99]

Rich Cimini on Jets interest in Kirk Cousins

Rich Cimini joins to share his thoughts on whether or not the Jets might be interested in pursuing Kirk Cousins. Plus, his insight on what sort of Owner Chris Johnson will be.

 

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=20097653

 

 

[Gas2No99]

Kirk Cousins fallout could impact Jets' long-term quarterback plan

Kirk Cousins and the Washington Redskins failed to hammer out a long-term contract by Monday's deadline, and that could be a good thing for the New York Jetsin 2018.

When you're desperate for a long-term answer at quarterback, it helps to have as many options as possible.

With at least $80 million in projected salary-cap space next offseason, the Jets will have enough flexibility to make an aggressive run at Cousins if he becomes an unrestricted free agent, which seems likely after two years of failed negotiations and the prohibitive cost of using the franchise tag for a third straight year ($34.5 million).

 

If Kirk Cousins becomes an unrestricted free agent after the season, that could benefit the Jets even if he ends up with a different team. Paul Keevil/Actionplus/Icon Sportswire

Frankly, I'd be surprised if the starting-over Jets invest a massive amount of money in an older player -- Cousins will be 30 by the start of the '18 season -- but you never know what might transpire over the course of the year. As of now, the 2018 draft, which could be loaded with stud quarterbacks, appears to be the internal preference if things don't work out with Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty. It certainly would be more cost-effective than doling out a $60 million guarantee (likely more) for a veteran.

There's also the significant matter of whether Cousins would even consider the Jets. He has no connection to the current coaching staff or front office, so it would be a leap into foreign territory. The San Francisco 49ers would be the heavy favorite, as their new coach, Kyle Shanahan, was his offensive coordinator in 2012 and 2013. They seem like an ideal match. The 49ers, too, have a ton of cap room.

Ah, but the Jets would benefit from a Cousins-to-San Francisco scenario because it would remove a quarterback-hungry team from the top of the '18 draft -- i.e. one fewer team coveting Sam Darnold or Josh Allen.

One slot in the draft can mean everything; it can be the difference between a franchise quarterback and an ill-advised decision. The Jets, of all teams, know this. See: Brett Favre and Browning Nagle, 1991.

If not the Redskins, someone will sign Cousins next year, starting a trickle-down that will affect the teams that don't.

[thadude]

On July 17, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Smashmouth said:

Winston had his Int's go up hes barely at 60 % completion rating so he threw 15 Ints year 1 then 18 Ints year 2 hes playing okay for a young QB nothing special  and hes not doing anything remarkable running the ball since his rushing average is horrible for a QB at under 4 Yards per rush. Best young QB since Luck ? That's a pretty bad sign for QB's if this guys is put in that category. He had a lot of turnovers in college hes had a lot his first 2 years in the NFL I'll start calling him good when his Int's go down and he becomes more accurate. 

Jameis Winston is the best young qb to come out of college since Luck.  We'd be lucky if we draft a qb next year who is 80% the qb he is

 

But again people like you 3 years ago were comparing him to Geno and labeling him a rapist -- same guys who now want me banned for saying Hack sucks

 

[thadude]

31 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

Rich Cimini on Jets interest in Kirk Cousins

Rich Cimini joins to share his thoughts on whether or not the Jets might be interested in pursuing Kirk Cousins. Plus, his insight on what sort of Owner Chris Johnson will be.

 

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=20097653

 

 

Cimini has about as much insight as Gatorade bottle

[Smashmouth]

9 hours ago, thadude said:

Jameis Winston is the best young qb to come out of college since Luck.  We'd be lucky if we draft a qb next year who is 80% the qb he is

 

But again people like you 3 years ago were comparing him to Geno and labeling him a rapist -- same guys who now want me banned for saying Hack sucks

 

Few things here.

1. I never compared him to Geno since hes not a horrible QB. I just said hes nothing special and is way over hyped. So no, not "like" me.

2. I said the QB's are in a pretty sad state if hes the best thing since Luck.....Even in the case of Luck while hes shown flashes of Greatness hes also been wildly inconsistent and also throws a lot of interceptions. 

3. Never thought you should be banned for an opinion so calm down.

4., Bottom line is the QB position is easily the most important position on the field, its not everything, but its a huge part of the offense and if Jamis Winston is what people say he is based on mediocre stats and inconsistency then he needs to step up in year 3 when a QB who should be really good should start putting up great numbers and winning some more games

Winston has the chance to be a really good QB in this league lets see if he takes the next step.

I would also argue there were 2 QB's taken in that same draft (2012) after Luck that are way better than Winston 

Guess your also saying that Winston is a better QB than Derek Carr, Russel Wilson and Dak Prescott ? Hes not even in the same Zip Code

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

is what people say he is based on mediocre stats and inconsistency then he needs to step up in year 3 when a QB who should be really good should start putting up great numbers and winning some more games

 

Mark Sanchez... damned by circumstance!

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Mark Sanchez... damned by circumstance!

If you're saying I backed Mark Sanchez then your correct I did back him but I never claimed he was something he was not. I said I felt he could get better, much better but I didn't dispute actual stats. I felt he had a lot hindering his progress with Drunks and Malcontents and thugs as WR's and a buffoon as an OC and I still stand by the opinion we ruined Mark Sanchez. 

[JustInFudge]

Is being a 30 year old QB really that big of a deterrent for a QB desperate team?   If so, why?  It doesnt make a ton of sense to me.  Sure, you want a young stud you can have for a decade + but hasn't that been the goal since Joe Willy?  And how's that worked out?  Besides, it's a freaking QB.  We're not talking about a position that see's a huge drop off at 30. In fact, it's typically the opposite.  Most QB's hit their stride at around 30 and can play for another 6-8 years without a drop off easily.  Especially a QB like Cousins who doesnt have an injury history or a concussion history.  He's been pretty healthy and it's not like he's a scrambling type of QB that puts himself in harms way.  

I dont think Cousins is special or elite or anything like that but I think it would be very foolish if the Jets had a shot at Cousins and they didnt give the most serious of consideration to try to make it work.  I do think he's the type of QB that gives you efficiency you can win with.  Unless ofcourse, they get the #1 overall pick and have a QB in mind but let's be honest, that's not going to happen because it's the Jets.  They'll win just enough games to put them in no mans land.  

[NoBowles]

11 hours ago, thadude said:

Jameis Winston is the best young qb to come out of college since Luck.  We'd be lucky if we draft a qb next year who is 80% the qb he is

 

But again people like you 3 years ago were comparing him to Geno and labeling him a rapist -- same guys who now want me banned for saying Hack sucks

 

LOL, are you insane with this stuff? Best QB to come out of college since Luck?

 

[Maxman]

What does this mean?  

 

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

LOL, are you insane with this stuff? Best QB to come out of college since Luck?

 

No doubt.  100%.  I dont even seen a rational argument for someone different.

Who do you think was a better prospect than Winston since Luck was came out? 

[varjet]

11 minutes ago, Maxman said:

What does this mean?  

 

 

Bruce Allen, President of the Redskins, referred to Cousins as "Kurt" many times in a press conference.

I think there are 1/3 odds that the Jets pick super high and don't need Cousins, 1/6 odds that Hack turns out great and the Jets decide they don't need to spend or draft a QB super high, and 1/2 (3/6) odds that the Jets pick too low for a top QB and Hack is still questionable, necessitating signing a Cousins or Glennon (assuming he gets cut).