How do you define a Franchise QB?

[flgreen]

When the Fish drafted Tannehill I thought he had a good chance to be a good QB.  IMO he's hit Sanchez territory.  He's shown flashes, but just can't take that next step.  Big year for him.  I live in South Florida, The Fish fans  have high expectations.  Kind of like Jets fans had when Mike T was GM here.

WE'll see

[Lil Woody]

16 minutes ago, flgreen said:

When the Fish drafted Tannehill I thought he had a good chance to be a good QB.  IMO he's hit Sanchez territory.  He's shown flashes, but just can't take that next step.  Big year for him.  I live in South Florida, The Fish fans  have high expectations.  Kind of like Jets fans had when Mike T was GM here.

WE'll see

I believe that it takes a LOT of time, way more than most fans are willing to give them.  Ask any honest Giants fan (oxymoron?) if they were ready to ship Eli out of town in his 4th year. They were calling in in droves on the radio to scream and cry about how they got stuck with the "Frank Stallone" of the Manning family.  You don't ever really know what you have in a QB until a guy has played long enough to be truly judged on a total body of work...somewhere around 50 games feels right for a rule of thumb in today's NFL, but even that's probably too small to really be sure.  But that's the rub...nobody has the luxury of getting 5 years anymore.  Of course the caveat is that the guy has to keep earning the chances year over year to get to that "50th game" milepost.  I'm not saying you should stay with a proven loser for the sake of getting a bigger sample size, but if the guy is maturing, even if it's is a slow learning curve, you have to be willing to keep on giving him more leash to see how far he can go. Of course the downside to that approach is getting stuck with an Alex Smith forever and never quite getting far enough, fast enough.  That's where you gotta trust your coaches to be honest with the GM and not be looking to stay with the "safe" guy just to keep their jobs.  (But let's not get started with a team having a good relationship and reporting structure between its GM and HC.)  Once you have a big enough sample size that you are confident with the guy being a true FQB level prospect, then you can start talking about giving him a mega-contract but it's still super risky at that point.  Like I said in another post, I like Carr's trajectory, and I get why the Raiders made the deal, but it is always going to be a leap of faith.  And he's right around the 50 start mark I believe.

[AFJF]

21 hours ago, BCJet said:

Reading through the thread on Kirk Cousins, its seems like people are confusing a Franchise QB and "Hall of Famer" as the same thing.  Whether Hackenberg works out for us, we draft a QB in the top 5-10 in 2018 or we wind up with someone like Cousins, I think the expectations are off the charts with what people want in a QB.

In the last 10 or so years the NFL has seen more first ballot Hall of Fame QBs then ever before.  Brady, Rogers, Rothlisberger, Peyton, and Brees will all wind up in the HOF at some point.  They are generational passers, that have thrived as the league became more and more focused on the pass, have won SBs, and will go down as all-time greats.  They are also all obviously Franchise QBs.

That being said, there are guys like Eli (could be a HOF, not the point of the thread), Stafford, Flacco, Matt Ryan, Rivers, and even Andy Dalton, Carson Palmer and quite possibly Kirk Cousins, who will likely never get near the HOF, but are franchise QBs.  I didnt mention Luck or Wilson because they are too young to fall definitively into one category or another.

My point is that anyone in the second group, as Eli and Flacco have proven, CAN win a Super Bowl on a good team.  I dont particularly want Cousins on this team in 2018, but can anyone say without a doubt that he is much less likely to win a SB then Joe Flacco or Matt Stafford?   Matt Ryan is playing amazing football, but his team has also endured back to back 4-12 and 6-10 seasons.   What would people think about Flacco if Ozzie Newsome did build a great defense that allowed Flacco to turn solid playoff football (0 turnovers in the entire playoffs that year) into a Championship.  

What Mac, and any GM really, needs to do is build a strong enough team that we can win a SB if Dranold/Allen doesnt become Aaron Rogers/Ben because its hard enough to find a franchise guy, let alone a HOFer.  We havent even had reasonably competent QB play in 20 years - a franchise QB would be enough.

I have to applaud you for this thread.

The number of threads I've seen on here throughout the years in which posters are bashing other NFL QB's who have won super bowls and been to pro bowls based on the "warts" they can find is just ridiculous.

Newsflash....playing QB in the NFL is difficult.  If you can do it well enough to earn multiple contracts with the same team because you give them a legit shot to play in the post-season every year, you're a franchise QB.

Not elite.  Not HOF.  Just a billion light years ahead of what the Jets have had in my 30 years as a fan.

[Raideraholic]

22 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Until they fix the money problem with escalating QB salaries, and install a standard ceiling % of the cap or max contract at the position, there is going to be a lot of Kirk Cousin type problems to go around. 

Look at what Carr just banked.... Now, I love what Carr is doing, and he may very well turn out to be an elite top 5 type QB in the league, but they are taking a huge risk allocating that much cap room to a guy who has only continued down the expected path of becoming a FQB.  It's a shame that he wasn't taken in the 1st because then they'd have that 5th year option and franchise tags to be able to string him along for 7 years to ensure they were making the right decision by paying him at the very top of the market.  Oakland took a huge leap of faith because Carr is maturing in the exact way you would expect a FQB to develop. But the bottom could just as easily drop out on him, and once they have to start paying non rookie contract money to Cooper, Mack and the majority of their defense need to decide on how to afford to keep the same level of OLine play at half the cost of what they are spending there no it's going to be Carr that needs to shoulder the load or they have to take a step backwards on defense and hope Carr is capable of being an Aaron Rodgers type of player.  I'm rooting for Carr, I liked him a lot coming out, and I'm wishing him well despite being a scumbag Raider.  But teams have to basically destroy their cap to keep a young QB happy in this system.  Something has got to give. And if a team is on the fence we will see a lot more Cousins type wait and see approaches. I still think Cousins gets his money from the Skins, because what is their plan B? Not having a QB? Continually taking on veteran JAGs who can't shoulder the load at the position?  We all know how well that approach works.

Another reason I'm pulling for Carr is that the Raiders are a good enemy to have when they are good. It kills me when we lose to them, and it is the best feeling when we beat them. Similar to the Dolphins. You love to hate them, but at least you can respect them.  Unlike a certain division rival of ours....

The Raiders without a doubt had the best 2014 draft , and when you hit on a draft you have to pay that talent .( K  Mack- next year gets his contract , D Carr, and Gabe Jackson) .    It would suck to hit on draft pick, only to watch him leave.( See K Osemele) 

All anyone had to see the Raiders with Carr,( could have challenged the Patriots last year) and without .( was a totally different team - could have asked for even more and the Raiders would have had to pay it- most important player on the roster.( Mack might be the better talent, but isn't as important.

The Raiders are in great shape cap wise( Mckenize very underrated here), and the eventually move to Vegas- (no state income tax ) will help tremendously.( get to pay players less as they still bring home more, than if they were in California.)

The Raiders are easily going to be able to keep their core together, and eventually going to lose some of their good players to free agency. No big deal when the  Raiders FO have done an excellent job with late draft picks, and undrafted Fa's .( replenish the roster with very cheap talent). Look at the roster as they are set up nice longterm almost everywhere.

This Raider team going to be around for awhile, and in couple years some of these contracts will look like a bargain compare to the contract that other players eventually sign for.

Don't feel sorry for the Raiders, as they are in position a lot of teams wish there team was right now.

[thadude]

Definition: anyone not named Christian Hackenberg or Bryce Petty

[BurnleyJet]

9 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

The Raiders without a doubt had the best 2014 draft , and when you hit on a draft you have to pay that talent .( K  Mack- next year gets his contract , D Carr, and Gabe Jackson) .    It would suck to hit on draft pick, only to watch him leave.( See K Osemele) 

All anyone had to see the Raiders with Carr,( could have challenged the Patriots last year) and without .( was a totally different team - could have asked for even more and the Raiders would have had to pay it- most important player on the roster.( Mack might be the better talent, but isn't as important.

The Raiders are in great shape cap wise( Mckenize very underrated here), and the eventually move to Vegas- (no state income tax ) will help tremendously.( get to pay players less as they still bring home more, than if they were in California.)

The Raiders are easily going to be able to keep their core together, and eventually going to lose some of their good players to free agency. No big deal when the  Raiders FO have done an excellent job with late draft picks, and undrafted Fa's .( replenish the roster with very cheap talent). Look at the roster as they are set up nice longterm almost everywhere.

This Raider team going to be around for awhile, and in couple years some of these contracts will look like a bargain compare to the contract that other players eventually sign for.

Don't feel sorry for the Raiders, as they are in position a lot of teams wish there team was right now.

No I really feel sorry for them

[Raideraholic]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

No I really feel sorry for them

As much as you felt sorry for them 2003-2015 .    As proud of tradition the Raiders franchise has , the fact is they have only drafted one Qb( Ken Stabler- was second Qb they took in that same draft) that turnout to be anything .( before they drafted Carr). 

The rest of their successful Qb's have been someone else draft choice( Jim Plunkett , R Gannon) .     

So when you finally hit on the Qb position in the draft, you make sure you pay that player. Take care of the most important position, than figure out best way to field the rest of the team.

Case In point the Broncos have one of the best defenses in the league , but unless one of those Qb's develop , they are probably looking at last place in the Afc West. Just how important the Qb position has become in the NFL.( big difference between game manager, and franchise Qb).

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, Raideraholic said:

As much as you felt sorry for them 2003-2015 .    As proud of tradition the Raiders franchise has , the fact is they have only drafted one Qb( Ken Stabler- was second Qb they took in that same draft) that turnout to be anything .( before they drafted Carr). 

The rest of their successful Qb's have been someone else draft choice( Jim Plunkett , R Gannon) .     

So when you finally hit on the Qb position in the draft, you make sure you pay that player. Take care of the most important position, than figure out best way to field the rest of the team.

Case In point the Broncos have one of the best defenses in the league , but unless one of those Qb's develop , they are probably looking at last place in the Afc West. Just how important the Qb position has become in the NFL.( big difference between game manager, and franchise Qb).

Jets Forum?

Try BlackHole.com or such..

[LIJetsFan]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:02 PM, Lil Woody said:

I believe that it takes a LOT of time, way more than most fans are willing to give them.  Ask any honest Giants fan (oxymoron?) if they were ready to ship Eli out of town in his 4th year. They were calling in in droves on the radio to scream and cry about how they got stuck with the "Frank Stallone" of the Manning family.  You don't ever really know what you have in a QB until a guy has played long enough to be truly judged on a total body of work...somewhere around 50 games feels right for a rule of thumb in today's NFL, but even that's probably too small to really be sure.  But that's the rub...nobody has the luxury of getting 5 years anymore.  Of course the caveat is that the guy has to keep earning the chances year over year to get to that "50th game" milepost.  I'm not saying you should stay with a proven loser for the sake of getting a bigger sample size, but if the guy is maturing, even if it's is a slow learning curve, you have to be willing to keep on giving him more leash to see how far he can go. Of course the downside to that approach is getting stuck with an Alex Smith forever and never quite getting far enough, fast enough.  That's where you gotta trust your coaches to be honest with the GM and not be looking to stay with the "safe" guy just to keep their jobs.  (But let's not get started with a team having a good relationship and reporting structure between its GM and HC.)  Once you have a big enough sample size that you are confident with the guy being a true FQB level prospect, then you can start talking about giving him a mega-contract but it's still super risky at that point.  Like I said in another post, I like Carr's trajectory, and I get why the Raiders made the deal, but it is always going to be a leap of faith.  And he's right around the 50 start mark I believe.

LOL "stuck"  Alex Smith would rank among the top tier of Jets QBs. I'd be happy watching my team if we had a guy under center that didn't lose games for us.  Anything after that is a luxury.    

[Snell41]

It's simple- a franchise QB is a guy that year in and year out puts himself in the top 15 in all positive QB categories. Anyone below that 15th QB are guys that are either developing or constantly finding themselves looking for new teams. There are not 30 guys on the planet that can play at a consistent level in the NFL at QB. The rules changes of late have only really made good QBs better. It has not elevated bad QB's into franchise QB's. The ability to read an NFL D in real time AND deliver an accurate pass with velocity combined may very well be the hardest thing to do in sports.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[flgreen]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:02 PM, Lil Woody said:

I believe that it takes a LOT of time, way more than most fans are willing to give them.  Ask any honest Giants fan (oxymoron?) if they were ready to ship Eli out of town in his 4th year. They were calling in in droves on the radio to scream and cry about how they got stuck with the "Frank Stallone" of the Manning family.  You don't ever really know what you have in a QB until a guy has played long enough to be truly judged on a total body of work...somewhere around 50 games feels right for a rule of thumb in today's NFL, but even that's probably too small to really be sure.  But that's the rub...nobody has the luxury of getting 5 years anymore.  Of course the caveat is that the guy has to keep earning the chances year over year to get to that "50th game" milepost.  I'm not saying you should stay with a proven loser for the sake of getting a bigger sample size, but if the guy is maturing, even if it's is a slow learning curve, you have to be willing to keep on giving him more leash to see how far he can go. Of course the downside to that approach is getting stuck with an Alex Smith forever and never quite getting far enough, fast enough.  That's where you gotta trust your coaches to be honest with the GM and not be looking to stay with the "safe" guy just to keep their jobs.  (But let's not get started with a team having a good relationship and reporting structure between its GM and HC.)  Once you have a big enough sample size that you are confident with the guy being a true FQB level prospect, then you can start talking about giving him a mega-contract but it's still super risky at that point.  Like I said in another post, I like Carr's trajectory, and I get why the Raiders made the deal, but it is always going to be a leap of faith.  And he's right around the 50 start mark I believe.

I agree

It's what makes the Hack situation so interesting.  Not being a 1st round pick they really only have 3 years left to decide if he is going to be worth giving a mega 2nd contract to.  In all honesty this might be his only real chance.  If he doesn't show dramatic  marked improvement this year, and the Jets finish at the bottom of the league, they will take a QB very early.  Hack will be an afterthought.  Same applies to Petty.  That might not be very fair, but GM's jobs hang on the performance, and rapid development of QB's in today's NFL.

Even though this most likely won't be a competitive season for the Jets, it's going to one of the most important seasons in a very long time as far as the Jets Prolonged future is concerned.   

[ScarletKnight89]

A top performer at his position consistently year in and year out.

[#27TheDominator]

On 7/15/2017 at 6:36 PM, Lupz27 said:

Exactly, even thou he is getting paid more then just about every franchise QB this season does not mean he is a franchise QB, if Washington thought he was he would have already inked a 5 for $125 mill contract minimum back before FA period started so the Skins could have more $$$$ freed up in cap space to BUILD around who they think is a franchise QB, they have not done this, while that doesn't mean they are right in their opinion, I just happen to agree with them, I personally would have shipped him off to SF for the 2nd pick in the draft plus some if they were willing, traded down with whoever wanted Trubisky, and drafted Mahomes, but that's me, and I play Monday morning QB on a Jets message board so WTF do I know lol.

I think you are all underestimating how much Washington likes Cousins.  They already offered him 5 years at north of $100M.  They will have paid him around $44M for 2016-2017.  His price isn't going down.  I know everybody is worried about them losing Desean Jackson, but they still have Crowder, Pryor and Jordan Reed.  If Reed stays healthy I think he puts up numbers again.

On 7/15/2017 at 8:32 PM, dbatesman said:

Jerome ******* Lane!  Hell yeah!

[ChuckkieB]

"How do you define a franchise QB?"

Just about anyone not named Geno Smith, Fitzpatrick, or McCown.

 

[shawn306]

A Franchise Qb to me is a QB that can get the crap beat out of him for 55 minutes on a cold December/January day, and with everything on the line in those last 5 minutes gets his teammates to believe in him as he marches them down the field for a game winner.

[UntouchableCrew]

A "franchise QB" is a QB is good enough that you can confidently build your franchise around them. I thought this was common knowledge.

[Savage69]

On 7/15/2017 at 4:07 PM, flgreen said:

A QB that when the opposing coaching staff meets in their game plan meeting the week before the game,The first question that comes to the table is, "How are we going to stop the QB from beating us?" 

Actually when the Jets staff meets the conversation is how can we stop our QB from beating us..

[Dunnie]

Definition: anyone not named Christian Hackenberg or Bryce Petty

That's like saying living on Mars is a bad idea ... how do you know ?????


... oh wait

I have slim hope for Hack.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[slats]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:21 AM, flgreen said:

I agree

It's what makes the Hack situation so interesting.  Not being a 1st round pick they really only have 3 years left to decide if he is going to be worth giving a mega 2nd contract to.  In all honesty this might be his only real chance.  If he doesn't show dramatic  marked improvement this year, and the Jets finish at the bottom of the league, they will take a QB very early.  Hack will be an afterthought.  Same applies to Petty.  That might not be very fair, but GM's jobs hang on the performance, and rapid development of QB's in today's NFL.

Even though this most likely won't be a competitive season for the Jets, it's going to one of the most important seasons in a very long time as far as the Jets Prolonged future is concerned.   

4

It will be if they do it right. If they trot Josh McCown out there for an extended period under the "best chance to win" banner, it'll be another waste. 

I will say this: their first year, they had the right idea. They were going to give Geno every chance to prove himself or prove he couldn't do it. It was the right play for the future of the franchise. Fitzpatrick's amazingly lucky 2015 turned the 2016 season into a total loss. If they get back on track, they'll name McCown #2 early in camp and roll with Hackenberg. Then if Hack gets hurt, McCown mops up but the next week they prepare Petty to start. McCown playing does nothing for the future of this franchise, and the future is what this season has to be about. They don't have a present. 

[whodeawhodat]

Franchise QB is someone who elevates the play of his teammates.  

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

Franchise QB is someone who elevates the play of his teammates.  

For about 5-10 years.

[whodeawhodat]

7 minutes ago, peebag said:

For about 5-10 years.

yeah, i should have added consistently over time.  Flash in the pan is not included.

 

Also, for everyone downplaying how good cousins is, he has had the leverage in contract talks.  He is guaranteed ~$48M over the next 2 years if he has his typical year this year. Even if he gets hurt and IRed, at his position he would command a big contract next year. So the skins needed to blow him away with an offer that included length and guaranteed money and they obviously did not do that.  It is cousins world pretty much.

[jamesr]

On 18/07/2017 at 8:00 PM, UntouchableCrew said:

A "franchise QB" is a QB is good enough that you can confidently build your franchise around them. I thought this was common knowledge.

I'd go with this as a simple, but effective, definition. No need to build specifics into it like Pro Bowls, HOF etc.

A guy who you don't need to worry about year after year, other than the two unmovable things - age and injury.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

On 7/15/2017 at 4:20 PM, T0mShane said:

A quarterback who, when you fix his footwork, can finish in the top half of the Big 10.

Yea, even brady was second string in that league

 

For the franchise, I like the simple checklist (all points mentioned in this thread); 

1. Full time starting QB for 5+ years 
2. Respected in locker room, ideally as a leader
3. Demonstrated ability (examples) of winning important games for team  

Based on these, Chad and Mark were closer than they get credit for...

[FTL Jet Fan]

On 7/15/2017 at 8:11 PM, Lil Woody said:

Until they fix the money problem with escalating QB salaries, and install a standard ceiling % of the cap or max contract at the position, there is going to be a lot of Kirk Cousin type problems to go around. 

Look at what Carr just banked.... Now, I love what Carr is doing, and he may very well turn out to be an elite top 5 type QB in the league, but they are taking a huge risk allocating that much cap room to a guy who has only continued down the expected path of becoming a FQB.  It's a shame that he wasn't taken in the 1st because then they'd have that 5th year option and franchise tags to be able to string him along for 7 years to ensure they were making the right decision by paying him at the very top of the market.  Oakland took a huge leap of faith because Carr is maturing in the exact way you would expect a FQB to develop. But the bottom could just as easily drop out on him, and once they have to start paying non rookie contract money to Cooper, Mack and the majority of their defense need to decide on how to afford to keep the same level of OLine play at half the cost of what they are spending there no it's going to be Carr that needs to shoulder the load or they have to take a step backwards on defense and hope Carr is capable of being an Aaron Rodgers type of player.  I'm rooting for Carr, I liked him a lot coming out, and I'm wishing him well despite being a scumbag Raider.  But teams have to basically destroy their cap to keep a young QB happy in this system.  Something has got to give. And if a team is on the fence we will see a lot more Cousins type wait and see approaches. I still think Cousins gets his money from the Skins, because what is their plan B? Not having a QB? Continually taking on veteran JAGs who can't shoulder the load at the position?  We all know how well that approach works.

Another reason I'm pulling for Carr is that the Raiders are a good enemy to have when they are good. It kills me when we lose to them, and it is the best feeling when we beat them. Similar to the Dolphins. You love to hate them, but at least you can respect them.  Unlike a certain division rival of ours....

Agree with your post except the respect for the Dolphins. 

[Lil Woody]

59 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Agree with your post except the respect for the Dolphins. 

Ha. A fair point. But the bar has become so low now. While the Dolphins are far from being "respectable", they have not disrespected the game as much as the Pats have.  Soggy fields aside. It's a better NFL when the Jets and Dolphins are operating well and they are maintaining their traditional rivalry.

[Dcat]

On 7/19/2017 at 11:13 AM, slats said:

It will be if they do it right. If they trot Josh McCown out there for an extended period under the "best chance to win" banner, it'll be another waste. 

I will say this: their first year, they had the right idea. They were going to give Geno every chance to prove himself or prove he couldn't do it. It was the right play for the future of the franchise. Fitzpatrick's amazingly lucky 2015 turned the 2016 season into a total loss. If they get back on track, they'll name McCown #2 early in camp and roll with Hackenberg. Then if Hack gets hurt, McCown mops up but the next week they prepare Petty to start. McCown playing does nothing for the future of this franchise, and the future is what this season has to be about. They don't have a present. 

But starting QB is Bowles' call to make, and his interests are short term.  One in which 5 or 6 wins is to be accomplished at all costs. I expect Bowels to start McCown and play him until the team is mathematically eliminated or he gets hurt.  Even though everything yo say is 100% correct, The only way Bowles does what you want him to do is if Hack lights it up in pre season or Bowles' return in 2018 is assured and perhaps an extension with it. 

[LIJetsFan]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

But starting QB is Bowles' call to make, and his interests are short term.  One in which 5 or 6 wins is to be accomplished at all costs. I expect Bowels to start McCown and play him until the team is mathematically eliminated or he gets hurt.  Even though everything yo say is 100% correct, The only way Bowles does what you want him to do is if Hack lights it up in pre season or Bowles' return in 2018 is assured and perhaps an extension with it. 

This is depressing,

[jamesr]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

But starting QB is Bowles' call to make, and his interests are short term.  One in which 5 or 6 wins is to be accomplished at all costs. I expect Bowels to start McCown and play him until the team is mathematically eliminated or he gets hurt.  Even though everything yo say is 100% correct, The only way Bowles does what you want him to do is if Hack lights it up in pre season or Bowles' return in 2018 is assured and perhaps an extension with it. 

However - Bowles reports to Woody, and it's up to Woody to set Bowles' aims for the year, against which he will either keep him, fire him, or extend him.

If Woody says that winning trumps everything, then it's in Bowles' interest to play the "best chance to win" QB.

If Woody says he wants to fully assess all the young guys, winning be damned, then playing McCown to churn out as many wins as possible is counter to that objective.

Of course, Bowles could "go rogue" and do his own thing anyway ... which would likely precipitate his firing, but he could walk away with his pride / integrity intact, which might matter more to him.

[FTL Jet Fan]

22 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Ha. A fair point. But the bar has become so low now. While the Dolphins are far from being "respectable", they have not disrespected the game as much as the Pats have.  Soggy fields aside. It's a better NFL when the Jets and Dolphins are operating well and they are maintaining their traditional rivalry.

Can't argue with you about the Pats, but you are right it is much better when Jets and Fins are competitive. I am just biased as my strong dislike for the Fins clouds my vision at times. The Dolphins at one point were heading down the same path we are now and have improved their roster and coaching staff. It has only been one year of success for the Fins so we shall see how they do this year. I do like what I saw from Gase in his first year. He is able to pull off the players coach along with being a disciplinarian.

[slats]

9 hours ago, Dcat said:

But starting QB is Bowles' call to make, and his interests are short term.  One in which 5 or 6 wins is to be accomplished at all costs. I expect Bowels to start McCown and play him until the team is mathematically eliminated or he gets hurt.  Even though everything yo say is 100% correct, The only way Bowles does what you want him to do is if Hack lights it up in pre season or Bowles' return in 2018 is assured and perhaps an extension with it. 

Maccagnan behaved this offseason like a guy who's been given some sort of assurance. If I'm him, I tell Bowles I have his back if he starts Hackenberg all year. That if Hack sucks, that gives him a little cover. But if somehow Hack looks like he could be the real deal, the two of them are golden - at least for the time being.  

[BigO]

On 7/15/2017 at 5:33 PM, The Crusher said:

QB who don't play for the Jets?

Franchise QB: A guy who makes a lot more money than any of you. 

[Integrity28]

Strapping good looks, a chip on his shoulder, intangibles, a model wife/beard, willingness to cheat, a diet without vegetables related to the nightshade, and willingness to cheat more.

[ljr]

26 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Strapping good looks, a chip on his shoulder, intangibles, a model wife/beard, willingness to cheat, a diet without vegetables related to the nightshade, and willingness to cheat more.

 

Wait ... The model's clam is bearded ?

[Integrity28]

8 hours ago, ljr said:

 

Wait ... The model's clam is bearded ?

lol, allegedly.