Costello: The Job is McCown's

[C Mart]

10 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I don't doubt their ability to gauge who gives them the best play. I doubt Bowles' ability to act in the teams interest over his own and take the more difficult path of developing a young QB. 

I get that Bowles is almost certainly getting fired and he's not interested in developing a young QB for the next guy.  But f*(k him. That's why you need a GM to keep him in check and force the issue if needed.

Getting fired? Based on what? At some point, sure. Doubt it will be after this season  

He's going on 3 yrs w/Petty and 2 w/Hack. Seems he's trying to develop QBs. You may not agree with how...

None of us know what Mccagnan, Bowles and Woody have talked about regarding the plan, expectations for 2017 other than what Woody said a few months ago. 

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I don't doubt their ability to gauge who gives them the best play. I doubt Bowles' ability to act in the teams interest over his own and take the more difficult path of developing a young QB. 

I get that Bowles is almost certainly getting fired and he's not interested in developing a young QB for the next guy.  But f*(k him. That's why you need a GM to keep him in check and force the issue if needed.

Tie goes to Hack.  Otherwise, he has to earn it.  If McCown outlays him in the PS games, Hack sits.

It's really very simple.

Fans and sports radio guys can talk about about developing young guys, the the real world of the NFL you have to play the best players and try to win.

The owner can tank, like Irsay did with Manning getting hurt and bringing in Kerry Collins who had been retired for 2 years with Luck coming out

The coaches have to try to win.

You can talk about "the good of the team" after being mathematically eliminated, which should be around Halloween, lol

Hack has to earn the week 1 start nod with clearly superior play.

 

 

[Lil Woody]

6 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Honestly, do you believe that Todd Bowles sits down with his offensive coordinator, and QB coach who tells him to start Hackenberg or Petty and he instead starts Josh McCown  ? 

No. I'd expect that all of his coaches would say the same thing. That McCown gives you the best chance to win right now.

I'd then expect the GM to step in and say, that's true, but the goal this season is developing QBs and not winning and if you try to start him I will cut him.

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

No. I'd expect that all of his coaches would say the same thing. That McCown gives you the best chance to win right now.

I'd then expect the GM to step in and say, that's true, but the goal this season is developing QBs and not winning and if you try to start him I will cut him.

The owner,GM and head coach all need to be on the same page I don't think that is the situation here. 

[Lil Woody]

6 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Getting fired? Based on what? At some point, sure. Doubt it will be after this season  

He's going on 3 yrs w/Petty and 2 w/Hack. Seems he's trying to develop QBs. You may not agree with how...

None of us know what Mccagnan, Bowles and Woody have talked about regarding the plan, expectations for 2017 other than what Woody said a few months ago. 

Ineptitude.

Horrible game plans.

Inability to adjust to opponents.

Horrible clock management.

The fact that he has regressed in his 2nd year after a bad 1st year.

Idiotic approach to player management like annointing a QB who isn't on the team his starter.

Oh and the fact that his own players quit on him.

How can anyone who watched his first 2 seasons come away from that with any shred of positivity regarding his ability to coach a team?

[Tinstar]

4 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

No. I'd expect that all of his coaches would say the same thing. That McCown gives you the best chance to win right now.

I'd then expect the GM to step in and say, that's true, but the goal this season is developing QBs and not winning and if you try to start him I will cut him.

Are u for real ?

[Lil Woody]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

The owner,GM and head coach all need to be on the same page I don't think that is the situation here. 

Bingo. And that is why this team is a second rate one.

[Lil Woody]

Just now, Tinstar said:

Are u for real ?

No. I am a part of the skynet operating system.

Is this the part where you try to insult me for not thinking like you?

BTW. GMs do this sort of thing all the time as they have a lot of say over coaches regarding the use of players, it is probably THE biggest aspect of the job that causes the frictions in most HC/GM relationships.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Lil Woody said:

No. I am a part of the skynet operating system.

Is this the part where you try to insult me for not thinking like you?

BTW. GMs do this sort of thing all the time as they have a lot of say over coaches regarding the use of players, it is probably THE biggest aspect of the job that causes the frictions in most HC/GM relationships.

Not my style beloved . I just wanted to know if I was talking to someone who had been drinking  . Since you're sober and appear to be serious, I guess we have nothing further to discuss .

[MDL_JET]

See. Just takes time...

After speaking with Broncos personnel, Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports Paxton Lynch is being outplayed by Trevor Siemian at training camp.

Citing observers of the Broncos' practice tape, Robinson reports "Lynch has lost every single practice session to Siemian." Siemian remains a capped-ceiling commodity, but Lynch simply hasn't taken the step forward the Broncos had hoped. Robinson does acknowledge the competition remains "unsettled," and there's a chance things click for Lynch in preseason games. Still, at this point in time Siemian is the favorite to start in Week 1.

Source: Yahoo Sports 

Aug 6 - 7:43 PM

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

Where was this argument last year?  As I recall you were apoplectic at the thought of starting anyone other than a loser journeyman QB who did nothing for the team long term and took snaps away from younger players.

The reason you start McCown is the same reason you should have started Geno last year.  The alternatives are worse.

Geno is a Giant.  If you want to refight old battles, or somehow try to prove you weren't 100% wrong about Geno, do it with someone else.  You were wrong, and he's gone, right?  Right.

Starting McClown does nothing good for this team, and does a number of things that are bad, if both players are generally equal (as they have been per reports so far).

The only reason I've heard (repeatedly) for playing McCown is "veterans will be mad".  

Yeah, great reason to not play your 2nd year high draft pick QB in what clearly is his make or break year here in NY.

But of course, look who I'm talking to, you literally ARE the reason there is a "no weapons, unfair, start him in 2023!" meme.  If it were up to you, Geno would be starting here now, right?  Of course. 

[Lil Woody]

5 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Not my style beloved . I just wanted to know if I was talking to someone who had been drinking  . Since you're sober and appear to be serious, I guess we have nothing further to discuss .

I can defintely respect that. And fwiw, sorry I lumped you in with the attack method crowd. It's rampant here. I assumed the worst and made myself the ass.

[dbatesman]

25 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

No. I'd expect that all of his coaches would say the same thing. That McCown gives you the best chance to win right now.

I'd then expect the GM to step in and say, that's true, but the goal this season is developing QBs and not winning and if you try to start him I will cut him.

Good teams do this all the time

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

So you draft by position not by talent.  You would take a mid round QB at 6 because QB is important.

Not how any GM runs a draft.  How fans who love to second guess talk though.  

Point remains this franchise overvalues one thing, defense, over something that matters much than the thing they ignore, offense. This whole "dominant defense" thing goes against the way NFL team win games in 2017. And as with Pryor and these guys you tell me a safety is a big hitter, I think 15 yard penalty. And without a pass rush good coverage matter less and less; if you give a decent QB time when the play breaks down a receiver is going to get open. I do not trust the talent evaluation at all when year after year spare Williams none of these guys are much better than JAGs. Like Lil'Lee; he was going to cover TEs and backs, right? DIdn't happen, but he does get blown up regularly on running plays. Could not have found a decent offensive player instead? The Jets' offense will be lucky to score 10 PPG. And with that kind of suck, a 3 and out turnover festival, picking 2 safeties on the top of your draft is freakn' insane. 

[C Mart]

28 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The owner,GM and head coach all need to be on the same page I don't think that is the situation here. 

Link? 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Link? 

54 years as a diehard fan and former season ticket holder...www.alwayshopingthisisouryear.com

[tuffhand]

32 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Ineptitude.

Horrible game plans.

Inability to adjust to opponents.

Horrible clock management.

The fact that he has regressed in his 2nd year after a bad 1st year.

Idiotic approach to player management like annointing a QB who isn't on the team his starter.

Oh and the fact that his own players quit on him.

How can anyone who watched his first 2 seasons come away from that with any shred of positivity regarding his ability to coach a team?

You forgot lost the locker room.

[C Mart]

4 minutes ago, tuffhand said:

You forgot lost the locker room.

Where'd it go? 

[Lil Woody]

7 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Where'd it go? 

[Beerfish]

I love the comments about not being handed the job and having to earn it.  Thus why has a 37 year old jag QB who is 2-20 in his last 22 games and is a worse QB than Fitzpatrick being handed the job over the two incumbents instead of having to earn  it?

From day one of mini camp all up until now he has had more reps and 1st team reps than any other Qb every ....single.....practice.  Of course the day he was signed I predicted this.

Now if this is the way the Jets want to go then fine, I don;t like it but you guys are the bosses but please do not blatantly and repeatedly lie to me face as if i am a 10 year old that won't notice.  Bowles keeps up with the laughable mantra that they will all get the same reps, will be a 3 way battle and all will be on an even footing.  He's a fing liar to go along with being a sh*tty  coach.

What one can glean from this team right now, they have totally and utterly given up on petty and he is as likely to be cut at the end of camp as anything.  They think that Hack  just stinks but are giving him a few more reps because they have to save face on the pick.

Our best Qb is a guy who should be a 3rd string for 90% of the teams in this league.

I also think Bowles precious defense that has been bullying the offense all camp will be in for a real surprise when they actually  play another team in this league.

 

[thadude]

52 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Ineptitude.

Horrible game plans.

Inability to adjust to opponents.

Horrible clock management.

The fact that he has regressed in his 2nd year after a bad 1st year.

Idiotic approach to player management like annointing a QB who isn't on the team his starter.

Oh and the fact that his own players quit on him.

How can anyone who watched his first 2 seasons come away from that with any shred of positivity regarding his ability to coach a team?

Bowles = Kotite

[thadude]

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Geno is a Giant.  If you want to refight old battles, or somehow try to prove you weren't 100% wrong about Geno, do it with someone else.  You were wrong, and he's gone, right?  Right.

Starting McClown does nothing good for this team, and does a number of things that are bad, if both players are generally equal (as they have been per reports so far).

The only reason I've heard (repeatedly) for playing McCown is "veterans will be mad".  

Yeah, great reason to not play your 2nd year high draft pick QB in what clearly is his make or break year here in NY.

But of course, look who I'm talking to, you literally ARE the reason there is a "no weapons, unfair, start him in 2023!" meme.  If it were up to you, Geno would be starting here now, right?  Of course. 

You actually  think there was a strategy for this offseason?

[Dcat]

8 hours ago, C Mart said:

LOL. I didn't know that if you start week 1 you're contractually obligated to start that player all 16 games. I guess I missed that in the new CBA. 

LOL. Carry on. 

I always figured Bowles would start McCown at least for the first 3 weeks.  If the team looks like sh*t, including McCown, i'm wondering what the over/under is on what week Hack makes an appearance. I say week 5 in Cleveland. 

[greenwave81]

49 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I love the comments about not being handed the job and having to earn it.  Thus why has a 37 year old jag QB who is 2-20 in his last 22 games and is a worse QB than Fitzpatrick being handed the job over the two incumbents instead of having to earn  it?

From day one of mini camp all up until now he has had more reps and 1st team reps than any other Qb every ....single.....practice.  Of course the day he was signed I predicted this.

Now if this is the way the Jets want to go then fine, I don;t like it but you guys are the bosses but please do not blatantly and repeatedly lie to me face as if i am a 10 year old that won't notice.  Bowles keeps up with the laughable mantra that they will all get the same reps, will be a 3 way battle and all will be on an even footing.  He's a fing liar to go along with being a sh*tty  coach.

What one can glean from this team right now, they have totally and utterly given up on petty and he is as likely to be cut at the end of camp as anything.  They think that Hack  just stinks but are giving him a few more reps because they have to save face on the pick.

Our best Qb is a guy who should be a 3rd string for 90% of the teams in this league.

I also think Bowles precious defense that has been bullying the offense all camp will be in for a real surprise when they actually  play another team in this league.

 

Can I get an Amen?

[greenwave81]

40 minutes ago, thadude said:

You actually  think there was a strategy for this offseason?

Yeah...the strategy apparently was to sign a 38 yo has been borderline NFL QB and start him while cutting every other veteran player over 30 yo who didn't play QB.

And then have some fans justifying why Bowles is giving McCown a lion's share of the reps in PS.

Sounds good to me.

[RSJ]

Hard to argue that this isn't just another BS competition by Bowles.


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[PS17]

Bowles should have been fired after the Pittsburgh game.

[JohnnyLV]

6 hours ago, Pac said:

That's mostly right but I still don't think you can make a definitive assessment on a 22 yr old QB who is a couple months into learning a foreign system.

It's really simple...  You start McCown until you've been eliminated from post season contention OR he has a couple horrific games in a row then you hand it to Hack.  It was obvious right they announced the McCown signing.

Holy fuucknuts!! Do Jets fans never realize the complete idiocy of playing the veteran retread in the scenario you suggested? It literally makes no sense whatsoever, and all ANYONE needs to do is look at the complete trainwreck of the last 2 seasons and know that you should never ever ever ever f-ing ever go down this path again. Learn from the goddammn mistakes of the past and do not repeat them. Starting McClown is literally the dumbest thing this organization could do right now. But rejoice, Bowles is a completely spineless loser that will play to keep his job not to make the Jets better long term. Sheer madness. 

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Oh come on man, you know what he's saying. Don't be that guy on the internet. Positional relevance is an important thing to consider. Positions that are more important get more value when creating the boards, as they should.

Its exactly what anyone who is suggesting we take  a QB at 6 who the organization didnt think was worth a 6 or anywhere near the player that we took at 6.  Even with positional value taken into account, sometimes the QB isnt the player at that spot.  People had guys like Watson and Mahomes going in the 2nd, if the Jets agreed then 6 would have been a stupid spot to draft them

[ZachEY]

11 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

I don't doubt their ability to gauge who gives them the best play. I doubt Bowles' ability to act in the teams interest over his own and take the more difficult path of developing a young QB. 

I get that Bowles is almost certainly getting fired and he's not interested in developing a young QB for the next guy.  But f*(k him. That's why you need a GM to keep him in check and force the issue if needed.

See, I don't really understand this line of thinking at all.  Josh McCown has 11 wins in 11 seasons.  What exactly is Josh McCown going to do that meaningfully improves the short term interest in the team, saving Todd Bowles job.  Is the argument that McCown gives us a shot at a wildcard?  Is the argument that McCown may get us 6 wins and that's seen as an improvement?  Is your argument that Bowles is just being spiteful, as you allude to?  Because, there are only two ways I could see Todd Bowles keeping his job.  The first is by a young QB showing some promise this season.  My belief/fear is that Hack and Petty aren't playing because they can't even do that.  The second, if leadership was in agreement that this year is a total wash, and he's given a pass, with the opportunity to be a part of the "rebuild."  I don't see a 3rd scenario where we win "a few extra games" with Josh McCown as saving Bowles.  So, the only logical conclusion that follows is that if Hack/Petty aren't playing, it's because they're just that terrible.

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Bugg said:

Point remains this franchise overvalues one thing, defense, over something that matters much than the thing they ignore, offense. This whole "dominant defense" thing goes against the way NFL team win games in 2017. And as with Pryor and these guys you tell me a safety is a big hitter, I think 15 yard penalty. And without a pass rush good coverage matter less and less; if you give a decent QB time when the play breaks down a receiver is going to get open. I do not trust the talent evaluation at all when year after year spare Williams none of these guys are much better than JAGs. Like Lil'Lee; he was going to cover TEs and backs, right? DIdn't happen, but he does get blown up regularly on running plays. Could not have found a decent offensive player instead? The Jets' offense will be lucky to score 10 PPG. And with that kind of suck, a 3 and out turnover festival, picking 2 safeties on the top of your draft is freakn' insane. 

Point is we dont know that.  Just because the better 1st round pick was a defensive player.  Two of the three seasons this FO drafted we had two players who were in the best of the draft conversation fall into their laps.  Who knows that they wouldnt have gone offense if Williams or Adams were off the board.

If you think Lee, especially after one season and in an unnatural position is a Jag and use that term with Williams and Adams thats on you, no one would ever agree.  Not anyones fault that you think safety and think 15 yard penalty, thats crazy.  You dont want to play a S?  Want him to not hit?  OK.  Think that the only good a S brings is the hard hit?  And I wont even go anywhere near that Lee is too short to cover the TE, thats fan nonsense.  Height has nothing to do with it.  

[ZachEY]

11 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

Oh come on man, you know what he's saying.

Are you sure?

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, RSJ said:

Hard to argue that this isn't just another BS competition by Bowles.


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Same question.  What is the upside for Bowles in starting 11 wins in 11 seasons Josh McCown?

[Jet Nut]

11 hours ago, Lil Woody said:

No. I'd expect that all of his coaches would say the same thing. That McCown gives you the best chance to win right now.

I'd then expect the GM to step in and say, that's true, but the goal this season is developing QBs and not winning and if you try to start him I will cut him.

You obviously have no idea how a football org is run.  

[nycdan]

7 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Holy fuucknuts!! Do Jets fans never realize the complete idiocy of playing the veteran retread in the scenario you suggested? It literally makes no sense whatsoever, and all ANYONE needs to do is look at the complete trainwreck of the last 2 seasons and know that you should never ever ever ever f-ing ever go down this path again. Learn from the goddammn mistakes of the past and do not repeat them. Starting McClown is literally the dumbest thing this organization could do right now. But rejoice, Bowles is a completely spineless loser that will play to keep his job not to make the Jets better long term. Sheer madness. 

Worse...extend this logic.  At a time when every meaningful rookie QB is either starting or at least getting significant reps with the 1s, we stand alone.  So what if we manage to draft Darnold or Rosen next year and Bowles is the HC.  Are we going to trot McCown, or another similar retread veteran out there despite Bowles' assurances that its an 'open competition'?  

 

Will all the supporters of 'Hack needs more time' feel the same way when Rosen, Allen, Jackson and Rudolph are all looking like starters, but Darnold 'needs more time'? 

 

Because that's the direction we're going in.