Every Christian Hackenberg pass from Preseason Week 1

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Tell us which WR got any deep separation that he could have hit with a pass.  I didn't see anyone capable of getting free for a reception 

I'd buy this argument a little more if he scanned the field and nobody was open -- it felt to me (and hey, I'm just a fan) like he was throwing to his number 1 option almost every throw.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Tell us which WR got any deep separation that he could have hit with a pass.  I didn't see anyone capable of getting free for a reception.  

There's only so much a QB can do, has to take what he's given.

lol

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Spectacular week, actually. A week of spectacles. I'm built of magic.

I was thinking of posting that, didn't want to give you a big head. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'd buy this argument a little more if he scanned the field and nobody was open -- it felt to me (and hey, I'm just a fan) like he was throwing to his number 1 option almost every throw.

They seemed plenty open for McCown

[Tinstar]

13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It's not that he was bad by any stretch... But the five yard swing pass on 3rd and 12 isn't very inspiring. I'd like to see what the offense looks like when he pushes it down the field a bit more.

So you want to see the brie before the wedding ?  Maybe you should ask Morton to see his playbook .

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Tinstar said:

So you want to see the brie before the wedding ?  Maybe you should ask Morton to see his playbook .

I mean I don't think making a genuine attempt to convert on 3rd down means you have to show your hand.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'd buy this argument a little more if he scanned the field and nobody was open -- it felt to me (and hey, I'm just a fan) like he was throwing to his number 1 option almost every throw.

I'm sure that was part of it, especially when guys never got free.  First time out for someone with so little experience, I don't have a problem with last night. 

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They seemed plenty open for McCown

You do realize that McCowan played with Anderson a lot more than Hack did, right?  The only WR who can run free of a DB

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean I don't think making a genuine attempt to convert on 3rd down means you have to show your hand.

Did it really matter that much who won that game ?  What's important isn't winning a preseason game but rebuilding a QB who has every tool of a Franchise QB in his arsenal but has been beaten to a pulp by college football defenders and then taken apart by the media . Saturday was a small step in the right direction .

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'd buy this argument a little more if he scanned the field and nobody was open -- it felt to me (and hey, I'm just a fan) like he was throwing to his number 1 option almost every throw.

Well, the coach said that the Titans took away some of his deeper options, and that is why he moved off those. But hey, what would the coach know?

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You do realize that McCowan played with Anderson a lot more than Hack did, right?  The only WR who can run free of a DB

How many deep passes did Josh McCown throw and complete  ? 

[SwanseaJack]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

So you want to see the brie before the wedding ?  Maybe you should ask Morton to see his playbook .

He could show a few in preseason couldn't he? If he's any good there'll be stiltons of plays to surprise teams with once the season starts 

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Tinstar said:

Did it really matter that much who won that game ?  What's important isn't winning a preseason game but rebuilding a QB who has every tool of a Franchise QB in his arsenal but has been beaten to a pulp by college football defenders and then taken apart by the media . Saturday was a small step in the right direction .

You're making my argument for me. The fact that winning the game isn't that important is exactly why you play to win and throw for 15 on 3rd and 12. Playing conservative and relying on your defense makes sense when the games count. In preseason you should go for it. There's nothing to lose. How does throwing a 6 yard swing pass on 3rd and 12 (I know I'm harping on this one play, but it represents the mindset I'm talking about) help Hackenberg get better?

I'm totally not trying to be negative or crap on the kid. I was encouraged. I'm just a little concerned with HOW conservative they were in certain situations.

 

 

 

[Tinstar]

Just now, SwanseaJack said:

He could show a few in preseason couldn't he? If he's any good there'll be stiltons of plays to surprise teams with once the season starts 

Or he could continue what appears to be working and develop us a QB .

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Well, the coach said that the Titans took away some of his deeper options, and that is why he moved off those. But hey, what would the coach know?

I saw those comments. But considering I think it's almost likely the coaching staff are the ones telling him to make the short, conservative throws I don't put much stock in them... And yeah, obviously the defense is going to try to stop the deep throw on 3rd and 12. That's what they're gonna do when the games count too. It's not a good excuse to throw a pass that has a 10% chance of converting.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

How many deep passes did Josh McCown throw and complete  ? 

Well he was only in for one series but he completed a 50 yard bomb... Did you watch the game?

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're making my argument for me. The fact that winning the game isn't that important is exactly why you play to win and throw for 15 on 3rd and 12. Playing conservative and relying on your defense makes sense when the games count. In preseason you should go for it. There's nothing to lose. How does throwing a 6 yard swing pass on 3rd and 12 (I know I'm harping on this one play, but it represents the mindset I'm talking about) help Hackenberg get better?

I'm totally not trying to be negative or crap on the kid. I was encouraged. I'm just a little concerned with HOW conservative they were in certain situations.

 

 

 

I would agree with you if we were talking about a young veteran QB, but not a kid like Hack who just weeks ago many were saying didn't belong in the NFL .   There's no need to rush this Kid's development because this fan base is desperate  .

 

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Or he could continue what appears to be working and develop us a QB .

They scored 0 points after the starter game out. Is that "working?"

I'm encouraged by his progress but some of you are far too rosy here. They didn't score any points, how happy can you be?

[SwanseaJack]

3 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Or he could continue what appears to be working and develop us a QB .

Puns nacho thing?

[Tinstar]

Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

Well he was only in for one series but he completed a 50 yard bomb... Did you watch the game?

Yea, he completed a perfect pass to the outside of the receiver and away from the safety . I still saw a comment on here that said the play was more about Anderson's ability to adjust to the ball than McCown's throw . 

Why do you think that was said ? 

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

How many deep passes did Josh McCown throw and complete  ? 

One

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

Yea, he completed a perfect pass to the outside of the receiver and away from the safety . I still saw a comment on here that said the play was more about Anderson's ability to adjust to the ball than McCown's throw . 

Why do you think that was said ? 

I don't know. I agree it was a nice throw. I'm guessing because people want to give credit to our good young homegrown guy instead of the old crappy journeyman QB they know has no future here. It's a sexier narrative.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I saw those comments. But considering I think it's almost likely the coaching staff are the ones telling him to make the short, conservative throws I don't put much stock in them... And yeah, obviously the defense is going to try to stop the deep throw on 3rd and 12. That's what they're gonna do when the games count too. It's not a good excuse to throw a pass that has a 10% chance of converting.

Apparently you have seen the "All 22" film that shows different options that Hack had on his passes. Please post the as I would like to see them.

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

They scored 0 points after the starter game out. Is that "working?"

I'm encouraged by his progress but some of you are far too rosy here. They didn't score any points, how happy can you be?

What were your feelings about Hackenberg before he threw the ball on Saturday, and be honest ?  I have spent the entire off season being told that this kid doesn't belong in the NFL, but today just about  every Jet fan is optimistic .  

Me, I think I will wait until after the last preseason game to be optimistic and I wanted to spend a late 1st round pick on this kid .

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Apparently you have seen the "All 22" film that shows different options that Hack had on his passes. Please post the as I would like to see them.

Obviously I'm just a fan and my opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's. But to me he didn't even hold the ball long enough to scan the field in many of these situations. It seemed like his checkdown was the first option. Just my observations from watching the game.

[Tinstar]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Obviously I'm just a fan and my opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's. But to me he didn't even hold the ball long enough to scan the field in many of these situations. It seemed like his checkdown was the first option. Just my observations from watching the game.

Before the game on Saturday, the biggest criticism was Hackenberg holds the ball too long. Today after a solid showing, the kid is being criticize for getting rid of the ball too quickly . Even if both criticism are valid, it's the 1st live action in this offense  in the 1st preseason game . He has 3 more practice games to find the middle ground and that's much more encouraging than he will never play in the NFL .

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Tinstar said:

What were your feelings about Hackenberg before he threw the ball on Saturday, and be honest ?  I have spent the entire off season being told that this kid doesn't belong in the NFL, but today just about  every Jet fan is optimistic .  

Me, I think I will wait until after the last preseason game to be optimistic and I wanted to spend a late 1st round pick on this kid .

I was cautiously optimistic after they drafted him but became less enthusiastic after lackluster training camp reports and zero appearances in the first two preseason games last year (pretty big red flag IMO.) Then he looked halfway decent against the Giants... But that Eagles game... Man, I've never seen an NFL QB perform worse in a game than that, at any level. I know he was playing with scrubs but still, he was so unfathomably bad it's hard for that not to make an impression.

So yeah, I thought there were a lot of red flags that indicated the kid wasn't at the level we would all obviously hope he'd be at. My feeling was definitely that it was unlikely he'd ever be a starter in the NFL and would likely be out of the league in a few years. I would LOVE to be proven wrong. But I really think the rosy reports are largely based on extremely low expectations. He completely short safe passes and didn't lead a scoring drive. That's kind of a given for an NFL QB isn't it? Isn't that only "impressive" if you assumed he couldn't play?

I'm rooting for the kid. I really hope he works out and becomes the guy people thought might go first overall after his freshman year at Penn State. But I'm pumping the brakes on the hype train until i see him make a few nice throws down the field and lead some TD drives. 

[Scott Dierking]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Obviously I'm just a fan and my opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's. But to me he didn't even hold the ball long enough to scan the field in many of these situations. It seemed like his checkdown was the first option. Just my observations from watching the game.

As you stated, purely opinion, and that does not make it right. in fact, the coach said differently.

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

As you stated, purely opinion, and that does not make it right. in fact, the coach said differently.

You're right -- there's no way any coach would ever have incentive to say something that wasn't 100% true.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're right -- there's no way any coach would ever have incentive to say something that wasn't 100% true.

Yup, a huge conspiracy.

Again, I will ask you for the film, that shows Hack missed options that were available to him downfield. You must have seen them.

[Tinstar]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I was cautiously optimistic after they drafted him but became less enthusiastic after lackluster training camp reports and zero appearances in the first two preseason games last year (pretty big red flag IMO.) Then he looked halfway decent against the Giants... But that Eagles game... Man, I've never seen an NFL QB perform worse in a game than that, at any level. I know he was playing with scrubs but still, he was so unfathomably bad it's hard for that not to make an impression.

So yeah, I thought there were a lot of red flags that indicated the kid wasn't at the level we would all obviously hope he'd be at. My feeling was definitely that it was unlikely he'd ever be a starter in the NFL and would likely be out of the league in a few years. I would LOVE to be proven wrong. But I really think the rosy reports are largely based on extremely low expectations. He completely short safe passes and didn't lead a scoring drive. That's kind of a given for an NFL QB isn't it? Isn't that only "impressive" if you assumed he couldn't play?

I'm rooting for the kid. I really hope he works out and becomes the guy people thought might go first overall after his freshman year at Penn State. But I'm pumping the brakes on the hype train until i see him make a few nice throws down the field and lead some TD drives. 

I was never on that run away train just like I was never on the he was a waste of a draft pick train .  I want this kid to succeed because I know he has the talent too succeed, but it's ultimately up to him .  I hated what this Franchise did to Geno Smith and to Mark Sanchez  even thou I didn't like the tools of Sanchez .  I like what this franchise is doing with Christian Hackenberg .

[Matt39]

Meh. Wont kill him, he looked ok. Simple throws and one reads. The effort on his fumble was weak. Just stood there.

[nycdan]

Riffing off of the theme here, but getting back to the actual film, which was the point of the thread, look at the play at 1:23.  

3rd and 4.  5 receivers (including RB, but all went out).  Not a single one ran past the first-down marker just 4 yards away.  It looks like he checked off one WR on the left side to the RB on the same side who had to beat a defender but really didn't have much room to work with. 

Hack never looked to the right where he had an open receiver at the first-down marker for a brief moment but that's something we hope will come with time and experience.  I think what irks me is that not a single WR stretched the defense, which isn't even WCO as described.  Curious to see what others think of that particular play.

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Riffing off of the theme here, but getting back to the actual film, which was the point of the thread, look at the play at 1:23.  

3rd and 4.  5 receivers (including RB, but all went out).  Not a single one ran past the first-down marker just 4 yards away.  It looks like he checked off one WR on the left side to the RB on the same side who had to beat a defender but really didn't have much room to work with. 

Hack never looked to the right where he had an open receiver at the first-down marker for a brief moment but that's something we hope will come with time and experience.  I think what irks me is that not a single WR stretched the defense, which isn't even WCO as described.  Curious to see what others think of that particular play.

 

 

Yup, the CB was playing off on that play, and that would have been a better choice.

What you also have to look at on that play though is the rush. Titans came with 4 and both DE's were getting good push, and I do not believe there may have been time to scan the field.

[Jet Nut]

17 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're right -- there's no way any coach would ever have incentive to say something that wasn't 100% true.

Which somehow translates into everything he says about a player or his performance is a lie?