Derek Carr was a second round pick who went 3-13 with a 76 rating his first year and now he has a 125 million dollar contract.

[C Mart]

4 hours ago, glenn31 said:

Derek Carr is a football player with the inherent talents to be a viable starting QB in the NFL.

Christian Hackenberg, however, is not.

and yet he lasted 36 picks...

[glenn31]

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

and yet he lasted 36 picks...

What does that even mean lol... Fact is we know one has the talent to be an NFL QB, & one doesn't... and if people knew what they were watching when they watch football, they'd have known Hack don't got it since before Draft Day 2016 ever arrived.

[C Mart]

2 minutes ago, glenn31 said:

What does that even mean lol... Fact is we know one has the talent to be an NFL QB, & one doesn't... and if people knew what they were watching when they watch football, they'd have known Hack don't got it since before Draft Day 2016 ever arrived.

Why did he last that long? 

got it..Guess Scot McCloughan and Mayock don't know football...

[thadude]

We don't have a qb with 1/10 the talent of Derek Carr

 

David Carr would be our week 1 starter

[glenn31]

12 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Why did he last that long? 

got it..Guess Scot McCloughan and Mayock don't know football...

I don't know and I couldn't care less. We don't have him because par for the Jets course we had a GM who had the IQ of a bedbug and chose to take Mr. Nostrils (aka MC Soft-Jaw) a year earlier to lead this team into the future. If he were here, I might care more about why he lasted so long, but since I'm an adult with an actual life, i don't ponder on why the Raiders chose Carr so late. All I know is they got the right one, WHICH IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

And can you guys please stop throwing media names around like they're 100% always right? Last i heard McCloughan lost his job building that powerhouse Redskins franchise because he's a drunken degenerate, and I'll pay Mayock some mind when he can break down a Black QB without having it dripping with coded messages.

As if I need some "draft expert" (whatever the F that is) to tell me if a player has the ability to play at a high level or not. Hello? I've been watching and involved with this sport for 30+ years. Unless you get impressed by shiny objects, it's not that hard to figure it out.

[C Mart]

4 minutes ago, glenn31 said:

I don't know and I couldn't care less. We don't have him because par for the Jets course we had a GM who had the IQ of a bedbug and chose to take Mr. Nostrils (aka MC Soft-Jaw) a year earlier to lead this team into the future. If he were here, I might care more about why he lasted so long, but since I'm an adult with an actual life, i don't ponder on why the Raiders chose Carr so late. All I know is they got the right one, WHICH IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

And can you guys please stop throwing media names around like they're 100% always right? Last i heard McCloughan lost his job building that powerhouse Redskins franchise because he's a drunken degenerate, and I'll pay Mayock some mind when he can break down a Black QB without having it dripping with coded messages.

As if I need some "draft expert" (whatever the F that is) to tell me if a player has the ability to play at a high level or not. Hello? I've been watching and involved with this sport for 30+ years. Unless you get impressed by shiny objects, it's not that hard to figure it out.

Got it...I'll let you get back to your scouting responsibilities for whatever NFL team you work for or have in the past.

[glenn31]

Just now, C Mart said:

Got it...I'll let you get back to your scouting responsibilities for whatever NFL team you work for or have in the past.

HAHAHAHAH!!!

So I gotta be an NFL scout to be able to look at a player and know whether he's gonna be good at the next level or not? Then have the audacity to make my opinion known?

If that's the case NONE OF US should be here discussing prospects... including YOU.

[C Mart]

Just now, glenn31 said:

HAHAHAHAH!!!

So I gotta be an NFL scout to be able to look at a player and know whether he's gonna be good at the next level or not? Then have the audacity to make my opinion known?

If that's the case NONE OF US should be here discussing prospects... including YOU.

I'm not a scout and never pretend to be...I just like to give players and in this case a 22 yr old kid a chance. Never said he is or isn't the answer.  Just haven't ruled him out, yet. If I'm wrong so be it.  been wrong many times before

[Scoop24]

Carr also had 21 Tds and 12 ints in his rookie year .. there's a lot posistive in that ratio to build around . 

[glenn31]

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I'm not a scout and never pretend to be...I just like to give players and in this case a 22 yr old kid a chance. Never said he is or isn't the answer.  Just haven't ruled him out, yet. If I'm wrong so be it.  been wrong many times before

Good for you. I never said I was any type of scout either, but gimme a break if you're trying to tell me you need some type of extra special training to look at a player in college and can tell if he's what the NFL needs.

It reminds me of when Hasheem Thabeet was coming out of UCONN about 6 years ago. The scouts and media had him pegged as some can't miss. I said to myself "Are they outta their minds???" Not because I'm some savant at hoops, it's not even on the level of my favorite sports, but all I had to do was reflect on seeing Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning & other 5s who dominated the college game who were legit can't miss Centers. At no point in time did Thabeet EVER remind me of those aforementioned guys. So it's easy to extrapolate that he won't be a dominant 5 when he has to go bang with bigger boys in the NBA. And if you don't know the end of that story, Thabeet was a colossal bust.

We all end up around 50/50 with our predictions, but some of them, like Hack, is just too, TOO, obvious to get wrong and only emotion and bias can sway you otherwise, IMHO.

[mphtrilogy]

I was concerned after last week we might not get a top 5 pick, I'm not concerned anymore, but we have to play hack.. it kills me to watch Mariotta and JW the year we were crap, if Woody fires Rex in Week12, we get MM... ugh

[C Mart]

Just now, glenn31 said:

Good for you. I never said I was any type of scout either, but gimme a break if you're trying to tell me you need some type of extra special training to look at a player in college and can tell if he's what the NFL needs.

It reminds me of when Hasheem Thabeet was coming out of UCONN about 6 years ago. The scouts and media had him pegged as some can't miss. I said to myself "Are they outta their minds???" Not because I'm some savant at hoops, it's not even on the level of my favorite sports, but all I had to do was reflect on seeing Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning & other 5s who dominated the college game who were legit can't miss Centers. At no point in time did Thabeet EVER remind me of those aforementioned guys. So it's easy to extrapolate that he won't be a dominant 5 when he has to go bang with bigger boys in the NBA. And if you don't know the end of that story, Thabeet was a colossal bust.

We all end up around 50/50 with our predictions, but some of them, like Hack, is just too, TOO, obvious to get wrong and only emotion and bias can sway you otherwise, IMHO.

I'm just rooting for a 22 yr old Jet player to succeed. But you're right..My bad. I'm wrong

[sirlancemehlot]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

OH, I agree we must start Hack all 16 this year.

But I find the way Jets Fans endless repeating of the old "Well, Peyton Manning went .......so we must start X" or "Well, Derrick Carr was drafted.....so we must start X" to be some of the least logical arguments around.

Our guy is not Peyton Manning and he's not Derrick Carr.  He will not reproduce what they did if only we do the same basic things those teams did.  Please, for all our sakes, stop using this as an argument.

 

But Steve Young sat the Bench to begin his career and so did Aaron Rodgers. So that's obviously how you develop a young Quarterback 

[glenn31]

3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I'm just rooting for a 22 yr old Jet player to succeed. But you're right..My bad. I'm wrong

No, I'm not saying you're wrong for the reason you just stated. I'm saying you're wrong for expecting sap to drip out of some dead wood. Hack isn't gonna turn this thing around.... he ain't it.

[Jet_Engine1]

8 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

The Jets beat reporters, commentators, fans and coaches are all living in crazy town right now. The way you develop a QB is to play him and let him go through his lumps. Starting Mccown on a team that is going nowhere when you have a talented QB who needs reps and time on the field to develop is beyond asinine. All Hack has to show is he knows how to get them lined up and call out plays. You start the ****ing guy Maccagnan spent a high pick on and you try and develop him. Throwing out a 38 year old is a waste of time and serves only to pad a couple extra wins on Bowles resume. There is no rationale to start Mccown no matter how much shills like Bob Wischusen tries to convince a skeptical fan base.

Hack doesnt look like he belongs on an NFL field. Ive seen nobodies like Brett Ratliff, Greg McElroy and Brooks Bollinger look like they are more accomplished players.

 

Carr looked liked the real deal day one on a sh*t team.

 

Ridiculous comparison. Flawed logic at best.

[C Mart]

1 minute ago, glenn31 said:

No, I'm not saying you're wrong for the reason you just stated. I'm saying you're wrong for expecting sap to drip out of some dead wood. Hack isn't gonna turn this thing around.... he ain't it.

No sweat. I said I'm wrong. Enjoy your Sunday.

[glenn31]

3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

No sweat. I said I'm wrong. Enjoy your Sunday.

No doubt... Jets got us all hot under the collar this morning... Hope it's 1 love, fam

[aec4]

Hackenberg had a good freshman year at PSU.    Since then, not so much.  

[RSJ]

You all should check out Stafford's rookie year stats. Because if Hack doesnt work out and the Jets do use the number one pick on a QB, this is likely what you will have to look forward to. Although, honestly, it will probably be worse since there is no Megatron on this roster. Point is, no matter who the young QB is that you play the first few years, there are going to be games like last night.

[56mehl56]

9 hours ago, j4jets said:

Actually stopped reading at "The Jets have a talented QB". 

Actually stopped reading at this : j4jets.

[56mehl56]

4 hours ago, glenn31 said:

No, I'm not saying you're wrong for the reason you just stated. I'm saying you're wrong for expecting sap to drip out of some dead wood. Hack isn't gonna turn this thing around.... he ain't it.

Your extrapolating what Hack will be in the pros based on what he did at PSU. That's a mighty narrowly focused evaluation of the player's true potential. Its not the fact that you don't think he will develop , its the fact that your so sure he won't develop that makes you sound arrogant . 

[RoadFan]

9 hours ago, DetroitRed said:

Full support of starting Hack because he ensures we draft #1 overall

This is the best argument for playing Hack... and it is not close.

[tuffhand]

8 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Derek Carr was a 2nd round pick because his last name scared teams off.  If his last name was smith he would have been the number 1 pick.  He is an elite talent.

Hackenberg cant even break the huddle correctly. 

These comparisons you homers make are laughable.

The idea that the Carr name scared people off is absurd. This is a league where you can abuse and/or rape women and still go in the first round or and commit murder and make the HOF.

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Actually stopped reading at this : j4jets.

Original

[Snell41]

Hackenberg may very well suck, but I'd like to see how he looks with some talent around him so there is little doubt about him. 

may very well suck, but I'd like to see how he looks with some talent around him so there is little doubt about him. 


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Pcola]

8 hours ago, C Mart said:

and yet he lasted 36 picks...

And yet, if they redid that draft, Carr would be a top 3 pick.  If we redid the 2016 draft, hard to imagine Hack getting drafted at all.  

[Barkus]

Hack did not even look like a functional qb this past game. Someone pulled randomly from the stands would have performed similarly. It was a total embarrassment. Starting him at this juncture would be the equivalent of a forfeit, it is possible the jets could be fined for starting him😁

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Why? He would be riding the bench watching Josh Mccown play. Derek Carr is no better than Hack if they're both holding clipboards.

Because Hackenberg held a clipboard for the Jets, it obviously means every QB prospect would have been holding a clipboard for the Jets.

#science

[Dcat]

14 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Geno Smith, Brock Osweiler, Jimmy Claussen, Pat White, and Kellen Clemens were all drafted in the second round too. Will Hackenberg end up like them, or like Derek Carr? Gee gosh golly I wonder

You got my curiosity going.  I looked up 2nd round QBs from 1984 - 2015.  If I counted right, there were 32 of them from 1984 - 2015.  Hack was the only one in 2016 and Kizer this year.  Out of the 32, only seven had sustainable starting status with any team, meaning these are the ones that could be considered successful QBs or at least within sniffing distance of that:  

Boomer Esiason, Brett Favre, Kordell Stewart, Jake Plummer, Drew Brees, Andy Dalton and Derek Carr.  

7 out of 32.. 2nd round QBs have roughly a 20% chance for sustained success.  

Here are the other 24 that sucked or were at best backups:

Jack Trudeau, Mike Elkins, Billie Joe Tolliver, Browning Nagle (Jets), Matt Blumdin, Tony Sacca, Todd Collins, Tony Banks, Charlie Batch, Shaun King, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo, Kellen Clemens (Jets), Travaris Jackson, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, Pat White, Jimmy Claussen, Colin Kaepernick (even though he went to a superbowl), Brock Osweiller, Geno Smith (Jets),

And then there is Jimmy Garappolo, for whom I'll abstain decision because he has to sit behind Brady.  So at best it's 8/32 or 25% chance for success.  

I'm pretty sure we'll be adding Hack to the list of 24.  That makes 4 of them jets 2nd round picks.  0 for 4 for us.

Edit:

Hack was selected at pick 51.  If you narrow it down even more...  just looking at the 2d round QBs who were drafted anywhere from 8 picks below Hack to 8 picks above, from pick #43 - #59 and there isn't even one solid QB: (pick #) (name)

(43) Drew Stanton, (45) Todd Collins, (46) Tony Sacca, (47) Jack Trudeau, (48) Jimmy Claussen, (49) Kellen Clemens, (50) Shaun King, (51) Billy Joe Tolliver, (51) Christian Hackenburg, (52) DeShone Kizer, (53) Quincy Carter, (56) Brian Brohm, (57) Chad Henne, (57) Brock Osweiller, (59) Marques Tuiasosopo

[dbatesman]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

You got my curiosity going.  I looked up 2nd round QBs from 1984 - 2015.  If I counted right, there were 32 of them from 1984 - 2015.  Hack was the only one in 2016 and Kizer this year.  Out of the 32, only seven had sustainable starting status with any team, meaning these are the ones that could be considered successful QBs or at least within sniffing distance of that:  

Boomer Esiason, Brett Favre, Kordell Stewart, Jake Plummer, Drew Brees, Andy Dalton and Derek Carr.  

7 out of 32.. 2nd round QBs have roughly a 20% chance for sustained success.  

Here are the other 24 that sucked or were at best backups:

Jack Trudeau, Mike Elkins, Billie Joe Tolliver, Browning Nagle (Jets), Matt Blumdin, Tony Sacca, Todd Collins, Tony Banks, Charlie Batch, Shaun King, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo, Kellen Clemens (Jets), Travaris Jackson, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, Pat White, Jimmy Claussen, Colin Kaepernick (even though he went to a superbowl), Brock Osweiller, Geno Smith (Jets),

And then there is Jimmy Garappolo, for whom I'll abstain decision because he has to sit behind Brady.  So at best it's 8/32 or 25% chance for success.  

I'm pretty sure we'll be adding Hack to the list of 24.  That makes 4 of them jets 2nd round picks.  0 for 4 for us.

Edit:

Hack was selected at pick 51.  If you narrow it down even more...  just looking at the 2d round QBs who were drafted anywhere from 8 picks below Hack to 8 picks above, from pick #43 - #59 and there isn't even one solid QB: (pick #) (name)

(43) Drew Stanton, (45) Todd Collins, (46) Tony Sacca, (47) Jack Trudeau, (48) Jimmy Claussen, (49) Kellen Clemens, (50) Shaun King, (51) Billy Joe Tolliver, (51) Christian Hackenburg, (52) DeShone Kizer, (53) Quincy Carter, (56) Brian Brohm, (57) Chad Henne, (57) Brock Osweiller, (59) Marques Tuiasosopo

Yeah, teams always think they're getting great value, but usually they're just getting a sh*t player.

[Il Mostro]

On 8/20/2017 at 4:15 AM, ECURB said:

Step 1

Draft Derek Carr

Raiders real Step 1 was to invest in building that O-line.  Same approach as the Cowboys during their sucking years.

[CanadaSteve]

On 8/20/2017 at 8:13 AM, August said:

Derek Carr showed promise as a rookie albeit while being up and down. So you know what the Raiders did the following offseason? Draft Cooper and signed Crabtree while bolstering their oline. The Jets think Hackenberg could be the guy and what did they do? Get rid of the veteran Eric Decker while hoping to rely on mostly unproven young receivers. Hackenberg may very well suck, but I'd like to see how he looks with some talent around him so there is little doubt about him. 

UM....you realize this is a bit of a contradiction?  Carr had nothing his first year as a starter, then they went out and drafted/built an o-line.

Something tells me that is the plan with the $100 million surplus we have next year.

[Kleckineau]

Sad truth is this team is rancid due to picks like Pryor Miliner Coples Wilson Sanchez Gholston Lee and then adding the cherry on top is going 2 safety's in a row when the team has no QB.

You cant make this sh!t up. A blind chimp throwing his turds at a draft board could do better.

 

[August]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

UM....you realize this is a bit of a contradiction?  Carr had nothing his first year as a starter, then they went out and drafted/built an o-line.

Something tells me that is the plan with the $100 million surplus we have next year.

That's not true he had Andre Holmes who was similar to Kerley, James Jones, Hback Marcel Reese, Moore, Streater and Rivera. That's not necessarily world beaters but it wasn't terrible either. But instead of settling with that group they upgraded massively by adding Cooper and Crabtree. 

[Dcat]

10 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Yeah, teams always think they're getting great value, but usually they're just getting a sh*t player.

Anyone who says Mac's future depends on Hack or that Mac has "staked his career" onthe mid 2nd Rd pick of Hack is an idiot. 2nd round QB pick fail 4 out of 5 times and specifically within the middle of round 2 virtually nil. That one errant pick will not and should not determine Mac's future. The rest of his picks.. sure but for the bozos who repeatedly claim that Mac risked his career on a #51 pick of a bad QB, just get real. What nonsense.