Game Observations (DET)

[shawn306]

I am finding it very possible that this offense does not score 150 points. It is that bad. The O-Line looks like crap right now. The WR's are brutal. The QB's stink, The only even average players this offense has is Forte and Powell.

[drsamuel84]

23 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

3 years of B+M, and an asst. coach scapegoat purge, and the issues are all identical to the moment they were hired. Can't hide behind Rex/Tanny/Idzik anymore. 3 years is how long a turn-around should take. They shouldn't be 'starting' the rebuild now - they should be proving they've got the change in place, and underway successfully.

Nothing about the state of this team is acceptable.

In no way am I making excuses for Macc and Bowles but I think the kiss of death for these guys will end up being Fitz and the fact that he fooled the team into thinking they were close. With the money this team needed to spend and the embarrassment of the Idzik years Macc tried to do something very tricky and that was the infamous "competitive rebuild"  which I'm sure Woody played a major part in as well.  So with the team going 10-6 in year 1 and just missing the playoffs the F.O. and C.S. tried to recapture that lighting in a bottle and resigned Fitz, brought back the Vets and instead the team completely tanked and Fitz reverted back to what he really is.  Now, in year 3 the rebuild is actually starting and this front office and coaching staff have nothing to show over the first 2 years other than a missed playoff opportunity in year 1 followed by an awful season in year 2.  The talent is severely depleted and while the focus has been on QB the lack of rebuilding the O-Line is very concerning to me.  If the second preseason game is indicative of the type of year we have I cannot see Bowles and Macc surviving.  

[Adoni Beast]

Whether Hackenberg or Petty show promise, or we draft a QB in the first round next year, this much is clear...next seasons FA and draft needs to be used almost exclusively on offensive line and offensive weapons. 

Any all time great QB would struggle to produce with this trash we're putting on the field.

[jeremy2020]

19 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

 The talent is severely depleted and while the focus has been on QB the lack of rebuilding the O-Line is very concerning to me.  

This is the 'rebuilt' line. 

[Integrity28]

21 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

In no way am I making excuses for Macc and Bowles but I think the kiss of death for these guys will end up being Fitz and the fact that he fooled the team into thinking they were close. With the money this team needed to spend and the embarrassment of the Idzik years Macc tried to do something very tricky and that was the infamous "competitive rebuild"  which I'm sure Woody played a major part in as well.  So with the team going 10-6 in year 1 and just missing the playoffs the F.O. and C.S. tried to recapture that lighting in a bottle and resigned Fitz, brought back the Vets and instead the team completely tanked and Fitz reverted back to what he really is.  Now, in year 3 the rebuild is actually starting and this front office and coaching staff have nothing to show over the first 2 years other than a missed playoff opportunity in year 1 followed by an awful season in year 2.  The talent is severely depleted and while the focus has been on QB the lack of rebuilding the O-Line is very concerning to me.  If the second preseason game is indicative of the type of year we have I cannot see Bowles and Macc surviving.  

Easy to blame Fitz - but Revis was just as big a mistake. He was a step slow and had safety help his whole season with the Pats. Bowles has been just as guilty of Rex when it comes to valuing reputation over production from his veterans. In so many ways, we literally hired a guy with the exact same flaws - but an introverted personality.

Anyway, that part aside... the notion that a "rebuild is starting", as if it's a thing you do, complete and then profit from is absurd. So many fans have bought into this, so I'm not singling you out. Every team, even the SB champs, go into every new year with the plan of "rebuilding". Some teams have less improvements they need to make, but rest assured, no team in the league rests on its laurels and things it's good to go. The Patriots have added several pass-catching threats to their offense in Cooks, Dwayne Allen, and Burkhead - these players alone would be great to have. They've added them to an already strong unit. What'd we add? Kenbrell Thompkins?

The kiss of death isn't Fitz. It's that they're not doing a good job with anything other than top 10 picks that fall into their laps.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Every team, even the SB champs, go into every new year with the plan of "rebuilding". 

The kiss of death isn't Fitz. It's that they're not doing a good job with anything other than top 10 picks that fall into their laps.

the team's starting defense has 5 1st round picks (mo/sheldon/williams/lee/adams).  for the 2017 salary cap, forte counts $5 million, powell is $4.6 million.  the next highest skill level player on offense is hack, at $1 million.  the team does not invest money or premium draft picks on offense.  wilkerson makes more than all the wrs/tes combined.

[Beerfish]

Some of us have been putting out dire warnings about the oline since DBrick packed it in.    A good oline is a foundation of many teams, you ignore it at your own peril.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Some of us have been putting out dire warnings about the oline since DBrick packed it in.    A good oline is a foundation of many teams, you ignore it at your own peril.

true, the line sucked, but o-lines look better when the qb gets the ball out quick, chicken/egg.  that said, hack got nailed a few times where he just had no chance.

[Lupz27]

10 hours ago, win4ever said:

One thing I can tell you, our receivers aren't getting much separation at all.

This is such an understatement which is sad, the only kind of QB that can operate with this kind of issues is a guy who operates better while extending plays with his legs like a R Wilson, other than that it's your screwed city.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

This is such an understatement which is sad, the only kind of QB that can operate with this kind of issues is a guy who operates better while extending plays with his legs like a R Wilson, other than that it's your screwed city.

part of this is that in terms of talent, the rookie wrs are better than peake/marshall but are only playing in the 2nd half with petty.  i'd rather see hansen/stewart/anderson with hack, marshall is useless and peake is a jag who would not play if enunwa were healthy.

[Lupz27]

40 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Whether Hackenberg or Petty show promise, or we draft a QB in the first round next year, this much is clear...next seasons FA and draft needs to be used almost exclusively on offensive line and offensive weapons. 

Any all time great QB would struggle to produce with this trash we're putting on the field.

Exactly, just go look at the 2nd Patriots game in 2015, the Patriots, and Brady had zero healthy skill players, and a really banged up O-line, and we made Brady look pedestrian, 2 weeks later they all got healthy, and the Pats ran the table to win the Super Bowl, that just shows how much the other 10 guys mean, Brady was good enough to keep the Pats in the game, and almost beat us that week, because he is Brady, but an average QB would have had no chance with that team Brady QB'd that week.

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

part of this is that in terms of talent, the rookie wrs are better than peake/marshall but are only playing in the 2nd half with petty.  i'd rather see hansen/stewart/anderson with hack, marshall is useless and peake is a jag who would not play if enunwa were healthy.

Can't argue that.

[Bugg]

13 hours ago, Gangrene said:

It doesn't matter what side of the Hackenberg argument you come down on, a pagan or a believer; to my eyes he is not appear ready to start. They have only installed a part of the Morton's complicated version of the WCO so far...without a decent oline/running game and someone other than Robbie Anderson to throw to, I think it's madness to put him out there in game one of the regular season.

No one wants to wait another sucky wasted year to find out if this kid has it but whatever hope there is for him to turn it around, I can see him getting permanently David Carr'ed if he plays under the current circumstances. As the world and it's mother knows at Penn state he regressed year two under a new coach/new system; he can't regress much further than he currently is... however on the 2017 New York Jets offense, he is set up for failure if he starts.

Infuriating whether Hack is as horrible as he looks or if he goes to Canton (much more likely the former). . Look, if between when the season ended, OTAS, minicamps and training camp you cannot convey the offense to  bunch of football players who have been playing since Pop Warner, your offense is a major problem. And worse this franchise has been through this exact stupidity with Hackett and Schottenheimer. An offense is gonna get so many snaps every game, run plays that take advantage of your personnel and exploits the weaknesses of the opponent. 

If a prospective OC candidate says something lik "It will take until October to install the offense.." in the interview, he needs to be shown the door. But when you have an HC that has no idea about offense, this is inevitable. 

Meet the new OC,same as a number of the old OCs. 

Institutionally this franchise forgets everything and learns nothing. 

[BCJet]

While there is little to excuse about Hack's performance there were certainly extenuating factors, the biggest of which is that we too were playing a vanilla scheme on offense.

Morton isnt an idiot, and he certainly realizes that none of our receivers will be able to beat a defense on ability alone, so he is going to have to manufacture opportunities with rub routes, motion, and bunch/stack formations.  Robby Anderson is very fast, but he isnt physical enough to beat press coverage, so we will need to use the scheme to get him open.  The problem is though, that we cant show that stuff now, and lining up stewart or peake and asking them to get open against a first team defense is going to result in sacks or incompletions no matter who our QB is.

 

[Adoni Beast]

39 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Exactly, just go look at the 2nd Patriots game in 2015, the Patriots, and Brady had zero healthy skill players, and a really banged up O-line, and we made Brady look pedestrian, 2 weeks later they all got healthy, and the Pats ran the table to win the Super Bowl, that just shows how much the other 10 guys mean, Brady was good enough to keep the Pats in the game, and almost beat us that week, because he is Brady, but an average QB would have had no chance with that team Brady QB'd that week.

Completely agree. Also, Hack only threw 6 passes. Lol, I mean people are freaking out for basically a rookie for having a sh*t game with back up oline, no name wr's, and again only throwing 6 picks. If he threw 6 passes and threw 2 ints, I'd be much more concerned. He played bad, looked overwhelmed, but I expected a lot of this. 

Idk if Hackenberg is going to be good. But he needs time, and people need to relax.

If Hackenberg does better than expected, and we still end up with the #1 pick (yeah I know its a paradox scenario) we still should be drafting Darnold. 

If Hackenberg does better than expected and Garropolo for some reason wants to sign with us in the off season we shoukd still sign him. 

The point is develop quarterbacks the right way, for how they need it. Some need a few games, some a few years. But develop Hack to his peak, if we get a better qb along the way, at least he becomes a tradable commodity.

[UntouchableCrew]

 

On 8/20/2017 at 10:20 AM, joewilly12 said:

John Morton the new OC has managed 13 points in 8 quarters of football.........just saying. 

Well he scored a touchdown on the only drive with the starting QB, and 4+ quarters of that was with Hackenberg.

I really don't think you can crush Morton because they're trying to get an extended look at a lost cause.

[JetBlue]

On 8/20/2017 at 0:23 PM, Rangers9 said:

Hack said after the game that numbers and stats aren't that important and that the game was a good learning experience. Dude, the season isn't about being a learning experience for you the games count and most Jets fans want to win as many as we can. This is your opportunity so make something out of it. If you are lights out you win the starting job. If not you're not playing. 

Call me when these games mean something... It is called preseason for a reason. It is absolutely about learning so he is better prepared if and when he does get to start, even if is few games into the season.  I wish we could stop overreacting one way or the other regarding these meaningliess games. 

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Call me when these games mean something... It is called preseason for a reason. It is absolutely about learning so he is better prepared if and when he does get to start, even if is few games into the season.  I wish we could stop overreacting one way or the other regarding these meaningliess games. 

The problem is that hack has no meaningful games to judge. That does not mean he can't be judged on everything he has done so far. 

[C Mart]

BTW-why isn't Buffalo in the running for going 0-16? What does their O have?  Who are their WRs? 

[jeremy2020]

Just now, C Mart said:

BTW-why isn't Buffalo in the running for going 0-16? What does their O have?  Who are their WRs? 

Boldin, Zaye (2nd round pick), and Jordan Matthews. Two of them have been far more productive in the league than any receiver on the Jets and the 3rd is a highly touted prospect. Oh, they also have a QB who's better than McCown.

[JetBlue]

Just now, jeremy2020 said:

The problem is that hack has no meaningful games to judge. That does not mean he can't be judged on everything he has done so far. 

I get it, I just don't read too much into it especailly based on the play of his offensive line.  Bottom line is the guy is still very raw and is going have games like this, as is alot of young quarterbacks.   I don't know if he will ever get it together but I refuse to make any real judgments based on this game.  He looked decent last week, lets see if he has a bounce back outing next week.  

[C Mart]

3 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Boldin, Zaye (2nd round pick), and Jordan Matthews. Two of them have been far more productive in the league than any receiver on the Jets and the 3rd is a highly touted prospect. Oh, they also have a QB who's better than McCown.

Boldin retired..

Matthews isn't anything special (drposies)..Zaye's a rookie like Stewart and Hansen..Taylor isn't anything special either

[BCJet]

7 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Boldin retired..

Matthews isn't anything special (drposies)..Zaye's a rookie like Stewart and Hansen..Taylor isn't anything special either

They are absolutely in the running for a tank job, and may be without their LT Cordy Glenn as well.

[jeremy2020]

25 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Boldin retired..

Matthews isn't anything special (drposies)..Zaye's a rookie like Stewart and Hansen..Taylor isn't anything special either

Turns out the dropsies thing isn't as bad as people make it out to be. He's like 15th among #1 receivers last season with 6 drops for the season (FOX). 

Ok, so we'll pretend a 2nd round pick which has roughly a 49% of being a full time starter is the same as a 5th and 6th picks. The stats for wide receivers:

• The first round success rate is 58% and the second round is almost as good at 49%. 
• The third round has the second highest number of receivers drafted with 52 but only a 25% success rate.
• 5th round is 16% and 6th is 9%

You may notice the substantial dropoff in the likelihood of becoming a starter (pro-football-reference.com).

Taylor is certainly "not anything special", but he's light years beyond what the Jets plan to trot out at the position.

Also, the Bills have had one of the top rushing offenses the past few years. The Jets...well, let's just say The Jets have not.