The two safeties vs Watson/Mahomes and Cook

[MDL_JET]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

UH-OH halt the Mahomes to Canton bus tour.

 

Chiefs coach Andy Reid said Alex Smith is the unquestioned starter.

"It's Alex's job," Reid said. "There's no gray area with that." No. 10 overall pick Patrick Mahomes has created the buzz this offseason, but Smith has been quietly excellent, completing 12-of-15 passes for 131 yards and a touchdown. Unless he falls completely on his face, Smith will be the starter all season and remains an undervalued asset in deeper fantasy leagues.

Sounds like they want to develop him and have him sit this year. F'n lunatics. Who does that.

[jets rooter]

It's very apparent that the jets went for defense early.You cannot make a judgement call on the quarter backs drafted early. Very few q.b.s make it early in the n.f.l.

[rangerous]

21 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Which franchise QB were you pushing for at 6?  Who was a cant miss, franchise QB.  Which one? You keep blabbing but never give us the QB who was going to change things.

Pretty much all you can do is talk negative and make fun of the fact that everywhere the kid goes hes a leader.  To a true devoted fan thats an open door to make fun of the pick.

 

it's like the guys who say they can trade to get this guy or that.  the last two qb's worth anything were winston and mariota and there was simply no way tampa was going to trade out and neither were the titans.  maybe wentz but philly wasn't trading out either.

[naturalscience]

Our gm stinks. The last gm stinks. The gm before him stinks. Our next gm stinks. The gm after him stinks.

[redlichtie]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

I too am not all in on Darnold.  A big part of the hype with him is the school that he goes to.  A previous poster said Darnold is way ahead of Mahomes.  I wonder if said poster would be saying the same thing if Darnold played for Texas Tech and Mahomes for USC.

I agree with the happy feet and the questionable 6-4 listing.  That long wind up is also a major issue; supposedly, he's has shorten it a bit during the off-season.  I'm curious to see how performs this year having tinkered his throwing motion.  I want to see if he reverts back when under pressure.  All that said I think I would still take him over Rosen and Allen at this point.  Rosen is too stiff for my liking; I also see him as one of those guys who needs the best conditions to have success.  I like the fact that Darnold seems to thrive when things around him are falling apart.  Allen is the most talented and the most reckless of the 3.

Pretty fair analysis all-round, there's the character question surrounding Rosen too but I actually quite like what i've seen and heard from him. He might be a prick but the right kind of prick!! You see stiffness I see upright and in control of his movement but point taken.

The other guy to keep an eye on is Nick Fitzgerald at Mississippi State. Great size and off the scale talent as both a passer and running, might actually be better than Dak! 

[redlichtie]

25 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it's like the guys who say they can trade to get this guy or that.  the last two qb's worth anything were winston and mariota and there was simply no way tampa was going to trade out and neither were the titans.  maybe wentz but philly wasn't trading out either.

Fairly sure the Browns traded away the chance to draft Wentz by dealing the pick to Philly

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, redlichtie said:

Fairly sure the Browns traded away the chance to draft Wentz by dealing the pick to Philly

i think you're right.  the browns had a number of high picks, forever.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, legler82 said:

I too am not all in on Darnold.  A big part of the hype with him is the school that he goes to.  A previous poster said Darnold is way ahead of Mahomes.  I wonder if said poster would be saying the same thing if Darnold played for Texas Tech and Mahomes for USC.

I agree with the happy feet and the questionable 6-4 listing.  That long wind up is also a major issue; supposedly, he's has shorten it a bit during the off-season.  I'm curious to see how performs this year having tinkered his throwing motion.  I want to see if he reverts back when under pressure.  All that said I think I would still take him over Rosen and Allen at this point.  Rosen is too stiff for my liking; I also see him as one of those guys who needs the best conditions to have success.  I like the fact that Darnold seems to thrive when things around him are falling apart.  Allen is the most talented and the most reckless of the 3.

totally agree on the usc hypre.  leinart was one of those can't miss types.  how'd he work out?  i just hope they're careful about assessing darnold.

[Larz]

Mahomes and cook just gets you on the hampster wheel of mediocrity

Let it go fellas

It's a race to the bottom, it's obvious to me mutiple teams love next year's QB class

[Matt39]

Jarbril Peppers can return kicks FWIW. Don't believe either Jets guy does specials.

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Jarbril Peppers can return kicks FWIW. Don't believe either Jets guy does specials.

Peppers is looking like a young Troy Polumalu compared to the two JAGs Mac drafted

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Mahomes and cook just gets you on the hampster wheel of mediocrity

Let it go fellas

It's a race to the bottom, it's obvious to me mutiple teams love next year's QB class

Cook is any qb's best friend.  So dumb passing on him and Kizer for a freakin safety

[thadude]

5 hours ago, naturalscience said:

Our gm stinks. The last gm stinks. The gm before him stinks. Our next gm stinks. The gm after him stinks.

Yeah but Macagnan needs another 20 years to fix the problems caused by Idzik's 2014 draft

[Lupz27]

4 minutes ago, thadude said:

Cook is any qb's best friend.  So dumb passing on him and Kizer for a freakin safety

Kizer is horrendous, Cook I agree with.

[j4jets]

20 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Plenty of QBs are picked early and fail.  The board cried for P Lynch a year ago because Elway scouted him.  He sucks.  So how many shltty first round QBs win SBs?  You make it sound like all you need to do is draft a guy in the first and you're in.  Like Bortles.  Like RGIII?  Which S? Ed Reed, shltty QB and Reed won.  Ronnie Lott won.  

Theyre rebuilding, if you haven't gotten this it's on you.

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, j4jets said:

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

isn't rodney harrison in the hof?  he wasn't drafted by the patsies and was pretty good in san diego.  as for others, bob sanders made the manning superbowl team tick and ronnie lott did pretty well on the raiders.  so did ron woodson. i agree that safties shouldn't be drafted as safeties but that because the good ones are converted corners.

i agree that they needed to pick up another qb in this past years draft.  i don't necessarily agree that picking one higher than the fourth round would've been very smart given the overall weakness after trubitsky.  the thing is the jets what they are and we just have to see the season play out.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, j4jets said:

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

I need a reality check? Lol, read this nonsense.  You asked for a safety I gave you one and you pissed on bringing up other players on his team.  No shlt.  No one player wins a SB trophy for a team.  No matter th position.  There's your reality check

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

given the overall weakness after trubitsky.

Hear say non sense!

[BCJet]

6 hours ago, j4jets said:

Ed Reed? lol seriously? That D didn't happen to have 6-7 other pro bowlers did it? Idzik was crucified cuz he passed on Carr cuz he had Geno. Come to think of it, Macc has passed on several potentially good QBs cuz he had who exactly? Your rebuild starts with the QB unless you have the decades best D, which we obviously don't. We certainly are rebuilding, but how does that make it right? And yes, when you have chumps like Hack, you SHOULD draft a QB. WTF is Mac waiting for? A roster void of any offensive talent, in a rebuild, yet we have no QB worth a crap. Rebuild doesn't mean you ignore the QB, the most important position in the game. Safety? I'd rank that around 8th most important position on the D. On the D alone. And we draft two with our first picks while ignoring everything else. 

If you're going to tell me that we needed 2 safeties to help this rebuild above all positions, then you need a reality check. How many safeties are canton bound in the Pats dynasty? How about in all the games/SBs Mannings have won? Please bring up Ed Reed, one of the best safety to ever play the game, and tell me how many SB trophies he has lined up in his exhibition hall. Yeah, possibly the best safety in the league history. Anamoly? I don't think so. So please keep your nonsense to yourself and accept the fact Mac ****ed up two years in a row, which forced us to go into a complete rebuild mode. 

I wonder if Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas  helped Seattle win their SB, when Wilson was a young QB?  They were picked in the same draft.  Im also curious how safety can be the 8th most important position on the defense.  DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB - what are the 6th and 7th before you get to safety?

Im simply amazed that people are still ripping Mac for taking 2 players who by all accounts have had excellent camps, and were considered excellent values the way the draft fell, simply because of the position they play.  They arent punters or situational pass rushers or non-blocking tight ends, they play versatile, important, every down roles, in an area that was an enormous need for the team.  

Do you really think we should have trotted out Deshaun Watson with this group on offense, while also having Doug Middleton helping solidify the back end of our defense?

The FACT is that every young QB struggles, whether its peyton manning, pat mahomes or sam darnold.  Every single rookie QB needs a defense and strong team around him as they develop into NFL players.  Russel Wilson doesnt win a SB with out Lynch and that defense (again, solidified by 2 pro bowl safeties).  2 years ago Denver won a SB with a QB that couldnt throw over 12 yards, almost entirely due to their pass rush and secondary.  

The most amazing thing though about all these threads crying about watson, is that no one is critical of Macc for not taking Nathan Peterman in the middle rounds, or even signing Kyle Sloter who has looked excellent in Denver and was an UDFA.  Those are moves that should be debated, especially given how Peterman would fit in this offense.  Those are moves that could have helped bolster the position, overpaying for Deshaun Watson is not one of them.

[Jack Straw]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

isn't rodney harrison in the hof?  he wasn't drafted by the patsies and was pretty good in san diego.  as for others, bob sanders made the manning superbowl team tick and ronnie lott did pretty well on the raiders.  so did ron woodson. i agree that safties shouldn't be drafted as safeties but that because the good ones are converted corners.

i agree that they needed to pick up another qb in this past years draft.  i don't necessarily agree that picking one higher than the fourth round would've been very smart given the overall weakness after trubitsky.  the thing is the jets what they are and we just have to see the season play out.

Rodney Harrison was a 5th round pick. Bob Sanders was a 2nd round pick. Ronnie Lott was drafted 8th overall as a cornerback and moved to safety four years later. Ron Woodson was drafted 10th overall but played 10 years of CB before moving to safety.

We're consistently drafting safeties with 1st round picks and QBs with 2nd round picks and we can't figure out why we're well on our way to 10 years in a row of not making the playoffs.

[PepPep]

WAAAAAAY too early. 

These threads are silly.

Lets start with Cook: RBs have a short lifespan. If Cook end up being a stud (yet to be seen) but his career ends in 4 years (maybe due to injury, maybe wear and tear?) and the Jets don;t win anything in that time, while Maye is a stud (too soon to tell) for the next 8-10 years (too soon to tell). Then the choice is clearly Maye. Duh. But that's why these threads are so silly. And it gets even tougher when talking about QBs b/c they need the right coaching, weapons around them, time to develop, maybe system?, and O-line. So even if the Jets drafted one of those QBs, there is no reason to assume they would have developed the same way.  

So far, mainly b/c Maye and Adams have looked very solid, there is nothing to suggest that Maccshoudl have drafted Mahomes/Watson and Cook over Adams and Maye.    

[j4jets]

11 hours ago, rangerous said:

isn't rodney harrison in the hof?  he wasn't drafted by the patsies and was pretty good in san diego.  as for others, bob sanders made the manning superbowl team tick and ronnie lott did pretty well on the raiders.  so did ron woodson. i agree that safties shouldn't be drafted as safeties but that because the good ones are converted corners.

i agree that they needed to pick up another qb in this past years draft.  i don't necessarily agree that picking one higher than the fourth round would've been very smart given the overall weakness after trubitsky.  the thing is the jets what they are and we just have to see the season play out.

Never mentioned about not picking a safety higher than 4th round but when you have an immediate need at several higher rated positions, you don't draft a safety at #6. Especially in a rebuild year. And yes, we are what we are. Which is possibly the worst offense in decades. 

[dbatesman]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No one player wins a SB trophy for a team.  No matter th position.  There's your reality check

You tell 'em, Jet Nut.

[j4jets]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I need a reality check? Lol, read this nonsense.  You asked for a safety I gave you one and you pissed on bringing up other players on his team.  No shlt.  No one player wins a SB trophy for a team.  No matter th position.  There's your reality check

Would you like to bet that HOF and FHOF QBs have more SBs as oppose to safeties, even though there are two starting safeties?

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, j4jets said:

Would you like to bet that HOF and FHOF QBs have more SBs as oppose to safeties, even though there are two starting safeties?

Would you like to list all the shltty SB winning teams, the ones with mediocre lineups who have won SBs because of the QB. 

Ill bet you there are many more SBs who had good safeties on their roster than shltty sub .500 type rosters who were carried by their QB

Way to discect an argument with clear thought

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, j4jets said:

Never mentioned about not picking a safety higher than 4th round but when you have an immediate need at several higher rates positions, you don't draft a safety at #6. Especially in a rebuild year. And yes, we are what we are. Which is possibly the worst offense in a decades. 

i meant picking a qb in this year's draft in the 4th round given the relative strength of the draft. as for the safeties, the conventional route is to convert corners but obviously paying revis 16 million to try and be a safety wasn't going to be very smart.  i think the other part of this is that a number of teams did pick safeties in the upper rounds so for the jets to use the 6 pick wasn't such an anomaly.

[j4jets]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Would you like to list all the shltty SB winning teams, the ones with mediocre lineups who have won SBs because of the QB. 

Ill bet you there are many more SBs who had good safeties on their roster than shltty sub .500 type rosters who were carried by their QB

Way to discect an argument with clear thought

If you can't gasp the idea that QB is THE most important position on the field, then I'm afraid I can't help you. Please stop comparing a safety's value to a QBs value. Just trust me on that.

[RJIII]

On 8/20/2017 at 9:54 PM, Jet Nut said:

 No one was taking Mahomes at 6.  A month earlier he wasn't going in the first round.  Now fans have decided he worth it at 6.  

I told you from the get go he would go high in the draft and the Jets should take him at 6. 

[Gas2No99]

7 minutes ago, RJIII said:

I told you from the get go he would go high in the draft and the Jets should take him at 6. 

 

[Pointdexter]

Maybe I'm a tad old fashioned but I'm not sure what happened to ppl showing each other a little respect and decency.

Look, if you don't like the topic just move on to another. Posts like the above one offer no substance and debate, and only accomplishes degrading the thread into personal insults, which is odd since none of us actually know each other personally. 

Last I checked we are all dudes who like football and talking  all things Jets. Doesn't seem like a crazy thought to show one another some respect.  

[legler82]

On 8/21/2017 at 5:57 PM, rangerous said:

it's like the guys who say they can trade to get this guy or that.  the last two qb's worth anything were winston and mariota and there was simply no way tampa was going to trade out and neither were the titans.  maybe wentz but philly wasn't trading out either.

Philly traded up for Wentz.

[legler82]

On 8/22/2017 at 9:34 AM, BCJet said:

I wonder if Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas  helped Seattle win their SB, when Wilson was a young QB?  They were picked in the same draft.  Im also curious how safety can be the 8th most important position on the defense.  DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB - what are the 6th and 7th before you get to safety?

Im simply amazed that people are still ripping Mac for taking 2 players who by all accounts have had excellent camps, and were considered excellent values the way the draft fell, simply because of the position they play.  They arent punters or situational pass rushers or non-blocking tight ends, they play versatile, important, every down roles, in an area that was an enormous need for the team.  

Do you really think we should have trotted out Deshaun Watson with this group on offense, while also having Doug Middleton helping solidify the back end of our defense?

The FACT is that every young QB struggles, whether its peyton manning, pat mahomes or sam darnold.  Every single rookie QB needs a defense and strong team around him as they develop into NFL players.  Russel Wilson doesnt win a SB with out Lynch and that defense (again, solidified by 2 pro bowl safeties).  2 years ago Denver won a SB with a QB that couldnt throw over 12 yards, almost entirely due to their pass rush and secondary.  

The most amazing thing though about all these threads crying about watson, is that no one is critical of Macc for not taking Nathan Peterman in the middle rounds, or even signing Kyle Sloter who has looked excellent in Denver and was an UDFA.  Those are moves that should be debated, especially given how Peterman would fit in this offense.  Those are moves that could have helped bolster the position, overpaying for Deshaun Watson is not one of them.

You act like the draft was 2 players deep at safety.

[varjet]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:16 AM, Jack Straw said:

Rodney Harrison was a 5th round pick. Bob Sanders was a 2nd round pick. Ronnie Lott was drafted 8th overall as a cornerback and moved to safety four years later. Ron Woodson was drafted 10th overall but played 10 years of CB before moving to safety.

We're consistently drafting safeties with 1st round picks and QBs with 2nd round picks and we can't figure out why we're well on our way to 10 years in a row of not making the playoffs.

Based on what we have seen thus far, and I like Maye and Adams, but the Jets would be a more balanced team, today, if they have drafted a QB and S, rather than S and S.  Could have been Mahomes and Maye, or Adams and Kizer.  

They definitely needed a safety.

There were other safeties available later on-Johnson, Jackson, for starters.

Let's see how Pat Elflein ends up.

I just don't think Macc gets the team assembly thing.

 

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, RJIII said:

I told you from the get go he would go high in the draft and the Jets should take him at 6. 

You wanted him at 6. No GM was taking him at 6.  He's a project QB, they don't go at.  He moved because the Kizers etc had bad seasons,  it was a questionable year for QBs

[56mehl56]

13 hours ago, varjet said:

Based on what we have seen thus far, and I like Maye and Adams, but the Jets would be a more balanced team, today, if they have drafted a QB and S, rather than S and S.  Could have been Mahomes and Maye, or Adams and Kizer.  

They definitely needed a safety.

There were other safeties available later on-Johnson, Jackson, for starters.

Let's see how Pat Elflein ends up.

I just don't think Macc gets the team assembly thing.

 

More balanced for the future maybe, but in the short term it would not have made a difference at all in our immediate Qb dilemma.