The two safeties vs Watson/Mahomes and Cook

[Tinstar]

11 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

More balanced for the future maybe, but in the short term it would not have made a difference at all in our immediate Qb dilemma. 

It might not be worth it for the future either . A strong defense is what got quite a few teams their start on the way to their SB and consistent winning . 

[Lupz27]

35 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You wanted him at 6. No GM was taking him at 6.  He's a project QB, they don't go at.  He moved because the Kizers etc had bad seasons,  it was a questionable year for QBs

The NO GM is taking him at 6 is you just making sh*t up, if KC held the #6 pick simple logic says they would have taken Mahomes, but that doesn't fit your narrative.  And everyone in the know is stating that Mahomes isn't the project everyone assumed he was because they have stupid single minded thinking that air raid offense means can't play in NFL, let's just dismiss the kids once in a decade arm talent, and that can't get him by while he adjusts, and learns the NFL offense just like Favre did who didn't know what a Nickel defense was while he was slinging Touchdown passes all over the field, and leading his team to the playoffs while still learning how to understand the QB position in the NFL.

Also trust me Andy Reid doesn't make Mahomes QB 2 if he doesn't believe that Mahomes can go in and play at a moments notice if Alex Smith gets hurt, he keeps Bray as the #2.  You keep doubling down on this nonsense, and keep looking bad.  The 2017 QB draft class was only considered weak because people who are wrong, and single minded told you so in the media, and on ESPN, and NFL network yet contrary to their spewing nonsense 3 were taken in the top 12, AND teams traded up to get all 3, that doesn't tell me the NFL thought this class was bad, that tells me that there was plenty of guys in the league that thought these guys were more then developmental prospects considering all the hoopla about 2018 draft class, and A LOT of teams who don't get lucky, and land Darnold that needed QB's, and passed on one like the Jets in 2017 are gonna have egg on there face!

[Beerfish]

Well regardless of the whole QB vs safety thing if Adams does not end up being Ed Reed or at the very very least Landon Collins then the pick was an atrocious joke.

[Lupz27]

14 hours ago, varjet said:

Based on what we have seen thus far, and I like Maye and Adams, but the Jets would be a more balanced team, today, if they have drafted a QB and S, rather than S and S.  Could have been Mahomes and Maye, or Adams and Kizer.  

They definitely needed a safety.

There were other safeties available later on-Johnson, Jackson, for starters.

Let's see how Pat Elflein ends up.

I just don't think Macc gets the team assembly thing.

 

Eddie Jackson looks good, great find in the 4th round, same for Dede Westbrook, Jets could have went Mahomes, Cook, Jackson, Westbrook, with their first 4 picks, and came away with a Franchise QB, Game changing RB, decent Safety, AND punt returner, and a take the top off the defense threat to get 6 from a QB with the arm he can't out run, and the excitement around here even with not much expectations to make the playoffs the first year would be SO MUCH higher, and there would be a product on the field this year that would put fannies in the seats, and extremely fun to watch, and I don't think I'm asking much of a GM to make those decisions on draft night the way the roster was constructed, tell your HC to **** off with his inbred to interchangeable Safeties to make my useless defensive scheme work!

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well regardless of the whole QB vs safety thing if Adams does not end up being Ed Reed or at the very very least Landon Collins then the pick was an atrocious joke.

Even if he does, and Mahomes, and Watson both become franchise QB's it's an atrocious joke.

[legler82]

15 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Eddie Jackson looks good, great find in the 4th round, same for Dede Westbrook, Jets could have went Mahomes, Cook, Jackson, Westbrook, with their first 4 picks, and came away with a Franchise QB, Game changing RB, decent Safety, AND punt returner, and a take the top off the defense threat to get 6 from a QB with the arm he can't out run, and the excitement around here even with not much expectations to make the playoffs the first year would be SO MUCH higher, and there would be a product on the field this year that would put fannies in the seats, and extremely fun to watch, and I don't think I'm asking much of a GM to make those decisions on draft night the way the roster was constructed, tell your HC to **** off with his inbred to interchangeable Safeties to make my useless defensive scheme work!

I personally liked John Johnson out of BC.

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I personally liked John Johnson out of BC.

He was available when the Jets pick came up in the 4th that they traded away for no reason so you could have had him also with the other 4 so Bowles has his 2 safeties he wanted.

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Eddie Jackson looks good, great find in the 4th round, same for Dede Westbrook, Jets could have went Mahomes, Cook, Jackson, Westbrook, with their first 4 picks, and came away with a Franchise QB, Game changing RB, decent Safety, AND punt returner, and a take the top off the defense threat to get 6 from a QB with the arm he can't out run, and the excitement around here even with not much expectations to make the playoffs the first year would be SO MUCH higher, and there would be a product on the field this year that would put fannies in the seats, and extremely fun to watch, and I don't think I'm asking much of a GM to make those decisions on draft night the way the roster was constructed, tell your HC to **** off with his inbred to interchangeable Safeties to make my useless defensive scheme work!

All I read around here is a bunch of fans crying because the Jets didn't pick the payer they liked .  The Jets took the consensus 2nd best player in the draft on most boards and a player some thought was the best . They surprised many by taking yet another safety at the top of the 2nd round, but reading this board lately folks are beginning to like the pick .  If by some luck Hackenberg turns into a QB, the same way this fan base now talks about the 2nd round pick they will start to feel about Hack after beating him into the ground all year . 

Jet fans hating Jet players and pinning for players we have to beat up . gotten to the point where you can't tell who's a friend or a foe .

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

All I read around here is a bunch of fans crying because the Jets didn't pick the payer they liked .  The Jets took the consensus 2nd best player in the draft on most boards and a player some thought was the best . They surprised many by taking yet another safety at the top of the 2nd round, but reading this board lately folks are beginning to like the pick .  If by some luck Hackenberg turns into a QB, the same way this fan base now talks about the 2nd round pick they will start to feel about Hack after beating him into the ground all year . 

Jet fans hating Jet players and pinning for players we have to beat up . gotten to the point where you can't tell who's a friend or a foe .

No this is about the GM, and HC putting together possibly the worst roster in football the last 3 years, when 3 years ago the Jets had plenty of picks, and a boatload of money.  And now we will be in that exact same place again next season, those 2 shouldn't get a 2nd crack at building it up after the Cracker Jack job they did the last 3 years.

[56mehl56]

34 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well regardless of the whole QB vs safety thing if Adams does not end up being Ed Reed or at the very very least Landon Collins then the pick was an atrocious joke.

Disagree completely, if Adams just becomes a solid starter for 7-10 years. There are tons of 1st round picks that are complete busts, so to say that he has to be compared to a future HOF safety or a young promising star is foolish.

[legler82]

It's somewhat unprecedented to draft 2 safeties with your first 2 picks, but to then hand them both the starting spots without any competition is alarming.  From the looks of it they probably would have won both jobs outright anyway, but I don't think that's the way you want to start the "rebuild".  I like Seattle's approach breeding competition at all position regardless of where you are drafted.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, legler82 said:

It's somewhat unprecedented to draft 2 safeties with your first 2 picks, but to then hand them both the starting spots without any competition is alarming.  From the looks of it they probably would have won both jobs outright anyway, but I don't think that's the way you want to start the "rebuild".  I like Seattle's approach breeding competition at all position regardless of where you are drafted.

Who did you want to compete with them??  - Calvin Pryor who the board would have given away for free, Doug Middleton, Rontez Miles or did you you want them to draft 2 safeties and sign 1 in FA .

Our safeties last year were horrible , I don't get the bashing if we get two good to great players from this

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

No this is about the GM, and HC putting together possibly the worst roster in football the last 3 years, when 3 years ago the Jets had plenty of picks, and a boatload of money.  And now we will be in that exact same place again next season, those 2 shouldn't get a 2nd crack at building it up after the Cracker Jack job they did the last 3 years.

Woody Johnson and his brother will decide what happens to Todd Bowles and Mike Macagnan  .  Until that happens, I being a fan of the jet will support this team .  See, the election is over and the president is in place, so for the good of the team we support the team . Exactly what is gained by a fan of a team to consistently beat the members of the team he cheers for into the ground between Monday and Saturday then bellyache on Sunday night when what you thought was going to happen comes to fruition .

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Disagree completely, if Adams just becomes a solid starter for 7-10 years. There are tons of 1st round picks that are complete busts, so to say that he has to be compared to a future HOF safety or a young promising star is foolish.

Isn't comparing your first round picks to "complete busts" just as foolish if not worse?  I say it all the time, a lot Jets fans have BWS (Battered Wife Syndrome); they don't feel they deserve better.  Hey guys we are allowed to have nice things too.

Jet fan:  "Man, I can't believe we passed on [insert prospect name]; he had the making of a future FQB"

BWS Jets fan:  "We did the right thing.  It's good [insert prospect name] went [insert team name], they know how to develop a QB.  We would ruin him." 

 

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Disagree completely, if Adams just becomes a solid starter for 7-10 years. There are tons of 1st round picks that are complete busts, so to say that he has to be compared to a future HOF safety or a young promising star is foolish.

You don't draft a frickin safety 6th overall when you have holes all over the place to be a solid starter.  No QB, no oline, no offensive weapon, no outside pass rusher, no #1 CB.

Safety at #6 in a draft with a lot of safeties, if the guy is not a pro bowler it was a stupid pick.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, legler82 said:

Isn't comparing your first round picks to "complete busts" just as foolish if not worse?  I say it all the time, a lot Jets fans have BWS (Battered Wife Syndrome); they don't feel they deserve better.  Hey guys we are allowed to have nice things too.

Jet fan:  "Man, I can't believe we passed on [insert prospect name]; he had the making of a future FQB"

BWS Jets fan:  "We did the right thing.  It's good [insert prospect name] went [insert team name], they know how to develop a QB.  We would ruin him." 

 

But Jet fans feel we are the only team who misses on draft picks. Look at the Patriots drafts over the past decade , there have been lots of swings and misses there. Bottom line everyone is killing Mac right now when its still to be determined how well of a drafter he really is.

The problem is  with the advent of fantasy football most fans think they can be GM's and do better jobs then the 32 people in the US who hold the job title GM of an NFL football team.

I'm not saying they are infallible or never mess up on the contrary I say most of them have misses and the draft is more of an educated crapshoot.

[legler82]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Who did you want to compete with them??  - Calvin Pryor who the board would have given away for free, Doug Middleton, Rontez Miles or did you you want them to draft 2 safeties and sign 1 in FA .

Our safeties last year were horrible , I don't get the bashing if we get two good to great players from this

Yes, maybe bring in a FA.  Have an open competition with the returning safeties.  It seems like they were anointed at minicamp.  I just prefer guys earning their starting positions.  Like I said, they probably would have anyway.

How is that "bashing"?  

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

You don't draft a frickin safety 6th overall when you have holes all over the place to be a solid starter.  No QB, no oline, no offensive weapon, no outside pass rusher, no #1 CB.

Safety at #6 in a draft with a lot of safeties, if the guy is not a pro bowler it was a stupid pick.

I agree but by all accounts they feel this kid can QB this defense for a long time, so its worth the risk even if he just becomes a solid starter.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Yes, maybe bring in a FA.  Have an open competition with the returning safeties.  It seems like they were anointed at minicamp.  I just prefer guys earning their starting positions.  Like I said, they probably would have anyway.

How is that "bashing"?  

So everyone is complaining that we drafted safeties 1 and 2 , what do you think everyone would say if we also spent money on a FA at safety.  Competition is good , but you need guys who can compete to make it work. Starting Rontez MIles or Doug Middleton is blocking the path of Adams and Maye just like starting McCown is blocking the path to our young QB's . If we were one of two players away form a complete team I can see your point , this team is starting over and focusing on youth.

[legler82]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

But Jet fans feel we are the only team who misses on draft picks. Look at the Patriots drafts over the past decade , there have been lots of swings and misses there. Bottom line everyone is killing Mac right now when its still to be determined how well of a drafter he really is.

The problem is  with the advent of fantasy football most fans think they can be GM's and do better jobs then the 32 people in the US who hold the job title GM of an NFL football team.

I'm not saying they are infallible or never mess up on the contrary I say most of them have misses and the draft is more of an educated crapshoot.

Don't know about everyone else but I'm not killing Mac.  If you want to know what my killing of a GM I can go find my posts on Idzik.  And not just those in hindsight but my posts to multiple sites his FIRST draft as it was going on.  

My concerns with Mac is that has been OK.  OK is not good enough especially when the coach is not very good.  He certainly can do better; hopefully he will going forward.

[legler82]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So everyone is complaining that we drafted safeties 1 and 2 , what do you think everyone would say if we also spent money on a FA at safety.  Competition is good , but you need guys who can compete to make it work. Starting Rontez MIles or Doug Middleton is blocking the path of Adams and Maye just like starting McCown is blocking the path to our young QB's . If we were one of two players away form a complete team I can see your point , this team is starting over and focusing on youth.

Starting Rontez Miles or Doug Middleton <> Compete against Rontez Miles or Doug Middleton

[legler82]

Can't believe we have people upset or surprised that the GM of 3 years responsible for what many are calling worst roster in football whose potential starting QB is ranked 34th out of 32 starters is receiving some criticism.  What would be upsetting or surprising IMO is if he didn't get any criticism.

[Matt39]

18 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But Jet fans feel we are the only team who misses on draft picks. Look at the Patriots drafts over the past decade , there have been lots of swings and misses there. Bottom line everyone is killing Mac right now when its still to be determined how well of a drafter he really is.

The problem is  with the advent of fantasy football most fans think they can be GM's and do better jobs then the 32 people in the US who hold the job title GM of an NFL football team.

I'm not saying they are infallible or never mess up on the contrary I say most of them have misses and the draft is more of an educated crapshoot.

Every team misses. The issue the Jets have even their hits are at positions of limited significance. They havent hit on a QB or pass rusher basically ever. Their last blue chip player they selected was Revis 10 years ago and Brick the year before that(cough Mangini). 

[Tinstar]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Every team misses. The issue the Jets have even their hits are at positions of limited significance. They havent hit on a QB or pass rusher basically ever. Their last blue chip player they selected was Revis 10 years ago and Brick the year before that(cough Mangini). 

If Brick was a blue chip player, exactly what is Joe Thomas ?

[Beerfish]

Well the issue with the Jets and our management ans coaches is that like ground hog day they always have a bit of early success and delude themselves into thinking the roster is close to doing something this despite some clears signs that is not the case.  Thus year one surprise, year two failure year three some kind of rebuild.

 

For me the most damaging year to this franchise was REx's 8-8 year.  The team was bad and the coaching was bad.  They won two really lucky last second games that were given to them.  Go beat very soundly in all of their loses and gave up and ungodly number of big plays.  The team was on the down swing, the coach was seriously on the down swing and instead of realizing this it was another, hey we are 8-8 we are close to the playoffs!

[ZachEY]

25 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But Jet fans feel we are the only team who misses on draft picks. Look at the Patriots drafts over the past decade , there have been lots of swings and misses there. Bottom line everyone is killing Mac right now when its still to be determined how well of a drafter he really is.

The problem is  with the advent of fantasy football most fans think they can be GM's and do better jobs then the 32 people in the US who hold the job title GM of an NFL football team.

I'm not saying they are infallible or never mess up on the contrary I say most of them have misses and the draft is more of an educated crapshoot.

I'm not one of those deluded fans who thinks he can do better than everyone out there with the jobs.  However, 3 years into Maccagnan's tenure, the Jets appear to have the NFL's worst roster with no sign of a QB, nor much in the way of talent at the leagues most important positions.  I'm pretty sure that most of us could on this site could also have accomplished that feat. 

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

If Brick was a blue chip player, exactly what is Joe Thomas ?

Thomas is probably the only blue chip player Cleveland has drafted over the last 15 years

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Every team misses. The issue the Jets have even their hits are at positions of limited significance. They havent hit on a QB or pass rusher basically ever. Their last blue chip player they selected was Revis 10 years ago and Brick the year before that(cough Mangini). 

This is it. Even putting aside Brady, the Patriots drafted the greatest TE of all time in the second round, find wideouts and defensive backs all over the draft, and pick a starting-caliber OL basically every year. Steelers do the same with linebackers and pass-catchers, Packers with WRs, Seahawks basically anywhere on defense. The guys we're taking basically have to be the best in the league to justify where we're picking them.

[Greensince69]

For all those that just cry for a qb here is the list of 1str round qbs in the last 10 years

 

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well the issue with the Jets and our management ans coaches is that like ground hog day they always have a bit of early success and delude themselves into thinking the roster is close to doing something this despite some clears signs that is not the case.  Thus year one surprise, year two failure year three some kind of rebuild.

 

For me the most damaging year to this franchise was REx's 8-8 year.  The team was bad and the coaching was bad.  They won two really lucky last second games that were given to them.  Go beat very soundly in all of their loses and gave up and ungodly number of big plays.  The team was on the down swing, the coach was seriously on the down swing and instead of realizing this it was another, hey we are 8-8 we are close to the playoffs!

I agree with every thing except the shot at Rex.  Even if you take away those 2 as you say lucky wins, that's still 6 wins out of a team that coincidentally was also ranked the worst team and roster that preseason.  That was probably his best coaching job.  If Bowles pulls 6 wins out of his ass this year, lucky or not, he keeps his job.

[Stark]

6 minutes ago, Greensince69 said:

For all those that just cry for a qb here is the list of 1str round qbs in the last 10 years

 

and of the players you have highlighted we were not in a draft position to take them, except Flacco. 

[Stark]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I agree with every thing except the shot at Rex.  Even if you take away those 2 as you say lucky wins, that's still 6 wins out of a team that coincidentally was also ranked the worst team and roster that preseason.  That was probably his best coaching job.  If Bowles pulls 6 wins out of his ass this year, lucky or not, he keeps his job.

Give me Rex over Bowles based on what Bowles has shown. Bowles could surprise me this year but I doubt it.

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I agree with every thing except the shot at Rex.  Even if you take away those 2 as you say lucky wins, that's still 6 wins out of a team that coincidentally was also ranked the worst team and roster that preseason.  That was probably his best coaching job.  If Bowles pulls 6 wins out of his ass this year, lucky or not, he keeps his job.

Could not disagree any more, the team got destroyed in all of their losses and his precious defense was pure awful, perhaps I will have to dig out the the list of big play scores the D gave up that year, it is somewhere in my desk.

I've heard this 'it was his best coaching job' thing before by the media, I totally disagree with it 100%

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

Isn't comparing your first round picks to "complete busts" just as foolish if not worse?  I say it all the time, a lot Jets fans have BWS (Battered Wife Syndrome); they don't feel they deserve better.  Hey guys we are allowed to have nice things too.

Jet fan:  "Man, I can't believe we passed on [insert prospect name]; he had the making of a future FQB"

BWS Jets fan:  "We did the right thing.  It's good [insert prospect name] went [insert team name], they know how to develop a QB.  We would ruin him." 

 

That you expect to cry over a missed QB whomshould have gone 6th is what too many died when we passed on Lynch.  A year later it's not like last year when the pro Lynch fans blamed Macc for passing on a franchise QB and used the idea the Elway, how was given a pass on being a great QB expert because he was a good.  QB, how could he not know more than Macc.  So he wasted picks to move up for a QB Macc didn't like enough to pick.  Haven read on post where anyone has said Macc knew more than Elway with Lynch. 

You cant blame him for not drafting a franchise QB when there hasn't been one that he's passed on

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

The NO GM is taking him at 6 is you just making sh*t up, if KC held the #6 pick simple logic says they would have taken Mahomes, but that doesn't fit your narrative.  And everyone in the know is stating that Mahomes isn't the project everyone assumed he was because they have stupid single minded thinking that air raid offense means can't play in NFL, let's just dismiss the kids once in a decade arm talent, and that can't get him by while he adjusts, and learns the NFL offense just like Favre did who didn't know what a Nickel defense was while he was slinging Touchdown passes all over the field, and leading his team to the playoffs while still learning how to understand the QB position in the NFL.

Also trust me Andy Reid doesn't make Mahomes QB 2 if he doesn't believe that Mahomes can go in and play at a moments notice if Alex Smith gets hurt, he keeps Bray as the #2.  You keep doubling down on this nonsense, and keep looking bad.  The 2017 QB draft class was only considered weak because people who are wrong, and single minded told you so in the media, and on ESPN, and NFL network yet contrary to their spewing nonsense 3 were taken in the top 12, AND teams traded up to get all 3, that doesn't tell me the NFL thought this class was bad, that tells me that there was plenty of guys in the league that thought these guys were more then developmental prospects considering all the hoopla about 2018 draft class, and A LOT of teams who don't get lucky, and land Darnold that needed QB's, and passed on one like the Jets in 2017 are gonna have egg on there face!

Making sh*t up?  No one would have or did pick him 6 or earlier.  If he was a franchise, can't miss QB he would have.  

Hes not close to a once in a lifetime arm, you're the one making shlt up.  He has an arm, so does Petty, so does Hack, so does Lynch, so does Jones. All means squat when a weak armed QB like Montanta, Young or Matt Ice would be dream QB comparisons.

love that you find it nonsense that he's number three, hasn't started a preseason game while you derail another thread with your Mahomes nonsense.  Three were taken because of desperation, none of these 3 get selected as high as they were if there was an average draft class for QBs