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The two safeties vs Watson/Mahomes and Cook


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Just now, bealeb319 said:

 


And the point in bring in any qb to play behind our current offensive line with the weapons we have availible right now would be what? We can't fix the entire offense at this point we might as well see who is worth making part of our rebuild at least that is productive.

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So basically a PROFESSIONAL PERSONNEL EVALUATOR gets a pass because picking a good QB would be futile. I wish you were my boss!

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So basically a PROFESSIONAL PERSONNEL EVALUATOR gets a pass because picking a good QB would be futile. I wish you were my boss!


No one should get a pass. If there is another young kid available who they think they could develop that would be the right option. Taking a washed up bum and putting him behind a bad oline with no receivers to throw to is just silly.

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Just now, bealeb319 said:

 


No one should get a pass. If there is another young kid available who they think they could develop that would be the right option. Taking a washed up bum and putting him behind a bad oline with no receivers to throw to is just silly.

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Again, it's his job to find something other than a washed up bum. It's called a draft. So go and do well in it or go flip burgers. Macc failed. Send him to Denny's.

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Again, it's his job to find something other than a washed up bum. It's called a draft. So go and do well in it or go flip burgers. Macc failed. Send him to Denny's.


Mac got some pretty decent players. Yea he had two first round picks basically fall into his lap but he has found us some gems in the later rounds. He also had done a decent job in bringing in productive players for cheap. Fitz did a great job with us his first season we all know with hindsight we should have let him walk after that but we were close to the playoffs for a late pick. Brandon marshal for a 5th was great value. I feel like you are trying to blame the wrong person for our failures the coaching staff is who I believe you should be upset with.

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1 minute ago, bealeb319 said:

 


Mac got some pretty decent players. Yea he had two first round picks basically fall into his lap but he has found us some gems in the later rounds. He also had done a decent job in bringing in productive players for cheap. Fitz did a great job with us his first season we all know with hindsight we should have let him walk after that but we were close to the playoffs for a late pick. Brandon marshal for a 5th was great value. I feel like you are trying to blame the wrong person for our failures the coaching staff is who I believe you should be upset with.

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He shouldn't have let Fitz walk. But it's clear his backup plan was doo doo. That's just not excusable. 

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He shouldn't have let Fitz walk. But it's clear his backup plan was doo doo. That's just not excusable. 

His backup plan was to use geno as a backup and develop petty and hack. Before geno got his jaw broken fitz wasn't in the picture and geno was going to start while we develop petty so having your clear cut winner as a backup while a guy who almost brought us to the playoffs after a fantastic season while you develop two young kids with upside is a bad plan?

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3 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:


His backup plan was to use geno as a backup and develop petty and hack. Before geno got his jaw broken fitz wasn't in the picture and geno was going to start while we develop petty so having your clear cut winner as a backup while a guy who almost brought us to the playoffs after a fantastic season while you develop two young kids with upside is a bad plan?

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And rebuttal including the word "Geno" gets an auto Butt Fumble. Sorry mate, site rules. Welcome to JN.

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1 minute ago, bealeb319 said:

 


Been here awhile now I would ask what the other options were but I already know I won't get a plausible answer.

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You're treating this like a debate. It isn't about what I would do. Who am I? A nobody fan. When the professional personnel evaluation people fail at personnel evaluation, they gotz ta go. Period end of story.

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You're treating this like a debate. It isn't about what I would do. Who am I? A nobody fan. When the professional personnel evaluation people fail at personnel evaluation, they gotz ta go. Period end of story.


It's not about what you would do but the thing is there were no real options that made sense. Teams either have good qbs fall in their lap in the draft or they take a wild swing and get super lucky and hit on one but when they miss they look foolish. If a team thinks a guy like Russel Wilson or dak prescot could be a viable starter they would be drafted in round 1 because it is the most important position on the field. When a team gets a guy who can play well at the position they don't get rid of them.

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3 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

 


It's not about what you would do but the thing is there were no real options that made sense. Teams either have good qbs fall in their lap in the draft or they take a wild swing and get super lucky and hit on one but when they miss they look foolish. If a team thinks a guy like Russel Wilson or dak prescot could be a viable starter they would be drafted in round 1 because it is the most important position on the field. When a team gets a guy who can play well at the position they don't get rid of them.

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Imagine you're CFO of a major corporation and you've just been promoted to CEO. You know absolutely nothing about Operations but every team meeting your Head of Operations is telling you the assembly line is still down due to a rash of new problems each week. Do you defer to his expertise or can him and bring in someone else?

You don't have to be an expert to spot failure.

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Imagine you're CFO of a major corporation and you've just been promoted to CEO. You know absolutely nothing about Operations but every team meeting your Head of Operations is telling you the assembly line is still down due to a rash of new problems each week. Do you defer to his expertise or can him and bring in someone else?
You don't have to be an expert to spot failure.

You are comparing Apple's to oranges. A football team has many parts our team has tons of broken parts when macc inherited the team if you are comparing the jets to a machine then we had too many broken parts to fix in a year and some of those parts had been on backorder. It wouldn't matter who you bring in to fix the machine because without at least the ability to duct tape the parts together the machine will not be able to function

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3 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:


You are comparing Apple's to oranges. A football team has many parts our team has tons of broken parts when macc inherited the team if you are comparing the jets to a machine then we had too many broken parts to fix in a year and some of those parts had been on backorder. It wouldn't matter who you bring in to fix the machine because without at least the ability to duct tape the parts together the machine will not be able to function

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No, what I am doing is pointing out that ultimately we are all responsible for competence and results in our areas of expertise. If you don't deliver, you gotta go. And likely it will be a non-expert (in your field) making that decision. You claim you are an expert, then you need to show you can deliver results better than a non-expert. Show me where Macc has done that, please.

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No, what I am doing is pointing out that ultimately we are all responsible for competence and results in our areas of expertise. If you don't deliver, you gotta go. And likely it will be a non-expert (in your field) making that decision. You claim you are an expert, then you need to show you can deliver results better than a non-expert. Show me where Macc has done that, please.


He has brought in some decent players in the draft and made some good trades. I love the current staff he has brought in but we will have to wait to see how they actually do. He did not get to choose his own coach which is a lesson maybe we should have learned with idzik. Yea he made a few bad moves too but I believe right now he has a plan to tank and I honestly believe in the long run it will make our team a whole lot better. I would not be surprised if macc is our gm next season and bowles who is the coach I wanted at the time is looking for a new job.

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Sorry buddy we aren't bragging about our kids here you gotta get specific. What moves and what trades?


Drafting Leonard Williams even though we had 2 all pro caliper defensive ends and passing on Kevin white even though we needed a receiver = good move. Trading a fifth round pick for Brandon marshal = good move. Bringing in fitz for a late pick because he has a history with your offensive coordinator to replace your starter who is out with a broken jaw = good. Overpaying to bring the guy back and allowing your players to put on a show about how bad they wanted the guy back = bad. Bringing back revis = both good and bad yea he sucked but he was a position of need future hall of fame player and we took him away from our divisional rivals. Drafting Marcus maye after taking Jamal Adams we can't really say yet but it is looking like it could be on the good side and if nothing else it shows that he is willing to stick to his bpa approach. Idk maybe I like macc because I was not expecting him to take a crap team and win a Superbowl with it in two years.

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5 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

 


Drafting Leonard Williams even though we had 2 all pro caliper defensive ends and passing on Kevin white even though we needed a receiver = good move. Trading a fifth round pick for Brandon marshal = good move. Bringing in fitz for a late pick because he has a history with your offensive coordinator to replace your starter who is out with a broken jaw = good. Overpaying to bring the guy back and allowing your players to put on a show about how bad they wanted the guy back = bad. Bringing back revis = both good and bad yea he sucked but he was a position of need future hall of fame player and we took him away from our divisional rivals. Drafting Marcus maye after taking Jamal Adams we can't really say yet but it is looking like it could be on the good side and if nothing else it shows that he is willing to stick to his bpa approach. Idk maybe I like macc because I was not expecting him to take a crap team and win a Superbowl with it in two years.

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Draft Williams... sorry can't give someone credit for taking top consensus player who by incompetence of those picking ahead of us fell to us. Brandon Marshall I will grant. Fitz year one was good, although he was on team before Geno's idiocy landed him on his back. 

Revis was a win-now move, which Macc clearly in hindsight called wrongly, so gotta give him a negative on that one. 

Maye and Adams agree can't say anything. 

Too tired to get into the list of QBs he passed on. He very well may go down as the GM who passed on Dak Prescott, as unfair as that is, but that's the way the world works when you're a self-proclaimed expert at something.

Thanks for responding, I appreciate it. You made some good points, nevertheless the bad moves made by him here are just embarrassing.

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Draft Williams... sorry can't give someone credit for taking top consensus player who by incompetence of those picking ahead of us fell to us. Brandon Marshall I will grant. Fitz year one was good, although he was on team before Geno's idiocy landed him on his back. 
Revis was a win-now move, which Macc clearly in hindsight called wrongly, so gotta give him a negative on that one. 
Maye and Adams agree can't say anything. 
Too tired to get into the list of QBs he passed on. He very well may go down as the GM who passed on Dak Prescott, as unfair as that is, but that's the way the world works when you're a self-proclaimed expert at something.
Thanks for responding, I appreciate it. You made some good points, nevertheless the bad moves made by him here are just embarrassing.

Are you kidding. 32 gms will go down as the ones that passed on dak 3 times. Cowboys took a swing on him and hit they also tried to trade up and take Paxton lynch which should tell any genious how highly they thought of the kid and his ability to start in the nfl. There aren't many examples of qbs we really missed on the worst case scenario is lynch mahonmes of Watson turn into studs then we can say he whiffed other qbs who are better than the guys we have either shocked the world or were out of our reach

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4 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:


Are you kidding. 32 gms will go down as the ones that passed on dak 3 times. Cowboys took a swing on him and hit they also tried to trade up and take Paxton lynch which should tell any genious how highly they thought of the kid and his ability to start in the nfl. There aren't many examples of qbs we really missed on the worst case scenario is lynch mahonmes of Watson turn into studs then we can say he whiffed other qbs who are better than the guys we have either shocked the world or were out of our reach

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I'm not kidding. Jets have been searching for The One for 40 years. When Macc eventually flames out spectacularly, passing on Dak will be written on his Jet Nation tombstone. Again, as I've said not fair, but that's how it will be for him unless he finds the guy (assuming he gets another chance next year).

And by the way, Woody craves and caves to public attention... after going 1-15 he very well might ice the entire FO. Actually having #1 pick probably only chance a second-rate franchise like the Jets ever has to bring in a Cowher or Harbaugh or Gruden so they can get "their guy" and make a run at it. If we have the top pick and DON'T parlay it into a big time hire, well that would be a huge wasted opportunity.

That being said as I've predicted for months, Bowles "beats" the rolled up Pats on week 17 to try to save his job and costs us the top pick. Belichick actually seen smiling after the game.

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The issue is this team will most likely get a high pick and will draft a good looking franchise QB prospect and have NOTHING for him to work with.  This kind of smacks of the The David Carr thing which mac may also been a part of.  It is really tough to build an oline via fa. 

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

The issue is this team will most likely get a high pick and will draft a good looking franchise QB prospect and have NOTHING for him to work with.  This kind of smacks of the The David Carr thing which mac may also been a part of.  It is really tough to build an oline via fa. 

You're probably right but in all circumstances it's better to have a QB than to not. It's like having a baby. No one is every truly ready. You could always make a case to waiting until you get that promotion or finish the kitchen remodel... but once the baby is on it's way, everyone finds a way to make it happen. If we have a crack at a franchise QB, who cares about anything else you take it. Good QBs make good things happen even to bad teams.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

The issue is this team will most likely get a high pick and will draft a good looking franchise QB prospect and have NOTHING for him to work with.  This kind of smacks of the The David Carr thing which mac may also been a part of.  It is really tough to build an oline via fa. 

Do you realize there's a lot of $ to spend next year , between that and the draft they can overhaul the O in virtually one season - sort of like the Giants did to their D 

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1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you realize there's a lot of $ to spend next year , between that and the draft they can overhaul the O in virtually one season - sort of like the Giants did to their D 

Trusting the Jets to spend money wisely is like trusting your Ferrari to the parking garage attendant.

 

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you realize there's a lot of $ to spend next year , between that and the draft they can overhaul the O in virtually one season - sort of like the Giants did to their D 

We will have no 1st rounder to spend on an olineman.,

As i said in my previous post success at building oline via fa is often a big fat fail.  Teams with good loineman lock them up and the guys that hit fa are the guys like we signed this year.  (beachum) over priiedand with huge ????

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/27/2017 at 3:24 PM, Beerfish said:

We will have no 1st rounder to spend on an olineman.,

As i said in my previous post success at building oline via fa is often a big fat fail.  Teams with good loineman lock them up and the guys that hit fa are the guys like we signed this year.  (beachum) over priiedand with huge ????

This is a huge concern of mine. I wonder if barring a really surprising development with the OL you almost have to sit whatever QB you draft for a year while trying to piece a line together.

Granted the OL class last draft was really poor but at least giving it some attention would've been good. At least they can devote some attention to it in next year's class, especially with the extra 2, but I'm not sure where the LT is coming from and there's really no developmental guys in house to hope you get lucky with either.

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I wanted Watson instead of Adams. I can see why they took Adams instead but I cannot excuse them taking Mayes instead of Cook/Mixon. I also cannot excuse trading down in third round when the much needed OL was there that the Vikings took. IF you are going to rebuild and not take a QB you had the tools there to help a young QB(be it Petty or Hack-off) develop. Why the hell do you pass on an RB who could take some of the heat off of that developing QB and then pass on an OL who could help as well? It just makes no sense to make the moves Macc made. This is why those who defend him HAVE NO LEG TO STAND ON. They tout that this a rebuild but then defend a GM who completely botched this draft in the middle rounds to load up on later round picks. Has to be the dumbest friggin move I have ever seen a GM make and I have been watching this game since the middle 60's. Macc is good at structuring contracts but after that he is a total fu#k up at everything else. They could have still gotten that high draft pick but developed in other area's and gotten those guys they should have drafted invaluable experience at the pro level. Now you are going to have that high draft pick and whomever they draft will come in and be basically thrown to the wolves because of Macc's shortsightedness and complete lack of any semblance of a plan. What a complete and total cock-up this past off-season was. Now we are left with this mess of a roster and next season instead of having a solid foundation to build on Macc will probably draft an offensive skill player then use up all that cap space on a 200 mil QB and a bunch of guys he will overpay to come to this mess he made of this franchise. Friggin typical man just typical.

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Deshone Kizer in round 2 was the biggest obvious no-brainer pick ever.  And we should have never, ever picked Jamal Adams at 6 overall we would have been way better off with Cam Robinson who manhandled JJ Watt and is destroying it as a starting franchise Left Tackle

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I wonder how many weeks it's going to take people hearing: "It wasn't about Watson/Mahomes vs Adams, it was Watson/Mahomes vs any QB in the next 4-5 drafts." before people actually get it through their heads.  If the season ends the way it's looking like it will end, we will have our choice of 3-4 QBs, possibly more, who are infinitely better prospects than  one of those guys.  There are a large number of reasons to complain about this regime.  Believe me, I know that.  However, electing to pass on a weak QB prospect from a weak QB class, in favor of a strong QB prospect in a strong QB class is one of the few things they've gotten right so far. I could be wrong about Watson and Mahomes; I know that.  They might actually be the answer for their respective teams.  Personally, I just didn't see the gamble being worth it when, for the sake of sports politics, they still "needed" to see what Hack had, and they figured to be in a good position to draft a top QB next year.  If you were going to be in that position, barring a miracle, take that gamble on QB prospects who were blue chips, not guys who were considered a 2nd round pick and 4th-5th round pick in any other class but we're raised because the class they entered was weak.

Passing on Cook still pisses me off, but Elijah McGuire looked decent in his limited moment of extended action this pre-season and running backs are a dime a dozen in today's league.  The best RBs we've had in the last 10 years were FA/Trade pick ups and they were beyond adequate.  Hell, the guy we sent to Canton wasn't drafted by us, during a time period where RB was valued far higher than it is today.  I loved Cook, wanted him badly, but he's a RB.  Passing on him is not the end of the world.

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