The two safeties vs Watson/Mahomes and Cook

[56mehl56]

28 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm not one of those deluded fans who thinks he can do better than everyone out there with the jobs.  However, 3 years into Maccagnan's tenure, the Jets appear to have the NFL's worst roster with no sign of a QB, nor much in the way of talent at the leagues most important positions.  I'm pretty sure that most of us could on this site could also have accomplished that feat. 

But its 3 years in , no one knows still how some of the players from the drafts will develop . That's the problem everyone wants immediate results and have no patience to see how this all plays out. Most fans wanted a rebuild and now bitch that the roster lacks talent, they have a ton of young players that we need to see how the develop before judging this rebuild fairly.

[legler82]

8 minutes ago, Stark said:Just now, Beerfish said:

Could not disagree any more, the team got destroyed in all of their losses and his precious defense was pure awful, perhaps I will have to dig out the the list of big play scores the D gave up that year, it is somewhere in my desk.

I've heard this 'it was his best coaching job' thing before by the media, I totally disagree with it 100%

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  Like this year, all the preseason rankings picked us as the worst team with the worst roster.  I'd argue the 2013 roster was worse than this one.  We got blown out because we had no talent.  No need to dig up any stats to prove that we sucked as I already know.  I could be wrong but I vaguely remember that we were the first team ever or in a very long while to win as many games as we did given how bad our point differential was.  If you want to dig up something up, you should try that stat.

That aside, I completely agree with the Groundhog Day reference.  After losing in the divisional round, Herm and Bradway thought we were a TE (1st for D. Jolley) and kicker (Nugent in the 2nd) away in 05.  After a wildcard appearance, Mangini and Tanny traded away picks in 07.  After consecutive AFCCG, Rex and Tanny began letting core guys go, drafting based on need and still throwing away picks.  Bowles and Macs win 10 games against a weak schedule and they do not to really improve the roster.  What's consistent is that we do a poor job of self evaluating especially after experiencing some success.  Idzik had the best approach; he just was a poor evaluator of talent.  

[ZachEY]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

But its 3 years in , no one knows still how some of the players from the drafts will develop . That's the problem everyone wants immediate results and have no patience to see how this all plays out. Most fans wanted a rebuild and now bitch that the roster lacks talent, they have a ton of young players that we need to see how the develop before judging this rebuild fairly.

3 years in, we're the worst team in the league.  Every single team has drafted players in the last 3 years that might make them better... Every one.  And yes, many fans did want a rebuild, but it's not far fetched to want a rebuild and also to be unhappy with how it is being conducted.  The best case scenario of this roster still doesn't have a pass-rusher, a corner, a left tackle, a #1 WR, a RB, or a QB.  The best case is an elite safety tandem, a speedy WR option, Leonard Williams, and an undersized ILB.

[legler82]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That you expect to cry over a missed QB whomshould have gone 6th is what too many died when we passed on Lynch.  A year later it's not like last year when the pro Lynch fans blamed Macc for passing on a franchise QB and used the idea the Elway, how was given a pass on being a great QB expert because he was a good.  QB, how could he not know more than Macc.  So he wasted picks to move up for a QB Macc didn't like enough to pick.  Haven read on post where anyone has said Macc knew more than Elway with Lynch. 

You cant blame him for not drafting a franchise QB when there hasn't been one that he's passed on

I'm sorry; this is incoherent.

[Lupz27]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Making sh*t up?  No one would have or did pick him 6 or earlier.  If he was a franchise, can't miss QB he would have.  

Hes not close to a once in a lifetime arm, you're the one making shlt up.  He has an arm, so does Petty, so does Hack, so does Lynch, so does Jones. All means squat when a weak armed QB like Montanta, Young or Matt Ice would be dream QB comparisons.

love that you find it nonsense that he's number three, hasn't started a preseason game while you derail another thread with your Mahomes nonsense.  Three were taken because of desperation, none of these 3 get selected as high as they were if there was an average draft class for QBs 

lol I'm derailing a thread bringing up Mahomes in a thread that has Mahomes in the thread title.  And the Chiefs were willing to trade away a future 1st RD pick to move up to 10 just 4 spots away from 6, but you say if they had the 6th pick there is no way they would have selected Mahomes?  Yeah that makes sense lol.  I didn't say once in a decade arm, I said Arm Talent that's completely different, I'll take the opinion of the last once in a decade arm talent Mike Vick's opinion over yours thanks, the same Vick who coached him for 3 weeks this training camp, and said he wished he could make the throws Mahomes can make while on the run, and that he considered himself one of the best at doing that in football, so yeah keep getting aggravated that everyone, but you thinks Mahomes is special.

[Pointdexter]

1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

Woody Johnson and his brother will decide what happens to Todd Bowles and Mike Macagnan  .  Until that happens, I being a fan of the jet will support this team .  See, the election is over and the president is in place, so for the good of the team we support the team . Exactly what is gained by a fan of a team to consistently beat the members of the team he cheers for into the ground between Monday and Saturday then bellyache on Sunday night when what you thought was going to happen comes to fruition .

Appreciate you supporting the team in good and bad, however expecting Jets fans to not objectively talk about the current state of the roster and downward projection of said roster, on a Jets msg board, is not realistic. 

I would also say the use of words like "bellyaching" and "whining" aren't honest descriptions of above said objective criticisms. Folks aren't happy. 3 years into a GM's tenure and somewhere approaching 100 million in FA spending... it isn't too much to ask to have a promising young QB, or LT, or pass rusher, or really just one player that scares defenses. Having zero of the above criteria is whiffing in epic proportions that is every bit the equal of the Idzik era. Honestly I think Idzik probably would have done better with that lottery sum of FA dollars that Macc blew on past-their-prime veterans.

[legler82]

24 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But its 3 years in , no one knows still how some of the players from the drafts will develop . That's the problem everyone wants immediate results and have no patience to see how this all plays out. Most fans wanted a rebuild and now bitch that the roster lacks talent, they have a ton of young players that we need to see how the develop before judging this rebuild fairly.

In a rebuild, fans are not looking for immediately results, they are looking for hope.  The kind of hope we get watching Leonard Williams.  The kind of hope Bears, Chiefs and Browns fans are experiencing with the way their rookie QBs have played in the preseason.  Maye has provided that little bit but there's just not enough of that from the the guys Mac has drafted.  If Hack flashes this season, that will go a VERY long way.  At the moment, most of the hope stems from sucking so bad this year that we end up with the top pick.  3 years in that should not be the case.

[Jet Nut]

21 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I'm sorry; this is incoherent.

Not really.  Unless you love Mahomes, think he's number 6 talent.

Hes not

[Lupz27]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Not really.  Unless you love Mahomes, think he's number 6 talent.

Hes not

 

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

lol I'm derailing a thread bringing up Mahomes in a thread that has Mahomes in the thread title.  And the Chiefs were willing to trade away a future 1st RD pick to move up to 10 just 4 spots away from 6, but you say if they had the 6th pick there is no way they would have selected Mahomes?  Yeah that makes sense lol.  I didn't say once in a decade arm, I said Arm Talent that's completely different, I'll take the opinion of the last once in a decade arm talent Mike Vick's opinion over yours thanks, the same Vick who coached him for 3 weeks this training camp, and said he wished he could make the throws Mahomes can make while on the run, and that he considered himself one of the best at doing that in football, so yeah keep getting aggravated that everyone, but you thinks Mahomes is special.

No, it's because you flood threads with the same story over and over again.  You keep calling him a franchise QB when he's a 3rd now.  Now you're trying to sell him a once in a lifetime arm, lol.  I'm the one aggravating people?  You keep posting how special he in every single way because he went from a mid round pick to a 1st after the season ended and there wasn't any competition.  Arm strength, scrambling ability, franchise QB, video of him throwing a pass to a uncovered receiver on an empty field.  You've posted enough nonsense, let it play out instead of insisting you know better without any proof

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

 

What does this mean, that's he's a franchise QB?  Or a once in a lifetime arm?  Or that he wished he had a quicker release?  Or maybe since he was paid to work with him he's throwing the usual bs teachers throw out on student.  

[Lupz27]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No, it's because you flood threads with the same story over and over again.  You keep calling him a franchise QB when he's a 3rd now.  Now you're trying to sell him a once in a lifetime arm, lol.  I'm the one aggravating people?  You keep posting how special he in every single way because he went from a mid round pick to a 1st after the season ended and there wasn't any competition.  Arm strength, scrambling ability, franchise QB, video of him throwing a pass to a uncovered receiver on an empty field.  You've posted enough nonsense, let it play out instead of insisting you know better without any proof

Dude at least be knowledgeable when you post, Mahomes has been the QB 2 on the depth chart for almost 2 Weeks!

http://www.chiefsdigest.com/patrick-mahomes-eclipses-tyler-bray-chiefs-depth-chart/

Arm Talent say it with me Arm Talent not Arm, comprende?

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What does this mean, that's he's a franchise QB?  Or a once in a lifetime arm?  Or that he wished he had a quicker release?  Or maybe since he was paid to work with him he's throwing the usual bs teachers throw out on student.  

It means I'll take the opinion of Mike Vick over yours!

[Pointdexter]

I would also add that the most successful teams pulling off the "gut the roster and rebuild" strategy, have managed to gain draft assets in exchange for their vets. They manage to stockpile draft picks which ends up being the cornerstone of the rebuild. We have not done that at all.

What did Macc aquire for Decker, who is a receiver that can still play in this league? Marshall? What about that 2nd rounder we missed out on when Macc was offered it for Sheldon, a player whose stock has since plummeted. 

The bottom line is, the way the roster is now, one pick per round won't cut it. This roster needs 2-3 OL, a legit WR1, premium pass rusher,  CB1, RB, and, oh ya, a franchise QB. Crazy amount of holes to fill.

HUGE draft mistake in April:  if we didn't like Watson or Mahomes...fine, but Macc killed us by failing to make a deal with KC/Houston/etc to slide back in the draft and acquiring their future draft assets. Macc felt like the safety (Adams) was a generational talent and was so much better than the other safeties in the draft that we couldn't pass, and thus was more valuable than the multitple picks passing on him would've yielded. This may be why other posters are (correctly) stating he needs to be much more than "a solid starter".

 

[varjet]

The only justification for passing over the QBs this year is that Macc and Co felt that the 2018 talent was much, much better, and that the Jets in 2018 would be assured of a QB better than Watson or Mahomes.

FWIW, they are both spread type QBs, for a team that was putting in a WCO.  One would think that NFL teams should go more spread if that is what they are teaching in college.

I like Adams.  I am wondering how good he actually is.  I think his athleticism lags his leadership and toughness, slightly.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that picking Hack in 2016/rd 2 made picking another QB in 2017 politically difficult.  It should not have been.

Although Maye looks good, if Kizer does decently in the NFL, Macc should be fired.  I don't know how you pick a second S in the 2nd round and pass up an NFL QB.

But if you are really looking at big, big picture, it is all moot.  The Jets need a whole new roster.  They drafted a bunch of players they liked in 2017, and in 2018 they will draft a QB and more players.

But I also agree that they need more draft picks, and more cap space for smart second contracts.  Given the state of this team, there are players still on it that cost too much money for who they are.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

3 years in, we're the worst team in the league.  Every single team has drafted players in the last 3 years that might make them better... Every one.  And yes, many fans did want a rebuild, but it's not far fetched to want a rebuild and also to be unhappy with how it is being conducted.  The best case scenario of this roster still doesn't have a pass-rusher, a corner, a left tackle, a #1 WR, a RB, or a QB.  The best case is an elite safety tandem, a speedy WR option, Leonard Williams, and an undersized ILB.

That is a fair point and I agree the Jets have placed far too much emphasis on the defense. But i also think coaching and development share some blame for not getting our picks to the next level. Like someone said in another post NE just plugs in Olinemen , Pittsburgh LBers  Seattle - DB's - but I'd venture to guess if those same players were drafted by the Jets they would not have had the same amount of success .

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

It means I'll take the opinion of Mike Vick over yours!

Unless he disagreed with you , then he'd be a washed up no good dog beater

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

I would also add that the most successful teams pulling off the "gut the roster and rebuild" strategy, have managed to gain draft assets in exchange for their vets. They manage to stockpile draft picks which ends up being the cornerstone of the rebuild. We have not done that at all.

What did Macc aquire for Decker, who is a receiver that can still play in this league? Marshall? What about that 2nd rounder we missed out on when Macc was offered it for Sheldon, a player whose stock has since plummeted. 

The bottom line is, the way the roster is now, one pick per round won't cut it. This roster needs 2-3 OL, a legit WR1, premium pass rusher,  CB1, RB, and, oh ya, a franchise QB. Crazy amount of holes to fill.

HUGE draft mistake in April:  if we didn't like Watson or Mahomes...fine, but Macc killed us by failing to make a deal with KC/Houston/etc to slide back in the draft and acquiring their future draft assets. Macc felt like the safety (Adams) was a generational talent and was so much better than the other safeties in the draft that we couldn't pass, and thus was more valuable than the multitple picks passing on him would've yielded. This may be why other posters are (correctly) stating he needs to be much more than "a solid starter".

 

You mean the guy coming off not 1 by 2 offseason injuries , the guy who's been healthy for about 5 minutes of his career.

Marshall - a noted locker room ahole , who was made available to the Jets for a 5th , we'd expect what for that  wr at age 33.

Sheldon - the 2nd rd pick that was confirmed by no one but Sheldon

Bottom line they cleared out aging vets and massive cap, its what the started to do under Idzik but then panicked , they are at this point in time doing the rebuild right ,starting with a young core to build around, they'll have at minimum a top 10 pick next year and tons of cash to spend, let's see where this plans goes with supposedly everyone on board.

[ZachEY]

14 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

That is a fair point and I agree the Jets have placed far too much emphasis on the defense. But i also think coaching and development share some blame for not getting our picks to the next level. Like someone said in another post NE just plugs in Olinemen , Pittsburgh LBers  Seattle - DB's - but I'd venture to guess if those same players were drafted by the Jets they would not have had the same amount of success .

It's not just too much emphasis on the defense, it's emphasis at the wrong positions.  Who are the players who haven't been developed properly?  In all seriousness, what player in the last 3 years isn't living up to their potential, and had they, would have made a meaningful difference in the team?  We haven't invested in top-end talent at any of the positions that matter in today's NFL.

[56mehl56]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

It's not just too much emphasis on the defense, it's emphasis at the wrong positions.  Who are the players who haven't been developed properly?  In all seriousness, what player in the last 3 years isn't living up to their potential, and had they, would have made a meaningful difference in the team?  We haven't invested in top-end talent at any of the positions that matter in today's NFL.

Its easy to say after the fact who. What if Mauldin tuned into that feared pass rusher, what if Pryor turned out to be a Ronnie Lott. We say we didn't invest in top end talent , but what differentiates some of the players from other teams that developed into top notch players to ours - coaching and development. What if Amaro was developed properly could he be a 60-75 catch per year TE , he did it in college so its not totally absurd.

In my opinion the problem has been the constant cycling between coaches , systems etc...   They need to stick to a plan and ride with it. I 'm not huge Bowles fan , but the last thing the Jets need now is to start that cycle all over again.

[Tinstar]

2 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

Appreciate you supporting the team in good and bad, however expecting Jets fans to not objectively talk about the current state of the roster and downward projection of said roster, on a Jets msg board, is not realistic. 

I would also say the use of words like "bellyaching" and "whining" aren't honest descriptions of above said objective criticisms. Folks aren't happy. 3 years into a GM's tenure and somewhere approaching 100 million in FA spending... it isn't too much to ask to have a promising young QB, or LT, or pass rusher, or really just one player that scares defenses. Having zero of the above criteria is whiffing in epic proportions that is every bit the equal of the Idzik era. Honestly I think Idzik probably would have done better with that lottery sum of FA dollars that Macc blew on past-their-prime veterans.

Not my money, and nobody asked me my opinion of draft picks. I'm a fan of the Jets, not a player, and what the Jets do I might not always agree with, but I will never boo my team . That's like a woman throwing her dishes at her husband and the next day out shopping for new dishes so the same husband don't have to eat off of a paper plate . The vast majority f this fan base criticize every move this team makes then show up on game day hoping for a miracle . 

[legler82]

12 minutes ago, varjet said:

The only justification for passing over the QBs this year is that Macc and Co felt that the 2018 talent was much, much better, and that the Jets in 2018 would be assured of a QB better than Watson or Mahomes.

...or they didn't want to create the perception that Hack was a wasted pick.  Comparing the current class to a future class is a faulty practice considering all the variables (i.e., who comes out, injuries, regression...etc.).  For all we know, the 2017 class may end up being much better than the 2018 when it's all said and done.

12 minutes ago, varjet said:

FWIW, they are both spread type QBs, for a team that was putting in a WCO.  One would think that NFL teams should go more spread if that is what they are teaching in college.

If you know what you are doing as a talent evaluator, the offense a QB prospect runs in college should have no bearing their fit in your scheme.  For example, if you have good feet, throw with timing and anticipation, you'll be a good fit for the WCO.  Even though Mahomes was running the Spread, you can see he had those traits.  The insane arm talent, natural accuracy, adept improvisational skills and intangibles are a bonus.  It's why a WCO savant like Reid paid the hefty price to get him despite QB not being a major need.  Like the clowns we are, we are trying to force the WCO on a player in Hack, who has lumbering feet, poor timing and anticipation.  The fact that he is naturally inaccurate and panicky under pressure is our bonus. 

12 minutes ago, varjet said:

I like Adams.  I am wondering how good he actually is.  I think his athleticism lags his leadership and toughness, slightly.

That's a fair assessment.  At the end of the day he is a safety; I've always been of the mindset that the top 10 was reserved to the rare athletic specimens (i.e., Eric Berry, Sean Taylor...etc.) if you are going to draft that position.  Good leaders can be had as late as Day 3.

12 minutes ago, varjet said:

Although Maye looks good, if Kizer does decently in the NFL, Macc should be fired.  I don't know how you pick a second S in the 2nd round and pass up an NFL QB.

If I have an issue with Mac and his decisions at QB this offseason, it's the fact that he didn't prioritize it.  The outside world felt we were a QB needy team but it's apparent he didn't think so.  He instead placed his fate at the hands of Hack and/or the chance that he able and "still here" to draft one next year, an interesting gamble to say the least.  I can't kill Mac for passing on Kizer, another big arm project with accuracy issue who struggles under pressure, especially knowing the offense we are running.

 

[56mehl56]

16 minutes ago, legler82 said:

...or they didn't want to create the perception that Hack was a wasted pick.  Comparing the current class to a future class is a faulty practice considering all the variables (i.e., who comes out, injuries, regression...etc.).  For all we know, the 2017 class may end up being much better than the 2018 when it's all said and done.

If you know what you are doing as a talent evaluator, the offense a QB prospect runs in college should have no bearing their fit in your scheme.  For example, if you have good feet, throw with timing and anticipation, you'll be a good fit for the WCO.  Even though Mahomes was running the Spread, you can see he had those traits.  The insane arm talent, natural accuracy, adept improvisational skills and intangibles are a bonus.  It's why a WCO savant like Reid paid the hefty price to get him despite QB not being a major need.  Like the clowns we are, we are trying to force the WCO on a player in Hack, who has lumbering feet, poor timing and anticipation.  The fact that he is naturally inaccurate and panicky under pressure is our bonus. 

That's a fair assessment.  At the end of the day he is a safety; I've always been of the mindset that the top 10 was reserved to the rare athletic specimens (i.e., Eric Berry, Sean Taylor...etc.) if you are going to draft that position.  Good leaders can be had as late as Day 3.

If I have an issue with Mac and his decisions at QB this offseason, it's the fact that he didn't prioritize it.  The outside world felt we were a QB needy team but it's apparent he didn't think so.  He instead placed his fate at the hands of Hack and/or the chance that he able and "still here" to draft one next year, an interesting gamble to say the least.  I can't kill Mac for passing on Kizer, another big arm project with accuracy issue who struggles under pressure, especially knowing the offense we are running.

 

Oh we've been down that road before not specifically with safety, but our Scouts/coaches fell in love multiple times with guys who were combine warriors ( Dwayne Robinson, Vernon Gholston) . To be honest at safety I'll take the leader and true QB of the defense over someone who simply has measureables. 

[ZachEY]

34 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Its easy to say after the fact who. What if Mauldin tuned into that feared pass rusher, what if Pryor turned out to be a Ronnie Lott. We say we didn't invest in top end talent , but what differentiates some of the players from other teams that developed into top notch players to ours - coaching and development. What if Amaro was developed properly could he be a 60-75 catch per year TE , he did it in college so its not totally absurd.

In my opinion the problem has been the constant cycling between coaches , systems etc...   They need to stick to a plan and ride with it. I 'm not huge Bowles fan , but the last thing the Jets need now is to start that cycle all over again.

For those who follow the combine, or even SPARKS, Maudlin didn't have the athletic metrics (slowish and poor explosion) to be a feared pass-rusher, or, at the very least, it was highly unlikely.  The current NFL rules mean Pryor is generally negated.  Could he be better, I guess we'll have the opportunity to see.  My understanding is that Amaro's metrics were not great either.  On top of that, his biggest problem is he couldn't stay healthy, missing all of 2015 with us, then playing in only 3 games in 2016.

[legler82]

13 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

 To be honest at safety I'll take the leader and true QB of the defense over someone who simply has measureables. 

In the top 10 I'd rather one that is a leader, true QB of the defense AND has measureables.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

It means I'll take the opinion of Mike Vick over yours!

Yeah because Vick has proven over again that he's a smart one.  People took Jaws opinion, a much better QB that Vick, about Clemons and fans fell over each other defending Lynch because Elway made the move up tomget him.  

As imsaid, enough of your constant pimping of Mahomes, why can't you just let it play out, why are so insistent that he's a cant miss QB when he isn't.

[legler82]

16 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Oh we've been down that road before not specifically with safety, but our Scouts/coaches fell in love multiple times with guys who were combine warriors ( Dwayne Robinson, Vernon Gholston) .

Robertson and Gholston shouldn't be lumped in together IMO.  A healthy Robertson was more than serviceable when as the 3 technique in Herm's Tampa "Who" defense.  Like  Vilma, he only became useless when Mangini came in and implemented the 3-4.

[Lupz27]

19 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah because Vick has proven over again that he's a smart one.  People took Jaws opinion, a much better QB that Vick, about Clemons and fans fell over each other defending Lynch because Elway made the move up tomget him.  

As imsaid, enough of your constant pimping of Mahomes, why can't you just let it play out, why are so insistent that he's a cant miss QB when he isn't.

Because he is, and I've been screaming that he is since October you telling me to stop being insistent on it will not all of a sudden change my mind!  And I did nothing, but trash Lynch last year before the draft, and would have lost my sh*t if the Jets drafted him at 20.

[56mehl56]

18 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Robertson and Gholston shouldn't be lumped in together IMO.  A healthy Robertson was more than serviceable when as the 3 technique in Herm's Tampa "Who" defense.  Like  Vilma, he only became useless when Mangini came in and implemented the 3-4.

Robertson was ok , but again was he so special we needed to trade up for him ??

[legler82]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Robertson was ok , but again was he so special we needed to trade up for him ??

No but I don't think anyone was arguing that.

[Obrien2Toon]

Since when was Vick a once in a decade arm, a once in a decade athlete perhaps.

And why do you value his QB thoughts so much?

He wasn't exactly the most cerebral QB when he played

He couldn't break down defenses and had zero touch on his passes

[legler82]

4 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Since when was Vick a once in a decade arm, a once in a decade arm perhaps.

And why do you value his QB thoughts so much?

He wasn't exactly the most cerebral QB when he played

He couldn't break down defenses and had zero touch on his passes

Yes, Vick couldn't break down defenses but he did have high level arm talent.  Game recognizes game.  Not so sure about the lack of touch criticism.  He may not have consistently known the right instances to apply touch on his passes but he have the ability to.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Oh we've been down that road before not specifically with safety, but our Scouts/coaches fell in love multiple times with guys who were combine warriors ( Dwayne Robinson, Vernon Gholston) . To be honest at safety I'll take the leader and true QB of the defense over someone who simply has measureables. 

You can hate those two ****s all you want, but they were NOT combine warriors.  Gholston, in particular, did worse than I expected at the combine and was a huge producer in the Big Ten. I remember how people were ranting about how going over the film again Robertson was unstoppable.  

Combine warriors = Vernon Davis and Mark Gastineau.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You can hate those two ****s all you want, but they were NOT combine warriors.  Gholston, in particular, did worse than I expected at the combine and was a huge producer in the Big Ten. I remember how people were ranting about how going over the film again Robertson was unstoppable.  

Combine warriors = Vernon Davis and Mark Gastineau.

They fell in love with him after he put up 37 reps on the bench. Sure he was a big producer in the Big 10 but a lot of success came against teams like Ball St , Purdue etc... I remember him being completely shutout against LSU in the bowl game that year .  Robertson had more potential but was very flawed due to the injuries. 

[detectivekimble]

On August 20, 2017 at 5:56 PM, RSJ said:

I agree. I wanted Cooke in the 2nd and was shocked at the Maye pick - but it looks like its a pretty good pick right now. A good safety is far more valuable than a good RB, imo.

I don't think so, but a good safety is definitely more difficult to find than a good RB.