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Winners and Losers from Jets Pre-Season Week 2


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19 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What does that say for the other QB's on the roster who he seems to be out performing at the moment, maybe neither belong in the NFL 

Unmmmm it says our QB situation is awful and there is a valid reason why most observers have us as one of the worst if not the worst teams in the entire NFL.  

And so a five game winning season IMO would be an outstanding accomplishment with this crew. 

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27 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

The other one the defenders helmet hits the ball almost inadvertently, I wouldn't really label this a drop but make a break-up.

Just watched the replay in slo motion.  Ball never touched the defender until it hit the receivers hands

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27 minutes ago, August said:

Not true. What set this team back was forgoing the rebuild; in favor of high priced late prime veterans instead of developing younger players at those positions. Even if those drafts were "failures" (we didn't do any better or worse than most teams did in those years) why not give the gm an opportunity to rectify his mistakes (see the Raiders GM who had a few early shaky drafts before he began hitting on picks later). The '13 draft gave us Milliner who looked promising at times but couldn't stay healthy. Sheldon who has been good for us, Smith who struggled but showed some potential, Winters who got better every year. And Aboushi who looked promising but was cut for no reason. That's not that bad of a first draft. Second draft gave us Pryor who had an up and down rookie year but showed promise, then he had a good second year, then struggled in year 3 but then again the majority of the team struggled that year. Amaro who looked solid as a rookie TE, before missing his second season with an injury. McDougle who missed his rookie season due to injury who has since become a solid rotation player. Ijalana who's still on the team and has a chance to be a starter this year. Enunwa who has improved every year and Reilly who was a solid special teams guy for a few years. Those drafts were not that bad. Especially when you look at other teams drafts from '14 and seen how they drafted worse than us. 

I would ask if you were actually Idzik, but I seriously doubt even he thinks as highly of those drafts as you apparently do.

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4 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Just watched the replay in slo motion.  Ball never touched the defender until it hit the receivers hands

But after it hits Leggets hands I believe it gets jarred by the defenders helmet. I'm going by memory , but I watched back a few times Sat night.

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2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I get the concept of giving Petty a chance, but my point is more related to the sudden surge of talking about his supposed talent.  Trying to cite Petty's performance in that game as a good one is grasping at straws, and not based in reality.  When it involves talking about the supposed credit he should be given for throwing into triple coverage at the end of the game, it's hard to take serious.  Considering the game was already over, I don't blame Petty at all for making that throw, but it's by no means deserving of any praise.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no interest in watching McCown this year, but if the Jets are convinced that both of the young QBs are absolute garbage, they'll be using McCown, not for him being any sort of solution at the QB position, but for the sole reason of him being considered the "best" means to evaluate the young offensive players at other positions.  None of us have to like that, but it's still a very real possibility.  Ideally, either one of Hack or Petty can do enough to provide that, while also giving us a look at one or both of them, but that's far from a certainty.

I hear you and I think that is why McCown is here; which is if both QBs are just so God awful that they can't be on the field you want a vet in there  

However I disagreed with the Jets brass on this key point when they got McCown from the start.  

First and foremost we already saw Petty on the field and in truth he wasn't great but he wasn't awful either, he was a neophyte taking the field on team devoid of skill players and a bad OL, that is what we got.  And Petty got injured in part because of his inexperience and in part because of tthat horrific OL play that we saw at the end of last year. 

I get that they think that they know what they have in Petty, backup at best, ok fine; but then put him or Hack out there this season and get them valuable playing time for next season when you bring in another young QB who you hope will be a franchise level player. 

Im not hating on Hack; I'm on record before the draft as wanting him drafted by the Jets, so if he ends up being no good for the NFL then I would have blown it as well.

Also I am not hating on McCown, he seems like a great guy, person and mentor, there is no doubt about it.  

What I am saying is I don't want the Jets cutting Petty because we now have McCown and we want Hack to be the number two!! That would be so Jetsy it is sickening and that is why a fair competition even for all the QB slots is so important. 

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Just now, Bleedin Green said:

I would ask if you were actually Idzik, but I seriously doubt even he thinks as highly of those drafts as you apparently do.

What did I say that wasn't true? Did Milliner not show promise but couldn't stay healthy? Hasn't Sheldon Richardson been a good player for us? Did Smith not struggle but also showed some promise and potential? Hasn't Winters improved every year? Wasn't Aboushi showing promise and was cut for no reason? Wasn't Pryor showing potential as a rookie but struggled, didn't he not play well in '15? Didn't Amaro show some potential as a rookie (led rookie TE's in yards receiving and TD's) hasn't McDougle been a solid rotation player for us? Isn't Ijalana in a position to start for us this season? Hasn't Enunwa improved every year since he's been here? 

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48 minutes ago, August said:

What did I say that wasn't true? 

In a nutshell? This:

1 hour ago, August said:

Those drafts were not that bad. 

Yes... Yes they were.

Last week the Panthers & Titans had a joint practice and at 1 point Amaro drew Kuechly in a 1 on 1 drill. I'll link the video here to serve as a microcosm of the Idzik drafts

https://mobile.twitter.com/PanthersBill/status/898194558483410945/video/1

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4 minutes ago, August said:

What did I say that wasn't true? Did Milliner not show promise but couldn't stay healthy? Hasn't Sheldon Richardson been a good player for us? Did Smith not struggle but also showed some promise and potential? Hasn't Winters improved every year? Wasn't Aboushi showing promise and was cut for no reason? Wasn't Pryor showing potential as a rookie but struggled, didn't he not play well in '15? Didn't Amaro show some potential as a rookie (led rookie TE's in yards receiving and TD's) hasn't McDougle been a solid rotation player for us? Isn't Ijalana in a position to start for us this season? Hasn't Enunwa improved every year since he's been here? 

For Milliner, a grand total of 3 good games for a top 10 pick who is already out of the league deserves absolutely no praise.  An injury prone college player continuing to be injury prone in the NFL is not an acceptable excuse.  Richardson is good, but has also had more than his fair share of problems with the team.  I have nothing against the Smith pick even in hindsight, given how far he fell to them, but it is not deserving of any praise either.  The kid is/was terrible.  Winters is solid, but a 4 year development timeline for a guard taken in the third is not overly impressive.  Aboushi was a backup OL, who got a few starts out of desperation.  Nothing more.  Pryor was a bust.  Once again, a handful of flashes from a first round pick is not deserving of praise when the bad far outweighs the good.  Amaro was a 2nd round pick who had one year of dropsies and has done absolutely nothing since then, being a third stringer elsewhere.  McDougle continued his already long known history of injuries, and was even knocked down to the practice squad for most of last year with no interest from other teams.  Him currently having a solid camp/preseason is pretty much the only positive he's had to his career, assuming he survives it all.  Ijalana wasn't drafted by the Jets.  Enunwa was definitely Idzik's best pick.

Yet all of this is the best you can come up with out a total of 19 picks.  You only mentioned 9 of them, and only 3 of those are actually any good (Richardson, Winters, Enunwa).  The other 6 mentioned are excusing Idzik for any blame of their failures.  And the other 10 are so bad they couldn't even make a list that attempts to praise the likes of Amaro?  Campbell, Evans, and Boyd never even played a single NFL snap.  Saunders lasted about 15 minutes with the Jets and 20 total in the entire league.  George and Dixon got a little play elsewhere in the NFL, but were not even good enough to make those terrible Jets teams.  It's not good... at all.

In the end, Idzik mostly just blends in with the rest of the Jets' sh*tty GMs, so is hardly some unseen level of awful for us, but any attempts to credit him for a supposed rebuild that was a colossal failure are misguided.  The only thing he accomplished was clearing out cap space, which pretty much any idiot could do, proven by the Jets just doing it again now.  Idzik had the space for a year before he was fired and had no idea what to do with it, other than last minute investments in Harvin and Kerley, once he already had one foot out the door.

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5 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

For Milliner, a grand total of 3 good games for a top 10 pick who is already out of the league deserves absolutely no praise.  An injury prone college player continuing to be injury prone in the NFL is not an acceptable excuse.  Richardson is good, but has also had more than his fair share of problems with the team.  I have nothing against the Smith pick even in hindsight, given how far he fell to them, but it is not deserving of any praise either.  The kid is/was terrible.  Winters is solid, but a 4 year development timeline for a guard taken in the third is not overly impressive.  Aboushi was a backup OL, who got a few starts out of desperation.  Nothing more.  Pryor was a bust.  Once again, a handful of flashes from a first round pick is not deserving of praise when the bad far outweighs the good.  Amaro was a 2nd round pick who had one year of dropsies and has done absolutely nothing since then, being a third stringer elsewhere.  McDougle continued his already long known history of injuries, and was even knocked down to the practice squad for most of last year with no interest from other teams.  Him currently having a solid camp/preseason is pretty much the only positive he's had to his career, assuming he survives it all.  Ijalana wasn't drafted by the Jets.  Enunwa was definitely Idzik's best pick.

Yet all of this is the best you can come up with out a total of 19 picks.  You only mentioned 9 of them, and only 3 of those are actually any good (Richardson, Winters, Enunwa).  The other 6 mentioned are excusing Idzik for any blame of their failures.  And the other 10 are so bad they couldn't even make a list that attempts to praise the likes of Amaro?  Campbell, Evans, and Boyd never even played a single NFL snap.  Saunders lasted about 15 minutes with the Jets and 20 total in the entire league.  George and Dixon got a little play elsewhere in the NFL, but were not even good enough to make those terrible Jets teams.  It's not good... at all.

In the end, Idzik mostly just blends in with the rest of the Jets' sh*tty GMs, so is hardly some unseen level of awful for us, but any attempts to credit him for a supposed rebuild that was a colossal failure are misguided.  The only thing he accomplished was clearing out cap space, which pretty much any idiot could do, proven by the Jets just doing it again now.  Idzik had the space for a year before he was fired and had no idea what to do with it, other than last minute investments in Harvin and Kerley, once he already had one foot out the door.

So you're saying Milliner never showed promise outside of 3 games? Smith never showed promise? As a rookie despite that season being bad didn't lead the league in game winning drives and 4th quarter come backs? Or in the last quarter of the season not have the second highest QB rating after Peyton? That's not showing promise? Or in year 2 the fact that he improved across the board higher completion percentage going from 55% to 59% and cutting down on the int's from 21 to 13 and having a perfect passer rating? We all know what happened afterwards and why he never saw the field after. But Geno was not a bad pick. Aboushi was a starting guard for the Texans and is starting for the Seahawks now. 

How is Pryor a bust? He didn't show some potential as a rookie? He didn't play well in year 2 and became a key component of our defense so much so that when he missed time his absence was felt? In his 3rd year you're talking about a coach that had players playing out of position which included Sheldon playing at OLB? Who's to say the schemes didn't affect Pryor last year? Amaro didn't show promise I literally said in the previous post that he led rookie TE's in yards and td's, he got hurt in year 2 then cut in year 3 for no reason, then realized they made a mistake and had to sign another guy off the street. 

 

No GM is going to hit on every pick. So he had a few ones that didn't workout it happens. It's disingenuous to discredit these players and acting as if they never showed anything and all the players he drafted were busts. That's before mentioning bringing in undrafted free agents like Rontez Miles, Marcus Williams, Brent Qvale who's been contributors here. Development players like Ijalana and Dozier who are still here. Not every draft pick is gonna be pro bowlers. Some will be pro bowlers or have pro bowl seasons (Sheldon 13/14, Pryor 15) some will show promise (Amaro 14, Enunwa 16) some will be role players (McDougle, Winters, Aboushi) and some will bust out (Saunders, Williams etc) 

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2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Your almost as bad as the hack writers twisting peoples words into your agenda. What the poster was saying is that Adams played the correct coverage and forced the opponent inside where the second defender should have cleaned him up if in position. The fact that Adams got a hand on him has nothing to do with the missed tackle on this play.

"It's not his fault he missed the tackle and it was a great job just to get a hand on him"

 

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4 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

"It's not his fault he missed the tackle and it was a great job just to get a hand on him"

 

Basically true, he forced contain inside and did well just to get a hand on the ball carrier , the LBer should have cleaned up and made the tackle - why is this so hard to comprehend.

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Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Basically true, he forced contain inside and did well just to get a hand on the ball carrier , the LBer should have cleaned up and made the tackle - why is this so hard to comprehend.

because it's utterly idiotic to excuse a poor tackle because someone else blew their assignment. He was there. He could have made the play and didn't. You snowflakes don't seem to dislike personal responsibility though and always want to blame someone else. Adams will be fine. He will be a good player, but he missed a tackle. Holy hell the legnths ya'll go to to excuse someone from a bad play are incredible. 

"Gee, boss, timmy dropped his coffee cup and fried his computer so I didn't think I had to work today."

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22 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

because it's utterly idiotic to excuse a poor tackle because someone else blew their assignment. He was there. He could have made the play and didn't. You snowflakes don't seem to dislike personal responsibility though and always want to blame someone else. Adams will be fine. He will be a good player, but he missed a tackle. Holy hell the legnths ya'll go to to excuse someone from a bad play are incredible. 

"Gee, boss, timmy dropped his coffee cup and fried his computer so I didn't think I had to work today."

Trust  me I'm about the farthest thing from a snowflake , on the flip side your proving to be one of the forums biggest idiots. Understand the game and the play before you start running your trap.

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30 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Trust  me I'm about the farthest thing from a snowflake , on the flip side your proving to be one of the forums biggest idiots. Understand the game and the play before you start running your trap.

I'd suggest the same to you, but I don't think there's any hope for you, snowflake.

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2 hours ago, August said:

So you're saying Milliner never showed promise outside of 3 games? Smith never showed promise? As a rookie despite that season being bad didn't lead the league in game winning drives and 4th quarter come backs? Or in the last quarter of the season not have the second highest QB rating after Peyton? That's not showing promise? Or in year 2 the fact that he improved across the board higher completion percentage going from 55% to 59% and cutting down on the int's from 21 to 13 and having a perfect passer rating? We all know what happened afterwards and why he never saw the field after. But Geno was not a bad pick. Aboushi was a starting guard for the Texans and is starting for the Seahawks now. 

How is Pryor a bust? He didn't show some potential as a rookie? He didn't play well in year 2 and became a key component of our defense so much so that when he missed time his absence was felt? In his 3rd year you're talking about a coach that had players playing out of position which included Sheldon playing at OLB? Who's to say the schemes didn't affect Pryor last year? Amaro didn't show promise I literally said in the previous post that he led rookie TE's in yards and td's, he got hurt in year 2 then cut in year 3 for no reason, then realized they made a mistake and had to sign another guy off the street. 

 

No GM is going to hit on every pick. So he had a few ones that didn't workout it happens. It's disingenuous to discredit these players and acting as if they never showed anything and all the players he drafted were busts. That's before mentioning bringing in undrafted free agents like Rontez Miles, Marcus Williams, Brent Qvale who's been contributors here. Development players like Ijalana and Dozier who are still here. Not every draft pick is gonna be pro bowlers. Some will be pro bowlers or have pro bowl seasons (Sheldon 13/14, Pryor 15) some will show promise (Amaro 14, Enunwa 16) some will be role players (McDougle, Winters, Aboushi) and some will bust out (Saunders, Williams etc) 

So your argument is essentially that any NFL player who doesn't look absolutely useless for every single play of their entire NFL career was a successful pick.  Wow.

A player who turns out to be completely useless and is quickly jettisoned is a good pick in your mind, just as long as they flashed something for even a very short time?  If that were the measure of drafting, then Idzik was still one of the league's worst, because you would need to give every other GM such a laughably ridiculous basis for evaluation.  Milliner sucked.  Geno sucked.  Amaro sucked.  High picks who are all off the team and either out of the league or fighting for backup/third string jobs.  Yet somehow you are attempting to use them as evidence of the supposed success of Idzik?  Then you seriously tried to cite Pryor as having a supposed Pro Bowl season?  You can't possibly be serious with that.  By your measure, the only time a player is a bust is if they simply never even play, unless that can be blamed on injuries, in which case it was still a "good" pick, even when it correlated to a long injury history the player already had and the team was well aware of.

By this kind of evaluation, there would simply never be such a thing as a bad GM.

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34 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So your argument is essentially that any NFL player who doesn't look absolutely useless for every single play of their entire NFL career was a successful pick.  Wow.

A player who turns out to be completely useless and is quickly jettisoned is a good pick in your mind, just as long as they flashed something for even a very short time?  If that were the measure of drafting, then Idzik was still one of the league's worst, because you would need to give every other GM such a laughably ridiculous basis for evaluation.  Milliner sucked.  Geno sucked.  Amaro sucked.  High picks who are all off the team and either out of the league or fighting for backup/third string jobs.  Yet somehow you are attempting to use them as evidence of the supposed success of Idzik?  Then you seriously tried to cite Pryor as having a supposed Pro Bowl season?  You can't possibly be serious with that.  By your measure, the only time a player is a bust is if they simply never even play, unless that can be blamed on injuries, in which case it was still a "good" pick, even when it correlated to a long injury history the player already had and the team was well aware of.

By this kind of evaluation, there would simply never be such a thing as a bad GM.

My argument is that some of the players he drafted showed promise and weren't flat out busts or terrible players like you're making them out to be. 

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5 hours ago, chirorob said:

That's my point.   If you are going to have a competition, have a fair one.  

I have no illusions about Petty, he's not going to 12 pro bowls.  But if he is out playing Hack, why isn't he getting a legit shot?

Where as I agree that Petty isn't getting a fair shot, I really can't be surprised.  Bowles did the same thing last year.  First he announced Fitz as starter while he was a FA , and gave Fitz all kinds of ammo in the negotiations (groan).  Then after Fitz came in, two weeks later, while Petty was out playing Smith in practice, Bowles told the media that there was no competition for the back up spot.  It became a big joke for the rest of camp about the non-competition back up competition while Petty continued to out play smith.

Does it make any sense?  Of course not, but that's the way it is with Bowles  

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8 hours ago, flgreen said:

The OL wasn't good, but Hack did Hack no favors either.  The Lions ran the same blitz that Hack got creamed on twice in the second half, Petty called an audible , and hit a 23 yard play up the left side line.

I don't care if either Hack or Petty start (they won't) just don't want to see Mc Cown.

Saturday Hack looked very bad, and Petty looked good 

it was almost as if the OL does not like QB Hackenberg in the locker room. reminds me of the first practice from 'heaven can wait'

 

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