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Mauldin on roster BUBBLE -- Then so should GM Macc


Paradis

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26 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

I think the only way Mac is fired is if someone like Harbaugh is brought in.

I think this is right.  Hopefully Woody has figured out that hiring and firing the same type of guys in the same structure leads to the same results, but more turmoil.

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What planet are you currently residing? Leonard Williams, Darren Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Justin Burris, Charone Peake etc...plus this years draft was solid. Add to that potential starters Brandon Shell and Deon Simon. Mac has done a pretty good job. No GM hits on EVERY pick and I agree that I doubt HACKENBERG is the answer at QB. Mauldin has been injured and not able to show his stuff so far, but he is certainly not a bust even though he may be released it is because you can't wait forever for a guy to get healthy.


TBO other than Williams the players you mentioned have a lot to prove this season before you can make any evaluation.

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3 hours ago, Lith said:

This.  

There is a huge difference between being a scout who can evaluate the talent of individual players, and being a GM who has to assemble a team.  Macc has found some talent, but where he has failed, in my opinion, is in building a team.  As you pointed out in another post, over the course of 3 offseasons, he has not been able to solve for the most important positions in the game.  We head into the 3rd season of Macc's regime with question marks/injury risks at LT and CB1.  And we have no legitimate edge rusher, starting QB, WR1 or RB1.  Yet Macc continually seems to get a pass from the fanbase.  

I am not calling for his head, at least not yet -- I will wait to see how some of our young OL, RBs, WRs and TEs develop this year.  But if we end the season with the same holes we have now, then  I would be ready to move on from both Bowles and Macc.

 

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I am.

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13 hours ago, Paradis said:

I don't appreciate the picture you're trying to paint. You've spent this entire thread trying to discredited me (and lumping me into a group of soapbox artists) - for what? For not liking our GM's ability to do anything but address the QB and the offense? He passed on Lynch to draft Hackenberg. What exactly is it, that I'm guilty of -- besides expecting my GM to be a GM. 

Because the premise of this thread, that Macc's job is somehow tied to the success of a 3rd round pick, regardless of how well the other picks do is as wrong as your evaluation of Lynch. You went nuts over Lynch and acted as if he was a slam dunk lock to be a stud QB. You went on and on about it. It wasn't just a passing "Hey, I like this kid." You bashed macc forever for passing on him. Now you are locking in on Mauldin for no apparent reason. 

I am not a Macc lover or hater. I think his job security should be evaluated on how well ALL of his draft picks play and not just tied to the failings of Mauldin or success of Williams. This thread is your typical "hot take."

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1 hour ago, SMC said:

In general, I think GMs should get one chance to blow up the roster.  Idzik blew up the roster but then was disastrous in his drafting (great plan, horrible execution).

This is Macc's one blow up chance.  He hits on the QB in next year's draft and everything is golden.  If not, pink slip.

I don't believe it makes sense to install a new regime right before such a pivotal draft.  Macc is good with the no-brainers BAP.  That might happen in the top 5 next year with the QBs.  Nobody wants a GM who thinks he's smarter than anyone else and blow that top 5 consensus pick.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to fire our idiot GM right before a pivotal draft. He's just dumb enough to not screw it up, maybe!

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15 hours ago, sourceworx said:

What a disappointment this guy has turned out to be. He looked like he had potential in his rookie year.

That's ok we passed on Tim Williams for a mediocre safetty and Tim Williams only has a sack and almost had a second sack the other night and played only half the game.

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12 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You bashed macc forever for passing on him. Now you are locking in on Mauldin for no apparent reason. 

No, and you're lumping me into a group of sensationalists who are so absurdly hot and cold on everything Jets.  I've been critical of Macc for his drafting/scouting - and that's it. AND i've been mostly supportive (well trying) with Hack... even though it was the worst pick ever. Worse than Nugent. Worse than Aguayo... I voiced my incredible displeasure with passing on a QB/Lynch for Lee post-draft and then I dropped it. Only when other jaggoffs bring it up, do I...

Now if you don't mind sticking to the fcking topic... It's not just Mauldin (obviously). It's the lack of talent depth period. It shouldn't take this long to get *better* as a franchise. Under his watch, we've eroded away. He's gonna need league-feared defense and a yet to be identified bona-fide playmaker on offense to keep his seat anything less warm

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

No, and you're lumping me into a group of sensationalists who are so absurdly hot and cold on everything Jets.  I've been critical of Macc for his drafting/scouting - and that's it. AND i've been mostly supportive (well trying) with Hack... even though it was the worst pick ever. Worse than Nugent. Worse than Aguayo... I voiced my incredible displeasure with passing on a QB/Lynch for Lee post-draft and then I dropped it. Only when other jaggoffs bring it up, do I...

Now if you don't mind sticking to the fcking topic... It's not just Mauldin (obviously). It's the lack of talent depth period. It shouldn't take this long to get *better* as a franchise. Under his watch, we've eroded away. He's gonna need league-feared defense and a yet to be identified bona-fide playmaker on offense to keep his seat anything less warm

If you're saying that Mac needs to hit on an edge rusher this year, and any one of the guys we have needs to step up and at least be good then I agree with you. 

Someone needs to get close to double digit sacks and provide consistent pressure on the edge to open up the middle for the big fellas, and keep the MLBs clean. 

He needs a lot of players to take steps forward this year to prove himself worthy of picking again. Positions where he has spent resources. Center, RT, WR, TE, Safety for sure, and MLB. CB, and of course an edge rusher. 

It doesn't have to be Mauldin though. As with all the other positions I mentioned, he needs to have one of his players emerge and take the job. Not win by default. 

The QB position would be gravy then, and if one of them surprises he could afford to miss at a couple other spots.  

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22 hours ago, slats said:

I'd be surprised if Mac was fired after this season. Nothing he did this year suggests a guy who's on the hot seat. I have to believe that he got the owner on board with a total rebuild after last year's complete debacle, and was open and honest with him in that this was going to be a miserable year. I don't fault him for passing on the QBs this year, especially if the plan is to be in position to take one of the top signal callers next year. I don't think he's drafted terrible players. He's not Idzik bad. But I have the same complaint that's been repeated in this thread: his ignoring premium positions in general. If Lee or Adams become total game-changers at their respective positions you could justify those picks, but I don't see it happening. 

The team may have the worst roster in the league this year, but it's not like the veterans he let go were such major upgrades over what remains - with the exception, if healthy, of Decker. Mostly he did a needed purge of expensive dead weight. But year three, you want to feel better about the young talent you have. That first draft should be coming into its own, and yet it looks like Williams and maybe Simon and that's it. Guys like Jenkins, Burris, Shell, and Peake need to distinguish themselves this year in expanded roles. 

I think we're stuck with Mac for at least another year. I just hope this season gives me some reason to be optimistic about that. 

I agree with you on Macc and Bowles.  They are acting like they are in their first year of their contracts.  

My thought is the only way Woody would allow this is either he forced the Hack pick and these guys are taking their lumps for it or Woody was so happy Trump got elected that he could care less about winning as long as he stays filthy rich.

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1 hour ago, Pcola said:

I agree with you on Macc and Bowles.  They are acting like they are in their first year of their contracts.  

My thought is the only way Woody would allow this is either he forced the Hack pick and these guys are taking their lumps for it or Woody was so happy Trump got elected that he could care less about winning as long as he stays filthy rich.

It's the latter

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1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

If you're saying that Mac needs to hit on an edge rusher this year, and any one of the guys we have needs to step up and at least be good then I agree with you. 

Someone needs to get close to double digit sacks and provide consistent pressure on the edge to open up the middle for the big fellas, and keep the MLBs clean. 

He needs a lot of players to take steps forward this year to prove himself worthy of picking again. Positions where he has spent resources. Center, RT, WR, TE, Safety for sure, and MLB. CB, and of course an edge rusher. 

It doesn't have to be Mauldin though. As with all the other positions I mentioned, he needs to have one of his players emerge and take the job. Not win by default. 

The QB position would be gravy then, and if one of them surprises he could afford to miss at a couple other spots.  

We haven't had a good edge rusher since Abraham.  The Giants seem to get one every year either in the draft or free agency

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There is a lot of luck involved in the draft to. Williams & Adams dropping to us was complete luck but who cares? Our GM said "thank you" and sent in the cards.

The Adams naysayers here will be eating their words next year. His athleticism, smarts, and passion to be the best, along with his love of football will drive him to be one of the best safeties in the league & Maye looks like he'll break our 2nd round jinx. These 3 guys (Williams included) will probably be the young leaders driving this defense into the future.

2/3 years it takes to develop NFL players, very view jump on the field & take off. You guys had no CLUE who Julian Edelman was but the Pats developed him into a stud slot WR. It's gonna be a tough year but I expect to see some young guys develop & make plays. 

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People keep dismissing Maccagnan for drafting obvious picks in Leo and Jamal Adams, but you know what? 5 GMs passed on both players in those drafts, so maybe its not as obvious as you make it out to be. Even Darron Lee is appearing to turn the corner, PFF graded him at over 80 in his last game. Additionally, in Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Peake, McGuire and Derrick Jones, Macc has done an nice job in the later rounds. 

The biggest issues with his drafts so far are the second and third round. Devin Smith and Lorenzo Mauldin have dealt with extensive injuries in the pros and neither dealt with injuries in college, so its not as if he could have foretold that the injuries would continue (ala Dee Milliner). That's just sh*tty luck. Hackenberg was an atrocity of a pick, but it is what it is. 

A bigger issue is Maccagnan sucks at prioritizing the premium positions: Edge Rusher, QB, LT and CB. Only one of those positions have been addressed in the 1st 2 rounds through 3 years and the pick was Hackenberg. 

Maccagnan has a decent eye for talent, that's why we have done ok in the late rounds and UDFA selections. His weakness is in roster construction, but as a 1st time GM, shouldn't that have been expected? 

Let the guy grow into his job a little bit. 

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37 minutes ago, Jetster said:

There is a lot of luck involved in the draft to. Williams & Adams dropping to us was complete luck but who cares? Our GM said "thank you" and sent in the cards.

The Adams naysayers here will be eating their words next year. His athleticism, smarts, and passion to be the best, along with his love of football will drive him to be one of the best safeties in the league & Maye looks like he'll break our 2nd round jinx. These 3 guys (Williams included) will probably be the young leaders driving this defense into the future.

2/3 years it takes to develop NFL players, very view jump on the field & take off. You guys had no CLUE who Julian Edelman was but the Pats developed him into a stud slot WR. It's gonna be a tough year but I expect to see some young guys develop & make plays. 

 

The main problem I have with the pick is that his athleticism is about average for a strong safety: https://relativeathleticscores.com/2017/04/13/jamal-adams-ras/

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20 minutes ago, maury77 said:

People keep dismissing Maccagnan for drafting obvious picks in Leo and Jamal Adams, but you know what? 5 GMs passed on both players in those drafts, so maybe its not as obvious as you make it out to be. Even Darron Lee is appearing to turn the corner, PFF graded him at over 80 in his last game. Additionally, in Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Peake, McGuire and Derrick Jones, Macc has done an nice job in the later rounds. 

The biggest issues with his drafts so far are the second and third round. Devin Smith and Lorenzo Mauldin have dealt with extensive injuries in the pros and neither dealt with injuries in college, so its not as if he could have foretold that the injuries would continue (ala Dee Milliner). That's just sh*tty luck. Hackenberg was an atrocity of a pick, but it is what it is. 

A bigger issue is Maccagnan sucks at prioritizing the premium positions: Edge Rusher, QB, LT and CB. Only one of those positions have been addressed in the 1st 2 rounds through 3 years and the pick was Hackenberg. 

Maccagnan has a decent eye for talent, that's why we have done ok in the late rounds and UDFA selections. His weakness is in roster construction, but as a 1st time GM, shouldn't that have been expected? 

Let the guy grow into his job a little bit. 

His no-brainer picks weren't actually no-brainers, he's horrible in the second and third rounds, he's clueless when it comes to positional value, but come on we gotta let the guy grow into his job a little bit

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

People keep dismissing Maccagnan for drafting obvious picks in Leo and Jamal Adams, but you know what? 5 GMs passed on both players in those drafts, so maybe its not as obvious as you make it out to be. Even Darron Lee is appearing to turn the corner, PFF graded him at over 80 in his last game. Additionally, in Deon Simon, Robby Anderson, Peake, McGuire and Derrick Jones, Macc has done an nice job in the later rounds. 

The biggest issues with his drafts so far are the second and third round. Devin Smith and Lorenzo Mauldin have dealt with extensive injuries in the pros and neither dealt with injuries in college, so its not as if he could have foretold that the injuries would continue (ala Dee Milliner). That's just sh*tty luck. Hackenberg was an atrocity of a pick, but it is what it is. 

A bigger issue is Maccagnan sucks at prioritizing the premium positions: Edge Rusher, QB, LT and CB. Only one of those positions have been addressed in the 1st 2 rounds through 3 years and the pick was Hackenberg. 

Maccagnan has a decent eye for talent, that's why we have done ok in the late rounds and UDFA selections. His weakness is in roster construction, but as a 1st time GM, shouldn't that have been expected? 

Let the guy grow into his job a little bit. 

I agree, but I think he could use help-a Holmgren, Shanahan.  Macc can succeed to President.   The ultimate head of football cannot be Johnsons and Glat. 

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Lets say we have a dumpster fire of a season and finish 1-15, get the #1 overall pick and have our choice of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Falk, etc.  What kind of environment will we have here to develop a QB.  Look at all of the #1 overall picks in the last 35 years.  Only 4 have gone on the win Super Bowls: Elway, Aikman and the 2 Mannings.  Of those 4, I would only consider Elway & P Manning to be generational talents who would have succeeded regardless of situation.  

If we cannot put together a competent offensive line, add some decent weapons both in the backfield and on the outside, then we are probably more likely to end up with Jamarcus Russell, David Carr or Tim Couch as we are to end up with a Manning or Elway.

Only way I would be comfortable with Macc returning to oversee the "build" part of the rebuild is if we begin to see significant development of a competent young core on the offensive side of the ball.  If by the end of this season two average to above average tackles emerge from Shell/Ijalana/Qvale/Beachum and if a guy like Robby Anderson emerges as a potential #1 or #2 to pair with Enunwa while one or two of Peake/Hansen/Stewart/Harper/Marshall emerge to give us some depth at WR behind a legit top 2.  Maybe a guy like ASJ finallly lives up to his potential.  Not everything has to fall in place perfectly, but in my opinion, we need to see significant progress in some of these areas for me to be confident in Macc as the guy to build around a young potential franchise QB.

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

Lets say we have a dumpster fire of a season and finish 1-15, get the #1 overall pick and have our choice of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Falk, etc.  What kind of environment will we have here to develop a QB.  Look at all of the #1 overall picks in the last 35 years.  Only 4 have gone on the win Super Bowls: Elway, Aikman and the 2 Mannings.  Of those 4, I would only consider Elway & P Manning to be generational talents who would have succeeded regardless of situation.  

If we cannot put together a competent offensive line, add some decent weapons both in the backfield and on the outside, then we are probably more likely to end up with Jamarcus Russell, David Carr or Tim Couch as we are to end up with a Manning or Elway.

Only way I would be comfortable with Macc returning to oversee the "build" part of the rebuild is if we begin to see significant development of a competent young core on the offensive side of the ball.  If by the end of this season two average to above average tackles emerge from Shell/Ijalana/Qvale/Beachum and if a guy like Robby Anderson emerges as a potential #1 or #2 to pair with Enunwa while one or two of Peake/Hansen/Stewart/Harper/Marshall emerge to give us some depth at WR behind a legit top 2.  Maybe a guy like ASJ finallly lives up to his potential.  Not everything has to fall in place perfectly, but in my opinion, we need to see significant progress in some of these areas for me to be confident in Macc as the guy to build around a young potential franchise QB.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (idk why) but I would THINK that once they drafted their QB at #1, they would begin to build around him. Investing high picks and big money in FA to support him. Doing what they have to do the following year to get the top WR, etc etc. 

I'd honestly feel way more comfortable with an offensive HC then Bowles still lingering around trying to push for a top CB or something. 

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13 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (idk why) but I would THINK that once they drafted their QB at #1, they would begin to build around him. Investing high picks and big money in FA to support him. Doing what they have to do the following year to get the top WR, etc etc. 

I'd honestly feel way more comfortable with an offensive HC then Bowles still lingering around trying to push for a top CB or something. 

I would much rather he push for a CB than S or ILB.

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8 hours ago, dbatesman said:

His no-brainer picks weren't actually no-brainers, he's horrible in the second and third rounds, he's clueless when it comes to positional value, but come on we gotta let the guy grow into his job a little bit

Then what is the ******* point of continuing to hire first time GMs and coaches? So that we can fire them if they aren't all starts right off the bat? That's a hell of a way to run a business. 

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7 hours ago, Lith said:

Lets say we have a dumpster fire of a season and finish 1-15, get the #1 overall pick and have our choice of Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Falk, etc.  What kind of environment will we have here to develop a QB.  Look at all of the #1 overall picks in the last 35 years.  Only 4 have gone on the win Super Bowls: Elway, Aikman and the 2 Mannings.  Of those 4, I would only consider Elway & P Manning to be generational talents who would have succeeded regardless of situation.  

If we cannot put together a competent offensive line, add some decent weapons both in the backfield and on the outside, then we are probably more likely to end up with Jamarcus Russell, David Carr or Tim Couch as we are to end up with a Manning or Elway.

Only way I would be comfortable with Macc returning to oversee the "build" part of the rebuild is if we begin to see significant development of a competent young core on the offensive side of the ball.  If by the end of this season two average to above average tackles emerge from Shell/Ijalana/Qvale/Beachum and if a guy like Robby Anderson emerges as a potential #1 or #2 to pair with Enunwa while one or two of Peake/Hansen/Stewart/Harper/Marshall emerge to give us some depth at WR behind a legit top 2.  Maybe a guy like ASJ finallly lives up to his potential.  Not everything has to fall in place perfectly, but in my opinion, we need to see significant progress in some of these areas for me to be confident in Macc as the guy to build around a young potential franchise QB.

I think that is a reasonable barometer of success. All those things can happen and we can still go 1-15 due to the QB situation. 

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Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

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1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

This is completely right.  

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3 hours ago, Pcola said:

Mauldin is not going to get Macc fired.  Devin Smith, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, none are going to get Macc fired.  

Drafting Hack is going to get Macc fired.  And not totally because he is not an NFL QB, but, because drafting him forced the team to pass on Lynch, Prescott, Kessler, Watson, Mahomes, Kizer, Peterman and prevented him from trading up for Trubisky.  All of which look head and shoulders better than the what we are trotting out there.

The Hack pick was ineptitude at its worst.  

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