Game Observations (NYG)

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Forget Adams. And all the obvious ones. I would like an answer as to how a team that hasn't had a pass rusher since John Abraham missed on Victor Beasley. And there will never be an answer more satisfactory than eh, Leonard Williams, ya know, had to do it. And that is bullsh*t.

Agree on the bullsh*t. Seems to always happen too.

Why cant the Jets take the pass rusher the Steelers took in round 1 at 6? Because of mock drafts? da fuq

[HawkeyeJet]

35 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Why does everyone want to trade Richardson.  This team has 2.5 good players, and he is one of them.

The only reason I would want to is because he is likely going to be gone after this year anyway.  Unless they can somehow get rid of Mo and his contract, you basically have to choose between Williams and Richardson.  I don't think it's feasible to pay all 3.

[Jetmech]

Hack wasn't as bad as people are saying. I'm curious how he looks next week against the scrubs.

McCown is starting but it won't be long before Hack gets in there..

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Charlie Brown]

4 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

For all intents and purposes he's a rookie. He got almost no snaps last year and he has a new offense this year. It's how rookies look starting for the 1st time against 1st string defenses . 

Let's look at the star rookie QB's from this years draft for comparison in this weeks action:

 

Mahomes :  8-15 70 yds 53.3% 0 Td 0 Int

Kizer        : 6-18  93 yds 33.3% 0 Td 1 Int

Watson    : 11-21 116 yds 52.4% 0 Td 1 Int

Hack       : 12-21  126 yds 57.1% 1 Td 2 Int

Take away the pick that was all on Anderson and Hack's stats are all better than the anointed Qb's we "passed' on in this years draft.

Its a learning curve , the more snaps Hack gets the better he will be, the game will slow down more. for him, but this fan base has no patience at all.   

And though I don't think that Hack played well; not one of those other QBs are performing behind a line as awful as the NYJ!!

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The only reason I would want to is because he is likely going to be gone after this year anyway.  Unless they can somehow get rid of Mo and his contract, you basically have to choose between Williams and Richardson.  I don't think it's feasible to pay all 3.

No you don't you have to choose between Wilk, and Richardson.  Wilkerson can be cut after this year with little to minimal dead cap hit.  Leo will be a Jet for like, and in the Jets ring of Honor one day there is no choosing with him.

[Hael]

I don't care about the QB play, its clear that Hack/Petty and McCown will likely not be on our team 3 years from now.  I'm more interested in how everyone else looks, and in particular how our young players perform, which will form the foundation of any future team.

On that level, this game was very frustrating.  Our two rookie safeties looked like well rookies, and its clear our young cbs are jags (McDougle is now gone).  Worse, the lbing core look like they won't be with our team very long as Lee and Mauldin are looking like total busts.

The DL looks just like last year, namely that other than Richardson are unable to pass rush effectively (Wilkerson does not look like the same player he used to be, and Leo still doesn't have pass rush moves).  Also, for being such big powerful players, we give up a surprising amount of big rushes...   There's too much money and talent spent on that spot, and the production just isn't what it should be (likely due to chemistry issues).

On offense, all of our skill position players are at best #2 or #3s and were easily handled by the first string corners, basically never creating separation.  Only the old rbs look like they can play (and that's another problem, as its unlikely Forte or Powell will be the same when this team actually has a chance to be good in a few years).  The OL clearly lost talent relative to last year, and it shows.  Very little youth, talent, and quite a bit of money spent.  

So yea, this is what rock bottom is..  The good news is that it can only get better, and what a rebuild always looks like.  

 

 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

The best players always fall to us. 

Dee Milliner,Vernon Gholston,Kyle Wilson,Quinton Coples all #1s who say hi. 

Jets GMs lazy. "He fell take him!"

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

No you don't you have to choose between Wilk, and Richardson.  Wilkerson can be cut after this year with little to minimal dead cap hit.  Leo will be a Jet for like, and in the Jets ring of Honor one day there is no choosing with him.

Cutting Wilk would be an epic failure.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

I was thinking the same thing last night! They showed replays of the sacks & him being chased from the snap & im thinking, how in the hell do you evaluate a young QB in this league against starting defenses like the Giants if your own offensive line is GARBAGE!

Seriously! Did he miss some passes? Yes, he overthrough to a wide open TE. This idea that he's some finished product after red shirting last year is hilarious. We have 1 WR ( a 2nd year UDFA that gets open) and a bunch of neophytes & another TE that was unceremoniously cut after being found drunk in his car sitting in his own sh*t and you guys have thrown in the towel, lol.

This fan base really sucks & im not sitting here saying don't draft Darnold if we get the 1st pick, I'm just saying instant analysis is retarded. All I read on this site is how Macc has ignored the offense & how we don't have 1 player on offense that would start for any other franchise in this league but in spite of ALL THAT we can all judge the future career of a guy that just turned 22 years old learning on the fly running this ship wreck of an offense with what might be a bottom 5 offensive line.

As Charlie Brown says here...GOOD GRIEF!

Agree except I think you left out the usual overrating the backup QB who is playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers.  

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Cutting Wilk would be an epic failure.

Cut Wilk sign Richardson if Wilk looks like the same dog as he looked last year, and Sheldon looks like the Sheldon we knew before Bowles decided he was a OLB, and MLB.  Use the Wilk money for an edge rusher.  Epic success.

[SOJ]

7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Hopefully Sheldon keeps playing the way he has, maybe a trade market would develop for him again.

Very encouraging performance from Stewart.  I thought he was an underrated player at Alabama.  Hopefully he is rounding into form after missing time.

Should trade the useless "P" Wilk, who is still getting blocked one on one.. I say cut him if he doesn't get better and franchise Rich.  he is all round better ...

[SOJ]

7 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

For all intents and purposes he's a rookie. He got almost no snaps last year and he has a new offense this year. It's how rookies look starting for the 1st time against 1st string defenses . 

Let's look at the star rookie QB's from this years draft for comparison in this weeks action:

 

Mahomes :  8-15 70 yds 53.3% 0 Td 0 Int

Kizer        : 6-18  93 yds 33.3% 0 Td 1 Int

Watson    : 11-21 116 yds 52.4% 0 Td 1 Int

Hack       : 12-21  126 yds 57.1% 1 Td 2 Int

Take away the pick that was all on Anderson and Hack's stats are all better than the anointed Qb's we "passed' on in this years draft.

Its a learning curve , the more snaps Hack gets the better he will be, the game will slow down more. for him, but this fan base has no patience at all.   

The andersen pick was on hack, he delivered the ball late as usual and that was his 1st option. 

[SOJ]

7 hours ago, Tinstar said:

I would actually leave him in as the starter and see if he sinks (gets Injured) or swims (figure it out )  I happen to think Hack is a better QB than Petty even thou the results show the opposite . The biggest difference right now is that Hackenberg is not making his decisions quickly enough .  He recognizes what he's looking at across the LOS, but everything is just 2 seconds slow . 

Didn't people say that about Gino too?

[56mehl56]

13 minutes ago, SOJ said:

The andersen pick was on hack, he delivered the ball late as usual and that was his 1st option. 

I don't care how late the ball was Anderson had it squarely in his hands , he has to make that catch. If Petty threw that same pass 3/4's of teh board would be defending him on that. 

[C Mart]

6 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Agreed. Only thing to improve reaction time is experience in games. I was happy to see he battled bafk after being put back in. He didnt pout and crumble. He took them in for a  2:00 min td drive. I give him credit.

His pick 6 was AWFUL. He stared at wr for like 3 seconds. Looked like he was a high school kid. But I also saw John Elway throw the same pick 6 to Mo Lewis in '94

We'll never know but there's a good chance Hack makes that same throw in the 4th qtr and that doesn't get picked. 

Thats the difference between going against 1s vs 2/3s. Game is faster. Will it slow down for Hack, which takes time? We'll see. 

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

We'll never know but there's a good chance Hack makes that same throw in the 4th qtr and that doesn't get picked. 

Thats the difference between going against 1s vs 2/3s. Game is faster. Will it slow down for Hack, which takes time? We'll see. 

That's something fans say that's actually incorrect . The game doesn't slow down, the QB catches up to the speed of the game through repetition .  All yu have to do to notice the difference between Hackenberg and Petty is observe what happens at the LOS pre-snap .  It's why 1 guy gets to play against the starters and the other doesn't .

[C Mart]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

That's something fans say that's actually incorrect . The game doesn't slow down, the QB catches up to the speed of the game through repetition .  All yu have to do to notice the difference between Hackenberg and Petty is observe what happens at the LOS pre-snap .  It's why 1 guy gets to play against the starters and the other doesn't .

Ok. I hear what you're saying. 

[C Mart]

37 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

That's something fans say that's actually incorrect . The game doesn't slow down, the QB catches up to the speed of the game through repetition .  All yu have to do to notice the difference between Hackenberg and Petty is observe what happens at the LOS pre-snap .  It's why 1 guy gets to play against the starters and the other doesn't .

Based on many many comments here in JN regarding QBs I'm not embarrassed by asking this ?  

What is Hack doing at LOS pre-snap vs what Petty is or isn't doing? Thnx 

[Charlie Brown]

10 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

The Jets are a complete joke. Their receivers are equivalent to 2nd and 3rd stringers on any other team in the NFL. Running backs are mediocre. Offensive line is inconsistent when not downright incompetent. Defense is serviceable but also shows lack of discipline and rawness -- missed tackles, poor coverage, even when they're in stride with the receiver. I could go on. Notice I haven't even mentioned the QB. Hack is way over his head at this point and not even close to ready for the pro's. Petty is decent, but lapses into rookie mistakes. McGown will be his journeyman self. The Jets are in for a world of hurt this year. I honestly can't see them winning anything, but sheer luck will award them a game or two. Just a dreadful team.

Welcome to the real world.....

We've been waiting...

And all we can say is listen back and ..

 

[Tinstar]

11 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Based on many many comments here in JN regarding QBs I'm not embarrassed by asking this ?  

What is Hack doing at LOS pre-snap vs what Petty is or isn't doing? Thnx 

One of those guys with the play clips can provide the evidence , but there is a lot more identifying and redirecting  .  It might just be me being bias, but I think Hack understands what the defense is attempting better than Petty, but his reaction time is slow getting the correct adjustment .

[nycdan]

14 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Based on many many comments here in JN regarding QBs I'm not embarrassed by asking this ?  

What is Hack doing at LOS pre-snap vs what Petty is or isn't doing? Thnx 

I'm far from an expert on this, but I'll take a stab to get it started. 

What he should be doing is diagnosing the defense (Man, Cover-0, Cover-2, etc.), deciding if he thinks they will blitz and from where, looking for mismatches, and possibly changing the play if he sees conditions that warrant it.  Assuming the Center is calling the protection, he needs to hear and understand that as well.  I don't know how much leeway the Jets are giving him at the line (can he call one of two or more plays based on his assessment) so again, it's hard to know where the fault is when a play goes south.  

I think if you watch their eyes and listen to their calls up to the snap, you might see a difference but I don't have the film to compare it.  It would be interesting to compare them to more successful QBs as well.  I'm a man of simple tastes.  To me, if they run or do a quick dump-off to the RB against a pass-blitz, or the QB hits a WR in single coverage, or get 5-8 yards on a crossing pattern in open space across the middle, he probably did more right than wrong.

[C Mart]

11 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I'm far from an expert on this, but I'll take a stab to get it started. 

What he should be doing is diagnosing the defense (Man, Cover-0, Cover-2, etc.), deciding if he thinks they will blitz and from where, looking for mismatches, and possibly changing the play if he sees conditions that warrant it.  Assuming the Center is calling the protection, he needs to hear and understand that as well.  I don't know how much leeway the Jets are giving him at the line (can he call one of two or more plays based on his assessment) so again, it's hard to know where the fault is when a play goes south.  

I think if you watch their eyes and listen to their calls up to the snap, you might see a difference but I don't have the film to compare it.  It would be interesting to compare them to more successful QBs as well.  I'm a man of simple tastes.  To me, if they run or do a quick dump-off to the RB against a pass-blitz, or the QB hits a WR in single coverage, or get 5-8 yards on a crossing pattern in open space across the middle, he probably did more right than wrong.

Good info. Thnx. I don't know just how much they have put on Hack's plate. But I do remember hearing Jim Miller, who has played in this system and had Bates as one of his coaches in TB, said the QB makes the protection calls. 

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

Good info. Thnx. I don't know just how much they have put on Hack's plate. But I do remember hearing Jim Miller, who has played in this system and had Bates as one of his coaches in TB, said the QB makes the protection calls. 

I'm curious about that as well.  Not sure what the advantages of that are, especially with a young QB.  But it's not like we have Mangold in there anymore.  

There are a lot of good articles and videos about QB pre-snap reads.  They talk about how important the Safeties are in diagnosing what is happening.  Then you'll get into odd vs. even DL fronts.  The more you read, the more you realize how much they should be able to process in under 5 seconds and how much that ability impacts what happens after the snap.  If my son had stayed with football, I'd probably have learned a lot more about it, but instead, I spent hundreds of hours watching videos on pitching.  And then volleyball techniques for my daughter.  I can talk about those all day

 

[C Mart]

23 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

One of those guys with the play clips can provide the evidence , but there is a lot more identifying and redirecting  .  It might just be me being bias, but I think Hack understands what the defense is attempting better than Petty, but his reaction time is slow getting the correct adjustment .

Yeah you could be right. May explain why he's been viewed as the #2 in TC. He may have a better grasp behind the scenes, in meetings, chalkboard/film work than Petty. All I know is it's crazy giving up on a 22 yr old kid w/that much talent. Will he put it all together? Who knows. It's worth a few yrs to find out. 

[bostonmajet]

I respect KRLs input; probably more than any of the NY media, but ... Yeah, Petty looks better and is probably more comfortable, but Hack was playing against the 1s; yep he sucked and played poorly, but when Hack went back in for Petty, had was able to march down field and score the TD. Just saying, playing against the 2s and 3s make a big difference. The WRs in the first half got NO separation. In the 3rd and 4th, they were getting college level open. Maybe it is the play calling, maybe the confidence they have in Petty, I don't know, but there was clearly a huge drop off in talent from the Giant 1st and 3rd string DL and DBs.

Also, not sure what QB would have looked good given the porous OL and lack or running game. Add in the fact, he couldn't catch a break. He gets a good long ball down field and they absolutely mug Robbie with no flag. When the Giants commentators is crying for the flag, you know it is bad. They score a TD after that play and that could have been all of the difference. The second INT bounced out of the receiver's hands and into the DBs. 

Yes, Hack didn't impress me, but the real problem with their offense is the lack of experience at WR/TE and the absolutely terrible OL.

[56mehl56]

40 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I respect KRLs input; probably more than any of the NY media, but ... Yeah, Petty looks better and is probably more comfortable, but Hack was playing against the 1s; yep he sucked and played poorly, but when Hack went back in for Petty, had was able to march down field and score the TD. Just saying, playing against the 2s and 3s make a big difference. The WRs in the first half got NO separation. In the 3rd and 4th, they were getting college level open. Maybe it is the play calling, maybe the confidence they have in Petty, I don't know, but there was clearly a huge drop off in talent from the Giant 1st and 3rd string DL and DBs.

Also, not sure what QB would have looked good given the porous OL and lack or running game. Add in the fact, he couldn't catch a break. He gets a good long ball down field and they absolutely mug Robbie with no flag. When the Giants commentators is crying for the flag, you know it is bad. They score a TD after that play and that could have been all of the difference. The second INT bounced out of the receiver's hands and into the DBs. 

Yes, Hack didn't impress me, but the real problem with their offense is the lack of experience at WR/TE and the absolutely terrible OL.

All those are true, but unlike a few years back when Sanchez was throwing to guys like Mardy Gilyard, Chaz Schillens, Clyde Gates, David Nelson, the Wr's now are young players who have the capability to improve. I like what I've seen out of Chad Hansen, Stewart, Robbie Anderson and ASJ can be a huge factor if he has his head on straight. The Oline should get better as the games go on , remember they've has some changes and they too are learning a new offense. 

[legler82]

11 hours ago, Larz said:

Collins and JPP would have made petty look very different, let's be honest

Those two are all pro possibilities

Exactly, in that first INT Landon Collins baited Hack. Whether it was an actual defensive call or individual brilliance, Collins disguised his flat responsibility giving Hack the appearance that it was open. It didn't help Hack did not make any attempt to manipulate with his eyes. By the time Hack was set to throw, Collins was already on his way to cut in front of the pass. I'm not going to get butt hurt over a potential NFL MVP candidate fooling what essentially amounts to a rookie QB. Now if Hack were to get fooled repeatedly in future games by that same look, then there would be cause for concern.

[legler82]

6 hours ago, SOJ said:

The andersen pick was on hack, he delivered the ball late as usual and that was his 1st option. 

A.  If a ball hits a PROFESSIONAL receiver's hands and he drops it, it's his fault.

B.  "as usual"?  Hack has a reputation already?  Don't believe everything TV color commentators spew out especially when they are the Giants local crew.  That ball was not late.  Hack has many faults but routinely throwing the ball late is not one of them.  That was and still is a Geno trait.

[legler82]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

One of those guys with the play clips can provide the evidence , but there is a lot more identifying and redirecting  .  It might just be me being bias, but I think Hack understands what the defense is attempting better than Petty, but his reaction time is slow getting the correct adjustment .

While I do believe Hack came into the league more adept at understanding what defenses are attempting to do pre-snap than Petty, he is getting fooled out there.  It's not just reaction if that at all.  That sack fumble against the Lions is a perfect example.  He slid protection to his blind side because the Lions made him think that's where the free man would be coming from but it ended being the complete opposite post-snap.  There were a couple more examples in the Giants game.  Hopefully, when is fooled, he's also being "schooled" so to speak, meaning he is learning from these experiences; that's all you can ask for.

[legler82]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

I'm far from an expert on this, but I'll take a stab to get it started. 

What he should be doing is diagnosing the defense (Man, Cover-0, Cover-2, etc.), deciding if he thinks they will blitz and from where, looking for mismatches, and possibly changing the play if he sees conditions that warrant it.  Assuming the Center is calling the protection, he needs to hear and understand that as well.  I don't know how much leeway the Jets are giving him at the line (can he call one of two or more plays based on his assessment) so again, it's hard to know where the fault is when a play goes south.  

I think if you watch their eyes and listen to their calls up to the snap, you might see a difference but I don't have the film to compare it.  It would be interesting to compare them to more successful QBs as well.  I'm a man of simple tastes.  To me, if they run or do a quick dump-off to the RB against a pass-blitz, or the QB hits a WR in single coverage, or get 5-8 yards on a crossing pattern in open space across the middle, he probably did more right than wrong.

Furthermore, coaches differ on what they want you to identify pre-snap.  He's been in 4 different offensive schemes in the last 5 years.  If he's still here next year, it may be 5 out of the last 6.  The most successful QBs stay in the same system for years.  The system becomes second nature and they are able to focus on the nuances.

[legler82]

1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

I respect KRLs input; probably more than any of the NY media, but ... Yeah, Petty looks better and is probably more comfortable, but Hack was playing against the 1s; yep he sucked and played poorly, but when Hack went back in for Petty, had was able to march down field and score the TD. Just saying, playing against the 2s and 3s make a big difference. The WRs in the first half got NO separation. In the 3rd and 4th, they were getting college level open. Maybe it is the play calling, maybe the confidence they have in Petty, I don't know, but there was clearly a huge drop off in talent from the Giant 1st and 3rd string DL and DBs.

Also, not sure what QB would have looked good given the porous OL and lack or running game. Add in the fact, he couldn't catch a break. He gets a good long ball down field and they absolutely mug Robbie with no flag. When the Giants commentators is crying for the flag, you know it is bad. They score a TD after that play and that could have been all of the difference. The second INT bounced out of the receiver's hands and into the DBs. 

Yes, Hack didn't impress me, but the real problem with their offense is the lack of experience at WR/TE and the absolutely terrible OL.

No doubt about it Petty is more comfortable in the offense and it suits him better than it does Hack.

[NYs Stepchild]

To me it was more about ball placement. Maybe it's just one game but Petty's balls were mostly all perfectly placed to get receivers out of trouble, and keep them moving. 

Even at the end of the game Hack's balls were all late and off target. It seemed to me to be his mechanics breaking down again. 

The pick six was in the receivers hands but was over his head and had the db not gone for the ball he would have put Anderson on IR. 

You see what happens when you put the ball right out in front of a receiver hand high on Powell's 80 yard TD. You see what happens when you make them turn around on Forte's 2 yard gain. 

Petty was just like Hack last year in preseason. maybe Hack relaxes and starts to put some touch on his balls but right now he seems much too tightly wound. I think all his problems stem from there. He needs to relax and just play. 

[bostonmajet]

10 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

All those are true, but unlike a few years back when Sanchez was throwing to guys like Mardy Gilyard, Chaz Schillens, Clyde Gates, David Nelson, the Wr's now are young players who have the capability to improve. I like what I've seen out of Chad Hansen, Stewart, Robbie Anderson and ASJ can be a huge factor if he has his head on straight. The Oline should get better as the games go on , remember they've has some changes and they too are learning a new offense. 

I agree the new WRs have a lot of potential. It is just going to be hard to watch especially in the beginning of the season. I think the OL, on the other hand, is bereft of talent and not likely to show much improvement - we need a serious upgrade next year.

[C Mart]

Rick Murphy (@rickm127)

8/27/17, 4:57 PM

@MccloughanScot when shoul i start to worry about this offense?
#httr

Scot Mccloughan (@MccloughanScot)

8/28/17, 3:40 PM

It's just preseason and Jay is being basic scheme wise. All teams do it. twitter.com/rickm127/statu…