On Bowles and QBs....how to be at peace

[JohnnyLV]

It occurred to me today that I should not be frustrated or angry or upset at the QB situation. It is what it is, and we should know from the start what we are getting.

Just need to accept the truth and move on. Just accept what you have no control over.

And here is the truth:

As long as Bowles is coach, he will ALWAYS play a veteran QB.

This year it is McClown.  Next year it will be McClown or someone else. Barring injury, neither Hackenberg or Petty will ever start here. If McClown completely implodes, we may see some Hack after we are mathematically eliminated, but if he is still coach next year, he;; find another retread QB to "win" the competition and be named starter.

It just is what it is, and wont change until Bowles is gone. Even then, Woody tends to hire pretty much the same coach each time, so even then things won't likely change.

In an actual competition Petty would have won. but he was not even under real consideration.

Just accept it and move on. I have wasted way too much energy on the whole thing.

 

 

[dbatesman]

A few more koans:

all of our QBs are terrible

we have no apparent plan to improve the position

Maccagnan is far and away the worst GM in the league

no one with a shred of credibility or competence will ever work for Woody Johnson

go Jets

[#27TheDominator]

Zen and the Art of Being a Jets Fan

[Jetdawgg]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

A few more koans:

all of our QBs are terrible

we have no apparent plan to improve the position

Maccagnan is far and away the worst GM in the league

no one with a shred of credibility or competence will ever work for Woody Johnson

go Jets

 

[rangerous]

5 hours ago, dbatesman said:

A few more koans:

all of our QBs are terrible

we have no apparent plan to improve the position

Maccagnan is far and away the worst GM in the league

no one with a shred of credibility or competence will ever work for Woody Johnson

go Jets

does maccagnan need your approval to make trades or pick players?  thought not.  the whole point is we as fans do not have a need to know.  maybe mac is the worst or maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely. i didn't exactly hear the boo birds midway through the 2015 season.

[dbatesman]

21 minutes ago, rangerous said:

does maccagnan need your approval to make trades or pick players?  thought not.  the whole point is we as fans do not have a need to know.  maybe mac is the worst or maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely. i didn't exactly hear the boo birds midway through the 2015 season.

True, all the indefensibly dumb sh*t he's done may turn out to be super smart. Hadn't thought of it that way

[Lupz27]

43 minutes ago, rangerous said:

does maccagnan need your approval to make trades or pick players?  thought not.  the whole point is we as fans do not have a need to know.  maybe mac is the worst or maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely. i didn't exactly hear the boo birds midway through the 2015 season.

You weren't listening loud enough then.  I know I sure as sh*t was booing all through 2015, that was the year that set this train wreck in motion, and I saw it coming, and was not blinded by the cheap easy wins like others.

[rangerous]

26 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

You weren't listening loud enough then.  I know I sure as sh*t was booing all through 2015, that was the year that set this train wreck in motion, and I saw it coming, and was not blinded by the cheap easy wins like others.

good for you.  i was pretty happy watching them win no matter how they did it. i was also happy they re-signed fitz and started him over genot in 2016.  i'm not so concerned about the level of competition because outside of maybe 3 or 4 teams there just aren't that many scary ones.

[joewilly12]

43 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

You weren't listening loud enough then.  I know I sure as sh*t was booing all through 2015, that was the year that set this train wreck in motion, and I saw it coming, and was not blinded by the cheap easy wins like others.

Exactly the same way I felt when the rah-rah crowd all supported Ryan Fitzpatrick beating the weakest teams in the NFL and acting like we were a good team, we weren't we just beat the teams worse than us.  Here we are today the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL on the door step of possibly the worst season in NY Jets history with the worst roster in the NFL and the worst coaching staff and GM.  Damn you NY Jets. 

[Pcola]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

does maccagnan need your approval to make trades or pick players?  thought not.  the whole point is we as fans do not have a need to know.  maybe mac is the worst or maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely. i didn't exactly hear the boo birds midway through the 2015 season.

Well the only relevant players still here from mid-2015 are on the D-Line.

And you're right, "maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely."  It's just so few of his decisions have worked out.  His decisions have been for short term returns and have hurt the team's long term outlook.

And all successful GMs have one thing in common: they find a QB.  Bill Polian was trash in Indy.  But since he had Manning, he was regarded as a great GM.  

In today's NFL, a GM can build a team that includes the #1 defense in the league and still get judged and fired in how they handle the QB position.

[Pcola]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Exactly the same way I felt when the rah-rah crowd all supported Ryan Fitzpatrick beating the weakest teams in the NFL and acting like we were a good team, we weren't we just beat the teams worse than us.  Here we are today the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL on the door step of possibly the worst season in NY Jets history with the worst roster in the NFL and the worst coaching staff and GM.  Damn you NY Jets. 

I am with you.  But if we end of being the worst team in the league with the worst record in the league it will be an improvement.  Too often in the past decade, we have been the worst team in the league with the 6th worst record.

[rangerous]

Just now, Pcola said:

Well the only relevant players still here from mid-2015 are on the D-Line.

And you're right, "maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely."  It's just so few of his decisions have worked out.  His decisions have been for short term returns and have hurt the team's long term outlook.

And all successful GMs have one thing in common: they find a QB.  Bill Polian was trash in Indy.  But since he had Manning, he was regarded as a great GM.  

In today's NFL, a GM can build a team that includes the #1 defense in the league and still get judged and fired in how they handle the QB position.

true enough about the qb. how about stafford bankrupting his team?  imo the qb may be the most important player but he's not the only one.  there are qb's like griese and aikman and even starr who were exceptional on the teams they played on.  i can't say they would've had success elsewhere.  some of that is simply because players have short shelf lives but it's also because they need a good team around them.

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

does maccagnan need your approval to make trades or pick players?  thought not.  the whole point is we as fans do not have a need to know.  maybe mac is the worst or maybe one season soon all of the moves will pay off handsomely. i didn't exactly hear the boo birds midway through the 2015 season.

Maybe McCown will look so good up through the Browns game that Mac will trade him for the Browns 1st round pick next year.

I mean the Browns don't need it because they have The Kizer. 

[Larz]

I wonder if this is how the Cubs fans handled Theo's rebuild

[NYs Stepchild]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

I wonder if this is how the Cubs fans handled Theo's rebuild

Why, did he sit down a prospect and hire an over priced 38 year old pitcher? 

Did that pitcher win just enough games to knock them out of the running for a generational type pitching prospect?

[joewilly12]

12 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I am with you.  But if we end of being the worst team in the league with the worst record in the league it will be an improvement.  Too often in the past decade, we have been the worst team in the league with the 6th worst record.

Will we?  How many #1 picks and other draft picks have we blown, players that should be helping this team this season win a championship. 

[Lupz27]

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

true enough about the qb. how about stafford bankrupting his team?  imo the qb may be the most important player but he's not the only one.  there are qb's like griese and aikman and even starr who were exceptional on the teams they played on.  i can't say they would've had success elsewhere.  some of that is simply because players have short shelf lives but it's also because they need a good team around them.

Stafford will count for less then 10% of the Lions salary cap how is that bankrupting them?

 

[nycdan]

So...depressing thought of the day.

What if we finish with the worst record and draft Darnold.  Sounds great!  Only we still have Bowles as HC.  And he wants to start an old vet and draft more defensive players in rounds 2-5.  Because Darnold just didn't take the job away from the old vet.  Maybe he'll 'waste' a 5th rounder on OL.  Then he'll get up in front of the press and tell them how we'll have an open competition and the best OL will rise to the top.  Darnold will have to come in by week 4 and have a broken wrist by week 6.

Are we really any better off?  

Yeah, I'm all doom and gloom this evening.  Don't mind me.

 

[Larz]

11 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Why, did he sit down a prospect and hire an over priced 38 year old pitcher? 

Did that pitcher win just enough games to knock them out of the running for a generational type pitching prospect?

26 year olds are no longer prospects

This board is unreadable already.

Good luck max

 

[NYs Stepchild]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

26 year olds are no longer prospects

This board is unreadable already.

Good luck max

 

Thanks troll. 3rd year QB from a spread offense. Colleges do that now

Get used to it. Sorry that times have changed and passed you by. 

[rangerous]

7 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Stafford will count for less then 10% of the Lions salary cap how is that bankrupting them?

 

still, for all of stafford's talents, the lions barely play 500 football.  and with caldwell as coach they'l be lucky to win more than 8.

[JetFreak89]

26 year olds are no longer prospects
This board is unreadable already.
Good luck max
 

I think his point went over your head. You are so anti-Petty that you are making posts about him that aren't.

He is talking about losing out on a top QB in the draft, not him playing over Petty.


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[thshadow]

Bowles might be an idiot, but I think the fact of the matter is that *any* coach in his situation would do whatever he can to be 7-9.  He knows he's getting fired anyway, and so he needs it for his resume.

So even though *we* have a long term outlook - he doesn't.

 

[NYs Stepchild]

8 hours ago, thshadow said:

Bowles might be an idiot, but I think the fact of the matter is that *any* coach in his situation would do whatever he can to be 7-9.  He knows he's getting fired anyway, and so he needs it for his resume.

So even though *we* have a long term outlook - he doesn't.

 

A coach is not the Boss. Now you usually leave him alone to make these decisions but there are times like this where we have a conflict of interest. 

You either tell Bowles he's not getting fired or you tell him he is getting fired if he starts McC, or both. 

I personally would like him gone and would like to hire a coach that has an indoor and an out door voice. Why must we go to extremes here? 

We went from a coach that never shuts up to one that never speaks. One who turns everything into big drama to one that is fine with losing the locker room. 

[ZachEY]

11 hours ago, dbatesman said:

True, all the indefensibly dumb sh*t he's done may turn out to be super smart. Hadn't thought of it that way

Hey SOJF - Hack may still be Aaron Rodgers I mean do you even know about James Franco and have you heard of mechanics and Peyton's rookie year and redshirt basically a rookie.  Also no one could have seen Revis's decline and Earl Thomas and Deon Buchannon.  This is what rebuilding looks like have some patience.  Cupcakes and the media.

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, nycdan said:

So...depressing thought of the day.

What if we finish with the worst record and draft Darnold.  Sounds great!  Only we still have Bowles as HC.  And he wants to start an old vet and draft more defensive players in rounds 2-5.  Because Darnold just didn't take the job away from the old vet.  Maybe he'll 'waste' a 5th rounder on OL.  Then he'll get up in front of the press and tell them how we'll have an open competition and the best OL will rise to the top.  Darnold will have to come in by week 4 and have a broken wrist by week 6.

Are we really any better off?  

Yeah, I'm all doom and gloom this evening.  Don't mind me.

 

Has Bowles ever started an old vet over a QB who wasn't terrible?

[dbatesman]

28 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Hey SOJF - Hack may still be Aaron Rodgers I mean do you even know about James Franco and have you heard of mechanics and Peyton's rookie year and redshirt basically a rookie.  Also no one could have seen Revis's decline and Earl Thomas and Deon Buchannon.  This is what rebuilding looks like have some patience.  Cupcakes and the media.

lmfao at "James Franco"

[Kleckineau]

11 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Has Bowles ever started an old vet over a QB who wasn't terrible?

 

17 hours ago, johnnysd said:

It occurred to me today that I should not be frustrated or angry or upset at the QB situation. It is what it is, and we should know from the start what we are getting.

Just need to accept the truth and move on. Just accept what you have no control over.

And here is the truth:

As long as Bowles is coach, he will ALWAYS play a veteran QB.

This year it is McClown.  Next year it will be McClown or someone else. Barring injury, neither Hackenberg or Petty will ever start here. If McClown completely implodes, we may see some Hack after we are mathematically eliminated, but if he is still coach next year, he;; find another retread QB to "win" the competition and be named starter.

It just is what it is, and wont change until Bowles is gone. Even then, Woody tends to hire pretty much the same coach each time, so even then things won't likely change.

In an actual competition Petty would have won. but he was not even under real consideration.

Just accept it and move on. I have wasted way too much energy on the whole thing.

 

 

This coach clearly has a bias favoring terrible old vet QBs vs. terrible young QBs.

You would think someone on the hot seat like he is would take the shot and go against conventional coaching wisdom but he is either unwilling or incapable.

Personally I think starting Petty and winning 2 games could actually buy him another year or two in NY as opposed to trotting out McCown and winning 5 games.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Is what it is, I blame #15 as much as Bowles for Fitz starting last year and McCown should have been the expectation starting this year from the minute they signed that goofy $6m contract, only two things could have changed that; Jets drafted a QB in the first round (did not happen) or hack recovered from the 101 sacks that his fanboys said defined his last two years in happy valley (did not happen) so this is the best of the terrible QB options...

Bowles has to develop players around the QB and based on camp, the OL needs to learn to work as a unit and the young WR's need to learn to catch balls and run routes - McCown can help them more than Petty (Decker and Mangold could have helped too but...) 

Petty and Hack will both get their chance based on McCown's age and health history and the state of the team (bad)

 

[MaxAF]

No HC, GM or franchise throws in the towel before the season starts to draft an unknown potential DP. Some people on JN just don't get that. Winning is all that matters. This is a rebuild but the players and staff will do everything possible to win. Millions of $$$ are spent on players and coaches to win. That's the goal, that's the game. So the Jets may go 2-14 or 6-10 or whatever but they will "play to win the game". If you ever played competitive sports you don't play to lose. You hate losing. I hate losing. Losing is well....for losers. Darnold may not even enter the draft next year and personally I don't give a rat's ass if he does or doesn't. Don't care if the Jets get him or don't. Can't give up on a QB by seeing him play 2 preseason games with a sh*tty O- line. Not every QB develops at the same time. He's a project. He will probably suck the first year or 2. Maybe he'll suk forever. It's still an unknown. Petty may develop to be a very good QB. Too many short sighted " QB experts" on JN lately. Let the rebuild play itself out. The Jets may actually be a contender in a couple years. Patience Jet brothers. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

This coach clearly has a bias favoring terrible old vet QBs vs. terrible young QBs.

You would think someone on the hot seat like he is would take the shot and go against conventional coaching wisdom but he is either unwilling or incapable.

Personally I think starting Petty and winning 2 games could actually buy him another year or two in NY as opposed to trotting out McCown and winning 5 games.

This isn't really true.

Year 1, Fitz was slated to be the back-up until Geno got IKO'd.  

Year 2, Fitz was the obvious starter once signed, as he'd just come off a 10-6 season, and so the team wasn't going to go back to Geno, Hack was trash, and Petty hadn't thrown an NFL pass.

Year 3, McCown is signed, and the team has now seen Petty, and for whatever reasons, does not believe he has any shot to start in this league, as evidenced by the practice reps/order and preseason playing time.  Whether we agree with it or not, it seems clear the team sees no future in Petty.  Hack was given every opportunity to win the job, but he sucks at football, so McCown gets the nod.

The only problem in all of this from Bowles perspective is why Petty has been dismissed entirely, and considering Bowles has an Offensive Coordinator, a QB coach, and a full staff watching game film and practices, while we have 6 games (which weren't particularly good) and Connor Hughes tweets, I'm going to trust that the staff knows something that we don't regarding his potential in the league.

So, ultimately, in the one year where Bowles had a real choice, his choices were all bad, and he probably made the right one.  As I've said before, it's not just about winning games.  In all likelihood, McCown gives all the Jets WRs and really most of the Jets offense the best chance to develop and succeed.  You want to blame someone for this, how about the guy who, going into his 3rd season of leadership, gives the HC the choice of Josh McCown, Christian Hackenberg, and Bryce Petty?

[Dunnie]

It is what it is ... and i am resigned to do my best not to let it demoralize me for the next 4 months or so. Maybe ill just tune in next May to the draft to see if McCown won his 5 games and we have dropped out of the top 5. And to see if the Pats have picked up Petty as a backup and they Texans have acquired Hack to further groom into a starter.

 

Playing McCown does absolutely nothing for the health and future of this franchise.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Kleckineau]

9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

This isn't really true.

Year 1, Fitz was slated to be the back-up until Geno got IKO'd.  

Year 2, Fitz was the obvious starter once signed, as he'd just come off a 10-6 season, and so the team wasn't going to go back to Geno, Hack was trash, and Petty hadn't thrown an NFL pass.

Year 3, McCown is signed, and the team has now seen Petty, and for whatever reasons, does not believe he has any shot to start in this league, as evidenced by the practice reps/order and preseason playing time.  Whether we agree with it or not, it seems clear the team sees no future in Petty.  Hack was given every opportunity to win the job, but he sucks at football, so McCown gets the nod.

The only problem in all of this from Bowles perspective is why Petty has been dismissed entirely, and considering Bowles has an Offensive Coordinator, a QB coach, and a full staff watching game film and practices, while we have 6 games (which weren't particularly good) and Connor Hughes tweets, I'm going to trust that the staff knows something that we don't regarding his potential in the league.

So, ultimately, in the one year where Bowles had a real choice, his choices were all bad, and he probably made the right one.  As I've said before, it's not just about winning games.  In all likelihood, McCown gives all the Jets WRs and really most of the Jets offense the best chance to develop and succeed.  You want to blame someone for this, how about the guy who, going into his 3rd season of leadership, gives the HC the choice of Josh McCown, Christian Hackenberg, and Bryce Petty?

It is true.

The current situation clearly reveals his bias.

If you care to rehash hx thats fine but knowing now what we didnt know then about this HC its safe to say if Geno didnt get punched and started out 1-4 he would have been yanked for the vet. Its what he does.

FWIW they did the same thing with Revis.

[ChuckkieB]

No matter how one tries to rationalize it or assume what Bowles actual strategy or philosophy is, the organization has cut ties with just about every veteran player to get long looks at the younger and more recent draft picks and FA signings in the hopes of rebuilding the franchise from within.  Most of us are completely on board with this,  That being said, how can the organization sit idly by and let their ignorant and stubborn head coach coach play the worst QB statistically speaking over the 3 years over either of their young QB's, no matter how unready they might be?  It's completely inconsistent with that the team is seemingly doing across the board and someone with authority within the organization has to slap Bowles in the face and tell him to start Petty or Hack. If McCown is still the starter for the home opener in week 3, there will be a fan revolt the likes we haven't seen in quite some time.  The boos will be raining from the heavens mercilessly with every snap McCown takes.  It will be completely embarrassing to the organization, and I can't believe that they don't recognize this.  

I have a very slim glimmer of hope that McCown will get the first two starts and Petty or Hack starts the rest of the way.  I just cannot believe they would let McCown start the home opener.  Even the Jets can't be that stupid, can they? 

[ZachEY]

Just now, Kleckineau said:

It is true.

The current situation clearly reveals his bias.

If you care to rehash hx thats fine but knowing now what we didnt know then about this HC its safe to say if Geno didnt get punched and started out 1-4 he would have been yanked for the vet. Its what he does.

FWIW they did the same thing with Revis.

The current situation involves the Jets starting the best QB on the roster.  That QB, unfortunately and thanks to the terrible job Macc has done at the position, happens to be the veteran.  Petty was dreadful when he played, and Hack should be on the practice squad.

Ultimately, if you're going to accuse someone of a bias, history is exactly what you have to be considering, and in Bowles short history, he was forced to start a veteran year one, all but forced to start the veteran in year two, and unfortunately, the veteran in year three is the only one who's demonstrated a shred of competence at this point.  If Petty or Hack didn't suck out loud, there's no reason to believe they wouldn't be starting.

Revis is an entirely different case, as his contract and the fact that he's likely going to the Hall of Fame, make him quite different than Josh McCown.