Darnold, Allen, Rosen

[Villain The Foe]

Couple of really nice TD passes, a couple really terrible INT's. 

[LionelRichie]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Couple of really nice TD passes, a couple really terrible INT's. 

Stanford probably had 15 missed tackles in that video.  i'd bet 1/2 of darnold's yardage was missed tackles.   

I watched a couple of USC games  last year and remember Darnold having a stronger arm.   At some point the "legend of darnold" may exceed his actual play.   2 weeks into the season my list starts and ends with Rosen and I was not a fan coming into the year.   

[legler82]

I've been trying to find the NFL comp for Darnold for the past 2 years and I think I finally found it.  It was right under my nose the whole time.  Brace yourselves; it's Ryan Fitzpatrick!  I've seen Darnold stand next to players listed as 6-4, he is NOT 6-4.  The eye test tells me he is closer to 6-2 which makes him the same size as Fitz.  Of course, he's more athletic (though Fitz's athleticism is underrated), has a stronger arm and better decision maker, we hope, but in terms of built, playing style and delivery they are very similar.  Essentially, he is Fitz on his best days.  If you put a Darnold tape and Fitz Jets "highlights" side by side the likeness is striking and it's not because of the #14.  Some of you Darnold worshipers may take this as some kind of slight but it's not.  I always felt that if Fitz's football IQ matched his actual IQ and had the arm talent to cash the checks that his mind would write he'd be one heck of a FQB.  Darnold may be this perfect blend.

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, legler82 said:

I've been trying to find the NFL comp for Darnold for the past 2 years and I think I finally found it.  It was right under my nose the whole time.  Brace yourselves; it's Ryan Fitzpatrick!  I've seen Darnold stand next to players listed as 6-4, he is NOT 6-4.  The eye test tells me he is closer to 6-2 which makes him the same size as Fitz.  Of course, he's more athletic (though Fitz's athleticism is underrated), has a stronger arm and better decision maker, we hope, but in terms of built, playing style and delivery they are very similar.  Essentially, he is Fitz on his best days.  If you put a Darnold tape and Fitz Jets "highlights" side by side the likeness is striking and it's not because of the #14.  Some of you Darnold worshipers may take this as some kind of slight but it's not.  I always felt that if Fitz's football IQ matched his actual IQ and had the arm talent to cash the checks that his mind would write he'd be one heck of a FQB.  Darnold may be this perfect blend.

You just ruined Darnold for me thanks.

[win4ever]

I have to say Rosen is really growing on me, I think he's progressed at a higher rate than I expected.  Rosen/Darnold is pretty much neck and neck to me, and I think coming into the year, I secretly had Darnold/Allen/Rosen as my pecking order. 

I love Rosen going through his reads, really reminds me of Luck at Stanford, albeit not quite the downfield arm.  

I'm still not sleeping on Jackson.  He's not going to be the pure passer such as Rosen/Darnold but man is he a match up nightmare for a defense.  He's looked better, and I think if he can keep his completion percentage higher, really reminds me of Mariota with less accuracy but still really good. 

[Villain The Foe]

18 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

Stanford probably had 15 missed tackles in that video.  i'd bet 1/2 of darnold's yardage was missed tackles.   

I watched a couple of USC games  last year and remember Darnold having a stronger arm.   At some point the "legend of darnold" may exceed his actual play.   2 weeks into the season my list starts and ends with Rosen and I was not a fan coming into the year.   

I think you have a strong point here. I'm not saying that Darnold is a bad qb, and I don't think you're saying that either, but I think we both believe he's a bit overrated

[legler82]

9 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

You just ruined Darnold for me thanks.

 

LOL...if it helps, I've also heard people compare him to Rodgers.  Though he lacks the same lightning quick release and arm strength, I think that's a good comp too.  His release speed and arm probably lies somewhere in between Fitzpatrick and Rodgers'.  At their best Rodgers, Fitzpatrick and Darnold all have that controlled frenetic play style with various degrees of talent of course; Fitz being the least talented, Rodgers the most and Darnold somewhere in the middle.  The question is he closer to Fitz than people want to admit and is it the talent at USC that are making people think that he is closer to Rodgers?   

 

I remember people saying that Mahomes wouldn't be able to "get away" with a lot of the crazy throws he attempted in college in the NFL.  I disagreed with that notion because I felt Mahomes had that rare arm talent to squeeze those same throws when the windows got tighter.  I can't say the same about Darnold.  As we've seen in his first 2 games, he is not getting away with it now.  Success in the NFL is about being self aware and knowing your limitations. 

[Philc1]

On 9/2/2017 at 2:17 PM, C Mart said:

You can see the talent but IMO he's going to need work/time. 

Allen has a monster arm.  He's a more athletic Flacco

[Philc1]

On 9/3/2017 at 5:27 PM, Dunnie said:

 

I have always like cousins ... he's a lot like Kenny O'brien but more elusive in he pocket.


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If we don't draft a qb next Spring because of Krik Friggin Cousins I'm no longer a Jets fan

 

Would be the dumbest move ever literally

[Paradis]

If Allen can't show up big tonight, you may as well strike his name off this thread.... (and add in Jackson)

Rosen on right now for those interested.

[Stark]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

If Allen can't show up big tonight, you may as well strike his name off this thread.... (and add in Jackson)

Rosen on right now for those interested.

Watching the UCLA v Memphis game. UCLA is sitting 7 defensive starters?!?  Not sure if injuries or what but that sucks. 

[Paradis]

Just now, Stark said:

Watching the UCLA v Memphis game. UCLA is sitting 7 defensive starters?!?  Not sure if injuries or what but that sucks. 

This should be a better game than expected. Ferguson and the tigers offense are better than advertised

[Pcola]

I thought Rosen was under a ton of pressure today, not only from the Memphis D, but from Memphis scoring at will.  It seemed UCLA was down 3 or 10 most of the game.

And as expected, when the running game wasn't effective Rosen was rattled and made at least 3 terrible throws.  I would say that he was just trying to do too much.

I still think the only options for the Jets at #1 is between Darnold and Rosen, with Darnold clearly ahead.  Read a scout's comp of Darnold as "Troy Aikman to a T."  I take it.  

Both Rudolph and Mayfield look incredible but I disregard what Rudolph is doing against the weaker teams.  I thought Pitt would at least put up a fight today, but that didn't happen.  And 500 yards and 5 TDs at half is not from a QB, but the offensive system they use.  Mayfield has everything you want in a QB except size and restraint.  I still think he will be a great pro, but he will have to go somewhere they can harness him in.  The Jets aren't that team.

I think Allen will stay in school.  He has size and arm strength very poor accuracy and still takes ill advised risked.  he needs another year and another draft that doesn't have so many other QB prospects in it.

Lamar Jackson will go down as one of the greatest college QBs ever.  But if the Jets take him, it will be a tragedy for him.  I think it's a long shot that he becomes a top 15 QB and in NY if he's not awesome out of the gate, the media will destroy him.

[Stark]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

This should be a better game than expected. Ferguson and the tigers offense are better than advertised

I agree. Down 7 defensive starters isn't helping or didn't help either

[Paradis]

Take Allen off this thread

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Paradis said:

Take Allen off this thread

And replace him with Mayfield. Mayfield should have never been left out of the top 3. He's been showing he's arguably the best QB in football for years. How many times must the man be a Heisman finalist before he gets the respect.

[Paradis]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

And replace him with Mayfield. Mayfield should have never been left out of the top 3. He's been showing he's arguably the best QB in football for years. How many times must the man be a Heisman finalist before he gets the respect.

eh, is he being undervalued? Sure, maybe.

But assuming the jets pick between #1-3, he's never going to be an option for us. We'd have to fall out of the running entirely for the top 2 before Mayfield and anyone else became a possibility

[LionelRichie]

19 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

And replace him with Mayfield. Mayfield should have never been left out of the top 3. He's been showing he's arguably the best QB in football for years. How many times must the man be a Heisman finalist before he gets the respect.

I am warming up to mayfield.   It will never happen but I would open to the jets taking Rosen 1 and mayfield at the top of the second rd. 

[JPPT1974]

Kind of do not want Rosen. Kind of cocky and arrogant about.

[Stark]

8 hours ago, JPPT1974 said:

Kind of do not want Rosen. Kind of cocky and arrogant about.

That is why you should want him. I don't want a scared, quiet, does not rise to the moment QB.  Cocky, Arrogant, confident, and not afraid is the guy I want. 

After this weekend I still have the order as:

1A, Rosen

1B, Darnold 

2, Rudolph

3, Mayfield

 

4, Jackson (Clemson showed he is not ready yet, not in the pocket)

[legler82]

59 minutes ago, Stark said:

4, Jackson (Clemson showed he is not ready yet, not in the pocket)

To be fair, Clemson's defense is probably going to do that to every QB they face this year.  

[jetsfansince7]

And replace him with Mayfield. Mayfield should have never been left out of the top 3. He's been showing he's arguably the best QB in football for years. How many times must the man be a Heisman finalist before he gets the respect.

Is he as accurate as Darnold?


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[Lupz27]

On 9/16/2017 at 9:27 PM, Paradis said:

Take Allen off this thread

agree, he is a poor man's Flacco no thanks.

[Lupz27]

At what point do we decided Nick Fitzgerald is for real?  That beat down of LSU is impressive, as is his 6-4 230 pound frame while being faster then Cam Newton!!

[Pcola]

7 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

At what point do we decided Nick Fitzgerald is for real?  That beat down of LSU is impressive, as is his 6-4 230 pound frame while being faster then Cam Newton!!

He is one of the 12 QBs I have been following this year and I would rank him around 5 or 6 behind Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph, and possibly Falk.  Fitzgerald may stay in school because stat wise he is well below the top 2 underclassman and Rudolph, Mayfield, and Falk are all seniors.  He could be the gem of the 2019 draft.

But how much if his success is from coaching.  Mullen may be the most underrated coach in all of college football.  He beats the power houses of the SEC with Miss St.  What the heck could he do with a school and resources of LSU, GA, or Auburn?

I actually think he has Pro potential and at least should garner strong interest from the NFL this January.

[Pcola]

8 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

agree, he is a poor man's Flacco no thanks.

I think that might be his ceiling.  He is no where near that right now.

[Stark]

On 9/16/2017 at 8:27 PM, Paradis said:

Take Allen off this thread

 

On 9/17/2017 at 2:46 AM, Villain The Foe said:

And replace him with Mayfield. Mayfield should have never been left out of the top 3. He's been showing he's arguably the best QB in football for years. How many times must the man be a Heisman finalist before he gets the respect.

Don't know if we can take him off the tread title, but...........

[nico002]

On 9/10/2017 at 6:00 AM, Villain The Foe said:

Couple of really nice TD passes, a couple really terrible INT's. 

Darnold is awesome and this video just sold me more.

he’s incredibly accurate. Notice how all his short/dump off throws always hit the player in perfect stride. 

On deep throws he scans the field really well and can drop it with perfect touch over defenders.

both INTs were accurate dep throws that were right at the receiver, somewhat unneeded risks but effectively punts where the defenders made great plays.

his feet are very active, almost happy feet but he’s always in balance and in a good position to make a throw. He’s great at throwing on the move and with just his upper body. 

His motion is a little long but sports science measured a drop from .45 secs to .39 in less than one year of him working on his mechanics. 

I see a Big Ben/Aaron Rodgers mix in this guys. He’s a generational prospect.

[Stark]

Sports Science ran a "Darnold" short episode. Some nice measurable in that that I will post screen captures of: Velocity, Reaction time, & Improved Release time

[Philc1]

On 9/18/2017 at 12:21 AM, JPPT1974 said:

Kind of do not want Rosen. Kind of cocky and arrogant about.

And the good qb's are not that?

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, nico002 said:

Darnold is awesome and this video just sold me more.

he’s incredibly accurate. Notice how all his short/dump off throws always hit the player in perfect stride. 

On deep throws he scans the field really well and can drop it with perfect touch over defenders.

both INTs were accurate dep throws that were right at the receiver, somewhat unneeded risks but effectively punts where the defenders made great plays.

his feet are very active, almost happy feet but he’s always in balance and in a good position to make a throw. He’s great at throwing on the move and with just his upper body. 

His motion is a little long but sports science measured a drop from .45 secs to .39 in less than one year of him working on his mechanics. 

I see a Big Ben/Aaron Rodgers mix in this guys. He’s a generational prospect.

Watch the highlights of the Texas game from last Saturday night especially towards the end.  This kid is the real deal we shouldn't be tanking on purpose our entire offense should be kneel downs the rest of the season.

[Guilhermezmc]

I might be wrong about this but Darnold all day long

[Lupz27]

On 9/20/2017 at 4:26 PM, Guilhermezmc said:

I might be wrong about this but Darnold all day long

Listen I won't call it a failure if the Jets land Rosen with the 2nd overall pick, I much rather Darnold as he has better instincts, pocket awareness/escapeability while keeping eyes down field looking to pass, and seems to have the "IT" factor in spades.

Rosen would be a nice consolation prize, he is much more gifted mechanically, and finally showed some leadership, and proof he can rise up in a big game situation, but he doesn't have that special ability that Darnold has navigating the pocket while extending plays to throw the ball not run with it like Big Ben, Rosen reminds me of a Eli Manning, as he ages he will need a clean pocket to be successful, and when given one he will be real dangerous, but without one he could go through mediocre streaks alla Eli.

And this might be a very unpopular opinion, but if it's not Darnold, or Rosen in the 1st because we won to many games, or they don't declare I stay far away from the rest of the QB's Rd 1, and I mean FAR away they are all serious crap shoots after Darnold, and Rosen, and some will even say those 2 are crap shoots.

[Adoni Beast]

12 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Listen I won't call it a failure if the Jets land Rosen with the 2nd overall pick, I much rather Darnold as he has better instincts, pocket awareness/escapeability while keeping eyes down field looking to pass, and seems to have the "IT" factor in spades.

Rosen would be a nice consolation prize, he is much more gifted mechanically, and finally showed some leadership, and proof he can rise up in a big game situation, but he doesn't have that special ability that Darnold has navigating the pocket while extending plays to throw the ball not run with it like Big Ben, Rosen reminds me of a Eli Manning, as he ages he will need a clean pocket to be successful, and when given one he will be real dangerous, but without one he could go through mediocre streaks alla Eli.

And this might be a very unpopular opinion, but if it's not Darnold, or Rosen in the 1st because we won to many games, or they don't declare I stay far away from the rest of the QB's Rd 1, and I mean FAR away they are all serious crap shoots after Darnold, and Rosen, and some will even say those 2 are crap shoots.

Darnold is going to be special. His pocket awarness ans ability to subtle move in the pocket, while looking downfield, and still delivering accurate throws in tight windows is uncanny. His unorthdox throws and footwork deter some people, but not me.

Rosen to be is 1B to Darnold's 1A. Rosen doesn't have much to work with, and his defense is horrendous. He is a bit of a gambler, but at least when he throws a pick, he comes back, throws a TD. No quit, no sulking. He's a gamer. 

I agree with you, after that its a roll of the dice/developmental project for Lamar, Allen, whoever else.

Josh Allen is quickly becoming Hackeneberg. We already have one of those "has all the tools, but do we have enough mechanics to fix him" projects. No thanks.

Lamar Jackson. I think he can definitely start in this league...with the right team/scheme/coach to go all in on him, like the Falcons did with Vick. That team is not us, unless we have some major coaching changes. 

[Adoni Beast]

Josh Allen will still go in the first round if he finishes strong.

https://www.google.com/amp/draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/09/21/josh-allen-still-no-2-on-todd-mcshays-latest-big-board-for-2018-nfl-draft/amp/

 

It’s been a rough start to the 2017 season for Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen, who came into the year with tons of hype and lofty projections for his draft status.

He has struggled mightily against quality competition, leading many to wonder if he’s truly worthy of the high expectations.

One such draft analyst who seems unfazed by Allen’s early struggles is ESPN’s Todd McShay, who still has Allen ranked No. 2 overall on his latest big board for the 2018 draft:

Outside of scouting circles, Allen was a relative unknown coming into the season. He didn’t even have a Division I scholarship out of high school. His two appearances in the national spotlight this month (at Iowa, versus Oregon) haven’t gone well, but it’s not all on his shoulders. He has an elite arm and frame (listed at 6-foot-5, 233 pounds) and can make every throw. Darnold has been better this season, but the USC quarterback also has much more talent surrounding him.

There’s no denying Allen’s physical tools, and he doesn’t have the strongest supporting cast around him. But it’s hard to ignore his inability to perform at a high level against top competition, having thrown just three touchdowns to 10 interceptions in his career against Power 5 schools.

USC quarterback Sam Darnold is the only other player ranked ahead of Allen, while UCLA’s Josh Rosen is the lone other quarterback in McShay’s rankings (No. 7).