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Darnold, Allen, Rosen


Titan24

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Personally speaking, I play out the season, see where the team end up pick wise and make my selection based on that. The Jets need to find a Franchise QB , a Franchise LT and an upper echelon edge rusher for this team . It's best to find these type of players in the 1st round, but sometimes you get lucky later on .  In this coming draft, the opportunity exist to add one of these 3 positions in the 1st round and continue adding talent to the roster .

Everyone is excited about the chance to add the QB, but Mike McGlinchey could solidify the LT position for us for a good while . KU's Armstrong or Harold Landry could give us that edge rusher we have been looking for . Then there's The 2 Oklahoma QBs .

The Jets will fill a premium position need in round 1 of the upcoming draft, and that's how you build for sustain excellence .

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Far be it of me to get in the middle of the fight or the century between Lupz and Paradise but Paradise is 100% correct on one point, that being the gimicky offense comments.  If as stated Lupz was taking a shot at the offense that Faulk is running one year after TOTALLY discounting that point in regards to Mahoomes then that is an issue in evaluation.  It is either a factor or it isn't and it should not one day be a factor because I do not favor one qb and the next day be no factor because I do favor another QB.

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On 10/17/2017 at 11:51 AM, Beerfish said:

Far be it of me to get in the middle of the fight or the century between Lupz and Paradise but Paradise is 100% correct on one point, that being the gimicky offense comments.  If as stated Lupz was taking a shot at the offense that Faulk is running one year after TOTALLY discounting that point in regards to Mahoomes then that is an issue in evaluation.  It is either a factor or it isn't and it should not one day be a factor because I do not favor one qb and the next day be no factor because I do favor another QB.

Falk throws like Olive Oil, Mahomes like a Greek God, Falk rarely throws the ball more then 5 yards in the air, or outside the numbers besides behind the line of scrimmage screen passes, Mahomes frequently pushed the ball DEEP down the field, and OUTSIDE the numbers while having a very high completion %.

Oh, and the fact that the NFL drafted Mahomes in the top 10, and Falk won't sniff the 1st round will all I'll need to show who is winning this argument.

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So going into today -- Darnold has to me risen to the top (again?)...  Last week, Josh Rosen's implosion - and Luke Falk's - were two performances that raised concern for me. Or at least they shed light on issues that they were supposed be getting away from. Darnold's game last week conversely was a display of improvement and intangibles.

It's disappointing that nobody is running away with this thing, though.  This class was supposed to be bullet proof. Instead its migrating towards a minefield of questions.

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7 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Falk throws like Olive Oil, Mahomes like a Greek God, Falk rarely throws the ball more then 5 yards in the air, or outside the numbers besides behind the line of scrimmage screen passes, Mahomes frequently pushed the ball DEEP down the field, and OUTSIDE the numbers while having a very high completion %.

Oh, and the fact that the NFL drafted Mahomes in the top 10, and Falk won't sniff the 1st round will all I'll need to show who is winning this argument.

What you have just said is totally irrelevant.  The topic was not who is the better prospect the topic was is running a college non pro offense a big factor or not.  Last year you vowed up and down that it was not a factor, suddenly it is?  It either is or it isn't factor.

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3 hours ago, Paradis said:

So going into today -- Darnold has to me risen to the top (again?)...  Last week, Josh Rosen's implosion - and Luke Falk's - were two performances that raised concern for me. Or at least they shed light on issues that they were supposed be getting away from. Darnold's game last week conversely was a display of improvement and intangibles.

It's disappointing that nobody is running away with this thing, though.  This class was supposed to be bullet proof. Instead its migrating towards a minefield of questions.

I agree.  This college football season has done nothing but confuse me over the QBs.  They are so inconsistent.  At this point, I think I have to just sit back, enjoy the games and not worry about how the prospects shake out until after the season is over.  Plenty of time to watch tape and evaluate prospects in January. 

Darnold with a chance to make a statement today against ND -- really looking forward to that game tonight.

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Everytime i watch Mayfield, it feels like pseudo-science. An illusion...

but christ, i'm running out of reasons to keep telling myself he doesn't deserve to be talked about in the "best of" class. He just makes too many plays with his arm. 

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5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

What you have just said is totally irrelevant.  The topic was not who is the better prospect the topic was is running a college non pro offense a big factor or not.  Last year you vowed up and down that it was not a factor, suddenly it is?  It either is or it isn't factor.

No I said it was not a factor for MAHOMES, I clearly stated why he was a different animal then the usual air raid weak armed QB's, go back, and read my Mahomes thread from last October, nowhere did I say this applies to guys like his former Coach at Tech who has/had pop gun arms, and the skill set that Mahomes has, yes your physical ability can make something completely irrelevant to one, while it is relevant to another, and I stated he was an exception last year not the rule.

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12 hours ago, Paradis said:

Everytime i watch Mayfield, it feels like pseudo-science. An illusion...

but christ, i'm running out of reasons to keep telling myself he doesn't deserve to be talked about in the "best of" class. He just makes too many plays with his arm. 

I did the same exact thing with Mayfield. I figured "eh, he's short and he is running around all over the place in that gimmicky OU offense." 

Then I started to watch him this year. I saw:

1) A guy who is working quickly through multiple progressions all over the field;

2) A guy who is making accurate throws to all levels of the field;

3) A guy moving around in the pocket to buy time to throw, not to immediately abandon ship and run

4) A guy with balls. I liked watching him go into OSU and plant that Sooner flag in the middle of the field. 

If Mayfield is 6'3" or taller, he is going number one this year. 

If the Jets are picking around 10 or lower, I may prefer staying in place and picking Mayfield rather than trading up for Rosen or Allen. Maccagnan, however, scares me. In Petty and Hackenberg, he seems to be a guy who values size and a big arm. Mayfield may not be Macc's "type". 

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1 hour ago, maury77 said:

I did the same exact thing with Mayfield. I figured "eh, he's short and he is running around all over the place in that gimmicky OU offense." 

Then I started to watch him this year. I saw:

1) A guy who is working quickly through multiple progressions all over the field;

2) A guy who is making accurate throws to all levels of the field;

3) A guy moving around in the pocket to buy time to throw, not to immediately abandon ship and run

4) A guy with balls. I liked watching him go into OSU and plant that Sooner flag in the middle of the field. 

If Mayfield is 6'3" or taller, he is going number one this year. 

If the Jets are picking around 10 or lower, I may prefer staying in place and picking Mayfield rather than trading up for Rosen or Allen. Maccagnan, however, scares me. In Petty and Hackenberg, he seems to be a guy who values size and a big arm. Mayfield may not be Macc's "type". 

Then, Christian Thorsen of Northwestern is the guy. Fits all of the above.  I agree with you on Mayfield. All the guy does every week is win. 

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2 hours ago, maury77 said:

I did the same exact thing with Mayfield. I figured "eh, he's short and he is running around all over the place in that gimmicky OU offense." 

Then I started to watch him this year. I saw:

1) A guy who is working quickly through multiple progressions all over the field;

2) A guy who is making accurate throws to all levels of the field;

3) A guy moving around in the pocket to buy time to throw, not to immediately abandon ship and run

4) A guy with balls. I liked watching him go into OSU and plant that Sooner flag in the middle of the field. 

If Mayfield is 6'3" or taller, he is going number one this year. 

If the Jets are picking around 10 or lower, I may prefer staying in place and picking Mayfield rather than trading up for Rosen or Allen. Maccagnan, however, scares me. In Petty and Hackenberg, he seems to be a guy who values size and a big arm. Mayfield may not be Macc's "type". 

You know what is going to happen.  The minute we start talking up a different guy, he goes out and plays like crap.  May not be this week, or next.  But eventually it is going to happen, he is going to look horrible.  And it will be on you and Paradis.

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A bold team will ignore Mayfield's height and get the next Russell Wilson
in my opinion:

- He has the "it" factor which lifts his team to overcome their awful defense
- Even though he doesn't have ideal height he has a very strong frame
- Terrific arm strength
- Excellent touch
- He wants to play from the pocket but has the mobility to escape when necessary
- Fast release
- Extremely accurate

With Morton being in NO for so many years (Brees) he shouldn't have a bias against
shorter QB's.  Also with the offense we've been running Mayfield would fit, are we
bold enough to draft him?

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Rosen and Darnold will still go top 3 each. But they are no longer can't miss picks, and I think teams will be able to trade up for them.

Lamar Jackson playing his way into the top 10.

Mayfield playing his way into the first round.

Josh Allen playing his way into the second round....maybe third at this rate.

Falk's game against Cal ruined him, regardless of how good he looks the rest of the way. His negatives were exposed tremendously. He'll be a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

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I think we are all assuming the Browns are going to pick #1. Assuming they bring back Hue Jackson (a big if), can we completely discount that they might take Lamar Jackson #1 overall? Jackson is having a huge year (again) and he is going to have the best athletic tools by far. 

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52 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

He said that scouts are not as high on Rosen as social media is

It's cool I am not as high on scouts as social media is, or the casual fan. You also can't trust a scout's report when it comes to the media anyway. 

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Darnold saying this now is just to relieve some of the pressure he is currently under.  Every fan of Cleveland, SF, NYJ, NYG, AZ, Min, etc are micro-analyzing every pass this guy throws.  

I don't remember Watson, Mahomes, or Trubisky going through the same type of pressure other then winning games.  Same for Goff and Wentz.

That said, I don't buy it for a second.  The offense and coaching staff are hurting his development.  I watched every televised game of his and despite his poor numbers, he is an elite prospect.  

And the comment about Rosen is absolute BS.  You can say scouts aren't high on these guys yet 23 scouts, GMs, VP of Personnel certainly fly all over the country to watch them each week.  

The trash that is the current QB state of the NFL dictates that there is going to be a huge influx of college QBs into the league over the next few seasons.  I mean how many more seasons do Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Brees, and Eli have left?  Palmer is probably done as a starter.  No one knows how the collarbone injury is going to affect Rodgers going forward.  Add that to the list of teams that either are desperate for a starting QB or an upgrade?  The are fewer teams that have their long term QB (5 years from now) than don't.

 

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10 hours ago, Pcola said:

Darnold saying this now is just to relieve some of the pressure he is currently under.  Every fan of Cleveland, SF, NYJ, NYG, AZ, Min, etc are micro-analyzing every pass this guy throws.  

I don't remember Watson, Mahomes, or Trubisky going through the same type of pressure other then winning games.  Same for Goff and Wentz.

That said, I don't buy it for a second.  The offense and coaching staff are hurting his development.  I watched every televised game of his and despite his poor numbers, he is an elite prospect.  

And the comment about Rosen is absolute BS.  You can say scouts aren't high on these guys yet 23 scouts, GMs, VP of Personnel certainly fly all over the country to watch them each week.  

The trash that is the current QB state of the NFL dictates that there is going to be a huge influx of college QBs into the league over the next few seasons.  I mean how many more seasons do Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Brees, and Eli have left?  Palmer is probably done as a starter.  No one knows how the collarbone injury is going to affect Rodgers going forward.  Add that to the list of teams that either are desperate for a starting QB or an upgrade?  The are fewer teams that have their long term QB (5 years from now) than don't.

 

This. Darnold has already called out USC coaching (in his most pc-way possible). But everyone could read between the lines. He's tired of the predictable playcalling and offense being run.

With that said, I'm sure he is trying to save some face here if he falls out of top 5 consideration be season's end. If he knows he's a top 5 pick, I'm sure he'll come out.

As far as Rosen goes, his statement about scouts not being so high on him is so vague. Yeah maybe some aren't. But I'm sure plenty are. Plus its October, and scouts don't make the picks. All it takes is one gm or coach to love Rosen and hes a top 5 pick regardless how this year ends.

A team might trade up for either, as him and Darnold are no sure things. But they'll both be top 5 picks.

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On 10/22/2017 at 8:40 AM, section314 said:

Then, Christian Thorsen of Northwestern is the guy. Fits all of the above.  I agree with you on Mayfield. All the guy does every week is win. 

Clayton, not Christian

On 10/30/2017 at 10:24 AM, Adoni Beast said:

Clayton Thorson had himself a great game this weekend against a good Michigan State defense.

I've been pretty underwhelmed by him all year. Scouts love him and he's been getting the "plays on a bad team with no weapons" excuse. So he might be rising by season's end. 

I am not trying to knock him completely off the radar, but this article should be read and then take into account that this guy covers this team. I have heard the raving about Thorson and how he is supposed to sneak up draft boards, when I watch video of him I don't really see a FQB, I see a decent QB maybe that needs everything around him to be good or better he doesn't seem to make up for any deficiencies - He played well against Mich St. but a lot of overtimes to get those "career best stats"  .... I only pasted a few lined from the article below, but the link is there for full read

 

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2017/10/12/sports/football/schuman-honest-assessment-clayton-thorson/

"the time is right to separate perceptions from performance. And though it pains me to use such a cliche, it might be time to admit that Thorson simply doesn’t have the “it” factor that sets apart great quarterbacks from the rest.

Everybody defines “it” in their own way. Mine is a simple test: When all else goes wrong on offense, can the quarterback elevate his play to carry his team across the line? It’s a particularly salient question for this Cats team, with major issues up and down the offense. To turn the season around, NU may well need those kinds of heroics from Thorson.

This season, Thorson hasn’t shown that ability. In NU’s three losses, he hasn’t been able to overcome the tough situations in which he’s found himself. His anticipation and field vision have been suspect, and he hasn’t shown much proclivity for evading pressure and keeping the offense moving when games are on the line. He’s taking sacks at a higher rate than last season, and he’s thrown seven picks after tossing nine in all of 2016. Racking up stats against overmatched opponents like Nevada and Bowling Green doesn’t erase the flaws Thorson has shown the rest of the year.

Thorson is a mirror. Given a good day by the offensive line, an effective rushing attack, separation from his receivers and a smart game plan, Thorson can make the plays to win games. Without those things, he’s liable to make as many back-breaking mistakes as good throws.

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I get that Rosen and Darnold havent played lights out all year, but QBs throw interceptions - all of them (aside from Brady and Rogers).

Peyton had 2 double digit INT seasons in college, Russel Wilson threw 14 picks his junior year and Drew Brees threw 20, 12 and 12 his 3 years as a starter, it happens with 20-22 year old kids playing the position

That being said, I dont think we will pick high enough for one of these guys and would be thrilled to take Mayfield with our 6-10 first round pick

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1 hour ago, Stark said:

Clayton, not Christian

I am not trying to knock him completely off the radar, but this article should be read and then take into account that this guy covers this team. I have heard the raving about Thorson and how he is supposed to sneak up draft boards, when I watch video of him I don't really see a FQB, I see a decent QB maybe that needs everything around him to be good or better he doesn't seem to make up for any deficiencies - He played well against Mich St. but a lot of overtimes to get those "career best stats"  .... I only pasted a few lined from the article below, but the link is there for full read

 

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2017/10/12/sports/football/schuman-honest-assessment-clayton-thorson/

"the time is right to separate perceptions from performance. And though it pains me to use such a cliche, it might be time to admit that Thorson simply doesn’t have the “it” factor that sets apart great quarterbacks from the rest.

Everybody defines “it” in their own way. Mine is a simple test: When all else goes wrong on offense, can the quarterback elevate his play to carry his team across the line? It’s a particularly salient question for this Cats team, with major issues up and down the offense. To turn the season around, NU may well need those kinds of heroics from Thorson.

This season, Thorson hasn’t shown that ability. In NU’s three losses, he hasn’t been able to overcome the tough situations in which he’s found himself. His anticipation and field vision have been suspect, and he hasn’t shown much proclivity for evading pressure and keeping the offense moving when games are on the line. He’s taking sacks at a higher rate than last season, and he’s thrown seven picks after tossing nine in all of 2016. Racking up stats against overmatched opponents like Nevada and Bowling Green doesn’t erase the flaws Thorson has shown the rest of the year.

Thorson is a mirror. Given a good day by the offensive line, an effective rushing attack, separation from his receivers and a smart game plan, Thorson can make the plays to win games. Without those things, he’s liable to make as many back-breaking mistakes as good throws.

Yeah i see the same thing. Average QB, with some skill, but not sold on a high draft pick on him.

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On 10/21/2017 at 12:38 PM, Paradis said:

So going into today -- Darnold has to me risen to the top (again?)...  Last week, Josh Rosen's implosion - and Luke Falk's - were two performances that raised concern for me. Or at least they shed light on issues that they were supposed be getting away from. Darnold's game last week conversely was a display of improvement and intangibles.

It's disappointing that nobody is running away with this thing, though.  This class was supposed to be bullet proof. Instead its migrating towards a minefield of questions.

I love people microanalyzing any incompletion or turnover Darnold has in college it reminds me of the people who knew everything in 1997 bashing Peyton Manning and saying Ryan Leaf would be better in the nfl

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I love people microanalyzing any incompletion or turnover Darnold has in college it reminds me of the people who knew everything in 1997 bashing Peyton Manning and saying Ryan Leaf would be better in the nfl

I think people did that during the first few weeks (not the scouts, but draft media) cause like, what else is there to do? but as the season's worn on, it's more about big picture stuff. 

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On 11/2/2017 at 12:02 PM, Paradis said:

I think people did that during the first few weeks (not the scouts, but draft media) cause like, what else is there to do? but as the season's worn on, it's more about big picture stuff. 

Contrarians like you were going on and on about Leaf’s incredible athleticism in 1997 while Manning always choked in big games in college

 

 

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Contrarians like you were going on and on about Leaf’s incredible athleticism in 1997 while Manning always choked in big games in college

 

 

I'll bite. 

Tour me through the contrarian factory and my place in it, please

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