Let Macc actually rebuild than critique

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

When Bowles & Macc got here the cupboards were bare and they were left nothing of substance from Rex/Tanny or from Rex/Idzik. So, he took the Sar route using trades & spending free agency dollars to try & be competitive, it almost worked & we missed the playoffs losing in Buffalo.

No one can tell me that the Revis signing wasn't our idiot owner Woodys idea. It had Woody redemption all over it! So, the only decent players still here from the old regime were also long in the teeth & at the end of their careers, Mangold, Harris, etc. 

So what do you do at that point? You rebuild. People forget that all of Maccs moves to try to stay competitive were contracts constructed in way that we could get out of them without long term salary cap damage.

That is where we are now. Macc took a flyer at a QB in the 2nd round, so far, jury is still out as the kid just turned 22 & the team around him is incredibly young & raw. But here's the thing people have to look at compared to where he started when he got here. Now, based on his own drafting, he's has the start of what could be a decent roster of young players. Leonard Williams, Jenkins, Lee, Adams, Maye, Anderson, Marshall, Stewart, Hansen, McGuire, Jones, Burris. 

Now this team 2017 is truly the start of the NY Jets that Macc & Bowles built. Obviously we're still looking for a QB, but at least we have young players that will actually make the team & contribute. Will they all succeed, of course not, that's the nature of this game & the inexact science of the draft itself, but we are in a way better place than when they got here even if it doesn't FEEL like it this season.

Talk to me after 2018 draft & free agency with 100 million to spend. After the 2018 season is the time to critique Macc all you want, because this will truly be the team that Macc built. He's really just begun.

I get the rebuild thing. But it's year 3 and it fields like day1.

[legler82]

49 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It's cool that he can blow two drafts on ungodly terrible players and then just say "uhh we're rebuilding now" so none of it counts

That 2015 draft is starting to look Idzik-ish if not already.

 

Leonard Williams - Stud

Devon Smith - So far an injury bust

Lorenzo Mauldin - On the bubble [of one of the worst rosters in the league]

Bryce Petty - In a rebuild is backing up to a 38 year old journey man QB, who has a 2-20 record in his last 22 starts

Jarvis Harrison - Cut

Deon Simon - Cut

[56mehl56]

42 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Yea, because all draft picks are All Pros in their 1st two years, give me a f*cking break! Had Rex not won a meaningless game in Miami at least Macc would have had OBJ to start with @ WR. 

But Jets fans would have wanted him run out of town because he dropped two passes in his first PS game. 

[56mehl56]

32 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

Who's talking about all pros? Name one player on the offensive side of the ball that another team would trade better than a 4th rounder for. Here's the quick answer...there isn't one. In a league that's built around offense, that's pathetic. Quincy Enunwa was, by far, our bell-cow player on offense, when in reality he's a good WR3 and a serviceable WR2 by NFL measures. In Jets land he's WR1. I'm sorry but that sucks when you're 3 years into building a roster.

When you rebuild and start with youth there are no household names unless you draft them in the 1st round like a Leo or Adams. Look around the league at some of the young players who blossomed after a few years of experience. like an Antonio Brown , Arian Foster , Wes Welker , Antonio Gates etc........  We don't know yet what we have in some of these youngsters , but Jets fans are quick to label them as busts right out of the gate.

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I get the rebuild thing. But it's year 3 and it fields like day1.

It is day 1! You and I know the way Woody operates. Make mistakes in hiring....and he can't even fire anyone correctly. Hiring Idzik & keeping Rex Ryan was an epic failure. A smart owner would have fired Rex & told the interim coach vs the Dolphins in that final game, I want to see some of the youngsters.

Jets would have lost & their consolation prize would have been OBJ & god knows who else with those higher picks. 

They tried to do the competitive rebuild. It failed! Woody needed that 2015 run, Jet fans were restless. I think with Woody heading to England it was the perfect time for Macc to tell Woody like it is, we need a true rebuild & Woody went along with it. 

So yes, I get how you feel & your right, it's day 1 after 2 drafts by the scouts Macc put in place. But instead of starting out like we did in 2015 with a whole lot of nothing and a team full of geriatrics, this squad heads into the rebuild with some untapped talent & a lot of youth. It may not seem like it now, but we are in a way better place for our long term future today than we were in 2015. We just need to find that QB to lead this group he's put together & bring some new found confidence to this entire Jet team. 

We need our Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott moment where someone brings in that enthusiasm & makes it fun to be a NY Jet. I'm hoping that starts in 2018 with 9 draft picks & 100 million dollars to spend. We won't be spend. Old players looking for big free agent contracts need not apply.

[Pointdexter]

9 minutes ago, legler82 said:

That 2015 draft is starting to look Idzik-ish if not already.

 

Leonard Williams - Stud

Devon Smith - So far an injury bust

Lorenzo Mauldin - On the bubble [of one of the worst rosters in the league]

Bryce Petty - In a rebuild is backing up to a 38 year old journey man QB, who has a 2-20 record in his last 22 starts

Jarvis Harrison - Cut

Deon Simon - Cut

This is what the pro-macc crowd is ignoring. 

2015 draft = 1 hit and 5 misses

This is why the roster blows. Well this and the fact Macc blew all of the Idzik nest egg on overpriced players past their prime.  It's not Rex's fault, or Idzik, or Woody, or any other scapegoat du jour. 

Bottom line is it's a GM's primary job to accrue roster talent. Buck stops there. Our roster, by any honest measure, is the worst in football. Arguing anything else gets trumped by this fact.

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

But Jets fans would have wanted him run out of town because he dropped two passes in his first PS game. 

That is so true! Lol. They'd be like, "I don't like his stupid hair".

[Jetster]

7 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

When you rebuild and start with youth there are no household names unless you draft them in the 1st round like a Leo or Adams. Look around the league at some of the young players who blossomed after a few years of experience. like an Antonio Brown , Arian Foster , Wes Welker , Antonio Gates etc........  We don't know yet what we have in some of these youngsters , but Jets fans are quick to label them as busts right out of the gate.

I actually like what I've seen from Stewart & Hansen. Little flashes, you never know. I love the way Stewart runs after the catch, he's got a little Rod Smith in him.

Id also like to go back to an old thread where fans here were killing me for saying Anderson reminded me of Fred Biletnikoff. That over the shoulder catch he made from McCown looked eerily similar. Anderson is WAY BETTER than anyone expected & wait until we get better players around him so he can't be keyed on.

[Pac]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Basically a rookie!

He's basically a rookie because the terrible QB coach (who never had QB coach experience) decided it was a good idea to stop working with him for 10 months last season and hope he picked things up by osmosis.

That's why that aforementioned QB coach is charting plays for some DII school in the sticks.

Not everything is Maccs fault..  Start repeating that like a mantra while listening to sounds of the ocean.  You'll feel better.

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

When Bowles & Macc got here the cupboards were bare and they were left nothing of substance from Rex/Tanny or from Rex/Idzik

3 YEARS later they are still bare, they had their chance to rebuild they chose to play Fitzpatrick for 2 years, and McCown now this year while bitching FA, and the draft, someone else, anyone else should be doing the next rebuild.

[Ken Schroy]

For me, Mac gets to the end of this year. Need to something from some of these young players. Hack needs to be starting by the end of the year and show some serious progress.

[HessStation]

47 minutes ago, Jetster said:

So don't watch. There is not a law that you have to watch the team u love to hate. Like any sports fan though they all come climbing back on board with a hint of success. The amount of awesome GMs on this forum is astounding. 

I'm a Browns fan homie.

[dbatesman]

17 minutes ago, Pac said:

He's basically a rookie because the terrible QB coach (who never had QB coach experience) decided it was a good idea to stop working with him for 10 months last season and hope he picked things up by osmosis.

That's why that aforementioned QB coach is charting plays for some DII school in the sticks.

Not everything is Maccs fault..  Start repeating that like a mantra while listening to sounds of the ocean.  You'll feel better.

When you factor in the QB coach thing, he's basically a high school sophomore

[Pac]

Just now, dbatesman said:

When you factor in the QB coach thing, he's basically a high school sophomore

I doubt Patullo (if that's what his name was) even gave him directions to Florham Park.

[kmnj]

why on earth would anybody let or want Mac to return next year? Each year the team has regressed not improved and he has made some terrible draft picks and signed some terrible contracts-it is not like he has a history of being a winning gm-this is not theo to the cubs-this is a no talent scrub that has no business being a gm in the league. I would love to know what some of you folks do for a living that constantly defend this guy. He is a loser and in business when things go bad on your watch you get fired you dont get more time especially when you have ZERO track record. This post most be a troll or your must be related to Mac as there is no other justification for this mess. We may put on the worst football team ever for this franchise on the field this year. I paid good money for this garbage and as a paying customer I am not happy

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Never seen a dominating DT/NT like him. 

Interesting that he signed with the Jets in 2012 as an UDFA (28 yo), but it took him till 2015 to emerge as a force, since that time he's beep playing at a pro bowl level and could be a future HOF if he keeps up at this level for another 5 years. 

Often it takes time to develop as a player.

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

I doubt Patullo (if that's what his name was) even gave him directions to Florham Park.

Couldnt drive there even if he did, bc hes basically a 7th grader

[legler82]

42 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

This is what the pro-macc crowd is ignoring. 

2015 draft = 1 hit and 5 misses

This is why the roster blows. Well this and the fact Macc blew all of the Idzik nest egg on overpriced players past their prime.  It's not Rex's fault, or Idzik, or Woody, or any other scapegoat du jour. 

Bottom line is it's a GM's primary job to accrue roster talent. Buck stops there. Our roster, by any honest measure, is the worst in football. Arguing anything else gets trumped by this fact.

We also gave up a 5th round pick for 1 year of production from Marshall.  You can't "build through the draft" at that success rate.

[Pointdexter]

26 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

When you factor in the QB coach thing, he's basically a high school sophomore

When Hack is winning super bowls and a perennial pro bowler, you and I are going to look very foolish. You do know that Gailey had Hack in his office coloring with crayons last year while all the other Jets were practicing football, right? 

#stilljustarookie

[long suffering jets fan]

16 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

Often it takes time to develop as a player.

Really? You would never believe that reading this board.  Consensus says if they're not superstars from the first snap they're a bust.

[long suffering jets fan]

1 minute ago, Pointdexter said:

When Hack is winning super bowls and a perennial pro bowler, you and I are going to look very foolish. You do know that Gailey had Hack in his office coloring with crayons last year while all the other Jets were practicing football, right? 

#stilljustarookie

Hack was a high risk, high reward pick.  Needs time to develop and you don't know if you're ever going to get there.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Well said! I'm excited by the prospect of some of these young guys emerging this season, I think we're going to get some pleasant surprises.  I'm equally excited by what we'll look like as a team next season with all the money we have to spend and likely early draft position. 

I don't agree that the Revis move was bad.  He had a productive his first season back with us, but obviously not the second.  The only thing I would have done differently was signed him a year earlier for less money. Instead the Patriots got him that year and won the SB with him fro $12M vs. $17M that we paid.

$17m that we paid?

Funny, my math comes out to $39m for 2 seasons. Did I not carry the 1 again?

[long suffering jets fan]

24 minutes ago, kmnj said:

why on earth would anybody let or want Mac to return next year? Each year the team has regressed not improved and he has made some terrible draft picks and signed some terrible contracts-it is not like he has a history of being a winning gm-this is not theo to the cubs-this is a no talent scrub that has no business being a gm in the league. I would love to know what some of you folks do for a living that constantly defend this guy. He is a loser and in business when things go bad on your watch you get fired you dont get more time especially when you have ZERO track record. This post most be a troll or your must be related to Mac as there is no other justification for this mess. We may put on the worst football team ever for this franchise on the field this year. I paid good money for this garbage and as a paying customer I am not happy

Uh, what was the Jets record before Macc arrived and what was their record the following year?

[JetsFanatic]

4 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

When Hack is winning super bowls and a perennial pro bowler, you and I are going to look very foolish. You do know that Gailey had Hack in his office coloring with crayons last year while all the other Jets were practicing football, right? 

#stilljustarookie

No actually you sound pretty foolish right now.

[munchmemory]

[long suffering jets fan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

$17m that we paid?

Funny, my math comes out to $39m for 2 seasons. Did I not carry the 1 again?

I was referring to first season acquisition costs.  The Pats paid $12M one year, we paid $17M for the first year the following year, but you're correct, the overall cost of the contract was $39M over the 2 years.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

Sheldon Richardson's actions off and to some extent on the football field is the reason he's traded and Mo Wilk got the deal .  To some extent, his actions could be looked at as a reason Harrison is no longer a Jet even thou I think Harrison would still have joined the Giants .

Or we could have, y'know, just extended him in 2015, when we were "forced" to spend all this money, and have that deal cost millions less than the Giants paid.

[Pointdexter]

10 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

No actually you sound pretty foolish right now.

And you just hit the rock bottom, last resort debating tactic of personal insults. In your defense, you were never going to win this one. We have the worst roster in the league, 3 years into the tenure of the guy whose whole job is building a talented roster.

Huge respect for even attempting to fight the good fight on this one, though.

[JetsFanatic]

4 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

And you just hit the rock bottom, last resort debating tactic of personal insults. In your defense, you were never going to win this one. We have the worst roster in the league, 3 years into the tenure of the guy whose whole job is building a talented roster.

Huge respect for even attempting to fight the good fight on this one, though.

Mac is rebuilding the right way.  Tearing it down then building it up. As far as Hack, I have no idea if he is ever going to make it and neither do you., though you constanlty whine like a child about him.  1st round QBs have a 50% success rate, a 2nd round QB that doesn't make it, is hardly a firable offense.

[ScarletKnight89]

You gotta see it through at this point.

Bottom line is that if the Jets have a top pick in next years draft and there is a top QB prospect available, the Jets could turn things around rather quickly.

[long suffering jets fan]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

That 2015 draft is starting to look Idzik-ish if not already.

 

Leonard Williams - Stud

Devon Smith - So far an injury bust

Lorenzo Mauldin - On the bubble [of one of the worst rosters in the league]

Bryce Petty - In a rebuild is backing up to a 38 year old journey man QB, who has a 2-20 record in his last 22 starts

Jarvis Harrison - Cut

Deon Simon - Cut

Here's 2016:

Round 1: ILB Darron Lee - Starter

Round 2: QB Christian Hackenberg - Hasn't shown much yet, but early

Round 3: OLB Jordan Jenkins - Likely Starter

Round 4: CB Juston Burris - Likely Starter

Round 5: T Brandon Shell - Possible Starter

Round 7: P Lachlan Edwards - Starter

Round 7: WR Charone Peake - Will make team as 4th, or 5th Receiver

All these guys will contribute in 2017.

Here 2017:

Round 1:  S Jamal Adams - Starter

Round 2: S Marcus May - Starter

Round 3: WR ArDarius Stewart - 3rd or 4th receiver

Round 4: WR Chad Hansen - 5th or 6th receiver

Round 5: TE Jordan Leggett - 2nd string TE

Round 5: DL Dylan Donahue - Practice squad, or may make team

Round 6: RB Elijah McGuire - Looks good could be 3rd round back if Forte is traded.

Round 6:  DB Jeremy Clark - Practice Squad

Round 6: Derrick Jones, DB - Looks good and has a good chance to make team.

 

[legler82]

1 minute ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Here's 2016:

Round 1: ILB Darron Lee - Starter

Round 2: QB Christian Hackenberg - Hasn't shown much yet, but early

Round 3: OLB Jordan Jenkins - Likely Starter

Round 4: CB Juston Burris - Likely Starter

Round 5: T Brandon Shell - Possible Starter

Round 7: P Lachlan Edwards - Starter

Round 7: WR Charone Peake - 3rd, or 4th Receiver

All these guys will contribute in 2017.

Here 2017:

Round 1:  S Jamal Adams - Starter

Round 2: S Marcus May - Starter

Round 3: WR ArDarius Stewart - 3rd or 4th receiver

Round 4: WR Chad Hansen - 4th or 5th receiver

Round 5: TE Jordan Leggett - 2nd string TE

Round 5: DL Dylan Donahue - Practice squad, or may make team

Round 6: RB Elijah McGuire - Looks good could be 3rd round back if Forte is traded.

Round 6:  DB Jeremy Clark - Practice Squad

Round 6: Derrick Jones, DB - Looks good and has a good chance to make team.

 

If those those "starters" remain as starters after the rebuild, we will not be a good team.

[Obrien2Toon]

Don't forget that first Mac class wasn't really his scouting dept.

And I've liked his last 2 drafts

[jgb]

Imagine this: 1st overall pick. $80M in cap space. Harbaugh is interested. Oh but Woody has a "gentleman's agreement" to let Macc stick around after Idzik'ing the roster. Pack your bags, Mike.

[long suffering jets fan]

49 minutes ago, legler82 said:

If those those "starters" remain as starters after the rebuild, we will not be a good team.

The starters I have listed are:

Lee, Jenkins,Burris,Edwards,Adams,Maye

Lets let them play a year as a starter before looking to replace them.