Let Macc actually rebuild than critique

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

You are truly one of the worst most miserable Jet fans I've ever encountered.

Unfortunately, as a Jets fan, your choices are to be miserable or delusional.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

So don't watch. There is not a law that you have to watch the team u love to hate. Like any sports fan though they all come climbing back on board with a hint of success. The amount of awesome GMs on this forum is astounding. 

I don't know if I'd be an awesome GM, but I'm pretty sure if you gave me 3 years, I could field the least talented team in the league with no talent at QB or on the offensive side of the ball and no talent at positions that matter in 2017 on the defensive side of the ball.  So, in other words, I could probably do just as well as Macc.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

Mac is rebuilding the right way.  

Drafting well is a key component to this plan and I've seen no evidence he can do it.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

You are truly one of the worst most miserable Jet fans I've ever encountered.

I demand a recount.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But Jets fans would have wanted him run out of town because he dropped two passes in his first PS game. 

I've asked this question many times... Name a player who was actually good that Jets fans "ran out of town." I'll hang up and listen.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Drafting well is a key component to this plan and I've seen no evidence he can do it.

Everyone knows you rebuild by investing high picks in the least important positions on defense and drafting a QB 3-4 rounds early.

[jgb]

Just now, gEYno said:

Everyone knows you rebuild by investing high picks in the least important positions on defense and drafting a QB 3-4 rounds early.

Just build an amazing D line and then who needs to score points?

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I've asked this question many times... Name a player who was actually good that Jets fans "ran out of town." I'll hang up and listen.

Noodle arm is the closest I can think of although he was pretty beloved so back to your point, no one.

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I've asked this question many times... Name a player who was actually good that Jets fans "ran out of town." I'll hang up and listen.

Obviously fans can not run a guy out of town. But Jets fans label guys a bust  before they even have played a regular NFL season game.

[HessStation]

3 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Harrison is a special player.

That was a good call by Mac

[JetFaninMI]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

It is day 1! You and I know the way Woody operates. Make mistakes in hiring....and he can't even fire anyone correctly. Hiring Idzik & keeping Rex Ryan was an epic failure. A smart owner would have fired Rex & told the interim coach vs the Dolphins in that final game, I want to see some of the youngsters.

Jets would have lost & their consolation prize would have been OBJ & god knows who else with those higher picks. 

They tried to do the competitive rebuild. It failed! Woody needed that 2015 run, Jet fans were restless. I think with Woody heading to England it was the perfect time for Macc to tell Woody like it is, we need a true rebuild & Woody went along with it. 

So yes, I get how you feel & your right, it's day 1 after 2 drafts by the scouts Macc put in place. But instead of starting out like we did in 2015 with a whole lot of nothing and a team full of geriatrics, this squad heads into the rebuild with some untapped talent & a lot of youth. It may not seem like it now, but we are in a way better place for our long term future today than we were in 2015. We just need to find that QB to lead this group he's put together & bring some new found confidence to this entire Jet team. 

We need our Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott moment where someone brings in that enthusiasm & makes it fun to be a NY Jet. I'm hoping that starts in 2018 with 9 draft picks & 100 million dollars to spend. We won't be spend. Old players looking for big free agent contracts need not apply.

You have no idea who would have been picked in that scenario. I'm not defending anyone just pointing out that you are giving your opinion as factual.

 

Macc will spend. That is the problem. His ability to write contracts that favor the cap is his strength. Other than that his FA signings and draft picks have been suspect to a fault. I am all for a rebuild. My problem is have a guy who was pegged from the beginning to be weak on talent evaluation as the architect of that rebuild is just plain idiotic. "His guys" as you put it so far have been insanely bad except for the no-brainer draft picks he has made. I know the jury is still out on some you will say but so far it doesn't look too good. Optimism is one thing but blind shortsightedness is quite another. I do not trust Macc with ANY draft pick and all that cap space is gonna be burning a hole in his pocket. I hope they keep Bowles after this season because the thought of Macc hiring "his guy" as a HC with his track record as a talent evaluator as bad as it is doesn't excite me. This way both will be fired together. Macc is not the guy to build this team for the future and if he does what I think he will in the offseason this team will be set back once again by the moves made by a grossly inexperienced GM who is in over his head when it comes to judging talent.

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Obviously fans can not run a guy out of town. But Jets fans label guys a bust  before they even have played a regular NFL season game.

Ok - who have the fans labeled a bust too early.  Who's our star player that we all mislabeled?

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Obviously fans can not run a guy out of town. But Jets fans label guys a bust  before they even have played a regular NFL season game.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

The starters I have listed are:

Lee, Jenkins,Burris,Edwards,Adams,Maye

Lets let them play a year as a starter before looking to replace them.  

 

Calvin Pryor was a 3-year starter, which is more than any of the above can yet say, if that's how we're going to measure success. Was he therefore a good draft pick because he started?

Entering his 3rd season Pryor was also coming off a vastly-improved 2nd season, and people expected him to be better still in '16.

Then after the season we traded him for a meh guy we let go the prior season; a LB who was getting salary-dumped by the cash-flush Browns, lol.

[nycdan]

4 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Never seen a dominating DT/NT like him. 

Interesting that he signed with the Jets in 2012 as an UDFA (28 yo), but it took him till 2015 to emerge as a force, since that time he's beep playing at a pro bowl level and could be a future HOF if he keeps up at this level for another 5 years. 

If you are indeed 'long suffering' then yes you have.  Kris Jenkins, when healthy, was incredible.  We didn't have much of him when healthy but he was even more dominant than Harrison, who is indeed a great player.  We also had a really good one in Jason Ferguson for many years.  I won't bother going back as far as Salaam (and Klecko for that matter).  

 

 

[Pointdexter]

33 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Ok - who have the fans labeled a bust too early.  Who's our star player that we all mislabeled?

Christian Hackenberg. Because we don't yet know if he'll develop into a star. Nevermind that he blew chunks his last 2 years of college, last preseason, by all witnessed accounts all last season at practice, and certainly in front of the world to see this preseason.  No seriously, he may come around. 

[detectivekimble]

5 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I find it hard to believe the Jets would allow Mac to gut the roster then fire him.  The smart move is to see this through.

You don't know Woody Johnson, then.  Woody would fire Mac in 2 seconds if he thought there was someone better out there who would take the job.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

If those those "starters" remain as starters after the rebuild, we will not be a good team.

Really. Plus let's see them start 16 games apiece this year before listing any as a good draft pick. Right now:

• Lee hasn't yet proven himself an average starter, let alone an above average one, or a selection that will prove worthy of the 1st rounder he cost, or that he'll be worth the money to exercise the 5th year team option. Also as a bonus, he's kind of a nutjob.
• Jenkins seems fine so far. Not great, certainly not terrible. Of course plenty of guys seemed fine out of the gate and then became meh (or worse). Hopefully he gets better and better.
• Burris is not a starter yet. If he is, it'll be solely due to there being nobody else (or nobody else healthy) because really he's slow and stinks. His 2 big moments (his 1 reg season and 1 preseason pick) both came as a result of underthrown passes when the receiver he was covering otherwise had him beat. Anyway, right now the starters are Claiborne and Skrine.
• Edwards is a punter, and so far he kind of stinks. He'll get plenty more evaluation time this year with this sorry offense.
• Adams/Maye will of course be starting, but we haven't yet seen which (if either) ends up being worthy of the investment. I'm still far from sold on Adams being worthy of the #6 pick. Maye may be fine for our 2nd rounder, if we hadn't just picked Adams at the top of round 1.
• Shell is not a starter. His best hope seems to be wishing someone better on the roster really screws up or gets injured. All winter long he was talked up here as our obvious starting RT like it was a slam dunk, done deal. When the Jets stopped gameplanning blocking assignments to give him needed extra help, suddenly he doesn't looks so good anymore. And it's not like he lost the starting job to any all-pros either. Not by a long shot. Maybe he turns into something eventually, but right now he'll be backing up someone who might not start for any other team.

In other words, some need to learn the lesson from so many here (if not the same fans) previously calling Deon Simon a successful pick until very recently; a pick who was used by fans to rationalize losing Snacks (and even attempt to make it sound smart to let him go). Not long ago, Simon used to be listed with the rest of the supposed evidence that attempted to show that Maccagnan is any good at this. Now he's just been cut by the Jets for the 2nd time.

[Spoot-Face]

30 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah, but he deserved it.

[nycdan]

3 hours ago, Ken Shroy said:

For me, Mac gets to the end of this year. Need to something from some of these young players. Hack or Petty needs to be starting by the end of the year and show some serious progress.

Fixed.

Everyone seems to have written off Petty just because Bowles apparently can't remember his name.  I still think there's a good chance Petty has more upside than Hack, certainly for this year and probably next.  Not against Hack at all, but Petty looks closer to ready to play so I cannot fathom why the coaches continue to bury him behind McCown.  My sinister guess is if Petty plays and plays fairly well, they won't be able to trot Hack out later in the season for another look after we are eliminated from the playoffs.  The team seems almost desperate to prove Hack was the right pick and it feels to me like they are intentionally burying Petty to give that narrative the best chance of coming true.

I'm fine with the teardown/rebuild.  But if we are still watching McCown in week 9, with a 3-5 record, then I'd be first in line to show Macc and Bowles the door right then.  Won't even need to finish the year.  And if Hack comes in before Petty I'll probably feel the same. 

 

 

 

[ASH1962]

3 hours ago, HessStation said:

I'm a Browns fan homie.

So are we all here basically too. Same $hit, different franchise. 

Oh and for any of you posters (and Willie Colon) that think a light is going to go on and Todd Bowles is going to all of a sudden become a great HC you are nuts and delusional. I think he is 1A to Rich Kotite as the worst HC in Jet history.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Fixed.

Everyone seems to have written off Petty just because Bowles apparently can't remember his name.  I still think there's a good chance Petty has more upside than Hack, certainly for this year and probably next.  Not against Hack at all, but Petty looks closer to ready to play so I cannot fathom why the coaches continue to bury him behind McCown.  My sinister guess is if Petty plays and plays fairly well, they won't be able to trot Hack out later in the season for another look after we are eliminated from the playoffs.  The team seems almost desperate to prove Hack was the right pick and it feels to me like they are intentionally burying Petty to give that narrative the best chance of coming true.

I'm fine with the teardown/rebuild.  But if we are still watching McCown in week 9, with a 3-5 record, then I'd be first in line to show Macc and Bowles the door right then.  Won't even need to finish the year.  And if Hack comes in before Petty I'll probably feel the same. 

 

 

 

#competition

#bestplayersplay

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

#competition

#bestplayersplay

Totally agree.

 

Player	Att	Comp	Yds	Comp %	Yds/Att	TD	TD%	INT	INT%	Long	Sack	Sack/Lost	Rating
Bryce Petty	48	32	426	66.7	8.9	3	6.3	1	2.1	85	2	10	106.8
Christian Hackenberg	74	42	372	56.8	5	2	2.7	2	2.7	26	9	59	68.1

[56mehl56]

40 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yeah that's the reason Idzik was fired - Jets fans delusional to the end.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Totally agree.

 

Player	Att	Comp	Yds	Comp %	Yds/Att	TD	TD%	INT	INT%	Long	Sack	Sack/Lost	Rating
Bryce Petty	48	32	426	66.7	8.9	3	6.3	1	2.1	85	2	10	106.8
Christian Hackenberg	74	42	372	56.8	5	2	2.7	2	2.7	26	9	59	68.1

lol

[Spoot-Face]

I've really liked Mac's philosophy so far, which, IMO, has been to build mainly through the draft, and sign short term FAs to hold the positions down while the young guys develop. A good blend of Idzik's "draft everyone and start them" plan and Tanny's FA frenzy. But, while I like the philosophy, the execution has been more than suspect, in both draft picks and FA acquisitions.

2015 was all about evaluating Geno, and then going from there. Of course, Geno's mouth screwed that plan up and in walks Fitz. I think the team really surprised them that year, so Mac decided to double down and go all in in 2016. What resulted was a complete team breakdown a la the Rex Ryan era. That is 100% on Bowles. Now, three years in, we're essentially still in year 1 of a total rebuild.

Now, I'm torn on what to do with Mac. On one hand, I like his philosophy and realize that this rebuild takes time. On the other hand, it's his fault that the rebuild has been delayed this long and those first two years were practically wasted, with the only sure returns in those two drafts so far looking to be just 2 players (Leo and Jenkins) out of 13. Yeesh.

At this point, my opinion on whether to give Mac another year or two is contingent upon QB play that isn't McCown. If either Petty or Hack step up this season and look good, then I think that alone can change my perception of Mac enough to see what else he can do. Bowles is a whole other topic altogether.

TL;DR Mac's philosophy and plan has been good, but his execution in both the draft and FA yielded limited returns thus far. It's his fault that we're just now rebuilding in year 3. This is his make or break year.

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

This is what these fans completely ignore. No one has a problem with rebuild. It's the fact that this roster has almost nothing in young, promising players despite multiple high draft choices. Absolutely nothing on the offensive side of the ball to be bullish on. The rebuild is years away from bearing any fruit.

i don't agree.  the one thing he hasn't gotten is a qb, yet.  yes the oline at the moment is not playing well but they will come around.  happens on every team when there's a wholesale change in players.  and people point to the much vaunted dline as if they were responsible for all of the wins but none of the losses.  again, they played well but there's only so much they can do especially when one of them is forced to play out of position because there is a p[layer gap.

what i see is they are building a team with much faster players and ones with better attitudes.  i'm not going to say mac shouldn't bear any responsibility but what he has done is position the team for success next year and beyond.  if it works out, give him the creds.  if not, he should be launched.

[Pointdexter]

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i don't agree.  the one thing he hasn't gotten is a qb, yet.  yes the oline at the moment is not playing well but they will come around.  happens on every team when there's a wholesale change in players.  and people point to the much vaunted dline as if they were responsible for all of the wins but none of the losses.  again, they played well but there's only so much they can do especially when one of them is forced to play out of position because there is a p[layer gap.

what i see is they are building a team with much faster players and ones with better attitudes.  i'm not going to say mac shouldn't bear any responsibility but what he has done is position the team for success next year and beyond.  if it works out, give him the creds.  if not, he should be launched.

Very reasonable post.  We disagree a bit on the potential of the offense but it sounds like our overall perspective is not that far apart.

[Dunnie]

i've been a jets fan since 1976 ... this is first competent GM i can remember

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

[long suffering jets fan]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Calvin Pryor was a 3-year starter, which is more than any of the above can yet say, if that's how we're going to measure success. Was he therefore a good draft pick because he started?

Entering his 3rd season Pryor was also coming off a vastly-improved 2nd season, and people expected him to be better still in '16.

Then after the season we traded him for a meh guy we let go the prior season; a LB who was getting salary-dumped by the cash-flush Browns, lol.

Fair enough, that's one player that didn't work out.  Why don't we give these guys a chance before we equate them to Pryor.

[long suffering jets fan]

4 hours ago, nycdan said:

If you are indeed 'long suffering' then yes you have.  Kris Jenkins, when healthy, was incredible.  We didn't have much of him when healthy but he was even more dominant than Harrison, who is indeed a great player.  We also had a really good one in Jason Ferguson for many years.  I won't bother going back as far as Salaam (and Klecko for that matter).  

 

 

I go back to the Namath days.  So having been around so long I forget some of the players we had throughout the years, but you're right about Kris Jenkins.  I should have remembered Jenkins because I had the pleasure of meeting him at a charity event once.  He was awesome on the field and a great guy too.  Too bad about his injury history.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

i've been a jets fan since 1976 ... this is first competent GM i can remember

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

dick steinberg?  he was righting things before he died of stomach cancer.

[derp]

11 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I find it hard to believe the Jets would allow Mac to gut the roster then fire him.  The smart move is to see this through.

Didn't they do something very close to that with Idizik?

I feel like Macc's rebuild started when he took the job. Fitzpatrick playing over his head and the Revis/Woody thing took him on a detour.

But the draft track record isn't awesome really.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Fair enough, that's one player that didn't work out.  Why don't we give these guys a chance before we equate them to Pryor.

My very point is that merely starting so far isn't indicative of any particular accomplishment on the player's part, or on the part of the GM who drafted him.

[EM31]

At this point the firing offense would be to screw up the tank and not have a shot at a top 3 QB

 

The other thing a forward thinking GM can do with tons of cap room is to lock up home grown talent early at a bit of a discount.  It is not the same thing as overpaying for free agents and if done correctly it can enable a select few FA acquisitions later on.  Just don't be wrong with that.