Jets cut Deon Simon

[Philc1]

So are people still trying to argue Macagnan is even a remotely halfway decent drafter?

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

People like you have been saying for months that this guy Simon is just another brilliant draft pick by Macagnan.  OMFG

Find where I said that, I'd like to see my quote. Plus he signed him to the practice squad. He'll be groomed to replace McClendon.

[DMan77]

Uh... Wasn't he a 7th round pick? Why are we bashing Mac for not hitting on a 7th rounder? Eh whatev I guess. 

[BurnleyJet]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Nothing will ever beat the Dorian boose class

Thanks for bringing those "good times" back geez!

[#27TheDominator]

13 hours ago, DMan77 said:

Uh... Wasn't he a 7th round pick? Why are we bashing Mac for not hitting on a 7th rounder? Eh whatev I guess. 

When people cite a guy as one of the hits in a draft class, it is news when he is cut.  There were posters claiming Simon, Burris, Shell and Peake, as some kind of new talent nucleus. 

[legler82]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

When people cite a guy as one of the hits in a draft class, it is news when he is cut.  There were posters claiming Simon, Burris, Shell and Peake, as some kind of new talent nucleus. 

None of those guys are quality starters on average team let alone a good one.

[#27TheDominator]

16 hours ago, Larz said:

Nothing will ever beat the Dorian boose class

Scott Frost had more sacks!  Hey! We can trade Hugh Douglas, edge rushers are a dime a dozen.  At least they got Fabini that year. 

[Jetster]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

When people cite a guy as one of the hits in a draft class, it is news when he is cut.  There were posters claiming Simon, Burris, Shell and Peake, as some kind of new talent nucleus. 

You still don't know the career path of these guys. You don't need Pro Bowl players at every position, Pats have proven that theory. Maye & Adams might develop to take pressure off of our CBs & LBs, Shell is a young dude with great pedigree, Oline in this league takes time & development. Theres been many,many, many big time BUSTS chosen at the top of the draft on the oline over the years. What we should not have been doing is picking Olineman who can barely speak English from divison 2 schools in the 2nd round of the draft! Vlad Ducasse was a REACH by Tanny of epic proportions. And don't forget, Macc tried to trade up when the gas masking pot smoker dropped, he just couldn't pull it off. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

When people cite a guy as one of the hits in a draft class, it is news when he is cut.  There were posters claiming Simon, Burris, Shell and Peake, as some kind of new talent nucleus. 

Not merely claiming; repeatedly claiming for effect. 

Meanwhile, as much as we all still want him to pan out, here in year 3 Peake still can't get onto the field, and in the days between the last preseason game and the first regular season game, the team felt they needed to add not one, but two new WRs: one to line up outside more, and another to man the slot. So what's "huge steal" Peake's value right now on the roster? He's not starting, and they're already holding slots for 2 rookies who won't play, plus whatever is going to go on with Jalin Marshall whom they're also holding onto through his suspension (though he doesn't count against the 53-man limit while he's suspended, and though I believe his salary for the balance of the season is still fully guaranteed, that few hundred K is just Woody's cash and not a cap consideration since he makes the minimum anyway). 

• Anderson
• Kearse
• Kerley
• Peake
• Marshall
• Stewart
• Hansen

One of them is getting dumped when Marshall comes off suspension.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

You still don't know the career path of these guys. You don't need Pro Bowl players at every position, Pats have proven that theory. Maye & Adams might develop to take pressure off of our CBs & LBs, Shell is a young dude with great pedigree, Oline in this league takes time & development. Theres been many,many, many big time BUSTS chosen at the top of the draft on the oline over the years. What we should not have been doing is picking Olineman who can barely speak English from divison 2 schools in the 2nd round of the draft! Vlad Ducasse was a REACH by Tanny of epic proportions. And don't forget, Macc tried to trade up when the gas masking pot smoker dropped, he just couldn't pull it off. 

Do you think that Hackenberg or Devin Smith are going to have as good a career as Vlad Ducasse?  Did you know that he is still playing?  When you pick busts at the top of the draft, you need to hit on your mid and later picks.

Pedigree does not make a starting tackle.  Jerry Rice Jr. has 0 NFL catches. I will add Shell to the list of guys that will have a worse career than Vlad Ducasse.  You don't get points for "trying to trade up."  Not being able to pull it off does not get you a contract extension. 

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not merely claiming; repeatedly claiming for effect. 

Meanwhile, as much as we all still want him to pan out, here in year 3 Peake still can't get onto the field, and in the days between the last preseason game and the first regular season game, the team felt they needed to add not one, but two new WRs: one to line up outside more, and another to man the slot. So what's "huge steal" Peake's value right now on the roster? He's not starting, and they're already holding slots for 2 rookies who won't play, plus whatever is going to go on with Jalin Marshall whom they're also holding onto through his suspension (though he doesn't count against the 53-man limit while he's suspended, and though I believe his salary for the balance of the season is still fully guaranteed, that few hundred K is just Woody's cash and not a cap consideration since he makes the minimum anyway). 

• Anderson
• Kearse
• Kerley
• Peake
• Marshall
• Stewart
• Hansen

One of them is getting dumped when Marshall comes off suspension.

To be a stickler, Peake is only in his second year.  Still looks bad that they dumped the vets in front of him and he didn't move up the depth chart. 

Burris and Shell are the two that really worry me.  They were both basically gifted starting slots and it does not look like either deserves to start.  Not beating out Decker and Marshall is one thing.  Not beating out Brent Qvale, Darryl Roberts and Marcus Williams quite another.

 

[DMan77]

Feels like people get more happiness and satisfaction out of being right about Mac missing on something than they do hoping the Jets succeed. It's kind of depressing... Whole lot of "I TOLD YOU SO!" going on lately... What's that accomplish? Meh. 

[Integrity28]

On 9/2/2017 at 11:55 AM, JetsFanatic said:

If given the opportunity, I actually think Mac will put together a good team he is a very knowledgable and hard working GM.  I also give him credit for having the balls to tear down a team and attempt to build it the right way.  Unfortunately it takes a little patience and time.  As you can see from some of these posts, that's two things some fans don't have.

He's had 3 years to start down this path. In year 3 his best idea was: gut the team.

I think what fans need, if this type of strategy is going to be embraced, is a steady diet of lithium and paint chips. 

Also, it doesn't take "balls" to tear things down in your 3rd year of rebuilding, so that you can rebuild. It takes a gullible chump for a boss, who says "yes" when you pitch the idea in a desperate attempt to extend your career. That's all that Jets HC and GMs do, the minute they get hired by this organization priority 1 becomes "how do I stretch this out for as long as possible", but not one of them ever considers being good at their jobs the best means to that end.

[Integrity28]

10 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Feels like people get more happiness and satisfaction out of being right about Mac missing on something than they do hoping the Jets succeed. It's kind of depressing... Whole lot of "I TOLD YOU SO!" going on lately... What's that accomplish? Meh. 

I think people are lamenting more than boasting though. Subtle difference, imo.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

To be a stickler, Peake is only in his second year.  Still looks bad that they dumped the vets in front of him and he didn't move up the depth chart. 

Burris and Shell are the two that really worry me.  They were both basically gifted starting slots and it does not look like either deserves to start.  Not beating out Decker and Marshall is one thing.  Not beating out Brent Qvale, Darryl Roberts and Marcus Williams quite another.

 

Wasn't he 2015? I was going off memory.

I see now he wasn't. Whatever, still -- burn the witch!

[DMan77]

20 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Hahahahagahahaha  THIS IS TOO FRIGGIN GOOD!

 

 

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

I think people are lamenting more than boasting though. Subtle difference, imo.

Eh maybe I guess. I can see where you're coming from.

But to me it sounds more like people getting excited and giddy that they're point of view gained a point...

It feels like debate class. The "anti-TB" crowd is high-fiving each other because this helps prove their case.

And that's fine... But the satisfaction some people seem to feel is palpable, and that just doesn't compute with me.

Again, I'm not saying my way of thinking is right and others is wrong... Do what you feel... But it just seems weird to me to celebrate something 'winning' that kind of point. We're all on the same team.

I don't understand wanting your organization to fail so you can feel validated.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, DMan77 said:

 

Eh maybe I guess. I can see where you're coming from.

But to me it sounds more like people getting excited and giddy that they're point of view gained a point...

It feels like debate class. The "anti-TB" crowd is high-fiving each other because this helps prove their case.

And that's fine... But the satisfaction some people seem to feel is palpable, and that just doesn't compute with me.

Again, I'm not saying my way of thinking is right and others is wrong... Do what you feel... But it just seems weird to me to celebrate something 'winning' that kind of point. We're all on the same team.

I don't understand wanting your organization to fail so you can feel validated.

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely jack-holes doing what you say - but it's few. I don't take them seriously. 

[kdels62]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

To be a stickler, Peake is only in his second year.  Still looks bad that they dumped the vets in front of him and he didn't move up the depth chart. 

Burris and Shell are the two that really worry me.  They were both basically gifted starting slots and it does not look like either deserves to start.  Not beating out Decker and Marshall is one thing.  Not beating out Brent Qvale, Darryl Roberts and Marcus Williams quite another.

 

I mean Burris is the starter on the outside opposite Claiborne and he had a fairly good preseason. Shell had one bad game out of every game he's played since last season. However, considering Bowles is claiming that Petty and Hackenberg are evenly matched can you really trust anything. 

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

You still don't know the career path of these guys. You don't need Pro Bowl players at every position, Pats have proven that theory. Maye & Adams might develop to take pressure off of our CBs & LBs, Shell is a young dude with great pedigree, Oline in this league takes time & development. Theres been many,many, many big time BUSTS chosen at the top of the draft on the oline over the years. What we should not have been doing is picking Olineman who can barely speak English from divison 2 schools in the 2nd round of the draft! Vlad Ducasse was a REACH by Tanny of epic proportions. And don't forget, Macc tried to trade up when the gas masking pot smoker dropped, he just couldn't pull it off. 

I like that the defense of Maccagnan is still the old "list players he's drafted and then append the words 'might develop' after each one" chestnut, but the list of players keeps getting shorter and shorter.

[JetsFanatic]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

He's had 3 years to start down this path. In year 3 his best idea was: gut the team.

I think what fans need, if this type of strategy is going to be embraced, is a steady diet of lithium and paint chips. 

Also, it doesn't take "balls" to tear things down in your 3rd year of rebuilding, so that you can rebuild. It takes a gullible chump for a boss, who says "yes" when you pitch the idea in a desperate attempt to extend your career. That's all that Jets HC and GMs do, the minute they get hired by this organization priority 1 becomes "how do I stretch this out for as long as possible", but not one of them ever considers being good at their jobs the best means to that end.

He inherited a garbage 4-12 team. By CBA rules he had to spend on salary in his first season so he went for it and got 10 wins. He has cut all the older vets who can no longer play and is building a team the right way. It does balls to do it this way.

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

He inherited a garbage 4-12 team. By CBA rules he had to spend on salary in his first season so he went for it and got 10 wins. He has cut all the older vets who can no longer play and is building a team the right way. It does balls to do it this way.

Having to have to spend money is no big deal. Spending it poorly is.

He was supposed to be building the team the "right way" all along. I see what he's doing as gutless, and laugh at the notion that you are applauding someone for doing it the "right way" when he's spent two years adding zero value or improvement to the team.

[Integrity28]

34 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I like that the defense of Maccagnan is still the old "list players he's drafted and then append the words 'might develop' after each one" chestnut, but the list of players keeps getting shorter and shorter.

I especially like the new addendum of "doing it the right way", when there's been zero appreciable long-term improvements to the team since he took over. The team is actually worse... somehow.

[JetsFanatic]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Having to have to spend money is no big deal. Spending it poorly is.

He was supposed to be building the team the "right way" all along. I see what he's doing as gutless, and laugh at the notion that you are applauding someone for doing it the "right way" when he's spent two years adding zero value or improvement to the team.

I don't agree with you. 

[Integrity28]

Just now, JetsFanatic said:

I don't agree with you. 

Yea, you made that clear. 

[#27TheDominator]

33 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

He inherited a garbage 4-12 team. By CBA rules he had to spend on salary in his first season so he went for it and got 10 wins. He has cut all the older vets who can no longer play and is building a team the right way. It does balls to do it this way.

You keep saying this.  IT IS NOT TRUE.  

1.  It is easily subject to manipulation because it is cash spending, not cap spending.  Switch a signing bonus to a roster bonus = cash spending.

2. The timeframe was 2013-2016.  He did not have to spend like a drunken sailor (on drunken sailors, old drunken sailors) in 2015.  He had two years to spend.  Despite this, he had to redo a bunch of deals (Wilkerson and Skrine, I believe) just to fit the bearded wonder back in for 2016.

3.  There really isn't much of penalty if you don't reach the 89%.  The penalty is that you have to spend the money.  Horrifying.

Disagree with Ape all you like, but educate yourself on the salary cap and stop spouting this fallacy.

Understanding the 89% Cash Spending Requirement

Minimum Cash Spend Requirement under the CBA

NFL salary cap floor explained: It's basically irrelevant

[dbatesman]

19 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I especially like the new addendum of "doing it the right way", when there's been zero appreciable long-term improvements to the team since he took over. The team is actually worse... somehow.

Wasn't his first big move trading a draft pick for Brandon Marshall? I honestly can't think of a wronger way of doing it.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You keep saying this.  IT IS NOT TRUE.  

1.  It is easily subject to manipulation because it is cash spending, not cap spending.  Switch a signing bonus to a roster bonus = cash spending.

2. The timeframe was 2013-2016.  He did not have to spend like a drunken sailor (on drunken sailors, old drunken sailors) in 2015.  He had two years to spend.  Despite this, he had to redo a bunch of deals (Wilkerson and Skrine, I believe) just to fit the bearded wonder back in for 2016.

3.  There really isn't much of penalty if you don't reach the 89%.  The penalty is that you have to spend the money.  Horrifying.

Disagree with Ape all you like, but educate yourself on the salary cap and stop spouting this fallacy.

Understanding the 89% Cash Spending Requirement

Minimum Cash Spend Requirement under the CBA

NFL salary cap floor explained: It's basically irrelevant

All that money to spend, and in 2015 zero of it spent towards locking up the one top-talent unit he inherited while he had tremendous leverage over all 3 of them. So despite spending all that money in his first month of the 2015 season, we still lost Harrison, waited for a year & a half of inflation to extend Mo, and traded Sheldon away 2 years later. Brilliant. Totally, there were no long-term effects there at all because something something only 2 years guaranteed money that's the freaking norm to begin with.

(I'm happy with the Sheldon trade based on where we're at now and what we were likely to do and not do, but honestly it's the trade value of a very late 3rd rounder since we don't get the pick until the following season; a late 2nd rounder next year is not equal trade value to a generic 2nd rounder this year despite everyone's giddiness of getting a 2nd for Sheldon).

[Larz]

6 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Scott Frost had more sacks!  Hey! We can trade Hugh Douglas, edge rushers are a dime a dozen.  At least they got Fabini that year. 

fabini doesn't count, too ugly

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Jetster said:

You still don't know the career path of these guys. You don't need Pro Bowl players at every position, Pats have proven that theory. Maye & Adams might develop to take pressure off of our CBs & LBs, Shell is a young dude with great pedigree, Oline in this league takes time & development. Theres been many,many, many big time BUSTS chosen at the top of the draft on the oline over the years. What we should not have been doing is picking Olineman who can barely speak English from divison 2 schools in the 2nd round of the draft! Vlad Ducasse was a REACH by Tanny of epic proportions. And don't forget, Macc tried to trade up when the gas masking pot smoker dropped, he just couldn't pull it off. 

What are you talking about? The Giants offered him better than chart value and Maccagnan told them to stick it. He "couldn't pull it off" Macc just needed to save those picks for Lee and Hackenberg. 

Giants had pick #10 = 1300

They wanted #20 (Lee) = 850 and #51 (Hack) = 390 = 1240

For arguably the draft's #1 player, at a premium position, that was also a position of need. Mr. Peter Principle said no, for a slightly-built nutbag ILB and a 5th round prospect QB project.