Scouting the qbs for next year thread

[Larz]

Mason Rudolph on tonight at 8

[Mogglez]

On 9/6/2017 at 4:33 PM, Philc1 said:

I've been saying for two years Hack sucks.  Yes, a good pocket passer would be nice but passing on Lamar Jackson because he runs too much is just dumb.

Dependingo it wouldn't.  I'm a fan of Lamar's but if he can't stand tall in the pocket, he won't last long in the league. Look at Kaepernick, RGIII, Manziel, etc .  If you want to win a championship in this league, you need a pocket passing QB.  If Jackson proves he can do that, then I'm all for taking him.  So far his progress is good.  That said, I want to see him go through progressions, read more than one half of the field before taking off and running before we blow a top 3 pick on him.  He's firmly my 5th QB behind all of Rosen, Darnold, Rudolph, Falk right now.  Maybe even 6th behind Baker Mayfield too.

[Mogglez]

On 9/6/2017 at 4:35 PM, Philc1 said:

I don't care what type of QB we get I just want one who isn't mediocre or worse.  There are plenty of great pocket passers as well as great "running qb's"  For every Brady there is a Russell Wilson.  By your logic we would turn down a young Steve Young because he's a running qb and might get hurt.

Russell Wilson is a pocket passer first and foremost.  That's why he has a ring from his 1of his 2 Super Bowl appearances.  The best "running" QB, right now, is Cam Newton and his biggest weakness, one that cost him a ring, is that he hasn't matured into a pure pocket passer yet.

[Mogglez]

On 9/6/2017 at 4:25 PM, Philc1 said:

Well you're the one who wants to pass on Lamar Jackson for another stiff QB or defensive player if we end up with the 10th pick overall or some crappy draft position.  Guess you didn't like Kizer, Mahomes and Watson either.

 

And comparing Lamar Jackson to Tim Tebow as a passer is laughable.

Not him, but nope.

[Bocajetfan]

Jackson is a far better passer than Tebow, but you can say Petriono develops system QB's. Personally would rate him a project with positive potentiall 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

Mason Rudolph on tonight at 8

 

PASSING	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	TD	INT	QBR
Rudolph	20	29	69.0	276	2	0	171.7

 

Looking good so far (halftime) but this seems like a mismatch of teams

[Larz]

12 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

 

PASSING	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	TD	INT	QBR
Rudolph	20	29	69.0	276	2	0	171.7

 

Looking good so far (halftime) but this seems like a mismatch of teams

I only saw the 1st 2 drives. Great motion and quick release. Very accurate

 I was impressed

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

I only saw the 1st 2 drives. Great motion and quick release. Very accurate

 I was impressed

176 passes since his last interception

Russell Wilson holds the Power 5 record with 379 passes in between interceptions.

[Pcola]

5 minutes ago, Larz said:

I only saw the 1st 2 drives. Great motion and quick release. Very accurate

 I was impressed

Rudolph looks like a big guy with a strong arm that takes control of his huddle.  But...

You can't really judge these guys when they play schools like S.AL.  That school has only had a football team for like 10 years.  They couldn't put any pressure on Rudolph at all.  I know it's not his fault, but there's nothing you learned watching him today, that you couldn't learn by watching OK St. practice.

Similar to what Baker Mayfield and Drew Lock played against last week.

But just like Darnold and Rosen last week, Darnold, Mayfield, and Stidham have very tough games tomorrow.  I want to see how these guys play while dealing with adverse conditions.  How do they play while under duress?  How do they run an up tempo no huddle while playing from behind?

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Rudolph looks like a big guy with a strong arm that takes control of his huddle.  But...

You can't really judge these guys when they play schools like S.AL.  That school has only had a football team for like 10 years.  They couldn't put any pressure on Rudolph at all.  I know it's not his fault, but there's nothing you learned watching him today, that you couldn't learn by watching OK St. practice.

Similar to what Baker Mayfield and Drew Lock played against last week.

But just like Darnold and Rosen last week, Darnold, Mayfield, and Stidham have very tough games tomorrow.  I want to see how these guys play while dealing with adverse conditions.  How do they play while under duress?  How do they run an up tempo no huddle while playing from behind?

Call me crazy, but I don't think Rudolf has a strong arm .

[Pcola]

8 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Call me crazy, but I don't think Rudolf has a strong arm .

His offense doesn't require him to throw the ball down the field very much but on his throws in the 10-15 yard range did have some zip on them.  I haven't seen him enough yet to have an informed opinion.  Again, against a team like that, he didn't get pressured at all and for most of the throws, he didn't have to very deep in his progressions.

I still think he currently well behind the Cali Kids.

[KRL]

8 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Call me crazy, but I don't think Rudolf has a strong arm .

Rudolph is in a straight up "gimmick" offense where he never huddles, looks
to the sideline for the play and claps his hands to snap the ball.  It's
going to take a ton of projection to determine if he can make it at the
next level.  Nice size but I'm not sure about his arm strength

[NYs Stepchild]

8 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Call me crazy, but I don't think Rudolf has a strong arm .

No I don't see it either. Lots of air under his passes. They get there but he sure doesn't give the cameraman any trouble. 

[Joe W. Namath]

On 9/6/2017 at 4:34 PM, Philc1 said:

In your world we should pass on Lamar Jackson because of RG3, a different player on a different team who was never even good to begin with.

RG3 was on his way to being one of the best qbs in the league before the injury.  He knee was never the same and he could not play anymore because of it.

[Joe W. Namath]

I am watching Jackson now.  For the second week in a row I am very impressed.  Poised, smart decisions, big arm, pretty accurate, mobile etc.  i like him.  

[BCJet]

17 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Dependingo it wouldn't.  I'm a fan of Lamar's but if he can't stand tall in the pocket, he won't last long in the league. Look at Kaepernick, RGIII, Manziel, etc .  If you want to win a championship in this league, you need a pocket passing QB.  If Jackson proves he can do that, then I'm all for taking him.  So far his progress is good.  That said, I want to see him go through progressions, read more than one half of the field before taking off and running before we blow a top 3 pick on him.  He's firmly my 5th QB behind all of Rosen, Darnold, Rudolph, Falk right now.  Maybe even 6th behind Baker Mayfield too.

Standing tall in the pocket and being tough enough to get the throw off before he is going to get hit are things he is often praised for.

[Lith]

18 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I am watching Jackson now.  For the second week in a row I am very impressed.  Poised, smart decisions, big arm, pretty accurate, mobile etc.  i like him.  

75 yard TD pass he just threw was a thing of beauty.  Avoids the rush and instead of taking off and running, he drops a dime 50 yards downfield hitting the WR in stride for the TD.  Beautiful play.

[KRL]

Watching Lamar Jackson against No. Carolina and he's a tough projection
to the next level:

Pro
- He's an electric athlete with a big arm and terrific speed
- Good accuracy on deep vertical throws

Con
- He's in a "gimmick" offense where he never calls a play or
huddles.  So you have to project if he can call a play, take a snap
from center, make progressions when passing or set protections
- Very scrawny frame
- He looks to run entirely too much opening himself up to punishment
- His athletic ability deceives him into making bad decisions when
under pressure in the pocket.  Which leads to putting the ball in harms
way
- Accuracy on intermediate throws isn't great
 

[Joe W. Namath]

I have noticed some poor accuracy on some easy throws.  Not sure if he is just off or if this is consistant.

[Lith]

I agree.  He has missed a lot of open receivers today.  Handful of highlight reel plays, but he has left a lot plays on the field this afternoon.  

[Mogglez]

26 minutes ago, KRL said:

Watching Lamar Jackson against No. Carolina and he's a tough projection
to the next level:

Pro
- He's an electric athlete with a big arm and terrific speed
- Good accuracy on deep vertical throws

Con
- He's in a "gimmick" offense where he never calls a play or
huddles.  So you have to project if he can call a play, take a snap
from center, make progressions when passing or set protections
- Very scrawny frame
- He looks to run entirely too much opening himself up to punishment
- His athletic ability deceives him into making bad decisions when
under pressure in the pocket.  Which leads to putting the ball in harms
way
- Accuracy on intermediate throws isn't great
 

This pretty much nails it.  Great job, as usual, KRL.

I'm a fan of Lamar's, but I just don't see top 5 pick.  I see early 2nd or 3rd...maybe bottom 1st for a team that falls in love and overdrafts him.  He's a guy who needs to be seriously molded into into the player he can ultimately become.  He's still not reading the field as often as I'd like to see him do.  He's looking to run way too quickly.  Instead of standing tall, navigating the pocket, and going through his progressions, he's looking at one guy and if he's covered, he's taking off.  I'm typing this as he runs another one in.  It's great for the highlight reels and makes him such a fun player to watch, but he's missed a ton of open guys today and he needs to continue refining his passing skills.  Ball placement isn't totally there and, as you said, he gets really iffy on intermediate throws, a staple of the NFL.

I'm glad you also brought up the offense too.  This is the same offense that made Tyler Wilson look like a top 5 pick.  Petrino is a great offensive coach, but his system makes guys look a lot better than they are and it is something that needs to be mentioned.

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, BCJet said:

Standing tall in the pocket and being tough enough to get the throw off before he is going to get hit are things he is often praised for.

See my recent reply to KRL to get a good feel for what I mean.

[KRL]

Even Jackson's last TD to make it 40-28 wasn't great.  The TE was wide open to the goal

post but Jackson threw behind him where there were defenders and the TE had to make

a difficult catch

[dbatesman]

Jackson's completion percentages prior to this year are 54.7% and 56.2%. Hard pass.

[Lizard King]

I'm not sold on Jackson as a real QB. Reasons mentioned already about passing. 

[Lupz27]

8 hours ago, KRL said:

Rudolph is in a straight up "gimmick" offense where he never huddles, looks
to the sideline for the play and claps his hands to snap the ball.  It's
going to take a ton of projection to determine if he can make it at the
next level.  Nice size but I'm not sure about his arm strength

Agreed, kid is very accurate particularly on deep passes, lacks some touch on short passes, and DOES NOT like being pressured at all!  Throw in the gimmick offense without anything elite about his arm, and he is basically Bryce Petty, but with really above average leadership skills, and with some work he can be a good NFL QB with a team that has a great O-line.

[Lupz27]

I didn't watch Jackson today, BUT my thoughts on him as a pro prospect are your going to have to do what the Falcons did with Vick, run the ball 70% of the time his first 2-3 years, those teams put up prolific team rushing totals, and the other 30% of the time take the 15% WOW did you see what Jackson did then sling it down field for a TD, and the 15% WOW I can't believe Jackson made that decision wtf was he thinking.  You can win this way with the right O-line, complement RB's, AND a OC willing to build around this concept like the Falcons did, and hope come year 3 you can finish the polish work to have Jackson successfully running a more traditional pocket passing oriented offense with obviously still some of the old play book no need to not use his gifts.

So if I drafted Lamar Jackson I'd basically follow the exact script the Falcons used with Vick.  And I think it could work right from the start.

[Lupz27]

Shame all these great games are on at roughly the same time, Auburn, Washington, USC, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma all start between 7-8:30 tonight.

[Jet_Engine1]

Most of them will be preempted by Hurricane coverage down here.  Lame.

[HawkeyeJet]

People need to get over whatever it is about Jackson that they dismiss him, because he's a baller.  Mariota, maybe better.  He will definitely be in the conversation.

[Bocajetfan]

18 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Shame all these great games are on at roughly the same time, Auburn, Washington, USC, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma all start between 7-8:30 tonight.

Stuck with hurricane coverage on all the network channels. Wish at least one would realize some people need a little break from the same reports hour after hour.they have the ability to break in with importation breaking information 

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

People need to get over whatever it is about Jackson that they dismiss him, because he's a baller.  Mariota, maybe better.  He will definitely be in the conversation.

Not even remotely close.

[Mogglez]

35 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Shame all these great games are on at roughly the same time, Auburn, Washington, USC, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma all start between 7-8:30 tonight.

It's a damn shame.

[Mogglez]

Rosen about to take the field in 10 minutes.

[Tinstar]

6 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

People need to get over whatever it is about Jackson that they dismiss him, because he's a baller.  Mariota, maybe better.  He will definitely be in the conversation.

kid is a taller mike Vick .  After 2 weeks, he's by far the best college football player in the country . I don't want to say that KRL is wrong, because he might be right about Jackson Calling plays and taking snaps from under center, but I saw that kid today going from one side of the field to the other with his head . I even made a comment about it to my son. He may not be the best pro prospect at QB, but he's the best college football player in the country right now.