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Bowles has to go and he has to go right now.


Lil Woody

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His idea of a rebuild consists of us starting McCown, Kearse, Forte and Tye(then ASJ) and I'm only assuming Kerley enters the starting lineup as soon as he is able to dress.  This guy is going to cling on to veteran players to try to save his own ass.  He's not at all on board with the rebuilding efforts.  So unless you really believe that he is actively tanking (which he's not obviously) then his efforts/actions totally contradict the stated rebuilding efforts of the franchise.  He's not looking to develop young players, imo he's looking to get out of this season looking somewhat competent and playing boring, mistake free ball and stay out of the way of the punchlines on the back pages.  Either make him report to Macc or cut him for an interim coach willing to play the kids and work entirely on developing talent. 

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Seferian-Jenkins is 24, fwiw.

I am not a fan of Bowles in any form or fashion, but it's just not as easy as starting every young player on the roster.  Young players need to learn from someone, and other young players aren't the people to do it.

 I think people also underestimate how many players give a rats ass about rebuilding.  Players, young or old, want to win.  If you have a coach that just flat out plays young guys simply because they are young guys, then that coach is going to lose the respect of his players almost immediately.

Im not saying guys like Forte and McCown should be playing lead roles all year, but it's not as though we have hot young prospects at those positions.  The younger guys at those  positions will play eventually.  Week 2 is not the time to do it, regardless of how crappy Bowles or the team is.

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No point to bringing in an interim to see him win a game or 2 on adrenaline and then 1. become the candidate and 2. fowl up the top pick. let this horror show play out. Need to see who the best guy is in January, whether it be someone who wants to take a pile of $ like Gruden or Cowher to take this debacle over. Or if there is some hot college coach or other candidate. 

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1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Seferian-Jenkins is 24, fwiw.

I am not a fan of Bowles in any form or fashion, but it's just not as easy as starting every young player on the roster.  Young players need to learn from someone, and other young players aren't the people to do it.

 I think people also underestimate how many players give a rats ass about rebuilding.  Players, young or old, want to win.  If you have a coach that just flat out plays young guys simply because they are young guys, then that coach is going to lose the respect of his players almost immediately.

Im not saying guys like Forte and McCown should be playing lead roles all year, but it's not as though we have hot young prospects at those positions.  The younger guys at those  positions will play eventually.  Week 2 is not the one to do it, regardless of how crappy Bowles or the team is.

I get it about ASJ, but he's more likely just a bridge guy.  Another talented knucklehead showing little interest in doing whatever it takes to be successful at the highest levels. 

And I'm not advocating only playing every young player on the roster if they aren't ready, but if we look at how our younger players are being utilized it's not encouraging.  http://subscribers.footballguys.com/teams/teampage-nyj-6.php

I also get your points about players feelings and how they respect/respond to coaches.  But....this year?  Who cares?  Most of these scrubs will be gone in the offseason and Bowles will be sh*tcanned before that.  So why are we going forward with the facade?  Why pretend for the sake of the fanbase and media that we are trying?  We are clearly not.  Any player that doesn't get that after we cut all of the best talent on this team is too stupid to worry about his feelings on the rebuild anyway. 

For once, I'd like to see a singular direction and unified goals on this pos franchise.

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10 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

I get it about ASJ, but he's more likely just a bridge guy.  Another talented knucklehead showing little interest in doing whatever it takes to be successful at the highest levels. 

And I'm not advocating only playing every young player on the roster if they aren't ready, but if we look at how our younger players are being utilized it's not encouraging.  http://subscribers.footballguys.com/teams/teampage-nyj-6.php

I also get your points about players feelings and how they respect/respond to coaches.  But....this year?  Who cares?  Most of these scrubs will be gone in the offseason and Bowles will be sh*tcanned before that.  So why are we going forward with the facade?  Why pretend for the sake of the fanbase and media that we are trying?  We are clearly not.  Any player that doesn't get that after we cut all of the best talent on this team is too stupid to worry about his feelings on the rebuild anyway. 

For once, I'd like to see a singular direction and unified goals on this pos franchise.

The first bolded statement makes you lose all credibility.  ASJ has completely turned his life around and is doing everything it takes to become better player and man.  And no, he's not a bridge guy.  He's a guy we took a chance on that we'll likely sign long-term if he produces this year.   You should find another team to root for.  We have enough haters riding the d already. 

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Todd Bowles is a good HC, who happens to be in a terrible situation . For the foreseeable future he's going to be the brunt of every Jet bias right or wrong . He's a HC, so he can take it, but some of it has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the history of this franchise that he's trying to change . He may get fired, but he will have gotten fired doing things his way, and when that happens, you can sleep at night .

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40 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

His idea of a rebuild consists of us starting McCown, Kearse, Forte and Tye(then ASJ) and I'm only assuming Kerley enters the starting lineup as soon as he is able to dress.  This guy is going to cling on to veteran players to try to save his own ass.  He's not at all on board with the rebuilding efforts.  So unless you really believe that he is actively tanking (which he's not obviously) then his efforts/actions totally contradict the stated rebuilding efforts of the franchise.  He's not looking to develop young players, imo he's looking to get out of this season looking somewhat competent and playing boring, mistake free ball and stay out of the way of the punchlines on the back pages.  Either make him report to Macc or cut him for an interim coach willing to play the kids and work entirely on developing talent. 

If it's Bowles fault entirely that McCown is the starter, why is it that McCown is on the team?

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7 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Todd Bowles is a good HC, who happens to be in a terrible situation . For the foreseeable future he's going to be the brunt of every Jet bias right or wrong . He's a HC, so he can take it, but some of it has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the history of this franchise that he's trying to change . He may get fired, but he will have gotten fired doing things his way, and when that happens, you can sleep at night .

If by "his way" you mean punting on 4th down down 2 scores as time is running out with a defense that couldn't stop Mccoy all day, then yeah, he's deserved to be bashed. With that said, I was one of the first here to advocate for the tank job for Darnold. I am confident that Bowles gives us the best chance to lose so the last thing i want is for him to get fired midseason. The last thing this team needs is a spark and head coach who knows what he is doing. 

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17 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Todd Bowles is a good HC, who happens to be in a terrible situation . For the foreseeable future he's going to be the brunt of every Jet bias right or wrong . He's a HC, so he can take it, but some of it has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the history of this franchise that he's trying to change . He may get fired, but he will have gotten fired doing things his way, and when that happens, you can sleep at night .

link??

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Todd Bowles is a good HC, who happens to be in a terrible situation . For the foreseeable future he's going to be the brunt of every Jet bias right or wrong . He's a HC, so he can take it, but some of it has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the history of this franchise that he's trying to change . He may get fired, but he will have gotten fired doing things his way, and when that happens, you can sleep at night .

If Todd Bowles was a good head coach he would have put his career before his good friend Casey Rodgers who couldn't get anything out of a defense loaded with big names...even passed their prime they shouldn't have looked half as bad as they did. I honestly believe defensive coodinator is out weakest link at the moment and he is going to drag everyone down with him

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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52 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Seferian-Jenkins is 24, fwiw.

I am not a fan of Bowles in any form or fashion, but it's just not as easy as starting every young player on the roster.  Young players need to learn from someone, and other young players aren't the people to do it.

 I think people also underestimate how many players give a rats ass about rebuilding.  Players, young or old, want to win.  If you have a coach that just flat out plays young guys simply because they are young guys, then that coach is going to lose the respect of his players almost immediately.

Im not saying guys like Forte and McCown should be playing lead roles all year, but it's not as though we have hot young prospects at those positions.  The younger guys at those  positions will play eventually.  Week 2 is not the time to do it, regardless of how crappy Bowles or the team is.

I doubt any of the players would be upset about throwing some passes over 3 yards to some young receivers.

I doubt they would be upset if we attempted to make first downs on 2nd down. You don't always need to use 3 downs to get a first.

I really don't think anyone would be upset if Petty got a start. If Hack gets into a game then there might be a revolt. 

Bowles has no problem putting his young defensive players out there. He's not worried about a revolt there. Why is that?

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29 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Todd Bowles is a good HC, who happens to be in a terrible situation . For the foreseeable future he's going to be the brunt of every Jet bias right or wrong . He's a HC, so he can take it, but some of it has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the history of this franchise that he's trying to change . He may get fired, but he will have gotten fired doing things his way, and when that happens, you can sleep at night .

What have you seen over the last two years to indicate that Bowles is a GOOD coach?  I can tell you what Ive seen that tells me he's a bad coach:

1 - Terrible game manager and in-game decision maker

2 - Terrible at time management

3- Completely lost control of the locker room last year

4- Apparent unwillingness to lean on and develop young players despite being force fed a mostly young roster

 

He needs to go.  NOW. 

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39 minutes ago, Banks81 said:

The first bolded statement makes you lose all credibility.  ASJ has completely turned his life around and is doing everything it takes to become better player and man.  And no, he's not a bridge guy.  He's a guy we took a chance on that we'll likely sign long-term if he produces this year.   You should find another team to root for.  We have enough haters riding the d already. 

Proof is in his actions.  Not in the words spun by his agents to the tabloids.  We will see what kind of man he is trying to become.  But his past actions suggest he is a bum.  And it's way past time we stopped taking chances on other peoples garbage.  It almost never works out. This whole low risk, high reward...buy troubled players and give them a springboard approach was a major flaw in Tannenbaum's approach.  And when it does work, these reclamation projects want big money to stay and have no loyalty to the team who put in the work to help them resurrect their career.  See Santonio Holmes.

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4 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

What have you seen over the last two years to indicate that Bowles is a GOOD coach?  I can tell you what Ive seen that tells me he's a bad coach:

1 - Terrible game manager and in-game decision maker

2 - Terrible at time management

3- Completely lost control of the locker room last year

4- Apparent unwillingness to lean on and develop young players despite being force fed a mostly young roster

 

He needs to go.  NOW. 

Yeah but he is the emotional leader and that cannot be replaced so easily. 

His players would lean up against a brick wall for him.

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1 hour ago, Lil Woody said:

His idea of a rebuild consists of us starting McCown, Kearse, Forte and Tye(then ASJ) and I'm only assuming Kerley enters the starting lineup as soon as he is able to dress.  This guy is going to cling on to veteran players to try to save his own ass.  He's not at all on board with the rebuilding efforts.  So unless you really believe that he is actively tanking (which he's not obviously) then his efforts/actions totally contradict the stated rebuilding efforts of the franchise.  He's not looking to develop young players, imo he's looking to get out of this season looking somewhat competent and playing boring, mistake free ball and stay out of the way of the punchlines on the back pages.  Either make him report to Macc or cut him for an interim coach willing to play the kids and work entirely on developing talent. 

What's wrong with playing Kearse in the slot and letting ASJ play?  Those guys SHOULD be playing.

McCown I agree makes no sense, and neither does Forte.  I mean, I get you can't cut him because of the cost, but he could ride the pine.  UNLESS of course, someone who signs the cheques tells you to play the people who have the greatest amounts of zeroes on said cheques.

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6 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Proof is in his actions.  Not in the words spun by his agents to the tabloids.  We will see what kind of man he is trying to become.  But his past actions suggest he is a bum.

So what exactly does he have to do, other than show up to camp in the best shape he ever has, accept his punishment like a man, gone into rehab on his own, and talks openly about his past issues and how he wants to live moving forward?

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8 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:


If Todd Bowles was a good head coach he would have put his career before his good friend Casey Rodgers who couldn't get anything out of a defense loaded with big names...even passed their prime they shouldn't have looked half as bad as they did. I honestly believe defensive coodinator is out weakest link at the moment and he is going to drag everyone down with him

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

The problem isn't the coaches, it's the players . The Jets deploy a 34 defense getting it's pass rush from their DEs . That's all wrong . If they switch to a 43, they don't have  the DEs to play the scheme (minus Ealy) and they have no true NT .  The strength of the defense is the front 7 and it's made up of 5 3T defensive tackles 1 43 DE and a bunch of players who can only operate in the 34 scheme at outside linebacker .

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15 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I doubt any of the players would be upset about throwing some passes over 3 yards to some young receivers.

I doubt they would be upset if we attempted to make first downs on 2nd down. You don't always need to use 3 downs to get a first.

I really don't think anyone would be upset if Petty got a start. If Hack gets into a game then there might be a revolt. 

Bowles has no problem putting his young defensive players out there. He's not worried about a revolt there. Why is that?

Which young defensive players are starting ahead of someone that is better than them?

The rest of your post is confusing. What does route depth and play selection have to do with starting players that aren't the best player at their position?

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1 hour ago, Bugg said:

No point to bringing in an interim to see him win a game or 2 on adrenaline and then 1. become the candidate and 2. fowl up the top pick. let this horror show play out. Need to see who the best guy is in January, whether it be someone who wants to take a pile of $ like Gruden or Cowher to take this debacle over. Or if there is some hot college coach or other candidate. 

Let's let Blowes lose the way he wants. he gives us the best chance of losing

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Just now, CanadaSteve said:

So what exactly does he have to do, other than show up to camp in the best shape he ever has, accept his punishment like a man, gone into rehab on his own, and talks openly about his past issues and how he wants to live moving forward?

It's a nice story, and if this were a fairytale, I'd be happy with it.  But drunks relapse and fall apart. Alcoholics don't wake up one day and decide not to be alcoholics anymore.  There is always a good % chance this guy dives back into the bottle on any given day.  You want to be nice, give the benefit of the doubt to players, feel good ...I get all that.  I don't.

I'd rather my GM be clinical, cold and ruthless. I don''t want to accept players with shortcomings.  I don't want a team that rummages through the bargain bin and coms out smiling.  I want a GM that demand excellence from everyone under him, and if they fail to provide that level of professionalism and effort that is demanded of them...I would want to see them made an example of in effigy to the next players on the team.

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Which young defensive players are starting ahead of someone that is better than them?

The rest of your post is confusing. What does route depth and play selection have to do with starting players that aren't the best player at their position?

Why do they have to be better? No own said anything about better.

Who is MCcown and Forte better than?

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I think people also underestimate how many players give a rats ass about rebuilding.  Players, young or old, want to win.  If you have a coach that just flat out plays young guys simply because they are young guys, then that coach is going to lose the respect of his players almost immediately.

He'd earn a ton of respect, including from me, if he benched Wlikerson until he started to play up to his contract.  

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Just now, NYs Stepchild said:

Why do they have to be better? No own said anything about better.

Who is MCcown and Forte better than?

Are you drunk?  The whole post you quoted me in was about not playing younger players simply because they are younger, not a better player.

If you don't think McCown is better than Petty or Hackenberg right now, then more power too you.  

As far as Forte, the only RB that is young on the team is McGuire.... you think he is better than Forte or Powell?

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He is now a statistically proven bad coach and clearly the man for the job....to tank:

The math says New York Jets coach Todd Bowles made the wrong call by punting on fourth-and-8.

Don't take my word for it; here's Brian Burke, a senior analytics specialist at ESPN and a nationally-recognized expert:

"It was a mistake for the Jets to punt there," Burke said. "Their win probability [on our model] certainly did not go up based on the decision to punt.

"Their odds were very long either way. Their chances to win based on their options were:

Punt: 1.1 percent.

Go for it: 2.0 percent.

"In absolute terms, a difference of only .9 percent is small," Burke added. "But, however small their overall chance to win, the decision to punt cut it nearly in half."

The Jets had the ball at their 44 with four minutes remaining in the fourth quarter, trailing the Buffalo Bills by two scores -- 21-12, the eventual final score. On Monday, Bowles, said, "If we got a little closer, I might have went for it, but fourth-and-8 is a tough pill to swallow right there."

But it wasn't as tough as Bowles suggested, according to Burke.

"We calculated their 'break-even' conversion probability required to make going for it worth the risk was only 14 percent, and the league average conversion rate in similar situations is nearly 32 percent," he said. "This means it was should have been an obvious decision to go for it. No NFL offense, no matter how much they struggle, is that much worse than league average."

Obviously, Bowles didn't have the luxury of reaching out to an expert; he had to make a decision in about 30 seconds. This wasn't a game of Madden; it was real life with real consequences.

"You go by the feel or the pulse for the game and see how well we’re moving the ball or not moving the ball," he said. "You make calculated decisions."

This one didn't work. The Jets probably would've lost anyway -- it was a near certainty -- but it turned out to be the hot-button issue. On this one, the math says he blew it.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/71187/analytics-expert-says-jets-late-punt-an-obvious-mistake-and-explains-why

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21 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Proof is in his actions.  Not in the words spun by his agents to the tabloids.  We will see what kind of man he is trying to become.  But his past actions suggest he is a bum.  And it's way past time we stopped taking chances on other peoples garbage.  It almost never works out. This whole low risk, high reward...buy troubled players and give them a springboard approach was a major flaw in Tannenbaum's approach.  And when it does work, these reclamation projects want big money to stay and have no loyalty to the team who put in the work to help them resurrect their career.  See Santonio Holmes.

If sitting in your own feces drunk & passed out plastered all over the internet doesn't get you to change your ways than nothing will,lol.

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Are you drunk?  The whole post you quoted me in was about not playing younger players simply because they are younger, not a better player.

If you don't think McCown is better than Petty or Hackenberg right now, then more power too you.  

As far as Forte, the only RB that is young on the team is McGuire.... you think he is better than Forte or Powell?

I think what is missing from the points you 2 are discussing is potential.  It's not just young v Old. Forte and McCown have no potential to improve, and we have Petty (if healthy) and McGuire who have some potential but are doing absolutely nothing.  Kearse won't improve as a player, but he's also not stopping Anderson, Hansen and Stewart from getting on the field.  I do hate that Kearse led the team in targets though.  That's the issue I have with him and how he's being used by Bowels.  It's not across the board where we have young talent being wasted because an older player is bottlenecking them, but it is happening at some important positions and it's happening in different ways. 

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