NY Post: "Early signs point to Johnson retaining Bowles and Maccagnan no matter how poorly they finish"

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Is it possible Chrissy is even more stupid than Woody?

Peas in a pod. 

[Mike135]

The only way their jobs should be in jeopardy is if they win games.

[Mogglez]

Obviously the only answer that would have sufficed would be "I'm gonna rip their hearts out in front of their families and banish them to the shadow realm if we don't win a Super Bowl".  

Did anyone seriously expect to hear anything meaningful regarding their fates in a f*cking week 3 media session?  Really?  Are there people who really believe that what he said wasn't total fluff?

 

[Green DNA]

5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

"I'm not Jerry Jones". -- yeah no sh_t you idiot Jones has won multiple Super Bowls, knows about football, is a great businessman and currently has an elite NFL team

The Cowboys have won 2 playoff games (both wildcard games) since 1996.  The Jets have had more success in the playoffs over the past 20 years, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

** Disclaimer: This does not mean that the Jets don't suck and their owner is not clueless

[TMAC]

7 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/21/jets-new-owner-would-do-well-channeling-a-bit-of-jerry-jones/

Perhaps the most interesting thing Christopher Johnson said about his early tenure as the owner of the Jets is that “I’m not Jerry Jones.”

That’s too bad.

Right about now Jets fans might like an owner with Jones’ hands-on temperament, someone who will make those responsible for the team’s meager 0-2 start accountable or at least uncomfortable. Rebuilding is one thing; being barely competitive is another.

A Jerry Jones-type might demand a little more from his players and especially his coaching staff after losing to the Bills, 21-12, and to the Raiders, 45-20. Instead Johnson sounded a lot like his older brother, Woody, by preaching patience.

“I hope the fans will buy into our plan,” Christopher Johnson said on Wednesday.

In his first interview with reporters, Johnson, 58, said he’ll make all football decisions while his brother, team owner Woody Johnson, serves a four-year term as the U.S. ambassador to the United Kingdom. Those decisions will include whether to retain head coach Todd Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan after what is shaping up to be a horrendous season.

Johnson vowed he wouldn’t decide on the two most important jobs on the team until after the season and that the Jets’ won-loss record won’t be a factor.

“My brother once said he wasn’t judging the guys on the won-loss record, but on their progression, and I agree with that,” Johnson said. “This is a team on the rise. There’s some growing pains right now, but we have a great plan and I’m going to do everything I can to support the people in this building.”

The Jets have told us about their plan, which is certainly logical. They got rid of overpriced, aging veterans and are trying to rebuild with young talent. Every player selected in the last two draft classes has made the team. And even if it’s in the Jets’ long-term interest to get one of the top draft picks next spring to use on a prized quarterback, it’s never acceptable to go through the motions for 16 weeks. The Jets look in danger of doing just that.

Twelve years younger than his brother Woody, Christopher Johnson has been part of the Jets organization since it was purchased by the family in 2000. A tennis player and active outdoorsman, he works out five times a week and looks like he could go five sets with Rafael Nadal.

He feels qualified to handle his new position, saying he was present for all the major football decisions for the last 16 years and was a sounding board for his brother.

“It’s not like I’m a neophyte in the building,” he said.

As he sat in a starched white shirt with rolled-up sleeves and a green tie, Johnson spoke directly to the fan base when he said: “I bleed green like they do.” He admitted he’s “not a patient fan,” but urged Jets fans to be.

“I want to see this team progress every game,” he said. “I’m not happy with losses. I’m not happy with mistakes.”

Nonetheless, early signs point to Johnson retaining Bowles and Maccagnan no matter how poorly they finish. He said he admires Maccagnan’s drafts and Bowles’ connection with players. And if Woody truly has no say in football matters, it seems even more unlikely Christopher Johnson would change the entire direction of the franchise by firing Bowles and Maccagnan.

Still, this season can’t be a waste and that’s why he needs to be a bit more like Jerry Jones and make the players and coaches know they’re not getting a free pass.

He mentioned leaving Super Bowl tickets for Woody because “every little brother wants to show up his big brother.”

He’s got four years to do it. It won’t hurt if he acts more like an owner and less like a baby sitter.

Inheriting a lot of money does not make you smart.

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, DMan77 said:

Mac is safe. Bowles can still coach his way out of the job.

Agreed. Barring Adams and Mayes being busts, which they aren't, Macc was only getting fired in the delusional mind of SOJFs. Macc hasn't been amazing but he's been good enough. The last thing you want to do is constantly fire GMs and create a sense of chaos in your organization unless a guy is idzik-level incompetent. His good moves (Williams,. Adams, Mayes, Anderson, Shell, kearse+2nd, asj...) offset some of his bad moves (Fitz second year, Lee Smith,hack...). 

I still think bowles is on the hot seat and could coach his way out of a job. I've seen very few good coaching moves to justify keeping him around. 

[FlagmanL11]

8 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/21/jets-new-owner-would-do-well-channeling-a-bit-of-jerry-jones/

Perhaps the most interesting thing Christopher Johnson said about his early tenure as the owner of the Jets is that “I’m not Jerry Jones.”

That’s too bad.

Right about now Jets fans might like an owner with Jones’ hands-on temperament, someone who will make those responsible for the team’s meager 0-2 start accountable or at least uncomfortable. Rebuilding is one thing; being barely competitive is another.

A Jerry Jones-type might demand a little more from his players and especially his coaching staff after losing to the Bills, 21-12, and to the Raiders, 45-20. Instead Johnson sounded a lot like his older brother, Woody, by preaching patience.

“I hope the fans will buy into our plan,” Christopher Johnson said on Wednesday.

In his first interview with reporters, Johnson, 58, said he’ll make all football decisions while his brother, team owner Woody Johnson, serves a four-year term as the U.S. ambassador to the United Kingdom. Those decisions will include whether to retain head coach Todd Bowles and general manager Mike Maccagnan after what is shaping up to be a horrendous season.

Johnson vowed he wouldn’t decide on the two most important jobs on the team until after the season and that the Jets’ won-loss record won’t be a factor.

“My brother once said he wasn’t judging the guys on the won-loss record, but on their progression, and I agree with that,” Johnson said. “This is a team on the rise. There’s some growing pains right now, but we have a great plan and I’m going to do everything I can to support the people in this building.”

The Jets have told us about their plan, which is certainly logical. They got rid of overpriced, aging veterans and are trying to rebuild with young talent. Every player selected in the last two draft classes has made the team. And even if it’s in the Jets’ long-term interest to get one of the top draft picks next spring to use on a prized quarterback, it’s never acceptable to go through the motions for 16 weeks. The Jets look in danger of doing just that.

Twelve years younger than his brother Woody, Christopher Johnson has been part of the Jets organization since it was purchased by the family in 2000. A tennis player and active outdoorsman, he works out five times a week and looks like he could go five sets with Rafael Nadal.

He feels qualified to handle his new position, saying he was present for all the major football decisions for the last 16 years and was a sounding board for his brother.

“It’s not like I’m a neophyte in the building,” he said.

As he sat in a starched white shirt with rolled-up sleeves and a green tie, Johnson spoke directly to the fan base when he said: “I bleed green like they do.” He admitted he’s “not a patient fan,” but urged Jets fans to be.

“I want to see this team progress every game,” he said. “I’m not happy with losses. I’m not happy with mistakes.”

Nonetheless, early signs point to Johnson retaining Bowles and Maccagnan no matter how poorly they finish. He said he admires Maccagnan’s drafts and Bowles’ connection with players. And if Woody truly has no say in football matters, it seems even more unlikely Christopher Johnson would change the entire direction of the franchise by firing Bowles and Maccagnan.

Still, this season can’t be a waste and that’s why he needs to be a bit more like Jerry Jones and make the players and coaches know they’re not getting a free pass.

He mentioned leaving Super Bowl tickets for Woody because “every little brother wants to show up his big brother.”

He’s got four years to do it. It won’t hurt if he acts more like an owner and less like a baby sitter.

This guys is a total idiot.  Admire his drafts and Bowles is the best coach he has been around, and also the only coach he has been around.  Talk about driving away the fans....  

[DMan77]

19 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Agreed. Barring Adams and Mayes being busts, which they aren't, Macc was only getting fired in the delusional mind of SOJFs. Macc hasn't been amazing but he's been good enough. The last thing you want to do is constantly fire GMs and create a sense of chaos in your organization unless a guy is idzik-level incompetent. His good moves (Williams,. Adams, Mayes, Anderson, Shell, kearse+2nd, asj...) offset some of his bad moves (Fitz second year, Lee Smith,hack...). 

I still think bowles is on the hot seat and could coach his way out of a job. I've seen very few good coaching moves to justify keeping him around. 

Yes you sort of highlighted what I've said around here a bit... So far Mac has been an average-ish GM... He's not changing the world, but he's not John Idzik either. He's don some decent, competent, unspectacular GM work, and he's also had some flops and follies. Those flops are always louder, but he hasn't been as clueless as guys want to think. He missed on draft picks. So do a lot of GMs.

But he's done enough to stick around, if for nothing else than the sense of stability. You can't get firing GMs hoping you stumble upon some miracle-worker who goes 7 for 7 in the draft... Those guys aren't out there. Most GMs are just average. 

[BurnleyJet]

3 hours ago, kelly said:

..bowles & mac will be around for at least two more seasons. Seriously.

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

No they aren't, this sh@t show will not last another year. The Idzik out billboard will be nothing, MetLife will be empty,Woody's ego can't stand public humiliation.

[Larz]

Duh 

You don't tank and then fire everybody 

They need to start wooing the Jr QBs and reminding them about all of the cap space 

[AFJF]

Knew from the headline that the article wasn't worth reading.

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, Green DNA said:

The Cowboys have won 2 playoff games (both wildcard games) since 1996.  The Jets have had more success in the playoffs over the past 20 years, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

** Disclaimer: This does not mean that the Jets don't suck and their owner is not clueless

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, DMan77 said:

Yes you sort of highlighted what I've said around here a bit... So far Mac has been an average-ish GM... He's not changing the world, but he's not John Idzik either. He's don some decent, competent, unspectacular GM work, and he's also had some flops and follies. Those flops are always louder, but he hasn't been as clueless as guys want to think. He missed on draft picks. So do a lot of GMs.

But he's done enough to stick around, if for nothing else than the sense of stability. You can't get firing GMs hoping you stumble upon some miracle-worker who goes 7 for 7 in the draft... Those guys aren't out there. Most GMs are just average. 

He's built the worst defense in the history of football but I guess to make him "average-ish" he must have done some phenomenal things on the offensive side of the ball like pay $20 million to Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown in 2 years.

[SenorGato]

**** there's a shot the triennial burn and turn won't happen? Boooooooo heads must roll 

[Ken Schroy]

I don't think any owner would tell you what he is thinking at this point in the season. This is just BS right now.

[LionelRichie]

Someone please make the argument that Bowles is the right HC to develop Rosen/Darnold.  

I'm not sure it matters what Bowles does, I don't see how he can be the guy entrusted with the franchise QB.  

[Super Bowl before I die]

When is this nightmare of a team going to get it right ?

[Jetsbb]

Jets fans are being complacent thinking there is no reason to go all "Idzik" on this team since they will obviously fire Bowles after his performance these past 2 years. You would think they would want to reset with the chance of getting a franchise QB they would maybe seek a offensive HC who will nurture and give the guy the best chance to succeed. We are overestimating these guys competence. There needs to be online petitions, billboards, flying planes, etc... Everything that was done to Idzik times a thousand.

[rangerous]

22 hours ago, Bugg said:

Let's see how that holds up with 8 home games marked by thousands of empty seats, plus a 1-15 team or worse. Hess was slow to action and loved Rich Kotite like a son, but complete and total failure forces changes. And for all this happytalk, Eric Mangini had a similar guarantee/handshake/promise with said Woody Johnson along with a year left on his contract yet found himself fired off 9 wins.   If I am running the Jets and paying debt service on that POS stadium, this story worries me a whole bunch-

 

http://nypost.com/2017/09/19/meet-3-of-many-jets-fans-staying-away-from-metlife-in-droves/  Brian Costello NY Post, 9/19/2017

When the Jets kick off Sunday afternoon against the Dolphins at MetLife Stadium, Jeff Cohen figures he will be wrapping up a round of golf. Dom Florenza will be heading to a wedding. Rich Pittala will be meeting up with a friend who roots for Miami to watch the game on TV.

The three of them normally would be at MetLife. They are former Jets season-ticket holders, a fraternity that added plenty of members this offseason with many fans saying enough is enough with the team that has not had a home playoff game since January 2003 and won’t have one in the foreseeable future.

The Jets won’t say just how many season-ticket holders they lost this year, but judging anecdotally from email, Twitter replies and conversations with fans, the renewal rate this year plunged to new depths.

It is all part of a bizarre season for Jets fans. Sunday is the first of what figure to be eight strange home games this season at MetLife, where fans are unsure whether they should be rooting for a Jets win or a loss in hopes of landing the No. 1 draft pick.

Like many others who walked away from their seats, any cheering or booing by Cohen, Lorenza and Pittala will be done from a couch or maybe a barstool, far from the swamps of the Meadowlands.

“This is the first year I can ever remember as a longtime Jets fan where there is no hope,” said Cohen, a vice president of sales for a Midtown jewelry manufacturer who has been going to games since the Jets played at Shea Stadium. “It’s a weird feeling. I don’t want them to win.”

All three said the direction of the team in 2017 had very little to do with their decision to give up the seats. Surely, though, if the Jets were in position to contend this year, more fans would be keeping their tickets.

Instead, the blend of the cost, the stadium experience and the product on the field recently seems to have driven many loyal Jets fans away.

Cohen’s family had tickets at Shea. He picked them up after they moved to Giants Stadium, where he had four seats. He dropped down to one after the move to MetLife Stadium, financing a PSL and sitting in a section with some of the same people he sat with at the old stadium.
He did not like MetLife Stadium from the start.

“There was something missing,” Cohen, who lives in Basking Ridge, N.J., said. “It is not the same experience.”

Even in the stadium that more often feels like MetLifeless, Cohen enjoyed going to games, but that enjoyment dimmed first in the John Idzik era and then last year when the team went 5-11.

“I think a big, big problem is the personality of the team under Todd Bowles,” Cohen said. “He’s a painful coach to watch. You don’t get anything from his press conferences. You sit there saying, why am I paying for this?”

Pittala, who lives in West Long Branch, N.J., bought tickets with friends when MetLife opened in 2010. In the early days, he said he could sell a ticket to one game that would cover the cost of his season tickets.

 

“As time went on, that wasn’t happening anymore,” said Pittala, who works in the corporate office of Bed, Bath & Beyond. “The seats were selling for $40 and you’re dropping $220 a ticket. It’s frustrating. I couldn’t justify it anymore.”

Cohen and Florenza both said they are walking away from their PSL, even though they still owe the Jets money until 2024.

“What? Are they going to do start suing their fan base?” Cohen asked. Both said the Jets have not pursued any PSL payment from them.

But Pittala said even though he did not renew his tickets, he will still make his $900 PSL payment in November, perhaps willing to return in a few years.

Pittala said it will be an odd feeling watching on TV on Sunday.

“Absolutely. I’ll get antsy. I’ll feel guilty,” he said.

Florenza, a C.P.A. who lives in Mountainside, N.J., bought his tickets in 1984 when the Jets moved to New Jersey. He bought four PSLs when MetLife opened. Florenza said he just did not feel like it was worth spending the money anymore.

Florenza said he won’t look back at his decision.

“There’s no regrets,” Florenza said. “Thirty-three years is a long time. My first marriage didn’t last 33 years.”

His divorce, and many others, from the Jets was finalized this offseason.

 

 

i don't see where it's happy talk by johnson.  he is stating a reasonable course of action given the current state of the team.  it's too early in the season to see how much progress will be made.  as others have said, the worst thing we've seen is how many resources the defense have taken up and how little there is to show for it. imo the defense continues to underachieve then bowles is toast.  i don't think it will be just the simple matter of launching kacy.

[varjet]

11 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

Someone please make the argument that Bowles is the right HC to develop Rosen/Darnold.  

I'm not sure it matters what Bowles does, I don't see how he can be the guy entrusted with the franchise QB.  

There is alot that happens behind the scenes.  The NFL wants Rosen and Darnold playing in their league, helping the TV ratings, next year.  If their agents call Goodell and say they are staying in school because they don't want to spend 5 years ruining a potential 15 year career in a dumpster fire, that may prompt some change.

Mac can be salvaged with a real boss, not a Johnson.
Bowles, Caldwell and Rodgers are not salvageable, in terms of their scheming, coaching and roster selection contribution.

Morton and Bates I think can be salvaged, but for both of those QBs I am thinking an O'Brien can do better.  Morton and Bates can go to the Texans.

[nicg4360]

If this season continues and finishes with the defence being so inept and the jets for some reason retain Bowles someone has to take the fall and it will be Rodgers no doubt.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[DMan77]

16 hours ago, Philc1 said:

He's built the worst defense in the history of football but I guess to make him "average-ish" he must have done some phenomenal things on the offensive side of the ball like pay $20 million to Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown in 2 years.

How many GMs out there are blowing the lid off the world? Not many. Colts? They're nothing without Luck... 49ers? They collapsed fast. Buffalo? Saints? Bears? Giants? Jags?

Again I'm not saying Mac is a top GM... I'm saying he's been pretty average. I'll even go a bit below average... I'm totally on-board and fine with criticizing him. I'm not here to defend him to the death. I'm not even arguing that I'm correct. We all have our opinions and I'm cool with them... He didn't do a masterful job of turning the Jets immediately into a contender with the roster they had. That didn't fly. Fitz was awful and we all knew it before he signed. He took a chance and missed badly.

But I think stability at GM is important. I think it's worth it to see what he can do now with a straight up rebuild and with a few years of experience under his belt.... I think it's a better idea than firing and hiring someone all over again. 

 

[NoBowles]

This is exactly what any owner should be saying. Worst thing he could do is tell Mac and Bowles if they don't win games they will be gone. I want them both 100% in on the tank. Then if you want to fire them at the end of the year, by all means.

[EM31]

In order for the tank to work, the owner, GM and HC need to be in on the deal which means the GM and HC need to have some assurances beyond this year.  To me this has been obvious for a while.

The very last thing you want to have happen is for the owner and GM to be on the same page and then have the coaching staff screw it up on game day by getting one win too many here or there. (4th and 8 punt anyone?)

We will have Mac and Todd soup for one more year after this one. 

 

[Ben Had]

if he's really out to tank the season, does it matter?

[varjet]

2 hours ago, DMan77 said:

How many GMs out there are blowing the lid off the world? Not many. Colts? They're nothing without Luck... 49ers? They collapsed fast. Buffalo? Saints? Bears? Giants? Jags?

Again I'm not saying Mac is a top GM... I'm saying he's been pretty average. I'll even go a bit below average... I'm totally on-board and fine with criticizing him. I'm not here to defend him to the death. I'm not even arguing that I'm correct. We all have our opinions and I'm cool with them... He didn't do a masterful job of turning the Jets immediately into a contender with the roster they had. That didn't fly. Fitz was awful and we all knew it before he signed. He took a chance and missed badly.

But I think stability at GM is important. I think it's worth it to see what he can do now with a straight up rebuild and with a few years of experience under his belt.... I think it's a better idea than firing and hiring someone all over again. 

 

This is a fantastic point.  But why deal with mediocrity roulette?  The answer is to beef up the front office.  Two heads are more than 2x better than one.  The answer is to bring in more heads, like the Jaguars did.  

2 hours ago, EM31 said:

In order for the tank to work, the owner, GM and HC need to be in on the deal which means the GM and HC need to have some assurances beyond this year.  To me this has been obvious for a while.

The very last thing you want to have happen is for the owner and GM to be on the same page and then have the coaching staff screw it up on game day by getting one win too many here or there. (4th and 8 punt anyone?)

We will have Mac and Todd soup for one more year after this one. 

 

This is probably very true, but it does not explain Kerley, Ealy and others. 

But just because you agree to let Macc and Bowles work another year so they tank does not mean that you let them use that money and those high picks to select players unsupervised again.   And the new QB will need to be coached right.  

We have not heard the last of this-watch Darnold and/or Rosen not come out.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, EM31 said:

In order for the tank to work, the owner, GM and HC need to be in on the deal which means the GM and HC need to have some assurances beyond this year.  To me this has been obvious for a while.

The very last thing you want to have happen is for the owner and GM to be on the same page and then have the coaching staff screw it up on game day by getting one win too many here or there. (4th and 8 punt anyone?)

We will have Mac and Todd soup for one more year after this one. 

 

Cringing typing this, but the post above yours is correct. For the tank to work, the way to play it is tell everyone they're safe so they don't go out and do anything drastic...like trying to win games, or making any midseason trades to help them win games later in the season (a la Idzik 2014). Problem is, who'd trust them to take the job if he said they're both safe to do a tank season, then fired them because they were terrible in a tank season. 

I do think it's a bit much to presume Chris Johnson is playing these 2 in such a manner, capable of mastering the PR of such a turnaround move by rationalizing, "I knew wins would be harder to come by in such a rebuild, and accepted it, but neither Woody nor I imagined we'd be this bad." 

There seems to be a high probability both return. Maccagnan, because Chris Johnson might be the one person on earth even less qualified than Woody to pick a GM, and the truth is Maccagnan likely did get at least tacit permission from Woody to do such a teardown with only stopgap/afterthought FA pickups. Bowles, because everyone knows he was handed a sh*tburger of a roster to eat, independent of his own maddening incompetence that would not improve with a better situation (rather, such incompetence would merely be hidden, or winning a number of games in spite of it, like in 2015). 

[NoBowles]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Cringing typing this, but the post above yours is correct.

Just when I started to think we had a major breakthrough in our relationship.......

[LionelRichie]

As bad as Bowles is, there isn't a coach in the NFL that could win with this turd collection.   The two biggest problems with Bowles is that a) he can't be trusted with a franchise QB, and b ) he is a defensive coach and his defense sucks.  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

It's difficult to get a very good read on how good Bowles is as a coach. A safe guess would be that he's somewhere in the gray area of not being good or bad enough to matter much. It's possible that he's actually good enough to be value added because this roster is just so bad but it's unlikely enough that there's no reason to do anything other than ride it out and fire him on black monday. Maccagnan is an unmitigated disaster and should be fired immediately.

[Sonny Werblin]

Since I see no one who is a definite upgrade who would be available for either spot, I'd rather stand pat. Who knows, after 2018, it may be clear that Bowles should be fired and that Morton would be an excellent head coach. 

I may change this position by the end of the season if really good job candidates emerge, but right now any change would be a lateral move, not a definite upgrade. 

[August]

It makes sense to retain them considering that the Jets came into this season with the intention of tanking. So dumping Bowles and Mac after the season wouldn't make sense. You start the rebuild with them, give them a chance to build back up the program. 

[varjet]

7 minutes ago, August said:

It makes sense to retain them considering that the Jets came into this season with the intention of tanking. So dumping Bowles and Mac after the season wouldn't make sense. You start the rebuild with them, give them a chance to build back up the program. 

The question is whether this is the Braintrust to lead the post-Tank Build.  I have my doubts. 

[Sonny Werblin]

Frankly, ownership should consider next year as year 1 for Mac and Bowles. No excuses. Mac has money to fill holes and a top pick in a QB rich draft. Bowles has had time to develop his team culture, has some players with one to three years experience playing for him, and is no longer green behind the ears. If the team doesn't take a big step forward next season, both should be fired.

BTW, just learned that in 2012 laveon bell tweeted he's a life long jet fan with #bleedgreenandwhite. Good timing for the Jets to have $85 million because he'll want a lot of it.

[joewilly12]

This is a matter of opinion some see it as Macc and Bowles are gone others as Macc and Bowles are here to stay it depends on which side of the fence you sit on.