Aaron Hernandez had severe CTE

[sciond]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Yes, but if they are trying to position to sue the NFL or even UF (deep pockets) for causing the CTE, they are going to have to deal with this tidbit:

"After just arriving at University of Florida where the 17-year-old Hernandez studied sociology and played tight end, he was arrested after a fight. According to Orlando Sentinel sports reporter Mike Bianchi, the young Hernandez was arrested for getting into a fight in front of a “local campus hangout known as The Swamp. Hernandez received a deferred prosecution.”

Sure, he had CTE, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a dirtbag before that.  The problem is, they aren't going to get much money from his Pop Warner league.  And let's not pretend this isn't all about the civil lawsuit to try to get someone to pony up the money that he might have earned if he wasn't a murderous scumbag.  

 

not defending his actions. He was most likely a jerk from day one. My guess is the CTE just made matters worse.

[Butterfield]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Yes, but if they are trying to position to sue the NFL or even UF (deep pockets) for causing the CTE, they are going to have to deal with this tidbit:

"After just arriving at University of Florida where the 17-year-old Hernandez studied sociology and played tight end, he was arrested after a fight. According to Orlando Sentinel sports reporter Mike Bianchi, the young Hernandez was arrested for getting into a fight in front of a “local campus hangout known as The Swamp. Hernandez received a deferred prosecution.”

Sure, he had CTE, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a dirtbag before that.  The problem is, they aren't going to get much money from his Pop Warner league.  And let's not pretend this isn't all about the civil lawsuit to try to get someone to pony up the money that he might have earned if he wasn't a murderous scumbag.  

 

I agree, this is all a money grab.  But, that doesn't mean the science is faulty.  By the time you are done with high school football, the potential exists for CTE.

[Jet_Engine1]

2 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

I agree, this is all a money grab.  But, that doesn't mean the science is faulty.  By the time you are done with high school football, Soccer, Jiu Jitsu, BMX, falling off of Playground equipment, slipping in the bathtub, wrestling your big brother, getting in fights, and otherwise doing the things most males do while growing up, the potential exists for CTE.

Fixed that for you. 

 

As I said much earlier, before the holier than thou horsesh*t and name calling started, maybe "CTE" is a side effect that all people who didnt grow up in a bubble are susceptibile to later in life?

 

As to the comprison between "not all cancer patients die" and "not all those suffering from CTE murder people", are you really sticking to that? Really?

 

Whatever. I feel bad for whoever it is in your life suffering from AE, but your emotional, knee jerk attacks are out of place.

 

And bottom line? Regardless of cause or origin, Hernandez was a ruthless psychopath that the world is better a better place without.

[Spoot-Face]

This thread is going places.

[sciond]

21 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Notice how these guys all resort to name calling and abusive language when you question their faith. 

Not this guy

[Spoot-Face]

2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Fixed that for you. 

 

As I said much earlier, before the holier than thou horsesh*t and name calling started, maybe "CTE" is a side effect that all people who didnt grow up in a bubble are susceptibile to later in life?

 

As to the comprison between "not all cancer patients die" and "not all those suffering from CTE murder people", are you really sticking to that? Really?

 

Whatever. I feel bad for whoever it is in your life suffering from AE, but your emotional, knee jerk attacks are out of place.

 

And bottom line? Regardless of cause or origin, Hernandez was a ruthless psychopath that the world is better a better place without.

If you're slipping in your bathtub often enough to suffer traumatic brain injury, I think you have more problems than CTE.

[sciond]

5 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

As to the comprison between "not all cancer patients die" and "not all those suffering from CTE murder people", are you really sticking to that? Really?

Yes, because once again it is not settled science. So we actually don't know the percentile of people it affects at this point. However what we do know that is that some people with it kill others and some kill themselves. However some people with CTE obviously do neither.

[Jet_Engine1]

8 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

If you're slipping in your bathtub often enough to suffer traumatic brain injury, I think you have more problems than CTE.

You have no idea how many people fall in the bathtub more than once.....lol

 

Anyway....How many hits does it take? Is one really hard hit worse than a lot of smaller ones? What if you were shaken as a baby but didnt exhibit symptoms at the time? What if you were involved in a couple of car accidents prior to turning 18? How about Army Jump School and hitting the ground in a PLF? Do some people have the physical findings of CTE post-mortem but never had any of the symptoms?

 

Have we cut open any Rugby players brains yet? Any racecar drivers? I bet roller derby players and pro bull riders will have a high CTE rate. And on and o

[sciond]

6 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You have no idea how many people fall in the bathtub more than once.....lol

 

Anyway....How many hits does it take? Is one really hard hit worse than a lot of smaller ones? What if you were shaken as a baby but didnt exhibit symptoms at the time? What if you were involved in a couple of car accidents prior to turning 18? How about Army Jump School and hitting the ground in a PLF? Do some people have the physical findings of CTE post-mortem but never had any of the symptoms?

 

Have we cut open any Rugby players brains yet? Any racecar drivers? I bet roller derby players and pro bull riders will have a high CTE rate. And on and o

Who knows I don't let my kids play football but we all train in martial arts including heavy sparring so am I doing the right thing? Who knows..

[RutgersJetFan]

Hey hey hey, let's leave jiu jitsu out of this.

[Spoot-Face]

7 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You have no idea how many people fall in the bathtub more than once.....lol

 

Anyway....How many hits does it take? Is one really hard hit worse than a lot of smaller ones? What if you were shaken as a baby but didnt exhibit symptoms at the time? What if you were involved in a couple of car accidents prior to turning 18? How about Army Jump School and hitting the ground in a PLF? Do some people have the physical findings of CTE post-mortem but never had any of the symptoms?

 

Have we cut open any Rugby players brains yet? Any racecar drivers? I bet roller derby players and pro bull riders will have a high CTE rate. And on and o

IMO, the only relevant comparison you have made is to Rugby. In pretty much all other comparisons you made, the goal is either for it to never happen (falling in a tub/car accident/baby shaking) or for it to not happen much at all (soccer/Jiu Jitsu/BMX). While in football and rugby, there is an explicit goal of slamming your body (and head) into another's... repeatedly... over and over... play after play... game after game. Quite different than the occasional fall or accident that people tend to avoid, but inevitably happens to all of us.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Notice how these guys all resort to name calling and abusive language when you question their faith. 

Or lack of intelligence 

[Bugg]

A sport that is basically an 11 on 11 gang fight every play, along with constant collisions, is not going to benefit a player's long-term health. 

The one thing that has evolved very stupidly is the helmet. Football went from a leather head covering that was minimal enough that wrapping up was more sensible than trying for a big hit leading with a hard plastic padded helmet. It gives the tackler or blocker a false sense of well-being. But not sure they can go back to something that might look more like rugby. And even there, a player last spring was paralyzed during the NCAA tournament. 

And to echo others; have seen a lot of high school and college football with a son in it the last few years. The PEDs, be it HGH or other better chemistry, is rampant(would wager the NBA is worse with a testing protocol that consists of Ned Beatty reprising his role as Dean Martin in "Back To School" and asking very politely if you used PEDS and accepting the answer without any questioning, but I digress).The players and coaches all know it May be these kids cycle off expertly, may be the testing is not what it should be. But today right now a player is more likely to get bagged form smoking a joint than using a PED. And have no doubt having seen roid heads in gyms for a very long time that plays a bigger role than anyone is saying. 

[JohnnyLV]

This thread is actually offensive because it IS a defense of a psychopathic multi murderer and there is no science here. At all. It is simply conjecture made upon selective causation. Just because someone commits acts of violence that has CTE does not in any way mean that the CTE caused it. In any population, you could pick any physical trait or illness and try and extrapolate a correlation. You could just as easily pick cleft chins, and in a selected sample "discover" that " a significant %" of people that stole lunch money from other kids in grammar school had cleft chins, so cleft chins CAUSE people to steal lunch money. It is voodoo science at its worst. and the issue is that the entire correlation based medical study concept is flawed. Statistical correlation to prove causation is a very slippery slope. Just by assuming that the correlation exists predisposes the study to find the correlation you are looking for. A doctor recently "proved' that ESP existed. Completely medically sound. But the significant thing about the study is it showed that many correlated causes of disease and other things are actually very suspect because of the entire methodology used.

You could find a 100 "reasons" for Hernandez being a psycho but there is no science showing it to be true. 

 

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Not to long ago coal miners faced greater long term and daily risks for a lot less money, and most felt the risk was worth providing for their family. I'm not trying to diminish the significance of CTE, but it is now a known risk. And it does seem that a vast number of ex-players are not profoundly effected by it. I mean it seemed rare to find an ex-boxer who was not "punch drunk" (as they said in the day), but there seems to be plenty of ex NFL players commentating and such without showing significant effects from CTE.  I'm not saying I think it is worth the risk, but I can understand why someone else would feel that way.

I am also curious as to any connection between steroids and CTE because I don't recall any stories of ex player CTE type conduct until the players from the late 70s started to retire. I seem to recall more then one ex steeler lineman from that time having a terrible time with what was without doubt CTE, and I'm pretty sure those guys really roided it up in their playing days. 

That player was Steelers Hall of Fame Center Mike Webster, who did use a lot of steroids. By the end he practically was living in a fridge box under a highway overpass.  Sadly in the 1970s there was no testing and nobody had any idea what the long term effects might be, though they had to know it would be bad. Also if you watch any game of college or NFL football today the center is given some very broad interpretation of holding, and defenders do not line up thatclose as they did back then. And that's because the physics of hiking a football and then getting yourself in position to not only block but protect yourself from some 350 pound charging beast like Ngata or Wilfork are practically impossible. 

[batman10023]

9 hours ago, NYJ37/12 said:

Bingo!!! Been saying this for years. What is the connection between steroids and CTE? Also, I'm a bit skeptical of this report since the lawsuit is on the behalf of his daughter. Sounds like a money grab.

 

It's a money grab but the guy did have cte. 

[Bugg]

36 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

This thread is actually offensive because it IS a defense of a psychopathic multi murderer and there is no science here. At all. It is simply conjecture made upon selective causation. Just because someone commits acts of violence that has CTE does not in any way mean that the CTE caused it. In any population, you could pick any physical trait or illness and try and extrapolate a correlation. You could just as easily pick cleft chins, and in a selected sample "discover" that " a significant %" of people that stole lunch money from other kids in grammar school had cleft chins, so cleft chins CAUSE people to steal lunch money. It is voodoo science at its worst. and the issue is that the entire correlation based medical study concept is flawed. Statistical correlation to prove causation is a very slippery slope. Just by assuming that the correlation exists predisposes the study to find the correlation you are looking for. A doctor recently "proved' that ESP existed. Completely medically sound. But the significant thing about the study is it showed that many correlated causes of disease and other things are actually very suspect because of the entire methodology used.

You could find a 100 "reasons" for Hernandez being a psycho but there is no science showing it to be true. 

 

At some point, what ever his mental state or impairment, Hernandez had free will to choose or not choose to be a thug. He knew enough to get into Florida and the NFL, he had to have a passing acquaintance with the difference between right and wrong. We know he shot 2 guys to death in an bar argument over nothing and then killed another guy who had been his friend. 

[batman10023]

9 hours ago, NoBowles said:

I played football from 8 years old to 35 years old. My father played, my brother played. I absolutely will not let my son play football. That statement would have been blasphemy to me 10 years ago. Now its reality. I am pushing him into other sports. They all have their share of risks, I am just not willing to let my kids play football at any level.

How did you play till 35?

[JohnnyLV]

1 minute ago, Bugg said:

At some point, what ever his mental state or impairment, Hernandez had free will to choose or not choose to be a thug. He knew enough to get into FSU and the NFL, he had to have a passing acquaintance with the difference between right and wrong. We know he shot 2 guys to death in an bar argument over nothing and then killed another guy who had been his friend. 

Exactly. Even being a true psychopath does not cause you to be a mass murderer. It may be much more common in the mass murderer population but it does not explain away or excuse the actions that you committed.

[JohnnyLV]

9 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

It's a money grab but the guy did have cte. 

Again so what? It is conceivable that almost ALL NFL players have CTE. Again, no correlation.

[batman10023]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Again so what? It is conceivable that almost ALL NFL players have CTE. Again, no correlation.

Not defending him. Just more worried about where the game is going. 

 

Lots St of people here complain about pussification of fame. Think it's only going to get worse 

[sciond]

10 minutes ago, Bugg said:

At some point, what ever his mental state or impairment, Hernandez had free will to choose or not choose to be a thug. He knew enough to get into FSU and the NFL, he had to have a passing acquaintance with the difference between right and wrong. We know he shot 2 guys to death in an bar argument over nothing and then killed another guy who had been his friend. 

He did not go to FSU BTW

A couple of other things he was convicted of one murder acquitted of the others

You don't know the affects of CTE on his actions, nobody does. However we do know that there is definitely a causation between CTE nd behavior. How much it really affects it we don't know. At the end of the day we are all stating opinions.

However as I stated earlier someone close to me committed suicide who had a traumatic brain injury a few years earlier...I saw the changes and now he is gone

[sciond]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Hey hey hey, let's leave jiu jitsu out of this.

We do TKD and Krav

[Bugg]

13 minutes ago, sciond said:

He did not go to FSU BTW

A couple of other things he was convicted of one murder acquitted of the others

You don't know the affects of CTE on his actions, nobody does. However we do know that there is definitely a causation between CTE nd behavior. How much it really affects it we don't know. At the end of the day we are all stating opinions.

However as I stated earlier someone close to me committed suicide who had a traumatic brain injury a few years earlier...I saw the changes and now he is gone

Corrected-Florida. Acquitted is not the same as "innocent". 

Condolences. 

[sciond]

Just now, Bugg said:

Corrected-Florida. Acquitted is not the same as "innocent". 

It is in the eyes of the court. Regardless of what we think. So I believe he did it but legally he is innocent. I am also willing to bet there are more crimes we are unaware of.

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, sciond said:

It is in the eyes of the court. Regardless of what we think. So I believe he did it but legally he is innocent. I am also willing to bet there are more crimes we are unaware of.

One thing about Hernandez very specifically; not many kids for the northeast get recruited to SEC football. He must have been one hell of a high school player for that to happen. There are some kids from good families or of good character or both that they are going to come out the other side, no problem(little we know about for example Deshaun Watson, seems like a great guy with a  level head). Bu there are others who get indulged and push the limits and get away with things every which way they can. Some small ways, some big. And in  this case, suspect Hernandez was allowed in high school and then in Florida to get away with a lot we have no idea about. And that carried over into his career with the Pats. Who knows; may be if he gets drafted by the Chargers and moves a continent away from his bad influences none of this happens. Or may be he finds more trouble. But if you had to pick one place that added to his issues, going to his old neighborhood did not help him at all. 

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, sciond said:

It is in the eyes of the court. Regardless of what we think. So I believe he did it but legally he is innocent. I am also willing to bet there are more crimes we are unaware of.

He's not innocent in court of law

[sciond]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

He's not innocent in court of law

technically no

 

Acquittal

The legal and formal certification of the innocence of a person who has been charged with a crime.

Acquittals in fact take place when a jury finds a verdict of not guilty. Acquittals in law take place by operation of law such as when a person has been charged as an Accessory to the crime of Robbery and the principal has been acquitted.

West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

acquittal

n. what an accused criminal defendant receives if he/she is found not guilty. It is a verdict (a judgment in a criminal case) of not guilty. (See: acquit)

Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill. All Right reserved.

acquittal

noun absolutio, absolution, acquitment, acquittance, amnesty, clearance, compurgation, discharge, dismissal, exculpation, exoneration, favorable verdict, letting off, liberatio, liberation, pardon, purgation, quittance, release, remission, reprieve, restoration, verdict of not guilty, vindication
Associated concepts: acquittal by a jury
Foreign phrases: Paribus sententiis reus absolvitur.When the opinions are equal, where the court is equally divided, the defendant is acquitted.

 

[Charlie Brown]

9 hours ago, Bugg said:

One thing about Hernandez very specifically; not many kids for the northeast get recruited to SEC football. He must have been one hell of a high school player for that to happen. There are some kids from good families or of good character or both that they are going to come out the other side, no problem(little we know about for example Deshaun Watson, seems like a great guy with a  level head). Bu there are others who get indulged and push the limits and get away with things every which way they can. Some small ways, some big. And in  this case, suspect Hernandez was allowed in high school and then in Florida to get away with a lot we have no idea about. And that carried over into his career with the Pats. Who knows; may be if he gets drafted by the Chargers and moves a continent away from his bad influences none of this happens. Or may be he finds more trouble. But if you had to pick one place that added to his issues, going to his old neighborhood did not help him at all. 

NFL must know this and act accordingly.  

[Charlie Brown]

Also those who are arguing whether or not the acquittal conferred innocence on Hernandez are missing the point.  

Hernandez is innocent under the law because a charge can not confer guilt on an individual; if it could then why have a trial?

An individual who is charged with a crime is presumed innocent under the law throughout the entire proceeding and the state must prove its case as to confer guilt and only the jury can confer guilt.  

Hence a person for example, need not take the stand in their own defense because you need not prove innocence.  

It may not seem like much but it is the world of difference say between the US system of jutice and say that of China for example, where you are assumed guilty and you are obligated, in most cases, to assist In your imprisonment.  

[Butterfield]

12 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Fixed that for you. 

 

As I said much earlier, before the holier than thou horsesh*t and name calling started, maybe "CTE" is a side effect that all people who didnt grow up in a bubble are susceptibile to later in life?

 

As to the comprison between "not all cancer patients die" and "not all those suffering from CTE murder people", are you really sticking to that? Really?

 

Whatever. I feel bad for whoever it is in your life suffering from AE, but your emotional, knee jerk attacks are out of place.

 

And bottom line? Regardless of cause or origin, Hernandez was a ruthless psychopath that the world is better a better place without.

Lol.  Again, you know absolutely nothing about the subject at hand.  You are an obtuse moron who continues to speak about things you dont even understand. 

As for other instanc s causing CTE, well, duh, obviously.  Just like not all cancer is caused by cigarettes.  We still researched the impact they had.  

And again, not a single person in this thread has absolved anyone of anything. Do you not understand that?  Not everything is as black and white as you would like it.  I for one want to continue to understand the role CTE has.  If you don't, why are you wasting your time here?  Go put a football helmet on a run yourself into a cement wall.  What bad could happen?  Moron.

[Butterfield]

10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Again so what? It is conceivable that almost ALL NFL players have CTE. Again, no correlation.

Yeah, we should just stop studying it now, since Johnnysd, said so.  Sorry, I think ill listen to actual neurologists that work on the subject, not some internet dumbass.  If I need help with pumping gas, Ill make sure to reach out to you.

[Butterfield]

10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

This thread is actually offensive because it IS a defense of a psychopathic multi murderer and there is no science here. At all. It is simply conjecture made upon selective causation. Just because someone commits acts of violence that has CTE does not in any way mean that the CTE caused it. In any population, you could pick any physical trait or illness and try and extrapolate a correlation. You could just as easily pick cleft chins, and in a selected sample "discover" that " a significant %" of people that stole lunch money from other kids in grammar school had cleft chins, so cleft chins CAUSE people to steal lunch money. It is voodoo science at its worst. and the issue is that the entire correlation based medical study concept is flawed. Statistical correlation to prove causation is a very slippery slope. Just by assuming that the correlation exists predisposes the study to find the correlation you are looking for. A doctor recently "proved' that ESP existed. Completely medically sound. But the significant thing about the study is it showed that many correlated causes of disease and other things are actually very suspect because of the entire methodology used.

You could find a 100 "reasons" for Hernandez being a psycho but there is no science showing it to be true. 

 

You have obvious reading comprehension issues.  Not a single person has defended him.  And your lack of knowledge regarding scientific study is appalling, seeing as you felt it necessary to comment.

[NoBowles]

11 hours ago, batman10023 said:

How did you play till 35?

semi pro leagues

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Also those who are arguing whether or not the acquittal conferred innocence on Hernandez are missing the point.  

Hernandez is innocent under the law because a charge can not confer guilt on an individual; if it could then why have a trial?

An individual who is charged with a crime is presumed innocent under the law throughout the entire proceeding and the state must prove its case as to confer guilt and only the jury can confer guilt.  

Hence a person for example, need not take the stand in their own defense because you need not prove innocence.  

It may not seem like much but it is the world of difference say between the US system of jutice and say that of China for example, where you are assumed guilty and you are obligated, in most cases, to assist In your imprisonment.