Query; why are NFL ratings/attendance etc declining?

[Fantasy Island]

Sunday ticket being monopolized and expensive by Directv.

Protests by overpaid athletes.

Goodell ruining the draft, extra points, thursday nights, etc.....

New England cheating and winning so much.

Too many commercials not enough action.

 

[jason423]

I think a lot of it stems from the rules changes to favor passing and the changes to practice time in the new CBA. The league has kind of gone from a number of teams with different identities to all trying to basically do the same thing. The problem is there are only a handful of players that can do that same thing and the rest just struggle to do anything. You look at the Giants running their offense with a completely immobile, poor accuracy QB and thats the problem with the league. Eli may just be over the hill but it reminds me of when Herm wanted Vinny to be a WCO QB.  These are guys that have things they do well but forcing them to run an offense that isnt going to use their best strength isnt good. Right now thats almost the whole NFL. 

The game itself also isnt crisp. Since practice is gone in camp and the preseason is treated like a joke because of fear of injuries the NFL stars out each year like the XFL did years and years ago when they had basically no scrimmage before launch. The start of the season makes a big impact and you can tune out of most of the games quickly because its amateur hour. 

[Paradis]

Thanks for sharing everyone--

 

I like the point many you mentioned re: College ball interest/ratings continues to be strong - if not growing... and it's true. It's never been bigger. Yet the NFL continues to struggle with things like attendance, and general public approval. The sports in the sport has been compromised on some level. 

[the Claw]

I think a lot more people are moving away from their home state than in the past. Not offering a service other than a ridiculously expensive directv plan means more people are going to bars, watching Redzone, or streaming from some free site. I know I would pay my local cable company 59.99 to get Jets games in addition to nationally televised games. I hate watching for the Jets on Redzone because it's always a score against us anyway.

Which brings me to my second point. Moving toward a qb driven league has watered down the product severely, favoring the teams with the best qbs. Casual fans are leaving because if their team isn't one of privileged, it's a drag to watch. So they go away until the team lands a qb who can win. And good luck finding one because the chance of developing one under this CBA is extraordinarily difficult. There is no way for these promising younger players to truly develop or improve. The restrictions on practicing and the lack of a developmental league ensures you either catch lightning in a bottle or get struck by it.

Which brings me to my 3rd point. The NCAA is slowly killing its older brother. The high scoring offenses are drawing huge crowds but at the expense of being the developmental league the NFL needs. These schools use offenses that don't succeed at the next level. They make hand over fist while knowingly NOT preparing these guys for their career... something odd coming from a University...

The player pool is shrinking and will continue to shrink as long as parents are afraid their kids will end up with brain damage. The smaller the talent pool, the even fewer chance of developing the position the league values most.

The league has shot itself in the foot numerous times and they're suffering for it.

[jetscrazey]

7 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Upstate NY. The Northeast besides Pennsylvania has never produced NFL talent, nor is it relevant to the future of football. Chappaqau wasn't exactly a NFL hotbed in the 70's.

NJ has produced NFL talent

[Long Island Leprechaun]

We live in interesting times. Personally, I have absolutely no issue with someone exercising their constitutional right of free speech to kneel during the national anthem, for whatever reason they so choose. When I was a kid, the Jehovah Witnesses in my elementary school class did precisely the same for reasons of religious belief. The Supreme Court back in 1943 was pretty emphatic that such action was completely protected, and this was before Congress inserted the words "under God" in 1954 due to anti-communist hysteria. The national anthem was not in any way a part of our traditions until the 20th century; it began as a rather trivial tune celebrating Columbus Day in 1892. The anthem has three legitimate ideas in it: 1) we're a nation under God, at least since 1954; 2) we are a nation that believes in liberty for all; and 3) we are a nation that believes in justice for all.  In a time when that last idea is a subject of legitimate dispute, it would seem a pretty mild gesture for a citizen of our nation to express disillusionment with what they perceive as a failure to live up to that ideal by kneeling. For those who are adamantly convinced that our country is the beacon of justice for all its citizens, such a gesture will be dismissed as foolish or ill-informed. That's perfectly legitimate. For those who might doubt that premise or blatantly dispute it, kneeling would seem far too little a gesture for other reasons entirely. Tying the act of kneeling with disrespect for either the nation or its principles would seem misguided. It is actually a thoughtful act of questioning whether our principles are being upheld. To me, that right to question is at the core of what the founders intended. Those who know their history will have no difficulty finding many examples of far more aggressive expressions by those very founders regarding their expectations of our young republic. What I find troubling in all of this is the focus on respecting flags and anthems, which on its face seems to promote a kind of old-fashioned, boy-scout patriotism, but which, between the seams, smacks of a kind of authoritarian nationalism that demands lock-step obedience and political correctness to a fault. That rubs my Protestant spirit the wrong way, but as Voltaire once supposedly said: "I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." I always believed that our soldiers fought for that right, and all the other rights granted by our great republic, which our flag and  now anthem is meant to symbolize. In the end, a symbol is only as good as the values it reflects. Some of our greatest citizens have at times challenged the failure of our nation to sustain those values and helped us become better for it. A great nation pays attention to all its voices, not just the few, not just the enfranchised. In this matter, as in so many others, FDR was right: we have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

I know this is one view, and I am not intending to start a debate. Consider it food for thought or a twinkie empty of nutrients. I'm ready for my time-out.

 

 

[Anthony Jet]

17 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

We live in interesting times. Personally, I have absolutely no issue with someone exercising their constitutional right of free speech to kneel during the national anthem, for whatever reason they so choose. When I was a kid, the Jehovah Witnesses in my elementary school class did precisely the same for reasons of religious belief. The Supreme Court back in 1943 was pretty emphatic that such action was completely protected, and this was before Congress inserted the words "under God" in 1954 due to anti-communist hysteria. The national anthem was not in any way a part of our traditions until the 20th century; it began as a rather trivial tune celebrating Columbus Day in 1892. The anthem has three legitimate ideas in it: 1) we're a nation under God, at least since 1954; 2) we are a nation that believes in liberty for all; and 3) we are a nation that believes in justice for all.  In a time when that last idea is a subject of legitimate dispute, it would seem a pretty mild gesture for a citizen of our nation to express disillusionment with what they perceive as a failure to live up to that ideal by kneeling. For those who are adamantly convinced that our country is the beacon of justice for all its citizens, such a gesture will be dismissed as foolish or ill-informed. That's perfectly legitimate. For those who might doubt that premise or blatantly dispute it, kneeling would seem far too little a gesture for other reasons entirely. Tying the act of kneeling with disrespect for either the nation or its principles would seem misguided. It is actually a thoughtful act of questioning whether our principles are being upheld. To me, that right to question is at the core of what the founders intended. Those who know their history will have no difficulty finding many examples of far more aggressive expressions by those very founders regarding their expectations of our young republic. What I find troubling in all of this is the focus on respecting flags and anthems, which on its face seems to promote a kind of old-fashioned, boy-scout patriotism, but which, between the seams, smacks of a kind of authoritarian nationalism that demands lock-step obedience and political correctness to a fault. That rubs my Protestant spirit the wrong way, but as Voltaire once supposedly said: "I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." I always believed that our soldiers fought for that right, and all the other rights granted by our great republic, which our flag and  now anthem is meant to symbolize. In the end, a symbol is only as good as the values it reflects. Some of our greatest citizens have at times challenged the failure of our nation to sustain those values and helped us become better for it. A great nation pays attention to all its voices, not just the few, not just the enfranchised. In this matter, as in so many others, FDR was right: we have nothing to fear, but fear itself.

I know this is one view, and I am not intending to start a debate. Consider it food for thought or a twinkie empty of nutrients. I'm ready for my time-out.

 

 

We stand on opposite sides of this debate but that was the best support I've read for the opposition. Still disagree but a nice read. 

[TuscanyTile2]

11 hours ago, Ken Shroy said:

For me the biggest reason is too many national night games. I would watch every game that was televised years ago. But look at some of these matchups on Thursday nights for example. Also, too many below average teams. They have diluted the product in my opinion.

Agreed.  Expansion was a disaster.  The talent is way too watered down.

[rex-n-effect]

First let's not blow this out of proportions. The NFL ratings and attendance is slightly down and slightly down from historic highs. This is less a case that the sky is falling but that no business can soar vertically forever. Public support is fickle. 

For nearly every point made by earlier posts you can find an obvious counterpoint why that is not an issue. Somebody said people don't want to watch 3.5 hour sporting events but then you have others pointing out the MLB and college football were more popular last year so obviously, people still want to watch sports. One says fantasy football is down, another says people are still tracking the sport but doing it through fantasy apps. Somebody says people don't want to watch a sport where a small number of teams always win or where offensive scoring makes it impossible to win without a successful QB but college football is up where the exact same things are true. 

[nycdan]

15 hours ago, sourceworx said:

You're right. They have been saying it for a long time. But it is happening. It isn't huge yet, but the sport has been steadily growing in popularity. And as another poster said, more and more kids are playing soccer from a young age, so the fan base will continue to grow. 

So here's a little trivia to break up the bleakness of this thread.  According to some statistics, volleyball has surpassed basketball as the most popular girls sport for high school students in the U.S. this year (in terms of participating athletes).  If you don't have a kid playing, you have probably never seen a match, but I highly recommend it.  Oddly enough, I suspect the popularity of beach volleyball in the last two Olympics has done more to raise awareness of the sport than the actual sport itself.  But having said that, I think the success of the US Women's soccer team has also helped soccer overall in the U.S.  I agree that it finally seems to be sticking and more and more kids are year-round soccer players than ever before.  

But if there is a sport that will threaten the dominance of high school football, I would look to lacrosse because more and more high school kids are feeling pressured to focus on one sport year round and lacrosse is crazy popular right now.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

Today may be the day the nfl can never come back from 

[Butterfield]

30 minutes ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

Today may be the day the nfl can never come back from 

Is it really that bad of a thing?  Personally, Id rather it be a niche sport again.  No need to cater to the masses.

[HawkeyeJet]

Well if the protests play a big part in it(they don't, they play a very small part if one at all), the league is going to fold after this week.

[ScarletKnight89]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed.  Expansion was a disaster.  The talent is way too watered down.

The problem with a lot of those Thursday games also is that the play is generally so bad because the teams are on short rest.

[NoBowles]

Here you go:

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20801902/pittsburgh-steelers-remain-locker-room-national-anthem

 

I am done with the NFL until this BS stops. Totally done, won't even watch the Jets. I won't give them my view anymore.

[bostonmajet]

Greed on both sides; it isn't a game anymore, it is a business...

1. Too many games slots; when there was just 2 slots on Sunday and one on Monday, it was easier to get a good game; also, stupid NFL rules like a home game on TV counts as two games; DVR's remove the need to be their live - you can go out with family and get glimpses of game - watcher not as invested..

2. HD home theaters coupled with PSLs, high ticket prices, parking makes it expensive to go to the games; full attendance by real fans makes the game more fun; going to a game or two during the season makes watching all season more enjoyable; the stadiums aren't safe anymore - I attribute this to the price of tickets; 15 years ago, 70% of the fans were true fans; a good chunk of them were cops and fireman; if some knucklehead got out of line, half the stadium would jump on them - now the 1% run the show. $7 hot dogs and $10 beers just add to the problem.

3. Too few practices with hitting; a bad team really can't get better; lack of fundimentals makes the game hard to watch.

4. Rule changes were put in place to make the game more exciting (for a new generation of fans who just want to see scoring); the newer fans are moving on while the die-hard fans feel left behind; I used to enjoy watching a balanced game between two quality teams with strong offense and defense - that is mostly gone

5. Lack of competition; same teams being good for every; the perception of cheating and 'rigged' games move the game to WWE style 'entertainment' not football

6. Players getting suspended right and left for non-football issues, but coaches/owners that cheat get away with it; A commissioner hated by fans and players makes this worse.

7. Fantasy football, while keeping people engaged, has moved us from watching games and rooting for teams, to jumping around, watching feeds, and rooting for players. Yes, it brought more interest in TV shows, web sites, and NFL red zone, but not in the game; personal stats and scoring are more important the quality teams battling for the win.

.... in short - games are boring for both old school and newer fans alike; the game has become more about the hype, commercials, fantasy tracking then the game itself.

[RutgersJetFan]

12 hours ago, jason423 said:

I think a lot of it stems from the rules changes to favor passing and the changes to practice time in the new CBA. The league has kind of gone from a number of teams with different identities to all trying to basically do the same thing. The problem is there are only a handful of players that can do that same thing and the rest just struggle to do anything. You look at the Giants running their offense with a completely immobile, poor accuracy QB and thats the problem with the league. Eli may just be over the hill but it reminds me of when Herm wanted Vinny to be a WCO QB.  These are guys that have things they do well but forcing them to run an offense that isnt going to use their best strength isnt good. Right now thats almost the whole NFL. 

The game itself also isnt crisp. Since practice is gone in camp and the preseason is treated like a joke because of fear of injuries the NFL stars out each year like the XFL did years and years ago when they had basically no scrimmage before launch. The start of the season makes a big impact and you can tune out of most of the games quickly because its amateur hour. 

Yeah this. People try to complicate the variables but I think it's as simple as the product sucks now. Rule change after rule change has made it impossible to build a sustainable way to win excepting one way; building around a position that is extraordinarily hard to find and which requires an extraordinary amount of luck. It's boring. Really, really boring.

[Apache 51]

19 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Millennials

You are right that's a big part of it, other choices in sport, older people growing tired of it younger not replacing 45-75 year olds plus it's expensive when you live at home.

 

[Apache 51]

1 hour ago, JOJOTOWNSELL said:

Today may be the day the nfl can never come back from 

It's a 12 billion dollar industry owned by 31 billionaires.

[Irish Jet]

The protests have nothing to do with it. If anything they draw attention whether you agree with them or not.

The sport just simply feels like a hollow version of what it was 10 years ago.

[Butterfield]

9 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Im done, I won't support this league any longer.

Do you really think anyone cares?

[Irish Jet]

16 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Unless a premier team comes to the US it will never happen.

Will never happen.

FIFA, the video game has been a huge part of the surge in popularity. It's apparently huge in the US. For the sport to take off I think the MLS will need to develop. There is potential there but I think it needs an overhaul. Lower leagues and relegation should be introduced, for one.

[GKnight83]

On 9/23/2017 at 12:22 PM, Kleckineau said:

Some fans tend to forget the Raiders were the LA Raiders for something like 15 years. They fielded some excellent teams but still didnt draw well.

How they expect to support both the Rams and Chargers is beyond me.

LA is not a sports town. Lakers are somewhat of an exception but I think it is more of a thing where poseurs and wannabes can share space with A listers

LA is not a sports town - I guess that is why the Dodgers draw 3,000,000+fans per year and are usually #1 in MLB attendance.

[NoBowles]

15 minutes ago, Butterfield said:

Do you really think anyone cares?

Shrugs, prolly not. But when enough people get sick of this nonsense, people will start caring. I guarantee you this stuff starts hurting the ratings.

[GKnight83]

1 hour ago, GKnight83 said:

LA is not a sports town - I guess that is why the Dodgers draw 3,000,000+fans per year and are usually #1 in MLB attendance.

2017 Attendance		Home				Road			Overall
RK	TEAM	GMS	TOTAL	AVG	PCT	GMS	AVG	PCT	GMS	AVG	PCT
1	LA Dodgers	77	3,574,958	46,428	0.0	78	33,211	0.0	155	39,777	0.0
2	St. Louis	74	3,146,465	42,519	0.0	80	31,359	0.0	154	36,722	0.0
3	San Francisco	78	3,184,548	40,827	0.0	77	31,485	0.0	155	36,186	0.0
4	NY Yankees	72	2,900,407	40,283	0.0	80	32,166	0.0	152	36,011	0.0
5	Chicago Cubs	78	3,080,840	39,497	0.0	76	33,940	0.0	154	36,755	0.0
6	Toronto	80	3,156,492	39,456	0.0	75	29,438	0.0	155	34,609	0.0
7	LA Angels	78	2,911,462	37,326	0.0	76	28,159	0.0	154	32,802	0.0
8	Colorado	75	2,741,615	36,554	0.0	80	30,603	0.0	155	33,483	0.0
9	Boston	74	2,674,210	36,137	0.0	80	31,638	0.0	154	33,800	0.0
10	Milwaukee	77	2,421,256	31,444	0.0	78	30,014	0.0	155	30,725	0.0

[Jet9]

Might have already been mentioned, TL;DR. For me it's that the sport is sh*t, they made it all about QBs even though there's about 12 that are even worth a damn. Defense is illegal. And I really don't need any of these millionaire's social justice stances and policies shoved in my face. I watch sports to escape. Thank God for hockey.

[RutgersJetFan]

On 9/23/2017 at 12:22 PM, Kleckineau said:

Some fans tend to forget the Raiders were the LA Raiders for something like 15 years. They fielded some excellent teams but still didnt draw well.

How they expect to support both the Rams and Chargers is beyond me.

LA is not a sports town. Lakers are somewhat of an exception but I think it is more of a thing where poseurs and wannabes can share space with A listers

LA is a preposterously huge sports town. Just not a NFL town. Big difference. SoCal is one of the biggest recruiting hotbeds in the country. Dodgers and Lakers are crazy popular. Fight game is also huge out here, boxing and jiu jitsu especially. The list goes on and on. Legit one of the most active places I have ever seen.

[RutgersJetFan]

22 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Will never happen.

FIFA, the video game has been a huge part of the surge in popularity. It's apparently huge in the US. For the sport to take off I think the MLS will need to develop. There is potential there but I think it needs an overhaul. Lower leagues and relegation should be introduced, for one.

MLS is a crazy good time and it has become a really entertaining league. IMO the problem will always be that the best in the world don't play in it and that matters for Americans.

[jetrider]

4. Live games aren't worth the expense and hassle

3. Flat screen technology made home viewing better than ever

2. Too many commercials made home viewing worse than ever

1. The internet addiction. People and their devices are permanently inseparable

[Kleckineau]

52 minutes ago, GKnight83 said:

LA is not a sports town - I guess that is why the Dodgers draw 3,000,000+fans per year and are usually #1 in MLB attendance.

Granted they sell a lot of tickets to people who show up late and leave early. 

Numbers dont tell the whole story. These LA LA land poseurs are not hard core sports fans.

 

 

[CTM]

Demographics, millenials less interested in sports (partially because they've grown up with so many content options) so they aren't replacing the boomers. Gen X has kids and more important things(never as attached, also more options growing up). Add in the political crap now and it will decline rapidly 

[jetrider]

!

[Irish Jet]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

MLS is a crazy good time and it has become a really entertaining league. IMO the problem will always be that the best in the world don't play in it and that matters for Americans.

Agreed. I'd actually rather watch it than some leagues with better players. 

If the sport continues to grow then I think in time the quality will come. The US itself has insane potential to produce players, eventually you wont need to rely on European imports.

[FlagmanL11]

Add players acting like peeing dogs to the list 

[Matt39]

I gotta say the media treating the players kneeling like the Berlin Wall coming down is a bit over dramatic .