Query; why are NFL ratings/attendance etc declining?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

The new CBA does not allow enough practice and has turned the first four games into preseason, CTE, kids are playing soccer, NFL greed abandoning cities that do not subsidize stadiums with taxpayer dollars, NCAA is better entertainment, etc...

plus all of the other good point made in this thread - this will make a great Harvard Business study one day

 

 

[rex-n-effect]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I gotta say the media treating the players kneeling like the Berlin Wall coming down is a bit over dramatic .

Not just the media. Look at the triggered snowflakes in this thread.

[ThisYearsModel]

Several reasons, IMO:

• Used to be that the average Joe could afford season tix.  Only 8-10 games, maybe $1000 or so.  Greed killed that with absurd prices.  The blue collar crowd priced out and the game day experience now sucks.
• Games on too many nights and the over-saturation many have mentioned
• In person game experience ruined by commercial after commercial-TV timeout after TV timeout.
• Constant coverage on sports cable to the point of madness
• Rules changes making the game a lot more like a video game than football
• Poor management resulting in the No Fun League
• Most recently, allowing politics to dominate more than the actual athletic contest
• Debilitating effect of the game on players while the NFL tries to deny this

The game now is big due to gambling and fantasy stuff.  Half-empty cadillac-like stadiums are the result.   

[win4ever]

On 9/23/2017 at 6:57 PM, flgreen said:

Because of "heading"  soccer has a dramatic amount of concussions

It has a fair amount, but it's not constant like football, especially in the trenches.  I think there is a fair amount of risk with any sports, although ones like football/boxing stand out.   

[nyjunc]

There are many reasons(in no particular order)

-war on football(meaning about concussions and player safety).  football has received nothing but negative attention in recent years and as this Country is slowly turning into Europe we are seeing rise in boring sports like soccer.

-politics- no need to explain

-fantasy football.  fans want to watch red zone or sunday ticket to follow their players.

-new stadiums not built for real fans and overpriced.

-too many commercial breaks on TV

-oversaturation especially w/ all the shows leading up to games and having the Thursday Night slate added.

-TNF- mostly bad games

 -less practice time, less hitting in practice, less play in preseason which all leads to sloppy play early in the season.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

For various reasons too many players are simply unlikeable.

When you can't stand the players on the field it's not very fun watching a game.

[RevisIsland610]

Many people are just fed up with the NFL and have better things to do. The greed, commercials, overpriced tickets, lousy product on the field with a flag on every other play, political bullsh*t, turn a lot of people off, myself included. I think the NFL will continue to see a decline in popularity. 

[sourceworx]

19 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

MLS is a crazy good time and it has become a really entertaining league. IMO the problem will always be that the best in the world don't play in it and that matters for Americans.

My wife's best friend is a travel nurse, who recently did a stint in Seattle. She said their MLS team is very popular over there.

The league (and the sport's popularity) is growing. But I think people are dismissing it because the growth isn't happening at an exponential rate. It's coming along gradually. In a generation's time, soccer is going to be big in this country. 

[flgreen]

5 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Many people are just fed up with the NFL and have better things to do. The greed, commercials, overpriced tickets, lousy product on the field with a flag on every other play, political bullsh*t, turn a lot of people off, myself included. I think the NFL will continue to see a decline in popularity. 

Agree

IMO NFL is very close to it's peak in popularity for a # of reasons.  With the TV ratings falling, probably the next TV contracts from the networks will be reduced.  TV is the cash cow for the NFL not in stadium attendance.

From a business standpoint if I were an owner like Woody, and purchased the team for 650 M, and could now sell it for say 1.5 B  I would get out while the market is still high.  IMO the NFL is going to continue to decline.  Just speaking from my own stand point, out side the Jets, since all this political non-sense started I actually haven't watched any other NFL.  Not so long ago I watched every game that was televised.

Yes I'm only speaking for myself, but I think a lot of other fans feel the same way.  I just don't have the passion for the game in general I used to have.  JMO 

[rillo]

1. Games are super long with too many commercials

2. Too many calls, refs want to be part of the game

3. Same darling teams get all the breaks

4. Same teams winning every year.

[joewilly12]

The Jets have overpriced the product on the field I think it is solely responsible for the lack of attendance. 

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Agree

IMO NFL is very close to it's peak in popularity for a # of reasons.  With the TV ratings falling, probably the next TV contracts from the networks will be reduced.  TV is the cash cow for the NFL not in stadium attendance.

From a business standpoint if I were an owner like Woody, and purchased the team for 650 M, and could now sell it for say 1.5 B  I would get out while the market is still high.  IMO the NFL is going to continue to decline.  Just speaking from my own stand point, out side the Jets, since all this political non-sense started I actually haven't watched any other NFL.  Not so long ago I watched every game that was televised.

Yes I'm only speaking for myself, but I think a lot of other fans feel the same way.  I just don't have the passion for the game in general I used to have.  JMO 

Woody could get 5 Billion if he sold.  Also it would be a bad business decision as he will make much more then 5 Billion in profits from now until he passes.

[RevisIsland610]

3 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Agree

IMO NFL is very close to it's peak in popularity for a # of reasons.  With the TV ratings falling, probably the next TV contracts from the networks will be reduced.  TV is the cash cow for the NFL not in stadium attendance.

From a business standpoint if I were an owner like Woody, and purchased the team for 650 M, and could now sell it for say 1.5 B  I would get out while the market is still high.  IMO the NFL is going to continue to decline.  Just speaking from my own stand point, out side the Jets, since all this political non-sense started I actually haven't watched any other NFL.  Not so long ago I watched every game that was televised.

Yes I'm only speaking for myself, but I think a lot of other fans feel the same way.  I just don't have the passion for the game in general I used to have.  JMO 

I'm with you 100%. A few years ago I used to look forward to watching the games on Sunday but not anymore. It's not just me, alot of people I know just aren't that tuned in anymore. If I wanted to see a political debate I can turn on CNN. There is no question ratings and popularity will continue to decline. 

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

The Jets have overpriced the product on the field I think it is solely responsible for the lack of attendance. 

This is probably true, but it's not the PSL it's the price of the game day tickets in prime locations, and terrible views from the affordable locations.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

This is probably true, but it's not the PSL it's the price of the game day tickets in prime locations, and terrible views from the affordable locations.

I sat in MEZZ yesterday TD Club area mostly everyone I talked to was comped and few owned the PSL's to the seats as was the case in the seats I had corporate owned. 

Diehard Jets fans aren't in the seats, whoever will take them is. 

[Lupz27]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I sat in MEZZ yesterday TD Club area mostly everyone I talked to was comped and few owned the PSL's to the seats as was the case in the seats I had corporate owned. 

Diehard Jets fans aren't in the seats, whoever will take them is. 

That's where I sit Section 237, I'm die hard bro.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

That's where I sit Section 237, I'm die hard bro.

I was in 216 I wish I could afford those seats I'm a diehard and I would be there every game. 

Wife told me after the game if you want them make it work. (yes she's a keeper) 

[MDL_JET]

16 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Agree

IMO NFL is very close to it's peak in popularity for a # of reasons.  With the TV ratings falling, probably the next TV contracts from the networks will be reduced.  TV is the cash cow for the NFL not in stadium attendance.

From a business standpoint if I were an owner like Woody, and purchased the team for 650 M, and could now sell it for say 1.5 B  I would get out while the market is still high.  IMO the NFL is going to continue to decline.  Just speaking from my own stand point, out side the Jets, since all this political non-sense started I actually haven't watched any other NFL.  Not so long ago I watched every game that was televised.

Yes I'm only speaking for myself, but I think a lot of other fans feel the same way.  I just don't have the passion for the game in general I used to have.  JMO 

How much does that stem from the Jets just sucking really bad for the past few years with no hope of getting better anytime soon? Because that's how it works for me often enough. In the first two years with Sanchez and Rex, I'd be glued to the TV watching them and every game to see how it effects us because I knew we had a chance at something. But since they've sucked...what's the point? To watch them be down 21-3 by the half? When I could be doing more productive things with my day off. Fantasy football is the only thing that keeps me engaged in all the other games. 

[flgreen]

4 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

How much does that stem from the Jets just sucking really bad for the past few years with no hope of getting better anytime soon? Because that's how it works for me often enough. In the first two years with Sanchez and Rex, I'd be glued to the TV watching them and every game to see how it effects us because I knew we had a chance at something. But since they've sucked...what's the point? To watch them be down 21-3 by the half? When I could be doing more productive things with my day off. Fantasy football is the only thing that keeps me engaged in all the other games. 

Everyone is different how they approach the NFL.  What your saying is true, there are a lot of fans who only get very vested when a particular team is good.

It's just not the Jets ratings that are down, it's the entire NFL.  I was a fan during the Kotite era, and was very involved with following the team, and the NFL in general, I just do't have that "OMG it's Monday night, don't bother me I'm watching football tonight" passion anymore.  Lot of reasons for that.  As I said I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also encountering a lot of people who seemed to be passionate Steelers fans, Fish fans, Giants fans etc.  A lot of people I know have gone  from passionate fans to "I can take it or leave it Fans"

Not a good trend for the NFL

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Everyone is different how they approach the NFL.  What your saying is true, there are a lot of fans who only get very vested when a particular team is good.

It's just not the Jets ratings that are down, it's the entire NFL.  I was a fan during the Kotite era, and was very involved with following the team, and the NFL in general, I just do't have that "OMG it's Monday night, don't bother me I'm watching football tonight" passion anymore.  Lot of reasons for that.  As I said I'm speaking for myself, but I'm also encountering a lot of people who seemed to be passionate Steelers fans, Fish fans, Giants fans etc.  A lot of people I know have gone  from passionate fans to "I can take it or leave it Fans"

Not a good trend for the NFL

I think this is where I am right now.  Sundays used to be blocked out for me - no other plans and my wife, kids, friends understood I'm watching the NFL all day  Sunday.   At this point if I have nothing going on I'll watch but if I have just about anything else to do, I'll do it and not have a second thought about the NFL.  I'll check the scores when I'm done.

[Lupz27]

30 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I was in 216 I wish I could afford those seats I'm a diehard and I would be there every game. 

Wife told me after the game if you want them make it work. (yes she's a keeper) 

You had to be roasting!

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

You had to be roasting!

It was hottttttttt I'm ok with it I work outside we drank at least 5 waters each at $5 a shot hottest game I ever attended and I've been to many. 

[Lupz27]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

It was hottttttttt I'm ok with it I work outside we drank at least 5 waters each at $5 a shot hottest game I ever attended and I've been to many. 

Yeah if you ever make it work like your wife says make sure to come over to the visiting side, the sun was off the 1st Row around 2 PM, and after that the heat was a non issue.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

Yeah if you ever make it work like your wife says make sure to come over to the visiting side, the sun was off the 1st Row around 2 PM, and after that the heat was a non issue.

I saw that my son pointed that out but in colder months id rather be in the sun.  Is the TD club the same on that side?  That was really impressive. 

[Lupz27]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

I saw that my son pointed that out but in colder months id rather be in the sun.  Is the TD club the same on that side?  That was really impressive. 

They are identical I believe.

[flgreen]

23 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I think this is where I am right now.  Sundays used to be blocked out for me - no other plans and my wife, kids, friends understood I'm watching the NFL all day  Sunday.   At this point if I have nothing going on I'll watch but if I have just about anything else to do, I'll do it and not have a second thought about the NFL.  I'll check the scores when I'm done.

Yep

This is terrible, but I have an 8 YO grandson, my daughter always has his birthday party on a Sunday in Sept. Football is forbidden.  LOL

Shamefully yesterday was the first birthday party I've been to.  

[SAR I]

10 hours ago, ThisYearsModel said:

Several reasons, IMO:

• Used to be that the average Joe could afford season tix.  Only 8-10 games, maybe $1000 or so.  Greed killed that with absurd prices.  The blue collar crowd priced out and the game day experience now sucks.

Your other reasons are valid, but not this one.

Any 20 year old kid can go on his phone, pay $25, and attend any Jets game he wants.  When I was 20, there was no internet, there were no available tickets, to go to a decent game I'd have to pay a broker 50% over face or comb the parking lots for a shady criminal scalping tickets from your so-called "blue collar crowd" who were making huge bank on the backs of those on the waitlist.

Tickets have NEVER been more accessible or more affordable to fans of all ages, and you can thank the PSL owners like me for making that possible.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

The NFL is the second coming of the Ringling Brothers and Barnum Bailey circus I just saw a clip of the NE sidelines on Sunday #55 his hair dyed blonde in corn rows I thought we were playing football not taking part in fashion show.  COME ON MAN 

NFL and Roger Goodell better fix ALL thats wrong sooner than later. 

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Your other reasons are valid, but not this one.

Any 20 year old kid can go on his phone, pay $25, and attend any Jets game he wants.  When I was 20, there was no internet, there were no available tickets, to go to a decent game I'd have to pay a broker 50% over face or comb the parking lots for a shady criminal scalping tickets from your so-called "blue collar crowd" who were making huge bank on the backs of those on the waitlist.

Tickets have NEVER been more accessible or more affordable to fans of all ages, and you can thank the PSL owners like me for making that possible.

SAR I

SAR I with all due respect and I will commend you for your opinions on seating view after sitting in the MEZZ yesterday but the only seats that are affordable in that stadium are the UP and the view sucks. 

As far the parking lot issues we parked in GREEN lot and after the game theres still beer bottles and trash all over the lot. 

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

SAR I with all due respect and I will commend you for your opinions on seating view after sitting in the MEZZ yesterday but the only seats that are affordable in that stadium are the UP and the view sucks. 

As far the parking lot issues we parked in GREEN lot and after the game theres still beer bottles and trash all over the lot. 

Its your definition of "affordable" that needs adjusting.  Yes, to be a PSL owner and 30 year season ticket holder you need to have a lot of coin, there is no denying that.

But, if one wants to attend every home game each year in a slightly different location each game, one can save 30% to 75% off of the gameday ticket price and pay $0 towards a PSL by simply becoming a Stubhub surfer.  Good Lord how I wish such a thing existed in the 80s and 90s when I was in my 20s and 30s and wanted to go to every Jets game and spent all those afternoons taking the Port Authority bus of shame home at kickoff because I struck out in getting seats I could afford.

Thank you for the kind words about Mezzanine seating, I'm quite pleased with my location.  As you discovered sweating yesterday, being on the shady side of the stadium has a bigger benefit in September than being in the sunny side of the stadium does in December.  As for the Green lot, it's bad now because the team is bad and prices are cheap.  Back when we were good, the Green people showed up instead of selling their parking passes.  It'll pass.  We'll be good again.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Thank you for the kind words about Mezzanine seating, I'm quite pleased with my location.  As you discovered sweating yesterday, being on the shady side of the stadium has a bigger benefit in September than being in the sunny side of the stadium does in December.  As for the Green lot, it's bad now because the team is bad and prices are cheap.  Back when we were good, the Green people showed up instead of selling their parking passes.  It'll pass.  We'll be good again.

Your welcome we have always agreed to disagree on many subjects here over time. 

I really like the MEZZ and the TD club it has endless possibilities, and the finer things in life do come with a price. 

 

[bostonmajet]

33 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Your other reasons are valid, but not this one.

Any 20 year old kid can go on his phone, pay $25, and attend any Jets game he wants.  When I was 20, there was no internet, there were no available tickets, to go to a decent game I'd have to pay a broker 50% over face or comb the parking lots for a shady criminal scalping tickets from your so-called "blue collar crowd" who were making huge bank on the backs of those on the waitlist.

Tickets have NEVER been more accessible or more affordable to fans of all ages, and you can thank the PSL owners like me for making that possible.

SAR I

I have to say there is some truth to what you say, but there are some downsides that I don't think you are considering.

1. Tickets are more available now; this is especially true for visiting fans who hold that particular game at a higher value then a typical Jets fan that can pick from the other 7.

2. One of the best parts about season ticket holders is that they always sit together; there is a sense of camaraderie that is lost when you hop around. It may not be a big deal, but it does take a away something from the game day experience.

3. The lack of consistent quality 'blue collar' fans provided a community and safe zone for the casual or family fan. Now the jack@$$, who isn't likely bought this more available ticket isn't as concerned with the norms of the section (as there aren't any) and without the thought of loosing his season tickets (as he likely doesn't have any) is more likely to act up. Since I tend to go to games as a visitor, I can tell you that the experience and safety that used to be associated with the stadium is gone. Not only do I worry about going to other stadiums wearing a Jets jersey, I wouldn't even think of bringing my daughter (who would wear a Pats jersey - I know - sad) to a game. Too much violence, and swearing. I used to go the games every year - often sitting around cops, construction guys, etc. - nobody got too far out of hand - the crowd set the stage.

4. Since tickets are more available, the casual fan is more likely to get them; I can't tell you how annoying it is to sit next to a fan that is screaming about a bad call, etc and that clearly doesn't know the rules of football. Go to a game a Gillette, they are so used to getting their way, anytime something happens they are either screaming for a flag or complaining about getting one. 10 years ago, the fans knew the game inside and out. The hated outside fans, but respected the game, another fans knowledge, and while they would give you 'crap'; you were always safe and they were even friendly....

[JohnnyLV]

I have been thinking about this and the pursuit of TV ratings is what I think is causing the downturn in ratings. The way the NFL is presented on TV it makes it seem like there are only a few teams important in the NFL: Cowboys, Giants, Patriots, Packers, Steelers. Indy with Manning. I mean one of those 5 teams is in almost every single Sunday or Monday game. Which marginalizes the fan base of all the other teams. Watching the games it is also obvious they get more calls. Example being the "catch" to win the game yesterday for NE. Any other team other than these 5 and that is incomplete.

Then when you add in that the most successful team in the NFL is thought to cheat by anyone outside of NE, and the horrible way Goodell handles many things especially the seeming arbitrary nature of player punishment and it all create this air of elitism, favoritism and inbalance in the NFL.

If your team never gets any prestige and the deck is completely stacked against them to begin with, how can you be successful long term?

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

2 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I have to say there is some truth to what you say, but there are some downsides that I don't think you are considering.

1. Tickets are more available now; this is especially true for visiting fans who hold that particular game at a higher value then a typical Jets fan that can pick from the other 7.

2. One of the best parts about season ticket holders is that they always sit together; there is a sense of camaraderie that is lost when you hop around. It may not be a big deal, but it does take a away something from the game day experience.

3. The lack of consistent quality 'blue collar' fans provided a community and safe zone for the casual or family fan. Now the jack@$$, who isn't likely bought this more available ticket isn't as concerned with the norms of the section (as there aren't any) and without the thought of loosing his season tickets (as he likely doesn't have any) is more likely to act up. Since I tend to go to games as a visitor, I can tell you that the experience and safety that used to be associated with the stadium is gone. Not only do I worry about going to other stadiums wearing a Jets jersey, I wouldn't even think of bringing my daughter (who would wear a Pats jersey - I know - sad) to a game. Too much violence, and swearing. I used to go the games every year - often sitting around cops, construction guys, etc. - nobody got too far out of hand - the crowd set the stage.

4. Since tickets are more available, the casual fan is more likely to get them; I can't tell you how annoying it is to sit next to a fan that is screaming about a bad call, etc and that clearly doesn't know the rules of football. Go to a game a Gillette, they are so used to getting their way, anytime something happens they are either screaming for a flag or complaining about getting one. 10 years ago, the fans knew the game inside and out. The hated outside fans, but respected the game, another fans knowledge, and while they would give you 'crap'; you were always safe and they were even friendly....

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

[bostonmajet]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I honestly believe that alcohol sales should be eliminated at the games. WAY too many drunk, belligerent, ignoramuses at games that ruin the experience for everyone. That said in the games I have gone to here in San Diego, the police and security working the games tend to make the situations even more volatile with their confrontational stance towards attendees. I realize that 90+% of attendees can have a few beers and just enjoy the game but mobs are different than 8 people at a weekend BBQ. It will never happen because drinking is so ingrained into our culture, but from my experience the stadium experience is being ruined by low life drunk idiots. I also know I will be ridiculed and belittled for this opinion.

Yeah, it is crazy. The real problem is that you could eliminate the drinking at the games, but a lot of fans are already drunk from tailgating before they go through the gates. Besides the owners make a ton from sales (personally I don't like paying $8 for a crappy beer) and they would never piss off the advertisers like Bud, etc.

As for the police are concerned, I wasn't referring to the ones working the games, but those who were watching the games with other fans. They just wanted to have a good time. No real chip on their shoulder for assuming any action is a statement about their uniform. Off duty police, fireman, etc. watching the game and trying to enjoy it; they set a socially acceptable standard for behavior and rarely had to enforce it...

EDIT: Fenway park, however, has had a 'family' section(s) on the 3rd base side for a long time. It is a no-drinking, no-swearing, no-smoking section - perfectly designed for family entertainment. We have sit in other sections as well and have never seen a fight, or an overly drunk obnoxious fan (although we only go to a couple of games a year and never the yankees). I have no problem taking my 8 year old there - Gillette on the other hand isn't going to happen for quite a while.