Idiot Macagnon filled this team up with vets like Mccown and Kearse that will cost us a franchise QB.

[Apache 51]

48 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Hahah oh man. The whining. 

STOP! This is how you build a winning team. Through a couple years of drafting and solid FA signings and trades.

Look; the Jets could lose every other game by 50 points going forward... But they at least showed they have a shimmer of a young nucleus to build around. That's what you want!

 

Awesome avatar, did you make it.

[Charlie Brown]

16 minutes ago, SMC said:

BTW, do you guys know what McCown's record is in his last 24 starts before today?  2-22.

Anyone criticizing Macc for signing McCown because he WON today is being ridiculous. 

McCown was the worst starting level QB in the NFL for years and that includes Ryan Fitzpatrick!!

The idea that he is some world beater is INSANE!!!

[SMC]

6 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

McCown was the worst starting level QB in the NFL for years and that includes Ryan Fitzpatrick!!

The idea that he is some world beater is INSANE!!!

EXACTLY.  If you want to tank you sign a QB like McGown.  He's 18-44 for his career. LOL.

[Fantasy Island]

Would you have tanked for this guy?   Darnold could turn out to be another Marinovich.  Let's just play to win.

[ASH1962]

4 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

We won this game because Cutler is inept. A healthy Tanehill and its a different story. Anyone happy with this is a moron simple as that.

Well call me a moron because I was happy as hell to beat up the fish today. You can call me whatever you want as long as we win

[jetspenguin]

4 hours ago, Larz said:

There is no way Darnold comes out for some 0-16 sh*t show in the northeast 

 

What about a 1-15 sh*tshow in the northeast?

[JetFreak89]

3 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Would you have tanked for this guy?   Darnold could turn out to be another Marinovich.  Let's just play to win.

Great point....we should go against the best likely scenario to get a franchise QB (high draft pick in Round 1) just in case they bust.

Best way to never get a real QB is to never be in a position to get a real QB. 

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Oh God. Another idiotic thread. I bet this board melts down if we win next week. God forbid. 

Think of how it is going to be when the Jets are sitting at 3 and 2.

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

We won this game because Cutler is inept. A healthy Tanehill and its a different story. Anyone happy with this is a moron simple as that.

Call everyone a "moron" again and you won't be posting here.

Garbage post. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you can launch a personal attack against the majority of people on this site every day.

[Maxman]

7 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

You don't start over playing veterans that will get you just enough wins to take you out of contention for a franchise QB. This idiotic GM is clueless on how to develop a winning team. Who cares that Mccown is an above avg QB that does not help us in the least. Fair weather Jets fans are now happy this team will go 5-11 have the 8th pick in the draft with no future.

Playing McCown a few weeks is a great move. We are seeing good things from the receivers, more so this offensive line is starting to gel. We have a brand new O\C so it is good for him to have a veteran running the show for a few weeks.

That said you can't stick with McCown for long. They are going on a win streak but after the Patriots game if McCown is still standing, time for a change.

And Stewart needs to see the field more. Kerley looks good but Bowles and Gailey didn't want to even see him the last go-round. So nothing really has changed...Anderson and Kearse are doing well. Let's get Stewart on the field with Peake and bump Kerley down. 

[SMC]

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

Playing McCown a few weeks is a great move. We are seeing good things from the receivers, more so this offensive line is starting to gel. We have a brand new O\C so it is good for him to have a veteran running the show for a few weeks.

That said you can't stick with McCown for long. They are going on a win streak but after the Patriots game if McCown is still standing, time for a change.

And Stewart needs to see the field more. Kerley looks good but Bowles and Gailey didn't want to even see him the last go-round. So nothing really has changed...Anderson and Kearse are doing well. Let's get Stewart on the field with Peake and bump Kerley down. 

Max, McCown is 3 for his last 25 starts.  He literally has never been on a "win streak."

Do you think Perry or Hack can win 20% of their starts?  How about only 15% of their starts?  Guess what?  That is still better than McCown's 12% winning percentage since 2014. 

McCown remains the best option for tanking.

[sourceworx]

11 hours ago, JetFreak89 said:

Great point....we should go against the best likely scenario to get a franchise QB (high draft pick in Round 1) just in case they bust.

Best way to never get a real QB is to never be in a position to get a real QB. 

- Kirk Cousins
- Russell Wilson
- Derek Carr
- Jimmy Garoppolo
- Dak Prescott
- Deshaun Watson
- Patrick Mahomes

We were in position to draft all of these guys. Instead we passed on them.

The problem isn't where we pick. It's who we pick. The notion that we need the #1 pick to find a QB is a myth.

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

- Kirk Cousins
- Russell Wilson
- Derek Carr
- Jimmy Garoppolo
- Dak Prescott
- Deshaun Watson
- Patrick Mahomes

We were in position to draft all of these guys. Instead we passed on them.

The problem isn't where we pick. It's who we pick. The notion that we need the #1 pick to find a QB is a myth.

 

...And the jets have proven over three or four decades that they can't figure out the "who" to pick part of the equation. Forget qb, that basically applies to nearly every position the jets draft. 

The top pick basically takes most of the guess work out and would have tried stupid proofing the jets from reaching for a qb like a christian ponder type of deal or more likelier now having to trade up and pay a pretty penny to take a qb they like. 

 

[Lupz27]

18 hours ago, RoadFan said:

How do you feel about those worthless wins that cost the Jets the slot to draft Mariota?

That was Rex sticking it up Idziks ass, Rex should have been fired to ensure the Jets lost out at the bye week.

[JetFreak89]

7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

- Kirk Cousins
- Russell Wilson
- Derek Carr
- Jimmy Garoppolo
- Dak Prescott
- Deshaun Watson
- Patrick Mahomes

We were in position to draft all of these guys. Instead we passed on them.

The problem isn't where we pick. It's who we pick. The notion that we need the #1 pick to find a QB is a myth.

 

One QB who has actually won something. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have any of the other QB's on this team right now but I am comparing draft position relative to QB's who are able to get to the SuperBowl. Winning a championship is what our goal should be and while others on that list may eventually do that, so far history has shown the majority of SuperBowl QB's come from the top of the draft. 

[#27TheDominator]

Marinovich went at the end of the first round. He didn't make it because he was on drugs, not because he couldn't play the game.  Same can probably said for Jamarcus Russell. 

[RoadFan]

3 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

That was Rex sticking it up Idziks ass, Rex should have been fired to ensure the Jets lost out at the bye week.

Salt in the wound is the Bucs took the wrong guy and Mariota would have fallen into the Jets lap.

[Lupz27]

18 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

There are like 5 or 6 qbs

There are only 2, and anyone who thinks other wise is foolish.

[Lupz27]

17 hours ago, SMC said:

Going 1-15 and that one win being against the Fins is glorious for longtime Jet fans.

There's not problem having a vet QB and vet WR on this team.  Macc had slots to fill.  Today's win was about the Fins not showing up.  That's on them, not the Jets.  If the Fins came to play they would've won.

Funny last time the Jets went 1-15 they beat ummmmm the Dolphins.

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

One QB who has actually won something. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have any of the other QB's on this team right now but I am comparing draft position relative to QB's who are able to get to the SuperBowl. Winning a championship is what our goal should be and while others on that list may eventually do that, so far history has shown the majority of SuperBowl QB's come from the top of the draft. 

In the last decade, the super bowl has been won by Brady-twice (6th rounder), Peyton (#1 overall acquired via FA), Wilson (3rd rounder), Flacco (#18 overall), Eli-twice (#1 overall acquired via trade), Rodgers (#24 overall), Brees (2nd rounder acquired via FA), and Roethlisberger (#11 overall).  

The last team to win a super bowl with the QB they picked at #1 overall was the Colts in 2006.  The next one before that was Elway in 1998, but they traded for that pick too.  The tank literally has worked one time in the last 20 years. 

[sourceworx]

1 minute ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

...And the jets have proven over three or four decades that they can't figure out the "who" to pick part of the equation. Forget qb, that basically applies to nearly every position the jets draft. 

The top pick basically takes most of the guess work out and would have tried stupid proofing the jets from reaching for a qb like a christian ponder type of deal or more likelier now having to trade up and pay a pretty penny to take a qb they like. 

 

Right. Nobody was debating whether Ryan Leaf was better than Peyton Manning. Tim Couch wasn't selected over Donovan McNabb. Matt Leinart wasn't speculated to be the #1 overall pick had he come out as a junior in 2005.

There's plenty of guess work, even with the #1 pick. There's plenty of room to screw up.

[bealeb319]

There are only 2, and anyone who thinks other wise is foolish.

Anyone who thinks college prospects are locked into or out of any position of the draft this early into their season is more foolish

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

In the last decade, the super bowl has been won by Brady-twice (6th rounder), Peyton (#1 overall acquired via FA), Wilson (3rd rounder), Flacco (#18 overall), Eli-twice (#1 overall acquired via trade), Rodgers (#24 overall), Brees (2nd rounder acquired via FA), and Roethlisberger (#11 overall).  

The last team to win a super bowl with the QB they picked at #1 overall was the Colts in 2006.  The next one before that was Elway in 1998, but they traded for that pick too.  The tank literally has worked one time in the last 20 years. 

While true, the team getting that #1 pick still has to follow through with coaching and other position players, and they typically aren't up to that task even if they get close.Might Chicago have won with Carson Palmer instead of Rex Grossman? Then there are also times where the top QB selected isn't necessarily the top pick in the draft, yet were good enough to win one (e.g. Ryan). This year the #1 pick will be a QB. Or so I'm told lol.

The idea isn't that the #1 pick gets you a superbowl by itself. It's that the #1 (or top QB pick inside the top 5) pick eases the path to get there, and gives you a better shot than taking your shot with a typical QB found in the later picks (if not later rounds). But you still have to put a solid team around the QB to get there, on both sides of the ball, or you still won't get there with Luck, Palmer, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Cam, Winston/Mariota, nor in the future for Goff/Wentz or anyone in this year's crop. The idea is rather that they make the odds more favorable than later picks.

To compare honestly, you'd have to count all the QBs drafted, not merely the teams that went with a non-#1-overall pick as their starters following a process of weeding out and trying over and over for years. Otherwise - and it's not lost on me that you surely know this - the above list is incomplete without comparing, over the last 20 years or so: Brady to 40+ other 6th rounders, Wilson to a couple dozen other 3rd rounders, Roethlisberger/Flacco/Rodgers to the many other 1st round QBs taken outside the top 10, like Ponder, Tebow, Freeman, Quinn, Boller, etc.

Otherwise you're comparing every #1 overall pick to the hand-picked outliers out of the 230 (non-#1 overall pick) QBs taken thereafter since P.Manning was drafted, plus all the UDFAs who earned roster spots added to that total.

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

While true, the team getting that #1 pick still has to follow through with coaching and other position players, and they typically aren't up to that task even if they get close.Might Chicago have won with Carson Palmer instead of Rex Grossman? Then there are also times where the top QB selected isn't necessarily the top pick in the draft, yet were good enough to win one (e.g. Ryan). This year the #1 pick will be a QB. Or so I'm told lol.

The idea isn't that the #1 pick gets you a superbowl by itself. It's that the #1 (or top QB pick inside the top 5) pick eases the path to get there, and gives you a better shot than taking your shot with a typical QB found in the later picks (if not later rounds). But you still have to put a solid team around the QB to get there, on both sides of the ball, or you still won't get there with Luck, Palmer, Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Cam, Winston/Mariota, nor in the future for Goff/Wentz or anyone in this year's crop. The idea is rather that they make the odds more favorable than later picks.

To compare honestly, you'd have to count all the QBs drafted, not merely the teams that went with a non-#1-overall pick as their starters following a process of weeding out and trying over and over for years. Otherwise - and it's not lost on me that you surely know this - the above list is incomplete without comparing, over the last 20 years or so: Brady to 40+ other 6th rounders, Wilson to a couple dozen other 3rd rounders, Roethlisberger/Flacco/Rodgers to the many other 1st round QBs taken outside the top 10, like Ponder, Tebow, Freeman, Quinn, Boller, etc.

Otherwise you're comparing every #1 overall pick to the hand-picked outliers out of the 230 (non-#1 overall pick) QBs taken thereafter since P.Manning was drafted, plus all the UDFAs who earned roster spots added to that total.

Is Ryan really good enough to win one?  You turned the super bowl off early?

I don't dispute that the #1 pick is an asset, I just dispute the misguided idea that it is the only way to win a super bowl.  The team that signs Cousins will probably end up with a better chance than the team picking #1 overall. I was just pointing out that there are more ways to get a QBs coming from the top of the draft than just finishing with the worst record.

[Sperm Edwards]

38 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Is Ryan really good enough to win one?  You turned the super bowl off early?

I don't dispute that the #1 pick is an asset, I just dispute the misguided idea that it is the only way to win a super bowl.  The team that signs Cousins will probably end up with a better chance than the team picking #1 overall. I was just pointing out that there are more ways to get a QBs coming from the top of the draft than just finishing with the worst record.

Yes I did turn it off early. Nothing good could come out of watching. I weighed the happiness of watching Atlanta run out the clock with the misery of a NE comeback, and made my choice based on that. But I think the poor coaching sealed it; he played well enough early on that they still should have won, even if it got closer. Plus a player/team is in a different mindset when they're in "don't make a mistake" mode than they are in "nothing to lose" mode. Robs them of what makes them special.

I don't think anyone's saying it's the only way to win a superbowl. But the flexibility it provides is undeniable. If you like someone else just as much - and if you know what you're doing lol - you can trade out of that top spot, cash in on a windfall in return, and still get the guy you wanted all along.

The downside with Cousins is that for the next 4 years he'll cost some $20-25m per year more than even the #1 overall pick gets, and another $5m or so more in the 5th team-option season. Makes it harder to build a team around the QB. But then again, that team will still be armed with their 2018 first round pick; say he's a dominant edge rusher, he'll also cost some $15m/year less than his young FA counterpart. Not that such players hit free agency in the first place. Also he doesn't have the theoretical upside of one of these kids. We think we've seen his ceiling.

And I think a lot of it is just that: the optimism of the unknown, with the potential for better than a Cousins, an Alex Smith, etc. There's always going to be some stigma attached to a veteran that if he was going to be a SB QB we'd know it by now, and if he was good enough his existing team never would have let him go for nothing (improbable circumstances like Indy/P.Manning/Luck notwithstanding). 

[JetFreak89]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

In the last decade, the super bowl has been won by Brady-twice (6th rounder), Peyton (#1 overall acquired via FA), Wilson (3rd rounder), Flacco (#18 overall), Eli-twice (#1 overall acquired via trade), Rodgers (#24 overall), Brees (2nd rounder acquired via FA), and Roethlisberger (#11 overall).  

The last team to win a super bowl with the QB they picked at #1 overall was the Colts in 2006.  The next one before that was Elway in 1998, but they traded for that pick too.  The tank literally has worked one time in the last 20 years. 

That is some serious number massaging to get to a predetermined conclusion. The point is that out of ALL the QB's to appear in a SB, the majority were taken either at the top or near the top of the draft. So Eli's multiple championships don't count because he was traded? Same with Peyton because his second wasn't with the Colts? That still doesn't take away from the fact that they won multiple championships and certainly doesn't negate the fact of where they were found in the draft. 

I assume you would rather win 4 games this year and have to give up multiple first round draft picks to get to number one rather than owning the pick ourselves? 

[August]

We weren't gonna go 0-16 we got a solid win but this team isn't going anywhere this season regardless of it. 

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

That is some serious number massaging to get to a predetermined conclusion. The point is that out of ALL the QB's to appear in a SB, the majority were taken either at the top or near the top of the draft. So Eli's multiple championships don't count because he was traded? Same with Peyton because his second wasn't with the Colts? That still doesn't take away from the fact that they won multiple championships and certainly doesn't negate the fact of where they were found in the draft. 

I assume you would rather win 4 games this year and have to give up multiple first round draft picks to get to number one rather than owning the pick ourselves? 

I don't get what the **** you people are talking about.  I didn't massage a ******* thing.  I provided facts.  I have read that having the worst record is by far the easiest way to end up with a super bowl QB.  I don't dispute that great QBs are usually at the top of the draft.  I dispute that teams with the worst record end up with the best QBs. 

I would rather go 11-5, but this team as constructed can't even dream of such a thing.  

[Pcola]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Is Ryan really good enough to win one?  You turned the super bowl off early?

I don't dispute that the #1 pick is an asset, I just dispute the misguided idea that it is the only way to win a super bowl.  The team that signs Cousins will probably end up with a better chance than the team picking #1 overall. I was just pointing out that there are more ways to get a QBs coming from the top of the draft than just finishing with the worst record.

First off, Darnold/Rosen on a rookie contract > Cousins at $28M+ annually.

Everyone can go back and look at the trends of QBs in the draft over the past 20 years, but all you need to look at is the past 3 or 4 drafts.  Winston/Mariota.  Goff/Wentz.  Trubisky/Mahomes/Watson.  

When you have guys like Hoyer and McCown starting games, there aren't enough starting QBs. Then you look at how old a number of the starters are, like Brady, Phillips, Eli, Brees, etc., there are several teams that need young QBs to take over a year or two down the road.

And the trend set by the past several drafts is this: team's picking in the top 2 get their QB.  Teams that aren't, have to give up a ton of draft picks to get one.

[Sperm Edwards]

23 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

You don't start over playing veterans that will get you just enough wins to take you out of contention for a franchise QB. This idiotic GM is clueless on how to develop a winning team. Who cares that Mccown is an above avg QB that does not help us in the least. Fair weather Jets fans are now happy this team will go 5-11 have the 8th pick in the draft with no future.

You had me at Idiot Maccagnan / Filet Macagnon

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Pcola said:

First off, Darnold/Rosen on a rookie contract > Cousins at $28M+ annually.

Everyone can go back and look at the trends of QBs in the draft over the past 20 years, but all you need to look at is the past 3 or 4 drafts.  Winston/Mariota.  Goff/Wentz.  Trubisky/Mahomes/Watson.  

When you have guys like Hoyer and McCown starting games, there aren't enough starting QBs. Then you look at how old a number of the starters are, like Brady, Phillips, Eli, Brees, etc., there are several teams that need young QBs to take over a year or two down the road.

And the trend set by the past several drafts is this: team's picking in the top 2 get their QB.  Teams that aren't, have to give up a ton of draft picks to get one.

Whatever, I will reply paragraph, by paragraph. 

1. I am willing to bet that the team that picks #1 overall is not competing for a super bowl until Darnold/Rosen are off their rookie contract.  

2. What are you trying to say here.  I have literally no idea.  Trubisky went 2, Mahomes went 10, Watson 12th.  What am I learning from this trend?  That I should draft a QB?  No sh*t.  Why didn't we?  Two of them went after us. 

3. No argument here.  Also, again, not sure of the relevance.  Since 2012 the teams that picked #1 overall include the Colts (good QB, sh*t team), Chiefs (just traded up to #10 for Mahomes cause they don't have much faith in their QB), Texans (looking for a QB, but possibly happy with picking Watson 12 overall), Bucs (presumably happy with Winston), Rams possibly happy with Goff, Browns (still looking for a QB, maybe happy with Kizer)

4.  That is not a trend. It is a long established fact.  If you want to move up you pay.  No shock there. The better you think the player available the more you'll pay.