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McCown on 3rd Down


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24 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Ding ding! We have a winner.

My main reason for comparing like this was the 50% red zone completion rate. 

EDIT - Rodgers is 55% in the red zone

To be fair, a power running game helps a lot with red zone completion percentage.  We don't have one so nobody stacks the box on us.  I am as disinterested in watching McCown start as anyone but he certainly hasn't been awful.  It would be interesting to see  what he would look like if we called a normal offense with...you know...passes over 7 yards once in a while but that's not McCown's fault either.  Disappointing in a way because I really want to see Petty get a shot but that looks less and less likely for any time soon.

 

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16 hours ago, jamesr said:

We've converted 15 of 39 3rd downs ... good for 16th in the league (38%).

So nothing special. I guess a lot of those completions were short of the marker. Like when you get 12 yards on 3rd and 20 to make your field position better for a FG / punt.

Honestly 16th in the league ain't so bad when we spent the whole offseason being told this would be the worst offense in history. 

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15 minutes ago, nycdan said:

To be fair, a power running game helps a lot with red zone completion percentage.  We don't have one so nobody stacks the box on us.  I am as disinterested in watching McCown start as anyone but he certainly hasn't been awful.  It would be interesting to see  what he would look like if we called a normal offense with...you know...passes over 7 yards once in a while but that's not McCown's fault either.  Disappointing in a way because I really want to see Petty get a shot but that looks less and less likely for any time soon.

 

Morton is putting a WCO system, it ALWAYS starts with the short passing game. It's predicated on getting the ball out & getting one on ones in space. Can't wait to see Stewart get more involved because his game is predicated on toughness, straight arms & being difficult to get down. Kearse & Kerley are more sit down in open areas. Morton called the long pass to Anderson last week, you want to dink & dunk, lull the defense & BAM, run that stop & go. I have no idea how good the Jags defense is after 3 games because they played an AWFUL Texans offense without Watson, got blown out at home & then played the 32nd worst offense in the NFL, the Ravens whose entire WRs have less catches then a guy we traded for in Kearse. 

We'll find out a lot on Sunday about the Jets offense & the Jags defense. 

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2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Morton is putting a WCO system, it ALWAYS starts with the short passing game. It's predicated on getting the ball out & getting one on ones in space. Can't wait to see Stewart get more involved because his game is predicated on toughness, straight arms & being difficult to get down. Kearse & Kerley are more sit down in open areas. Morton called the long pass to Anderson last week, you want to dink & dunk, lull the defense & BAM, run that stop & go. I have no idea how good the Jags defense is after 3 games because they played an AWFUL Texans offense without Watson, got blown out at home & then played the 32nd worst offense in the NFL, the Ravens whose entire WRs have less catches then a guy we traded for in Kearse. 

We'll find out a lot on Sunday about the Jets offense & the Jags defense. 

Fair point.  Here's the stat that still bothers me and probably explains why the offense is not scoring despite those stats:

The Jets have the fewest 1st downs per game (14.7) of any team (league median 19.2), despite having slightly over 30 minutes ToP per game.  So we're on the field, progressing through our short passes, but not actually sustaining drives.  The misleading part of the 3rd down statistics is that teams should also be converting on 1st and 2nd downs.  We don't.  So our 3rd down metrics look okay but overall, we need those 3 downs on most drives to even have a shot at a first down.  This is supported by the fact that we are 30th in the league in yards/game (273.7) vs. a league median of about 320, and 28th in total plays (167) vs. a league median of 184.

It's early.  The offense is new to the team and certainly can improve.  The line can gel and get the running game going.  Heck, we might even win 6 games.  But at the end of the day, we still will have no playoffs and a 38 year-old QB who gives us no long-term value.  So I'm about as excited by all this on the inside as Bowles is on the outside.

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16 hours ago, pointman said:

McCown is easy to watch and doesn't make me mad or nervous.. unlike every other qb we have had.

 

16 hours ago, Jetster said:

That's pretty good for the 1st three games of the season considering you didn't have your starting TE in the first 2 games, your top WR was just traded for and had very little time with McCown, your other WRs are a 2nd year guy & a rookie in Stewart and your starting running back has looked like he's running in cement shoes. Plus Kerley wasn't even in camp with Josh.

 

 

16 hours ago, drsamuel84 said:

I know he's not our franchise QB but he's been pretty solid so far, I think a better QB than Fitz considering his ability to stretch the field.  

 

16 hours ago, pointman said:

McCown is easy to watch and doesn't make me mad or nervous.. unlike every other qb we have had.

 

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Soaring majestically sounds very dangerous. I suggest we will drive 5 miles an hour under the speed limit in the center lane with seat belts on. 

McCown give us a chance to be competitive in most games. I think as a Jet fan that's about all you could ask for. 

I wanted to dislike McCown but he's not letting me.

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17 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Well that's certainly surprising.  Although that kind of brings to question of what their run/pass rate on third down has been, and how many of those completions have been conversions.

I don't know the answers, but we know they've had plenty of failed third downs, particularly in the first two weeks.  I have nothing against McCown, but he probably doesn't deserve praise in the instances he threw a 3 yard pass, or the Jets ran a failed draw, on 3rd and long.  But on the flip side, have to give credit to the receivers too for that catch rate, but there are of course still those same questions.

I am too lazy to look it up, but I would guess these 81% completions are all the no gain to 3 yard pass that we do not convert on.

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This guy has lasted 18 years, will most likely play a few more years and made very good money along the way because he is one of the 35-40 best pro QBs in the whole world.

Can someone tell me why that's not true?

Also, imagine if the Jets had a rookie QB playing right now performing at the exact same level.

How would he be viewed by the fans?

 

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Fair point.  Here's the stat that still bothers me and probably explains why the offense is not scoring despite those stats:

The Jets have the fewest 1st downs per game (14.7) of any team (league median 19.2), despite having slightly over 30 minutes ToP per game.  So we're on the field, progressing through our short passes, but not actually sustaining drives.  The misleading part of the 3rd down statistics is that teams should also be converting on 1st and 2nd downs.  We don't.  So our 3rd down metrics look okay but overall, we need those 3 downs on most drives to even have a shot at a first down.  This is supported by the fact that we are 30th in the league in yards/game (273.7) vs. a league median of about 320, and 28th in total plays (167) vs. a league median of 184.

It's early.  The offense is new to the team and certainly can improve.  The line can gel and get the running game going.  Heck, we might even win 6 games.  But at the end of the day, we still will have no playoffs and a 38 year-old QB who gives us no long-term value.  So I'm about as excited by all this on the inside as Bowles is on the outside.

Let me play devils advocate,lol. Jets started out @ Buffalo (a traditionally tough place to play, Denver found that out last Sunday). The Jets were incorporating a WR that hadn't yet played a game with the Jets & did not have their starting TE, a 2nd year guy in Anderson & a rookie (Stewart) also the Bills Oline ranks in top 5 in NFL. We started 2 rookie safeties. Not excuses, just facts.

At Oakland! What has been the NY Jets record at Oakland, lol. Not only that Oaklands home opener. 12-4 last year & they add Marshawn Lynch! 3 plays in that game led to 21 points for the Raiders. Worst match-up for such a young Jet team trying to find its way.

So after 3 games in the NFL, its very clear that this young Jet team easily had the toughest 2 games starting ON THE ROAD, at Buffalo & at Oakland. I'm only interested in development this year of our young players. Are Stewart, ASJ, McGuire, Anderson going to learn the nuances of the WCO from Petty or Hackenberg if they don't know them themselves? Isn't it better to prepare your skill players with someone like McCown who's coaching them on the field, putting them in the proper positions, calling line protections which also educates the Oline too? At least this way if they do finally make a switch at some point the skill players & the oline are already well versed themselves & can make the transition to Petty or Hack actually have a chance of success. Its the same reason the Pats are successful when Brady hasn't played (The System), the QB doesn't have to do it all by himself, everyone knows what their job is the DO YOUR JOB mantra you hear from the Pats players is just that. 

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5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Let me play devils advocate,lol. Jets started out @ Buffalo (a traditionally tough place to play, Denver found that out last Sunday). The Jets were incorporating a WR that hadn't yet played a game with the Jets & did not have their starting TE, a 2nd year guy in Anderson & a rookie (Stewart) also the Bills Oline ranks in top 5 in NFL. We started 2 rookie safeties. Not excuses, just facts.

At Oakland! What has been the NY Jets record at Oakland, lol. Not only that Oaklands home opener. 12-4 last year & they add Marshawn Lynch! 3 plays in that game led to 21 points for the Raiders. Worst match-up for such a young Jet team trying to find its way.

So after 3 games in the NFL, its very clear that this young Jet team easily had the toughest 2 games starting ON THE ROAD, at Buffalo & at Oakland. I'm only interested in development this year of our young players. Are Stewart, ASJ, McGuire, Anderson going to learn the nuances of the WCO from Petty or Hackenberg if they don't know them themselves? Isn't it better to prepare your skill players with someone like McCown who's coaching them on the field, putting them in the proper positions, calling line protections which also educates the Oline too? At least this way if they do finally make a switch at some point the skill players & the oline are already well versed themselves & can make the transition to Petty or Hack actually have a chance of success. Its the same reason the Pats are successful when Brady hasn't played (The System), the QB doesn't have to do it all by himself, everyone knows what their job is the DO YOUR JOB mantra you hear from the Pats players is just that. 

Short answer.  Yes.  I agree with this, but only if we actually make the switch at some point this season.  Unless we are legitimately in playoff contention, which could be 5-6, but not 4-7.  Forget about mathematically eliminated...once we are rationally no longer vying for a playoff slot, let's see some Petty, then I'd agree this is a good approach.  

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32 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Short answer.  Yes.  I agree with this, but only if we actually make the switch at some point this season.  Unless we are legitimately in playoff contention, which could be 5-6, but not 4-7.  Forget about mathematically eliminated...once we are rationally no longer vying for a playoff slot, let's see some Petty, then I'd agree this is a good approach.  

I'm completely in agreement with you, but you & I know what will happen right? Jets win Sunday....Jets beat Browns...3-2 with the hated Pats coming to town, you know, deep down in your heart, even with the highest doubts they could beat the Pats, you still hope right? If your truly a Jet fan its just human nature.

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32 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I'm completely in agreement with you, but you & I know what will happen right? Jets win Sunday....Jets beat Browns...3-2 with the hated Pats coming to town, you know, deep down in your heart, even with the highest doubts they could beat the Pats, you still hope right? If your truly a Jet fan its just human nature.

IF they are 3-2 going into the Pats game, I will completely root for them to beat, if not utterly destroy the Pats.  Because at 3-2 we have no realistic shot left at Rosen or Darnold.  Which is why I fully expect that to happen.

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4 hours ago, Jet Blast said:

 

 

 

 

I wanted to dislike McCown but he's not letting me.

I was being sarcastic. Sarcasm may be the lowest form of humor but when it's subtle it is the highest form of low. 

I fell for the Fitz thing when we had a better team full of vets.

I'm not falling for it again and neither should you. McCown will only set us back another 2 years with his competitiveness. I want to be a contender, not settle for competitive.  

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41 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I was being sarcastic. Sarcasm may be the lowest form of humor but when it's subtle it is the highest form of low. 

I fell for the Fitz thing when we had a better team full of vets.

I'm not falling for it again and neither should you. McCown will only set us back another 2 years with his competitiveness. I want to be a contender, not settle for competitive.  

i get this.  but they only get back an additional season if hack or petty don't make it clear they can be the qb next season and beyond. i guess regardless of this season's they will have to draft one of the top prospects if given the chance but they'd be ahead of the game if they don't need to rely on the 2018 draft for their future qb.

 

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18 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i get this.  but they only get back an additional season if hack or petty don't make it clear they can be the qb next season and beyond. i guess regardless of this season's they will have to draft one of the top prospects if given the chance but they'd be ahead of the game if they don't need to rely on the 2018 draft for their future qb.

 

How is anyone going to make anything clear if they don't see the field until we're out of the race and the team is either hurt or they quit on the season? 

Petty needs to start within the next few weeks to be meaningful. That's not going to happen. If there's a capable vet then he will always start and take all the practice reps just like Kerley and Forte. Bowles is okay with playing young guys on defense but he's afraid of offense.

Petty and Hack are getting mental reps in practice. 

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4 hours ago, nycdan said:

Short answer.  Yes.  I agree with this, but only if we actually make the switch at some point this season.  Unless we are legitimately in playoff contention, which could be 5-6, but not 4-7.  Forget about mathematically eliminated...once we are rationally no longer vying for a playoff slot, let's see some Petty, then I'd agree this is a good approach.  

Once the team is out of the race and they switch to the out of the race QB do you really think the team will be playing with the same intensity? 

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1 minute ago, NYs Stepchild said:

How is anyone going to make anything clear if they don't see the field until we're out of the race and the team is either hurt or they quit on the season? 

Petty needs to start within the next few weeks to be meaningful. That's not going to happen. If there's a capable vet then he will always start and take all the practice reps just like Kerley.

Petty and Hack are getting mental reps in practice. 

i agree. i know bowles wants to win and i'm sure the whole team does.  it's not like they're going like mccown getting benched at this point so petty or hack can get in.  they read the papers just like we do and won't be very happy.  unless, hack/petty light it up.  i think the initial shock of benching mccown has to be absorbed by bowles.  once they do start to play it's up to them to keep the team on their side.

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2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i agree. i know bowles wants to win and i'm sure the whole team does.  it's not like they're going like mccown getting benched at this point so petty or hack can get in.  they read the papers just like we do and won't be very happy.  unless, hack/petty light it up.  i think the initial shock of benching mccown has to be absorbed by bowles.  once they do start to play it's up to them to keep the team on their side.

This is the dilemma that i predicted over and over during camp. I don't see a way out of it now. I was mostly afraid of McCown looking good. winning a couple of the easy games in this beginning of the season. He's just not talented enough to actually win against the better teams and even if he did okay he's 38 and not part of the future.

The smart way to play this season would have been to start Petty and let him either crash or fly. Either way would have worked out for the future and we wouldn't have this quagmire.

Winning now is detrimental to the future which really puts us all in a very uncomfortable position. It's a lot like a dysfunctional marriage. We need to play the field. McCown is not the one and it's better to break it off sooner than later. 

 

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5 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I was being sarcastic. Sarcasm may be the lowest form of humor but when it's subtle it is the highest form of low. 

I fell for the Fitz thing when we had a better team full of vets.

I'm not falling for it again and neither should you. McCown will only set us back another 2 years with his competitiveness. I want to be a contender, not settle for competitive.  

I am falling for nothing. Much to my surprise, McCown is a seemingly good choice to carry the torch this year. However, I don't want him on the team next year unless it's as a backup on the cheap (lesson learned from Fitz). He would make a good mentor for our new franchise QB (too much optimism, perhaps?). The key to  me, is how the coaching staff manages him through the rest of the season. At some point he will need to yield playing time to one or both of the younger QB's.

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