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Regardless of Record, Jets’ Maccagnan Has one Mission

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24 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

These Idzik guys who want so badly for Mac to be worse than their guy, can't stand 'em. They're like carnies. Circus folk, nomads you know, smelling like cabbage with their small hands.

1) it is impossible to be worse than idzik drafting.

2) Being better than idzik but still being sh*tty does not = success.

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1 hour ago, AFJF said:

It absolutely is.  All this talk about how he’s gonna’ go defense is wishful thinking on the part of the Idzik guys who want so badly for Mac to be worse than their guy.

It’s 100% gonna be a QB.

No its not 100% going to be a QB when we aren't in position to get one of the elite guys. If we can't land Darnold, Rosen, or Allen who I still like very much this idiot will go with what he considers the best player available and you can guess what side of the ball that will be. In the second round we will reach for a stiff like Browning and the mess will continue as is.

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1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Agreed in that Hackenberg is actually worse than not making an effort, because not making an effort would have involved spending that 2nd rounder on a guy who might actually start an NFL game at some point. Passing on Watson in April 2017 because we're busy projecting the 2018 QB class is so monumentally stupid that I have no doubt it's precisely how Maccagnan approached it. Three years of work has led us to this: Darnold staying in school, Rosen emerging as the only guy at the top, and we've got no shot at a top-3 pick and no shot of getting there short of butt****ing our next four drafts. Or we could hand a nine-figure contract to a guy who'll be 30 when next season starts, who no one thinks is all that great, and who is almost certainly signing with San Francisco anyway. It's malpractice. But hey, how about those safeties?

If Maccagnan was truly set on landing either Darnold or Rosen he should have forced Bowles to start Hack. By the way I don't want Cousins and the ridiculous contract he will receive but he isn't going to San Fran either. No way are the Niners passing on either Darnold or Rosen so they can pay Cousins 25 million per season.

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39 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also dude, Idzik guys is not the preferred nomenclature. Idzik guys who want so badly for Mac to be worse than their guy, please.

What are you? A park ranger now, Walter? Lol

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18 minutes ago, freestater said:

What are you? A park ranger now, Walter? Lol

Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax...you’re god damn right I’m living in the past! 

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Key is lets hope Mac has learned something from the whole finding a QB experience. Issue is as we see with someone like Hack, he would be a pretty good QB, but he so far is missing probably the most important part, which is processing info quick enough.

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57 minutes ago, section314 said:

Something to keep in perspective when everyone is panicking that because the Jets have won 3 games and that we are going to miss out on someone who is projected to be the best of a QB class that will rival the famed class of 1983............The Dolphins went to the Super Bowl the year before, picked 27th in that draft, and got the best QB of them all. Relax, you never know what will happen.

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for at this point.

Like the way 2012's QB draft ended up. Plenty of talent at that position on draft day (therefore leave it to the Jets to extend Sanchez the month before :bag:) . 4 QBs taken in round 1, including 1, 2, and 8 overall. Then another in round 2.

Then the 6th QB taken, in the middle of round 3, is the best of the bunch, and the 8th one taken is at worst neck & neck with the #1 guy (innate talent aside). Dramatically so when considering the draft capital kept that allowed their teams to do other things (or would have, if Washington didn't also spend including that year's #6 and #39 overall, plus their next two 1st round picks, on RGIII). Who's to say where Washington might have been these past few years if they had all those picks back and just took only Cousins. Even if they only took two safeties that first year lol.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

 

Trading a bagful of #1's and #2 picks for one guy, has that ever worked?  I can't recall an example off the top of my head.  

Eli Manning? Just off the top of my head.

Also consider that teams staying pat at #1/#2, instead of trading down, are forgoing that type of compensation. Depending on one's point of view, those teams also gave up such compensation to take their guy at #1/#2 overall.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for at this point.

Like the way 2012's QB draft ended up. Plenty of talent at that position on draft day (therefore leave it to the Jets to extend Sanchez the month before :bag:) . 4 QBs taken in round 1, including 1, 2, and 8 overall. Then another in round 2.

Then the 6th QB taken, in the middle of round 3, is the best of the bunch, and the 8th one taken is at worst neck & neck with the #1 guy (innate talent aside). Dramatically so when considering the draft capital kept that allowed their teams to do other things (or would have, if Washington didn't also spend including that year's #6 and #39 overall, plus their next two 1st round picks, on RGIII). Who's to say where Washington might have been these past few years if they had all those picks back and just took only Cousins. Even if they only took two safeties that first year lol.

Hey, ease off on the safeties.:D Seriously, everyone has to just take a breath and relax. We don't even know who the heck is coming out, or where anyone is drafting. I am concerned, however, about who may be picking the QB. 

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

I believe Year one was about evaluating Geno.  Geno Geno’d so they had to go with Fitz.

Year two was trying to capitalize on a very good year one while letting the two guys he drafted sit and learn.

Year three those guys were given a shot to win the starting job.  Petty won it, but bowles didn’t care.

Hack had a shot to show something and all he showed is that he’s 10-12 years away from being a serviceable third stringer.

He put together a roster that should have them in position to get a top pick or realistically trade up to the top 3 or 5.

I'm not going to rehash the comical debacle of the Geno/Fitz/Petty situation with you...not year 1 or year 2, we've been there done that and here we are.  

So let's be real here, Petty and Hack didn't have a shot the second they signed McCown and that's both because they're not very good and also because Todd is obsessed with veterans.  The worst part is, the result probably isn't all that different with Petty.  However,  the fact neither of them is better than Josh McCown is bad and that's on Mac.  How bad Hack is also on Mac and certainly doesn't give me a whole lot of faith in him picking a QB moving forward.  So I'm not excited about this roster being bad enough to get a top 5 pick and certainly not trading up for a prospect because if he misses on a trade up, then we might as well start talking about a new GM and his 4 year rebuild because of the mess Mac left him.

That is why I'm ride or die 2017.  Lets win the whole damn thing!!!!!! :)

 

 

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3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't know if it's fair to say he hasn't made an effort at QB -- he made his move in drafting Hackenberg. It was just an awful, terrible, disastrous move that basically resulted in us flushing a 2nd round pick down the toilet and wasting a roster spot for two years.

McCown was a placeholder because he liked the 2018 crop of QBs better than the 2017 crop.

The real question, to me, why this guy should be making the decision on our next QB? Because it's not like the Hackenberg flop came out of nowhere. Tons of people had him as undraftable... And we were forced to see what Maccagnan knew that nobody else did. The answer, of course, was nothing.

The problem that I have with bold is that if this was the case, McCown has no place here.  And the other problem is, in March there was nothing to think 2018 would be better other than hype on a bunch of guys "looking the part."  I'd argue none of the 2018 products have anything special about them, whereas Watson and Mahomes bring special talents you can't teach to the table and I didn't even want Mahomes. 

 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

The problem that I have with bold is that if this was the case, McCown has no place here.  And the other problem is, in March there was nothing to think 2018 would be better other than hype on a bunch of guys "looking the part."  I'd argue none of the 2018 products have anything special about them, whereas Watson and Mahomes bring special talents you can't teach to the table and I didn't even want Mahomes. 

 

I mean we all have our opinions but I would argue it's widely believed that the 2018 QB class is much stronger than the 2017 one, both at the top and in terms of depth. That's pretty much everything I've read, and I'm pretty sure I specifically read a nugget that the Jets in particular felt that way and that's why they didn't take a QB last year... That said I wanted Watson and 6 and that obviously seems like a missed opportunity.

I think McCown was brought in purely because the team didn't think they had a QB on the roster that could play. I'm sure they were hoping Hackenberg would take a big leap forward but assumed he wouldn't and just needed a halfway competent player to get us through the season. If I had to guess he's probably actually exceeded their expectations.

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean we all have our opinions but I would argue it's widely believed that the 2018 QB class is much stronger than the 2017 one, both at the top and in terms of depth. That's pretty much everything I've read, and I'm pretty sure I specifically read a nugget that the Jets in particular felt that way and that's why they didn't take a QB last year... That said I wanted Watson and 6 and that obviously seems like a missed opportunity.

I think McCown was brought in purely because the team didn't think they had a QB on the roster that could play. I'm sure they were hoping Hackenberg would take a big leap forward but assumed he wouldn't and just needed a halfway competent player to get us through the season. If I had to guess he's probably actually exceeded their expectations.

No, you are right.  It is widely believed that 2018 is the much better class.  My problem is, I think they're all wrong and have since March.  At the time people were stating this predraft, there was literally nothing other than hype to support that belief.  Unless you're a fan of Jackson or Mayfield.  The production wasn't there for any of these guys.  It was just "they look the part".  Now you see Darnold has huge red flags, Rudolph/Mayfield/Jackson all scream college QB's that don't translate.  Allen sucks.  And Rosen is the only one living up to the hype and he might be straight cray.

I wanted Watson too.  I thought it was a complete no brainer.  There was way to much unanswered to be looking forward to 2018 and now the answers are coming and they're not good. 

 

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

No, you are right.  It is widely believed that 2018 is the much better class.  My problem is, I think they're all wrong and have since March.  At the time people were stating this predraft, there was literally nothing other than hype to support that belief.  Unless you're a fan of Jackson or Mayfield.  The production wasn't there for any of these guys.  It was just "they look the part".  Now you see Darnold has huge red flags, Rudolph/Mayfield/Jackson all scream college QB's that don't translate.  Allen sucks.  And Rosen is the only one living up to the hype and he might be straight cray.

I wanted Watson too.  I thought it was a complete no brainer.  There was way to much unanswered to be looking forward to 2018 and now the answers are coming and they're not good. 

 

Gotcha. I'm personally still on the Darnold bandwagon, but I agree all of these guys have issues... But I'd bet half of them end up being good anyway.

With Darnold and Allen looking less likely I'm trying to talk myself into Luke Falk.

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26 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm not going to rehash the comical debacle of the Geno/Fitz/Petty situation with you...not year 1 or year 2, we've been there done that and here we are.  

So let's be real here, Petty and Hack didn't have a shot the second they signed McCown and that's both because they're not very good and also because Todd is obsessed with veterans.  The worst part is, the result probably isn't all that different with Petty.  However,  the fact neither of them is better than Josh McCown is bad and that's on Mac.  How bad Hack is also on Mac and certainly doesn't give me a whole lot of faith in him picking a QB moving forward.  So I'm not excited about this roster being bad enough to get a top 5 pick and certainly not trading up for a prospect because if he misses on a trade up, then we might as well start talking about a new GM and his 4 year rebuild because of the mess Mac left him.

That is why I'm ride or die 2017.  Lets win the whole damn thing!!!!!! :)

 

 

Given the crop of garbage QB's he drafted, I'm sure there were some Ravens fans who weren't thrilled with Ozzie Newsome getting to pick Joe Flacco.  

I just don't think it's as easy to find a good QB as some fans assume.

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14 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I just don't think it's as easy to find a good QB as some fans assume.

 

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

I’m not the least bit worried that they won’t have a promising young QB next season.

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7 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Given the crop of garbage QB's he drafted, I'm sure there were some Ravens fans who weren't thrilled with Ozzie Newsome getting to pick Joe Flacco.  

I just don't think it's as easy to find a good QB as some fans assume.

You have to find a QB with the attributes that will allow him to win in the division you're in .

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

You have to find a QB with the attributes that will allow him to win in the division you're in .

So in the case of the Jets, they have to find a QB who is better than the best QB of all time?

Tall order.

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10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Given the crop of garbage QB's he drafted, I'm sure there were some Ravens fans who weren't thrilled with Ozzie Newsome getting to pick Joe Flacco.  

I just don't think it's as easy to find a good QB as some fans assume.

I don’t think there is a single Jets fan on the planet thinks finding a QB is easy and takes it for granted. 

Ozzie Newsome has 2 Super Bowls and has drafted a handful of HOF players.  I think he’s earned a little more leeway than Big Mac.

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Just now, JiF said:

I don’t think there is a single Jets fan on the planet thinks finding a QB is easy and takes it for granted. 

Ozzie Newsome has 2 Super Bowls and has drafted a handful of HOF players.  I think he’s earned a little more leeway than Big Mac.

I'd disagree.  Mac has swung and missed twice and a lot of folks feel like missing twice is unforgivable and he's gotta' be fired.

Right, but he missed on tons of QB's and didn't win anything until he got one on his 8th or 9th try.

 

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Just now, AFJF said:

So in the case of the Jets, they have to find a QB who is better than the best QB of all time?

Tall order.

Mark Sanchez won games against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning . 

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Just now, Tinstar said:

Mark Sanchez won games against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning . 

Right, lightning struck and a bum QB won some big games.  You were talking about drafting a guy who can win the division you're in. 

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So I asked why you thought they would finally get a QB for 2018 and you had already written an article? 

On 10/12/2017 at 11:37 AM, Warfish said:

Trading a bagful of #1's and #2 picks for one guy, has that ever worked?  I can't recall an example off the top of my head.  

Elway?  Julio Jones? Eli?

On 10/12/2017 at 12:24 PM, redlichtie said:

Jim Druckenmiller went with the No 1 overall pick?...when did I miss this?

Jim Drunken Miller went at the bottom of the first.  Not 1 overall.  He was the Qb for the Memphis Maniax when I watched them lose a squeaker to the Hitmen on St. Patrick's Day way back when.

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8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'd disagree.  Mac has swung and missed twice and a lot of folks feel like missing twice is unforgivable and he's gotta' be fired.

Right, but he missed on tons of QB's and didn't win anything until he got one on his 8th or 9th try.

 

A 4th round pick is a swing and a miss?  It isn't even trying.  He has had three opportunities and people are giving him a pass because "he had to see what he had in Geno" and because he burned a 4th on Petty?  I kind of like Petty, but that is not a swing.  For a team with our QB situation it is not trying.

56 minutes ago, JiF said:

That is why I'm ride or die 2017.  Lets win the whole damn thing!!!!!! :)

 

I don't care if you are being a sarcastic prick.  I'm in.  Let's ******* do this!

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

A 4th round pick is a swing and a miss?  It isn't even trying.  He has had three opportunities and people are giving him a pass because "he had to see what he had in Geno" and because he burned a 4th on Petty?  I kind of like Petty, but that is not a swing.  For a team with our QB situation it is not trying.

I don't care if you are being a sarcastic prick.  I'm in.  Let's ******* do this!

Swing?  Try?  Attempt?  Effort?  Whatever you'd like to call it, he traded up to get Petty and it looks like he'll be a career back up.

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9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

So I asked why you thought they would finally get a QB for 2018 and you had already written and article? 

Elway?  Julio Jones? Eli?

Jim Drunken Miller went at the bottom of the first.  Not 1 overall.  He was the Qb for the Memphis Maniax when I watched them lose a squeaker to the Hitmen on St. Patrick's Day way back when.

Yup, read it wrong when I looked him up.  Article said 49ers took Druckenmiller despite Bill Walsh advising them to take Plummer with their first pick.  I thought it said "the first pick" which I didn't recall him being either.

Even still, point of the statement was that a lot of HC's and execs have missed at QB, so at 1 or 26 the point is the same.

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5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Swing?  Try?  Attempt?  Effort?  Whatever you'd like to call it, he traded up to get Petty and it looks like he'll be a career back up.

That's my point. I don't think they ever saw Petty as much more than a career backup.  They certainly gave him no opportunity as a rookie and it took a complete implosion by Fitzpatrick and Geno blowing his knee out for him to even see the field last season.  Petty was not drafted with any expectation at all beyond being a worthy draft pick.  This team needed a QB.  Then the next year they needed a QB.  Now they need a QB.  This is nothing new.

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5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I'd disagree.  Mac has swung and missed twice and a lot of folks feel like missing twice is unforgivable and he's gotta' be fired.

Right, but he missed on tons of QB's and didn't win anything until he got one on his 8th or 9th try.

 

I think it more so had to do with drafting an undraftable product in the 2nd round and his other QB pick sucks too.  Like, they won't let them play over sh*tty journeyman vets type of bad.  That's a little worse than a swing and miss.  

Newsome never really tried to draft a QB before Boller. The highest pick he selected a QB was Chris Redman in the 3rd.  He always had a vet.  Boller was awful but at least he was allowed to play and actually QB'd a team to a winning record.  He had an 8 year career.  Derek Anderson had a winning probowl season and still in the league.  Tyrod Taylor is a starter and good.  Flacco has a Super Bowl.  Obviously a much longer resume to analyze though.

 

 

 

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