Time to bench Mo for the season

[jetgreen13]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

For those of you keeping score at home, Mo's stat line today:

Tackles- 1

Sacks- 0

haven't watched or heard anything about bowles' presser after today's game.. but if he was asked about the continued lack of production from wilkerson, i'm quite sure his response was something like, "we all need to play better..we all need to coach better.."

[AFJF]

8 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

haven't watched or heard anything about bowles' presser after today's game.. but if he was asked about the continued lack of production from wilkerson, i'm quite sure his response was something like, "we all need to play better..we all need to coach better.."

Didn’t hear any questions about Mo, but Bowles would have defended him as he’s done in the past.

Just bench the guy already.

[prime21]

I saw him clothesline an opponent today.  That's progress, he'll be in there next week. 

 

 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, prime21 said:

I saw him clothesline an opponent today.  That's progress, he'll be in there next week. 

 

 

Yeah, that was his tackle.

[jetgreen13]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Didn’t hear any questions about Mo, but Bowles would have defended him as he’s done in the past.

Just bench the guy already.

he won't..

[AFJF]

35 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

he won't..

Sadly, you’re right.

[shawn306]

All I know is something is not right when no one on the defensive line has a sack after 6 games. 

[Gen X Jet]

What a sh*tbag. The jets did him a favor after he broke his leg in Buffalo. 

[ScarletKnight89]

On 10/14/2017 at 1:14 PM, joewilly12 said:

No Kacy is not using Mo to his advantage or scheming the D to make Mo matter. 

I agree with this because the alternative is that Mo simply doesn't care and I would hate to believe that's true.

Something is wrong here. Williams isn't playing up to his talent either. But he's still been far better than Mo.

[j4jets]

21 hours ago, AFJF said:

I say it all the time. Woodys biggest mistake was not hiring one of the many GMs who were guaranteed to never make a mistake.  There are so many out there...why didn’t he get one of them?

Thanks, Woody.

Or just hire a below average GM to do a better job than Mac. You make it sound like Mac has set a high standard. 

[AFJF]

45 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Or just hire a below average GM to do a better job than Mac. You make it sound like Mac has set a high standard. 

I know, right.  No good players in this team.  We need Idzik back.

[Scott Dierking]

7 hours ago, AFJF said:

You are correct.  Despite what a few ill informed fans may believe, NFL teams are completely within their right to bench players who are not performing well.  Their salary or draft slot does not give them some inherent right to be in the lineup or to go to court if they are not.

Mo is playing poorly enough to be benched in a far less egregious way than RG III was with the Redskins.

 

 

Your original premise was to "sit Wilkerson because his contract stipulates that his salary is guaranteed if he lands on IR". THAT is what you said.

That would be not dealing in good faith on his contract. It would be pretty plain to see. And we could be sure the Jets would be found to be on the hook fpr that contract. That is simple labor law.

Of course the Jets could sit Wilkerson for non-performance. But that was not your original premise. You were looking to skirt payment based on a contract loophole that Wilkerson bargained for. That is a huge red flag.

It would also be a sign to future free agents that the Jets do not deal in good faith. Something that you do not particularly want leveraged against you in negotiations.

[BurnleyJet]

10 hours ago, Matt39 said:

This guy went full Haynesworth.

Albert Haynesworth just rang to say he's insulted you compaired him to Mo "the sloth" Wilkerson.

[TMAC]

On 10/14/2017 at 12:40 PM, joewilly12 said:

Hold  on guys hear me out.  How all of a sudden is Mo Wilk a JAG?  Kacy Rodgers is part to blame in all this he has single handily ruined Sheldon Richardson here and now Mo Wilk?  Something is wrong. 

Kacy Rodgers has to go. He has neutralized Williams as a pass rusher by playing him inside. He also has Darren Lee playing out of position.

[jack48]

On 10/14/2017 at 3:32 PM, Embrace the Suck said:

When was he not J.A.G.? He was a steady player that was maybe above average. He was never a force when it mattered. From what I remember, and I may be wrong, he would have great games against sh*t teams and performed disappearing acts against good teams. Also one thing I have noticed is that Jets fans almost always look at their guys without any context. We're used to sh*t play so anytime a guy isn't absolute dog sh*t we want to rush to Fitzpatrick them. 

He has been a low motor guy since Day One.  He just takes even more plays off now.

[nyjunc]

I can't remember ever being ore frustrated w/ a player than I am w/ Mo. I spend 90% of the game wondering if he's even in the game, if he didn't have the bright pink arm sleeve I wouldn't have noticed him all day.  it really sucks.

[MaxAF]

The Jets really had a shot yesterday. The key to beating the Pats is pressure on Brady early and often. That should have been the Defensive strategy. Whether is was or wasn't it wasn't there. Wilkerson was such a force when he was in the running to sign a big contract. Now that he has it, he's pretty much a non entity on the line. No push, no force, he doesn't even get double-teamed. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

11 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I agree with this because the alternative is that Mo simply doesn't care and I would hate to believe that's true.

Something is wrong here. Williams isn't playing up to his talent either. But he's still been far better than Mo.

laziness is contagious - even top performers are impacted by watching those who work to do nothing 

probably more of a reason to bench him - this behavior killed the team last year, and apparently still lingers - sad

[varjet]

11 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I agree with this because the alternative is that Mo simply doesn't care and I would hate to believe that's true.

Something is wrong here. Williams isn't playing up to his talent either. But he's still been far better than Mo.

When you draft 3 first round DL, they all look good.  They make each other look.  A true star can make an impact on his own. 

[chirorob]

In 2 years, he's made...   36 million?   This may go down as one of the worst contract extensions in Football history, it is historically bad.   He does nothing.    Literally, any 7th rounder could do the same job for 1% of the money.

I was glad when we resigned him, and I was massively wrong.

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

When you draft 3 first round DL, they all look good.  They make each other look.  A true star can make an impact on his own. 

I agree. But these two players have played like stars in the past. They have track records. Something is wrong.

[MDL_JET]

7 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I agree. But these two players have played like stars in the past. They have track records. Something is wrong.

Yeah Mo sucks and commands zero attention from opponents. All they have to do is stop Leo and they're good. 

 

[j4jets]

17 hours ago, AFJF said:

I know, right.  No good players in this team.  We need Idzik back.

When you start comparing a GM to Idzik, I think it's time to move on, no?

[Dcat]

On 10/14/2017 at 12:40 PM, joewilly12 said:

Hold  on guys hear me out.  How all of a sudden is Mo Wilk a JAG?  Kacy Rodgers is part to blame in all this he has single handily ruined Sheldon Richardson here and now Mo Wilk?  Something is wrong. 

 He is lazy out there even when he isn't beat up.  I watched him closely on many plays.  He freaking takes plays off and gives minimal effort at times.  It was a mistake giving him that contract.  @SenorGato couldn't have been any more wrong if he tried.  Don't even bench Mo.  Just cut his ass and pay him this years salary and be done with it.  Come on Mac... admit your mistake and move on.

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, j4jets said:

When you start comparing a GM to Idzik, I think it's time to move on, no?

I'm not comparing him to Idzik, I'm simply trying to help people to think back to what a bad GM really looks like.

John Idzik drafted 19 players...three or four of them might go on to have decent careers.

Mac has drafted three more players than Idzik with 22 and it looks like this year's class alone will produce more players than Idzik's 19 picks did.

I realize most fans use the benefit of hindsight to point out how super easy it is to draft nothing but pro bowlers in every round, but I don't subscribe to that.  I believe it is difficult to draft quality players and the numbers prove that to be true.  If a GM can grab a couple of starters and a back up or two every season, he's doing alright.

 

[AFJF]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 He is lazy out there even when he isn't beat up.  I watched him closely on many plays.  He freaking takes plays off and gives minimal effort at times.  It was a mistake giving him that contract.  @SenorGato couldn't have been any more wrong if he tried.  Don't even bench Mo.  Just cut his ass and pay him this years salary and be done with it.  Come on Mac... admit your mistake and move on.

Cutting Mo now would be a $27 million cap hit.  You let him play out the rest of the season at $18 mil and cut him when the hit is $3 mil, saving $6 million in cap space.

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Cutting Mo now would be a $27 million cap hit.  You let him play out the rest of the season at $18 mil and cut him when the hit is $3 mil, saving $6 million in cap space.

if he is cut after the 2017 season the dead cap is $9 million, not $3 million. (3 years of his amortized bonus 2018, 2019, 2020 @ $3 million per year).  It's money already paid, but it will escalate the moment he is cut.  Correct me if this is wrong.  http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/muhammad-wilkerson-7745/

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

if he is cut after the 2017 season the dead cap is $9 million, not $3 million. (3 years of his amortized bonus 2018, 2019, 2020 @ $3 million per year.  Correct me if this is wrong.  http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/muhammad-wilkerson-7745/

Looking at overthecap.com and from what beat writers have been saying, cutting Mo this off-season is $3 million in dead money with a $17 mil savings.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

[AFJF]

6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

if he is cut after the 2017 season the dead cap is $9 million, not $3 million. (3 years of his amortized bonus 2018, 2019, 2020 @ $3 million per year.  Correct me if this is wrong.  http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/muhammad-wilkerson-7745/

I think I see what you're looking at.  It's a $9 mil hit if he's cut pre-june 1st.  Post-june 1st it becomes the $3 mil/$17 mil I was talking about.

[Dcat]

10 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I think I see what you're looking at.  It's a $9 mil hit if he's cut pre-june 1st.  Post-june 1st it becomes the $3 mil/$17 mil I was talking about.

Yes... but the rest will still hit, just over two instead of one year.  Anyway you slice it, the contract Mac gave Mo was bad and not worth his lack of effort.

[AFJF]

Just now, Dcat said:

Yes... but the rest will still hit, just over two instead of one year.  Anyway you slice it, the contract Mac gave Mo was bad and not worth his lack of effort.

This is no longer even debatable.  He's a joke at this point.

[Gas2No99]

Is Muhammad Wilkerson on track to being cut by Jets after this season?

Six games down in the 2017 season, and Jets defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson still doesn't have a sack.

The Jets didn't have a sack, period, in Sunday's 24-17 loss to the Patriots. They had just four quarterback hits -- one by a defensive lineman, Leonard Williams, who also has zero sacks so far in 2017. No Jets defensive lineman has a sack yet this year. The Jets have just seven total. 

Yes, a defense (and a defensive lineman) can be productive without having lots of sacks. But at some point, the Jets will need Wilkerson and Williams to be more disruptive pass rushers. 

Let's set Williams aside, for this exercise, because he will be back with the Jets in 2018, his fourth NFL season. Wilkerson, on the other hand, is not a lock to return. The Jets could cut him next offseason and create a large chunk of salary cap space. 

The Jets gave him a lucrative contract last offseason, but he hasn't exactly put up monster numbers since then. He was limited by recovery from a broken leg last season. This year, he hasn't missed any games while playing through a sprained shoulder and toe injury. 

So while those are factors in Wilkerson's production being limited over the past season-plus, the Jets would ideally like to see Wilkerson produce more. 

He had just 4.5 sacks last year, after racking up 12 in 2015, his lone Pro Bowl year to date. He has just two sacks in his last 14 games, and three sacks in his last 20 games. 

Though this is Wilkerson's seventh NFL season, he turns 28 next Sunday, so he fits the Jets' forward-looking plan of stockpiling young talent. Still, the Jets will have a decision to make on Wilkerson after this season. 

In the summer of 2015, they signed him to a five-year contract with a maximum value of $86 million -- $36.75 million of which was guaranteed at signing. But Wilkerson's $16.75 million salary for next season doesn't become fully guaranteed until the third day of the league year, next March. 

If the Jets cut Wilkerson before that guarantee kicks in, they would create $11 million in cap space, though they'd have to eat $9 million in dead money next season. Wilkerson's cap hit if he remains with the Jets in 2018 would be $20 million. 

Or the Jets could designate Wilkerson as a post-June 1 cut. In this case, they would have to carry his $20 million cap number until June 1 -- which wouldn't help them create cap space for free agency. But a post-June 1 designation would free up $17 million in 2018 cap space for the Jets, because the $9 million in dead money would be spread equally over 2018-20. 

Remember, teams can carry over unused cap space from year to year, which is why the Jets should have about $85 million in cap space to use next offseason. Since they won't exactly be pressed for space entering free agency, freeing up $11 million in space by cutting Wilkerson before free agency isn't a must.

(A team can cut a player before June 1 and still designate him as a post-June 1 cut, for cap purposes. Teams are allowed to do this with two players per year.) 

 

 

Ultimately, $9 million is a lot of dead money for a team to carry with a single released player. And teams don't like giving up on a player after two years of a contract that cost the team $36.75 million up front. But the Jets need to determine after this season if they want to sink another $16.75 million into Wilkerson. 

If Wilkerson boosts his sack production significantly, he'll make it an easy decision for the Jets to retain him. If not, the Jets will face a difficult choice about a big-money player whom they ideally want to be part of their organization for years to come. 

[jetscrazey]

Cut him.  Use the money to sign a pass rusher.  You need pass rushers to win in the NFL.  Run stoppers can be found for cheaper.

[sciond]

http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/struggling-muhammad-wilkerson-slammed-hes-not-interested/

There is no bigger mystery surrounding the 2017 Jets than: What the heck is going on with Muhammad Wilkerson and Leonard Williams?

The two defensive linemen, who are considered the best players on the team, have had zero impact this season through six games. The two have combined for 0 sacks. These are two former Pro Bowlers who are now in witness protection.

On Sunday, Williams hit Tom Brady once. Wilkerson did not get near him. Brady had enough time to whip up a batch of avocado ice cream on some pass plays.

To help solve what is going on, we turned to Brian Baldinger, a former NFL offensive lineman who is now an analyst for the NFL Network and breaks down the film every week of every game and tweets out plays. This week, he showed a few plays that highlighted how poor the Jets defensive line is playing.

For a team that has been built on the back of the defensive line for much of the last decade, these Jets are unrecognizable.

“That’s not who the Jets are,” Baldinger said. “You can say anything you want about Rex Ryan, but his whole Sunday was about hitting the quarterback. … Tom Brady’s had some miserable

No quarterback has had to fear the Jets pass rush this season. They have seven sacks as a team, which ranks 31st in the league. Five sacks from linebackers, two from defensive backs. David Bass, who joined the team in Week 3, is leading the team with two sacks.

Wilkerson and Williams have been invisible in games. Pro Football Focus gives out a pass rush grade. Williams ranks 78th out of 110 interior defenders. Wilkerson ranks 94th.

Wilkerson does not have a quarterback hit this season. That means he has not laid a finger on a quarterback in six games. He has one hurry, as credited by the Jets’ coaches. He has nine solo tackles.

“Muhammad Wilkerson is not interested in playing,” Baldinger said.

This is a popular theory with Wilkerson. He received a five-year, $86 million contract before the 2016 season and has not looked like the same player everyone saw in 2015. Last year’s lack of production could be attributed to him recovering from a broken leg and the subsequent surgery.

Modal Trigger

Leonard WilliamsAP

This year? He has been bothered by an AC joint sprain in his left shoulder and suffered a toe injury, believed to be turf toe, last week. Those could be hindering him. He did not practice last week. But if he keeps playing, he has to start producing. Even last year, he had 4.5 sacks while not 100 percent.

“Here’s the biggest problem with Muhammad Wilkerson and having him on the field to rush the passer: He acts and plays as if every pass is going to be out on three steps, so he stops rushing,” Baldinger said. “There’s no bull rush, there’s no power, there’s no move. It’s just basically push the pocket a little bit, and sometimes he doesn’t even do that, and then get his hands up. That’s not playing defensive line in this league.”

Williams has not been much better. He has seven solo tackles, seven hurries and six hits of the quarterback.

“When he came out of USC and in his first two years, he was as good with his hands as any player coming into the league,” Baldinger said. “He’s not using his hands the way he knows how to right now.”

There may be an injury issue for Williams, too. He injured his left wrist in the third preseason game versus the Giants. The Jets downplayed the injury. Williams later said it was a bone bruise. He has been on the injury report all year.

“Leonard’s game is his hands,” Baldinger said. “He has great hands and he knows how to use them. That may very well be it. He may not have strength in that one hand right now as he’s accustomed to having it.”

There have been plenty of surprising things about this year’s Jets — many of them positive. But none has been more shocking than the defensive line disappearing act.

Waive the flag

days against the Jets. He could have darn well played that game in Bermuda shorts on Sunday.”

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, sciond said:

 

“Muhammad Wilkerson is not interested in playing,” Baldinger said.

 

Is that bad?