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Time to bench Mo for the season


AFJF

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I presume all of the above is true (taking Baldinger's word/analysis for it seems like a good bet) of course but I still think another major factor is that they miss Snacks one hell of a lot.

So OP, since Bowles is already rotating the DL I don't see how they can bench him (Mo) altogether.  It's not like his sub is lighting it up or anything.    

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damning observation from baldy...  not a surprise to what we have seen as fans this year and last.  how far our dline has fallen these last couple of years.  maybe snacks was even more crucial from a mental standpoint than he was for his physical ability...

 

I was confident that his year last year was more physical limits because of coming off the leg injury but there can be no such excuses made for him this year. sad to see one of our home grown talents pack it in.  Hopefully a switch goes off in his head and he can turn it around since it seems to be mental and not physical.  Bowles needs to push the right buttons to get this guy to come back to his team. They need him...

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Seems like Mo has now joined the "injured vet club" and has learned the find art of pacing himself from such stellar examples as Revis and B. Marshall. :( Mac's biggest blunder by far, signing Mo off a broken leg while letting Snacks walk for half the price.  (said it at the time too; geez do I hate being right on this one).  

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37 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I presume all of the above is true (taking Baldinger's word/analysis for it seems like a good bet) of course but I still think another major factor is that they miss Snacks one hell of a lot.

So OP, since Bowles is already rotating the DL I don't see how they can bench him (Mo) altogether.  It's not like his sub is lighting it up or anything.    

Doesn’t matter.  You can’t run the risk of getting stuck with this guy on the roster again next season for $17-18 million.

ANYONE would be better than Mo at this point.  He’s not even trying.

Deon Simon would be an upgrade and he’s not even a DE.

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11 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Seems like Mo has now joined the "injured vet club" and has learned the find art of pacing himself from such stellar examples as Revis and B. Marshall. :( Mac's biggest blunder by far, signing Mo off a broken leg while letting Snacks walk for half the price.  (said it at the time too; geez do I hate being right on this one).  

Damm Skippy lol... He should have been let go like the rest of them this off season. I would have rather signed Snacks as well. At least he gives a damm. Hindsight however is we never knew we were going to sign Ealy... I would take Ealy, Snacks, and Williams on the D line... but until we find some edge rushers we should be playing a 4-3, not a 3-4. 

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2 hours ago, sciond said:

http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/struggling-muhammad-wilkerson-slammed-hes-not-interested/

There is no bigger mystery surrounding the 2017 Jets than: What the heck is going on with Muhammad Wilkerson and Leonard Williams?

The two defensive linemen, who are considered the best players on the team, have had zero impact this season through six games. The two have combined for 0 sacks. These are two former Pro Bowlers who are now in witness protection.

On Sunday, Williams hit Tom Brady once. Wilkerson did not get near him. Brady had enough time to whip up a batch of avocado ice cream on some pass plays.

To help solve what is going on, we turned to Brian Baldinger, a former NFL offensive lineman who is now an analyst for the NFL Network and breaks down the film every week of every game and tweets out plays. This week, he showed a few plays that highlighted how poor the Jets defensive line is playing.

For a team that has been built on the back of the defensive line for much of the last decade, these Jets are unrecognizable.

“That’s not who the Jets are,” Baldinger said. “You can say anything you want about Rex Ryan, but his whole Sunday was about hitting the quarterback. … Tom Brady’s had some miserable

No quarterback has had to fear the Jets pass rush this season. They have seven sacks as a team, which ranks 31st in the league. Five sacks from linebackers, two from defensive backs. David Bass, who joined the team in Week 3, is leading the team with two sacks.

Wilkerson and Williams have been invisible in games. Pro Football Focus gives out a pass rush grade. Williams ranks 78th out of 110 interior defenders. Wilkerson ranks 94th.

Wilkerson does not have a quarterback hit this season. That means he has not laid a finger on a quarterback in six games. He has one hurry, as credited by the Jets’ coaches. He has nine solo tackles.

“Muhammad Wilkerson is not interested in playing,” Baldinger said.

This is a popular theory with Wilkerson. He received a five-year, $86 million contract before the 2016 season and has not looked like the same player everyone saw in 2015. Last year’s lack of production could be attributed to him recovering from a broken leg and the subsequent surgery

This year? He has been bothered by an AC joint sprain in his left shoulder and suffered a toe injury, believed to be turf toe, last week. Those could be hindering him. He did not practice last week. But if he keeps playing, he has to start producing. Even last year, he had 4.5 sacks while not 100 percent.

“Here’s the biggest problem with Muhammad Wilkerson and having him on the field to rush the passer: He acts and plays as if every pass is going to be out on three steps, so he stops rushing,” Baldinger said. “There’s no bull rush, there’s no power, there’s no move. It’s just basically push the pocket a little bit, and sometimes he doesn’t even do that, and then get his hands up. That’s not playing defensive line in this league.”

Williams has not been much better. He has seven solo tackles, seven hurries and six hits of the quarterback.

“When he came out of USC and in his first two years, he was as good with his hands as any player coming into the league,” Baldinger said. “He’s not using his hands the way he knows how to right now.”

There may be an injury issue for Williams, too. He injured his left wrist in the third preseason game versus the Giants. The Jets downplayed the injury. Williams later said it was a bone bruise. He has been on the injury report all year.

“Leonard’s game is his hands,” Baldinger said. “He has great hands and he knows how to use them. That may very well be it. He may not have strength in that one hand right now as he’s accustomed to having it.”

There have been plenty of surprising things about this year’s Jets — many of them positive. But none has been more shocking than the defensive line disappearing act.

Bowles needs to step up and do something. It's now being called out in the media and being made more and more clear of how little effort he's giving. Send a f'n message and bench him, do whatever it takes to hurt him in the pockets. How is it that everyone and their mother can see him not giving a crap and he continues to put him out there? I try to like Bowles and think he can be good but decisions like this just kill any hope I have.

 

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On 10/14/2017 at 1:25 PM, AFJF said:

You're right, but if that's what it takes, fine.  When Mac meets with Christopher Johnson, explain that they have a guy on the team who doesn't like playing football anymore and is in position to get over $30 million from the team if the continues to play him simply by saying something hurts.  Hopefully that would be enough to get him to make Bowles bench him.

Christopher Johnson would be reasonable in asking why Maccagnan gave a contract to a player who, since his college days, was known to be a dog. And I don't think that's a road that Maccagnan wants to go down...

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25 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Bowles needs to step up and do something. It's now being called out in the media and being made more and more clear of how little effort he's giving. Send a f'n message and bench him, do whatever it takes to hurt him in the pockets. How is it that everyone and their mother can see him not giving a crap and he continues to put him out there? I try to like Bowles and think he can be good but decisions like this just kill any hope I have.

 

Yeah and the media can’t blame Richardson and Brandon Marshall anymore for Wilkerson phoning in an entire season again

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1 hour ago, Jack Straw said:

Christopher Johnson would be reasonable in asking why Maccagnan gave a contract to a player who, since his college days, was known to be a dog. And I don't think that's a road that Maccagnan wants to go down...

It'd be a lot easier than explaining to the owner that they have to keep said player around for another year at $18 million next season after missing a golden opportunity to get out of a bad deal and minimize the damage to the cap.

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OK so I am beginning to hate this MoFo

A local kid who is an embarrassment and a poor role model.

I would take a person like ASJ who has rebounded in his life through effort versus a tool who got a big deal then mailed it in.

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Manish "tried to tell us without actually telling us" that what he saw from Mo behind the scenes last season was despicable.  Apparently, it has carried over to 2017.

They dumped all of the overpaid, underperforming vets from last year except Mo.  Time to finish the job.  Mo might even have affected Leo's drive by proxy.

Cut Mo's fat ass today..

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On 10/16/2017 at 8:33 PM, AFJF said:

Cutting Mo now would be a $27 million cap hit.  You let him play out the rest of the season at $18 mil and cut him when the hit is $3 mil, saving $6 million in cap space.

What makes the most sense - purely from a money-savings perspective - is to keep him out of action for a couple of weeks until he’s healthy, to prevent an injury-guarantee claim, and then cut him.

I don’t exactly have Mo’s contract in front of me, but there’s at least a decent chance that there’s offset language in there. So if he’s picked up at the vet minimum for the 2nd half of this season after clearing waivers, that’s at least about $500K in savings, which would get added to 2018. The rest of it’s guaranteed and paid by the Jets whether he’s here or not.

The biggest additional loss is in the form of pride.

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36 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What makes the most sense - purely from a money-savings perspective - is to keep him out of action for a couple of weeks until he’s healthy, to prevent an injury-guarantee claim, and then cut him.

I don’t exactly have Mo’s contract in front of me, but there’s at least a decent chance that there’s offset language in there. So if he’s picked up at the vet minimum for the 2nd half of this season after clearing waivers, that’s at least about $500K in savings, which would get added to 2018. The rest of it’s guaranteed and paid by the Jets whether he’s here or not.

The biggest additional loss is in the form of pride.

I think this makes alot of sense.

Turn on the Jets had a piece on players that the Jets should consider trading.  I think Bowles and Macc proved they can put a decent team together and beat meh teams.  

They should trade who they can, save money and get future draft picks, and start building for next year.

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Just now, varjet said:

I think this makes alot of sense.

Turn on the Jets had a piece on players that the Jets should consider trading.  I think Bowles and Macc proved they can put a decent team together and beat meh teams.  

They should trade who they can, save money and get future draft picks, and start building for next year.

The only way Mo has any trade value is if the Jets agree to eat all but the amortized veteran minimum amount. And even then I don’t know that we get any more than a very late rounder to rent him for half a season after the start he’s had.

Then again this league is nuts sometimes. Worth dangling him.

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25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The only way Mo has any trade value is if the Jets agree to eat all but the amortized veteran minimum amount. And even then I don’t know that we get any more than a very late rounder to rent him for half a season after the start he’s had.

Then again this league is nuts sometimes. Worth dangling him.

the Jets are already way under the salary floor. Cutting Mo means they have to spend even more money in years 2-4 to offset it.  The Fitz and Revis contracts were huge in 2016 to balance out the 2013 purge.  

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the Jets are already way under the salary floor. Cutting Mo means they have to spend even more money in years 2-4 to offset it.  The Fitz and Revis contracts were huge in 2016 to balance out the 2013 purge.  

There is no way that is a problem. I doubt they could trade him for anything even if they ate all of his contract.  maybe they in effect buy a draft pick by offering to cover the salary in exchange for a pick.

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22 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Manish "tried to tell us without actually telling us" that what he saw from Mo behind the scenes last season was despicable.  Apparently, it has carried over to 2017.

They dumped all of the overpaid, underperforming vets from last year except Mo.  Time to finish the job.  Mo might even have affected Leo's drive by proxy.

Cut Mo's fat ass today..

I wasn't aware that Mo was one of the locker room cancers last year.  If so then yes def sit him and then cut him or trade him for peanuts before the deadline.  Let's complete the purge!  Time for next man up.    

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38 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I wasn't aware that Mo was one of the locker room cancers last year.  If so then yes def sit him and then cut him or trade him for peanuts before the deadline.  Let's complete the purse!  Time for next man up.    

Him and Shel were benched for a small part of one game for turning up late to meetings, or skipping them entirely. And it wasn't just a one-off thing by all accounts.

I think the guy skipped a meeting where the other players had arranged a surprise birthday celebration for him too. Textbook entry in "how to win friends and influence people".

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15 hours ago, bitonti said:

the Jets are already way under the salary floor. Cutting Mo means they have to spend even more money in years 2-4 to offset it.  The Fitz and Revis contracts were huge in 2016 to balance out the 2013 purge.  

So? So they’re already way under.

One does not pay a grossly-underperforming player $17m non-guaranteed money because of the concern over having to pay that to someone else instead. Quite literally, that is the reason for doing it, not the reason to not do it.

Not to mention, being so far under the cap means we can make everyone feel good about having $6m more cap room in 2019 by removing the need to designate him a June 1 cut. Really it doesn’t matter, but people (including beat writers) obsess about the current year’s cap space like the league uses the hard cap it once did.

The awful Fitz - and especially the Revis - contracts are among the reasons we don’t have good veterans in the middle of a contract that was lower-priced to start in 2015 than it would be to start in 2018 just from cap/contract inflation alone. 

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On 10/18/2017 at 6:47 PM, RoadFan said:

Manish "tried to tell us without actually telling us" that what he saw from Mo behind the scenes last season was despicable.  Apparently, it has carried over to 2017.

They dumped all of the overpaid, underperforming vets from last year except Mo.  Time to finish the job.  Mo might even have affected Leo's drive by proxy.

Cut Mo's fat ass today..

But I thought it was Sheldumb’s fault?

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Banged-up Mo Wilkerson could sit out Sunday, perhaps longer

 

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Muhammad Wilkerson is banged up and not producing, and the New York Jets are mulling the idea of sitting him for a game, perhaps longer, to get healthier.

"It's a thought," coach Todd Bowles said Friday. "We discuss is day by day and week by week, and we'll go from there. We don't make anybody play that doesn't want to play. ... It's been good enough to play on Sunday thus far. We'll see this Sunday."

i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2017%2F1020%2Fr276855_1

Muhammad Wilkerson has no sacks and no tackles for loss in 2017. Bill Kostroun/Associated Press

Wilkerson is battling a grade 1 AC joint sprain in his shoulder and an undisclosed toe injury on his right foot. He missed practice for the second straight week and is listed as questionable for Sunday against the Miami Dolphins. It will be a game-time decision, according to Bowles.

It was the same situation last week -- no practice and a "questionable" designation -- but he wound up playing 53 of 68 defensive snaps in the loss to the New England Patriots.

Clearly, something isn't right with Wilkerson, who has no sacks, no tackles for loss and no quarterback hits. Bowles defended Wilkerson's play earlier in the week, but the fact he admitted they might rest him indicates the injuries are a concern.

"It's football," Bowles said. "You can ask anybody in the league: Everybody is battling something. Some can play with (injuries), some can't. If you can play, there's no excuse. If you can't, you get an excuse."

In other injury news, rookie tight end Jordan Leggett could be headed to injured reserve after a flare-up from his recent knee injury. Leggett, who was injured in the preseason and was inactive for five of the first six games, experienced swelling after Thursday's practice and was ruled out for Sunday. He will have an MRI exam.:angry:

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

Banged-up Mo Wilkerson could sit out Sunday, perhaps longer

 

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Muhammad Wilkerson is banged up and not producing, and the New York Jets are mulling the idea of sitting him for a game, perhaps longer, to get healthier.

"It's a thought," coach Todd Bowles said Friday. "We discuss is day by day and week by week, and we'll go from there. We don't make anybody play that doesn't want to play. ... It's been good enough to play on Sunday thus far. We'll see this Sunday."

i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2017%2F1020%2Fr276855_1

Muhammad Wilkerson has no sacks and no tackles for loss in 2017. Bill Kostroun/Associated Press

Wilkerson is battling a grade 1 AC joint sprain in his shoulder and an undisclosed toe injury on his right foot. He missed practice for the second straight week and is listed as questionable for Sunday against the Miami Dolphins. It will be a game-time decision, according to Bowles.

It was the same situation last week -- no practice and a "questionable" designation -- but he wound up playing 53 of 68 defensive snaps in the loss to the New England Patriots.

Clearly, something isn't right with Wilkerson, who has no sacks, no tackles for loss and no quarterback hits. Bowles defended Wilkerson's play earlier in the week, but the fact he admitted they might rest him indicates the injuries are a concern.

"It's football," Bowles said. "You can ask anybody in the league: Everybody is battling something. Some can play with (injuries), some can't. If you can play, there's no excuse. If you can't, you get an excuse."

In other injury news, rookie tight end Jordan Leggett could be headed to injured reserve after a flare-up from his recent knee injury. Leggett, who was injured in the preseason and was inactive for five of the first six games, experienced swelling after Thursday's practice and was ruled out for Sunday. He will have an MRI exam.:angry:

 

 

 

So the media reports that Mo has injury earlier in the year, and that he's taking pain shots before games to play. Then they start reporting that Mo is ineffective, no show of effort, but no mention of injuries. Then now they come back to report his injuries may have something to do with his play. Sports reporting is not reporting. They use the same tactics as tabloids and gossip reporters.

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On 10/19/2017 at 1:03 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

So? So they’re already way under.

One does not pay a grossly-underperforming player $17m non-guaranteed money because of the concern over having to pay that to someone else instead. Quite literally, that is the reason for doing it, not the reason to not do it.

Not to mention, being so far under the cap means we can make everyone feel good about having $6m more cap room in 2019 by removing the need to designate him a June 1 cut. Really it doesn’t matter, but people (including beat writers) obsess about the current year’s cap space like the league uses the hard cap it once did.

The awful Fitz - and especially the Revis - contracts are among the reasons we don’t have good veterans in the middle of a contract that was lower-priced to start in 2015 than it would be to start in 2018 just from cap/contract inflation alone. 

my point is money and cap space in and of itself are useless without someone to spend it on

the whole free agency season is about spending as little as possible not overspending to make up for the one year they were at 75% spend.  

there's a better chance Mo gets over his injuries and returns to form then there is the Jets using that extra space in a useful way 

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On 10/14/2017 at 12:21 PM, AFJF said:

Much like the Redskins did with RG III a couple seasons ago to avoid a huge salary obligation if he was injured, any season-ending injury to Mo will mean the Jets are on the hook for his $16.7 million next season.  Anyone doubt for one second that he'll fake an injury over the next week or two?

Per Brian Costello:

Here is one thing to watch: Wilkerson’s $16.75 million salary in 2018 is guaranteed for injury. That means if Wilkerson suffers a serious, season-ending injury this year, the Jets will be on the hook for him and he won’t be going anywhere. It is something to watch as Wilkerson is already dealing with shoulder and toe injuries. Neither of them appear to be overly serious right now, but Jets coach Todd Bowles did not rule out surgery on the toe when asked about it this week.

can we get Damon Harrison back  ?   :unsure: 

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6 hours ago, bitonti said:

my point is money and cap space in and of itself are useless without someone to spend it on

the whole free agency season is about spending as little as possible not overspending to make up for the one year they were at 75% spend.  

there's a better chance Mo gets over his injuries and returns to form then there is the Jets using that extra space in a useful way 

They have people to spend it on unless they run out of money to spend.

Mo will never, ever be worth $17m/year. He wasn’t worth it when they extended him, he wasn’t worth it the year before they extended him, and he won’t ever be worth that in the future. Not unless they make each team’s salary cap $800m/year.

The cap space you save can be used at a later time if you can’t find one FA to sink it into in early March. Blowing one’s load on bringing back a player who isn’t worth 1/4 of what he’s getting, just because you can’t right now think of a way to immediately spend all of it on another player, is never prudent planning.

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